Term time holiday dad loses court battle...

[ChrisG]

Whilst they're cracking down on this they also need to modernize the curriculum.

Quite why they teach Pythagoras or Trig to all math sets is just beyond me, because most people won't be using them once they're done with education.
There's other things as well, but that's just an example.

Admittedly I have made the mistake of telling my son it's pointless learning these and he told his teacher the same , oops.
Apparently the teacher asked how I pack things in boxes and my son simply said if it doesn't fit, get a different box.

I can assure you Pythagoras & trig come in very handy in the Construction industry. It's rather difficult to measure a pitched roof without it.

[Firthy]

Easy answer to all this. Cancel school summer holidays and make them take the 6 week break in Jan/Feb and then everyone can have cheap holidays

[Firthy]

I can assure you Pythagoras & trig come in very handy in the Construction industry.

Are those two anything to do with Del Boy, they sound like right cowboys to me

[Foulthrow]

There are much bigger problems with education than kids missing school for holidays. Perhaps sort some of the other crap out first.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I can assure you Pythagoras & trig come in very handy in the Construction industry. It's rather difficult to measure a pitched roof without it.

That's fine, but how often do you use it to when you're throwing some stuff into a box?

[ClaretDiver]

That's fine, but how often do you use it to when you're throwing some stuff into a box?

But maybe some kids have higher aspirations than you.......

[starting_11]

Easy answer to all this. Cancel school summer holidays and make them take the 6 week break in Jan/Feb and then everyone can have cheap holidays

Being serious, I would like all the single week half terms to be made 2 week at the expense of some of the summer. That would make it much easier to go on holiday in February, May, October.

Six weeks (usually more like 7) is far too long.

[Harrythomsonscap]

After leaving Rosegrove Academy for Genteel boys at the tender age of 14yrs & 10months, I embarked on a career as an apprentice bricklayer/Stonemason. I am now retired having run my own building business. I will have used pi and trig almost every day of my working life. Always thought at school what a waste of time. How wrong was I! PS my family took me on holiday in term time due to the businesses they ran. Never did me any harm in fact the school teachers encouraged it. They they said it broadened my out look on life

[Firthy]

Being serious, I would like all the single week half terms to be made 2 week at the expense of some of the summer. That would make it much easier to go on holiday in February, May, October.

Six weeks (usually more like 7) is far too long.

I suggested it tongue in cheek, but you have a very good idea there. 2 weeks in February and October and only 4 weeks in the summer is a very sensible solution. Take the kids away to the sun when the weather is crap and let them enjoy the short summer we have.

[houseboy]

I am a parent thanks and stick to the rules. Yes holidays cost me more which isn't great, and the kids probably don't need to be in school for every hour. If everyone picks what rules to follow the country would be in serious problems

Some rules are made to be broken and the school holiday thing is one of them.

[houseboy]

So this thread seems to support a situation where a class of perhaps 30 pupils could have a substantial decrease in weekly attendance.

Perhaps three one week, then six the next, let's go for ten the following week, followed by a week or two of school holidays.

Throw in a chickenpox outbreak and a few other horrible illnesses that kids seem to attract, then off course an odd broken bone, death in the family and other such occurrences.

Are you really trying to say that this wouldn't substantially disrupt the teaching of children?

Yes.

[houseboy]

It's selfish to expect that children should be allowed to take holidays from school at the detriment to the teacher's ability to teach other children. It's also selfish to expect that each child's circumstances should be reviewed individually whenever requested.

No it isn't. What is wrong is teachers and the establishment in general thinking they know better than parents about what is good for kids. Many teachers don't even have kids so therefore have no idea whatsoever of raising them.

PS: my middle daughter is a teacher and a mum of two and she agrees with me.

[starting_11]

It's more to do with the pettiness of the teachers and unions more than "common sense"

"I can't so they won't" is usually the public sector motto.

[Inchy]

Just lie to the school it’s easy. Just say a relative has died and he lives in Benidorm. Tell the kid the same. Go to Benidorm, look in the local rag for recent deaths and rock up at a random funeral. Kid will go back to school saying he’s been to a funeral. Takes one afternoon out of your 2 weeks in the sun

Easy

[nil_desperandum]

Just lie to the school it’s easy. Just say a relative has died and he lives in Benidorm. Tell the kid the same. Go to Benidorm, look in the local rag for recent deaths and rock up at a random funeral. Kid will go back to school saying he’s been to a funeral. Takes one afternoon out of your 2 weeks in the sun

Easy

Except it's rare that schools sanction time off to attend a funeral even if it only involves a single day off.
It's particularly harsh on teachers at times, who can be experiencing significant emotional distress due to the loss of a close friend or relative, but it's rare that you are allowed out even to a local funeral unless it's a parent, sibling or your own child.

[houseboy]

Surely you're not saying that taking days off school doesn't affect a child's education for the worse? How can it possibly not? The less education they're receiving, the less educated they are. It's pretty simple really.

As for whether children gain more from taking holidays than a school education, I'd imagine that would vary greatly based on a number of factors.

Children gain most from a happy childhood and that is more often than not helped by fond memories of holidays. The emphasis placed on education these days is out of all proportion to the reality. Children whose education is effected badly from a few days off every year should probably be in special needs. It is easy to catch up on anything important. Remember how many individual subjects are taught and add them up in a week. Kids are not going to suffer badly from missing two or three maths lessons or any other subject and the bits of those lessons that are important can be easily caught up. Then factor in the pointless lessons for many: religious education that also teaches about 'other' religions, physical education for those with zero interest, history (I subject I loved but many hate it and will never use it), etc. The only subjects that are extremely important are the basic reading, writing and maths. These three core subjects do not take up that much of an academic week at school.
As I have said before the only and I mean only reason for the introduction of these fines is for keeping up school stats, it has zero to do with a child's welfare or education.
Thank goodness my kids are grown up with kids of their own (well two out of three) or I would have been at constant war with their school. I support EVERYONE who defies and fights this ridiculous ruling even though it now affects me not at all.

[Inchy]

Except it's rare that schools sanction time off to attend a funeral even if it only involves a single day off.
It's particularly harsh on teachers at times, who can be experiencing significant emotional distress due to the loss of a close friend or relative, but it's rare that you are allowed out even to a local funeral unless it's a parent, sibling or your own child.

Ok tell the school the kid has Stella Artoisitis which can only be cured at Benidorm general infirmary

Tell the kid it’s serious but don’t worry Benidorm will sort it. When you get to the dorm nip to the local hospital, bribe one of the poorly paid nurses to inject saline into the kid so they believe they have had treatment, spend 2 weeks recovering by destroying your liver.



P.s. as a healthcare professional I must point out that I do not seriously recommend the above

[houseboy]

What actually make an issue out of this particular circus are the Ofsted attendance targets.

Drop those, or adjust their criteria, and the whole silly issue will vanish......it's got the square root of bugger-all to do with academic achievement.

At last: nail - head - hit! What I've been saying all along. Well said sir.

[houseboy]

Except it's rare that schools sanction time off to attend a funeral even if it only involves a single day off.
It's particularly harsh on teachers at times, who can be experiencing significant emotional distress due to the loss of a close friend or relative, but it's rare that you are allowed out even to a local funeral unless it's a parent, sibling or your own child.

Don't know if I'm reading this correctly so forgive me if I've got this wrong but if you are talking about TEACHERS needing time off for funerals the rule is the same for everyone in employment, not just teachers. Basically it is at the employers discretion but the law says that you are only ENTITLED to time off for a direct relative (parent or sibling) but not friends or aunties and uncles.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

But maybe some kids have higher aspirations than you.......

I'm sure they do, but it can be taught on relevant courses can't it?

[nil_desperandum]

Don't know if I'm reading this correctly so forgive me if I've got this wrong but if you are talking about TEACHERS needing time off for funerals the rule is the same for everyone in employment, not just teachers. Basically it is at the employers discretion but the law says that you are only ENTITLED to time off for a direct relative (parent or sibling) but not friends or aunties and uncles.

I was actually replying in response to the suggestion that a funeral could be used by parents as an excuse for taking a child away on holiday.
What you say is correct, but in my recent experience, schools have rarely exercised any discretion in this matter, even when a member of staff has come to an agreement with a colleague to cover their duties, and even though they have requested the couple of hours off without pay.
I accept - of course - that other employees have a similar problem, but I have no idea to what employers are prepared to use their discretion and be flexible in the matter.
(I also accept that there will be some governing bodies and Heads who will use some commonsense and discretion in the matter)

[Shore claret]

Some rules are made to be broken and the school holiday thing is one of them.

Any other rules that you think are ok to break?

[levraiclaret]

If the half term holidays were staggered over say 6 weeks them the demand spike would be spread and problem would be greatly reduced.

The resort to court action does not show much empathy for parents working in the private sector.

[houseboy]

I was actually replying in response to the suggestion that a funeral could be used by parents as an excuse for taking a child away on holiday.
What you say is correct, but in my recent experience, schools have rarely exercised any discretion in this matter, even when a member of staff has come to an agreement with a colleague to cover their duties, and even though they have requested the couple of hours off without pay.
I accept - of course - that other employees have a similar problem, but I have no idea to what employers are prepared to use their discretion and be flexible in the matter.
(I also accept that there will be some governing bodies and Heads who will use some commonsense and discretion in the matter)

I have found in the past that employers tend to be pretty sympathetic with regard to funerals but one guy I managed years ago eventually lost sympathy because we discovered the same uncle had died 3 times. The chap concerned was extremely good at his job but unfortunately had a terrible drink problem.

[houseboy]

Any other rules that you think are ok to break?

Yeah, absolutely anything to do with political correctness and speed limits on perfect roads in perfect conditions with virtually no traffic. Oh and anything that curbs individual freedoms and freedom of speech. And any law that prevents someone from doing something that causes no harm to others apart from themselves (such as drug use). I could go on. I don't know if it is still the case but at one time we had more laws in this country than the old Soviet Union, which was supposed to be an oppressive state. These laws come into being because when one thing happens that is bad someone somewhere will shout 'there should be a law against it' and you can bet before long there will be.
Anything else?