More trouble in london

[Imploding Turtle]

Terrorism isn't the biggest story of the day.

[claretandy]

And another one ....

https://t.co/2hYc0Hcvpr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Imploding Turtle]

And another one ....

https://t.co/2hYc0Hcvpr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Police said there was no suggestion 'at this stage' the reserve centre, in Birmingham Road, was under threat."

Such a scary terrorist attack.

[Colburn_Claret]

I have a life too, but that involves in people in my social circle sharing the posts about this, both in disgust at it and also some in support of it. Ignoring him and his type will not make the problem go away, but merely leave you ill-informed about what he is doing and saying. Perhaps I was being a little unkind to you by picking up on your description of a terrorists MO, I am merely highlighting that your description can apply to many diverse groups across the political spectrum.


I would tend to agree with this, by it's very nature to terrorise someone you need to make them worry about it in the first place. To remove their power would be to have a media blackout on all issues such as this, but that would not be possible at all in reality due to many different reasons.


IMO his actions, by attacking a specific section of a community, make his actions terrorist in nature so he may well fit the description of a terrorist. I do concur though that he is definitely an arsehole.

Whilst I understand some of what you say, if targeting a specific group is terrorism, then Millwall fans battling Spurs fans are terrorists not thugs.
I don't like this description of terrorism, it somehow gives a legitimacy to the violence that it doesn't deserve. If they get caught they'll claim to be heroes, which they are very far from. I would much rather they were criminalised and treated as such.
The zealots who purport to be representing Allah, are blinkered into believing a doctrine that most normal Muslims reject, but it is pushed by some Clerics as being Allahs will.
Who is pushing Tommy Robinsons boat. Who told him that he has to go out there and commit atrocities on our behalf. If that is what is happening. He certainly never asked me or you. I still maintain whoever did this is a thug, but not a terrorist.

[Claretmatt4]

It's for political gains that sets it apart from hooliganism in your example.

[bluelabrador16]

Music time:

‘You filled cemeteries with our children’: Anti-terrorist Ramadan video goes viral on YouTube

https://www.rt.com/news/390059-anti-jih ... dan-video/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U49nOBFv508" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Colburn_Claret]

I'd like to remind you of what you said with regards to people like Anjem Choudrey standing on street corners and hurling abuse at the relatives of the dead.




So when Muslim extremists are loundly abhorrant it's incitement and a crime for which they should be punished, but then it's a white, British guy doing it you're all oh just ignore him and he'll go away.

Your misrepresenting me.
I haven't a clue what he says, as I don't read his bilge. What I clearly meant to say was that the "public' should ignore it, as I also added that the authorities have enough people to deal with him. If they see his bilge as a threat, then they should deal with him exactly the same as anyone else whipping up violence and jail him.

[nil_desperandum]

Whilst I understand some of what you say, if targeting a specific group is terrorism, then Millwall fans battling Spurs fans are terrorists not thugs.
.

You'll have to explain that one. What is the political motivation behind football fans fighting each other?

Terrorism: "The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

[Colburn_Claret]

I don't think the person who carried out this attack has or had any political aim, just a knee jerk reaction , from a neanderthal, to what happened in Manchester and on London Bridge.
Until the person they arrested claims to be acting on behalf of some political group, he is just a thug. Not a very bright one either.

[TheFamilyCat]

We are talking about 3rd generation born here.

No you're not. You quoted Norman Tebitt "born and bred", no mention of how many generations.

i think you may by trying to move the goalposts to avoid answering.

Don't be shy, it's a hypothetical question; you can give the answer that doesn't make you look like a hypocrite if you want. We'll all believe you; I can just see little Andy Jr (Andreas, presumably) sat there in his Spanish shirt and sombrero, tucking into a plate of paella giving it a few "OLES" while you playfully get him in a headlock, ruffle his hair and call him a lucky little Spic when they're beating us 3-0.

[dsr]

Ah, so dsr's the faceless moderator

No, it's just that as I'm not doing any of the work, or paying any of the costs, I don't claim influence over any of the rules.

[aggi]

A little dry but this is the definition of Terrorism from the Terrorism Act (Someone's already beaten me to it with the Family Guy clip which was the first thing that came to mind.)

(1) In this Act "terrorism" means the use or threat of action where-
(a) the action falls within subsection (2),
(b) the use or threat is designed to influence the government [or an international governmental organisation][2] or to intimidate the public or a section of the public, and
(c) the use or threat is made for the purpose of advancing a political, religious[, racial][3] or ideological cause.
(2) Action falls within this subsection if it-
(a) involves serious violence against a person,
(b) involves serious damage to property,
(c) endangers a person's life, other than that of the person committing the action,
(d) creates a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public, or
(e) is designed seriously to interfere with or seriously to disrupt an electronic system.
(3) The use or threat of action falling within subsection (2) which involves the use of firearms or explosives is terrorism whether or not subsection (1)(b) is satisfied.

I'd say it meets the criteria.

[claretandy]

No you're not. You quoted Norman Tebitt "born and bred", no mention of how many generations.

i think you may by trying to move the goalposts to avoid answering.

Don't be shy, it's a hypothetical question; you can give the answer that doesn't make you look like a hypocrite if you want. We'll all believe you; I can just see little Andy Jr (Andreas, presumably) sat there in his Spanish shirt and sombrero, tucking into a plate of paella giving it a few "OLES" while you playfully get him in a headlock, ruffle his hair and call him a lucky little Spic when they're beating us 3-0.

The teenagers of today are by definition 3rd generation if their granparents came in the 60s.

[willsclarets]

I don't know about political gains, but it'd be political suicide not to call this a terrorist attack and give it equal footing.

[TheFamilyCat]

The teenagers of today are by definition 3rd generation if their granparents came in the 60s.

Where was this about teenagers? There go the goalposts again.

I hope you actually answer my question next time you reply.

[claretandy]

Nothing in that article suggests it's a terror attack.

Guns and a gas canister in the car, was known to security services, but no its not a terror attack.

[CombatClaret]

Imagine some creep doing that to your daughters and being bothered where he's from? If he was a local paedo would that at be alright?

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/s ... -is-false/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Author of the post "“I’m not entirely certain it’s accurate. It was nothing to do with abductions. I was asked to post it. Simply put it up there as a warning. Maybe it went a bit too far. Some posts were hateful and that was not the intention.
He added: “I’m gutted it was taken that way. Looking back, I could’ve worded it better.”

Also this thread isn't about 'paedos' but about recent events in London, there are bad people out there of all colour and race so why post it without research unless to smear a race/nationality/culture/religion?
If it was a 'local peado' ClaretAndy would not have bothered posting it here in a totally unrelated topic with the hash tag #refugeeswelcome.

[claretandy]

Diane abbott being consistent as usual.

[TheFamilyCat]

"After speaking with the Scottish Sun, Mr Duff said he “honestly doesn’t know what to believe anymore.”"



What a grade A bellend. A what a bellend anyone who shared it must be!

[CombatClaret]

Diane abbott being consistent as usual.

In another deleted thread which I'm seemingly not allowed to mention many people defended the term 'incident' being used and defined it as anything which has a coordinated emergency services response.

So it can be both a terrorist attack (or a fire) and an incident at the same time.

[Claretmatt4]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/s ... -is-false/

Author of the post "“I’m not entirely certain it’s accurate. It was nothing to do with abductions. I was asked to post it. Simply put it up there as a warning. Maybe it went a bit too far. Some posts were hateful and that was not the intention.
He added: “I’m gutted it was taken that way. Looking back, I could’ve worded it better.”

Also this thread isn't about 'paedos' but about recent events in London, there are bad people out there of all colour and race so why post it without research unless to smear a race/nationality/culture/religion?
If it was a 'local peado' ClaretAndy would not have bothered posting it here in a totally unrelated topic with the hash tag #refugeeswelcome.

Thanks for quoting my post which has since been deleted.

What the **** is wrong with what I posted, a level headed and emotionless question. Considering some of the shite that has been left on this thread.

Absolutely speechless.

[TheFamilyCat]

Diane abbott being consistent as usual.

Do you have any thoughts of your own?

How about answering the Spanish son dilemma?

[ClaretTony]

I'm sorry if I've deleted some posts that you consider shouldn't have been deleted but the fact is we are receiving numerous complaints about posts from other posters which are being removed.

Once again I'm being placed in a difficult position.

[willsclarets]

A complaint or even several hundred of them don't merit a delete, only if they break the rules should they disappear.
Inconsistency seems to be the problem. I appreciate it's a tough job, but if there are guidelines as to why posts are deleted they should be followed through despite the number of complaints or otherwise. While the mods delete, perhaps write a short note to say why which should reference such guidelines.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

If you emigrated to Spain and had a son, who would want him to support when England play Spain at football?

I emigrated to Spain and had a son and he supports France because his favourite player is Antoine Griezmann

[Bin Ont Turf]

I'm sorry if I've deleted some posts that you consider shouldn't have been deleted but the fact is we are receiving numerous complaints about posts from other posters which are being removed.

Once again I'm being placed in a difficult position.

So what's the crack when removing posts or threads?

I mean does it just take a complaint(s) and that's enough for you to remove it without really reading the post?

Or do you read the posts after a complaint and only act on it how you personally think the post comes across?

If posts are getting removed just because we have a few professional whiners on here and their complaint(s) are the be all and end all, then that's a bit grim.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Why do the snowflakes have to ruin everything.

[claretandy]

Do you have any thoughts of your own?

How about answering the Spanish son dilemma?

not the same as 3rd generation so pointless.

[Claretmatt4]

I believe my post said:

"none of that was mentioned in the link you posted"

Well colour me snowflake.

[Lancasterclaret]

Going to be great for you lot that the moderators are removing posts about community cohesion.

[ClaretTony]

Going to be great for you lot that the moderators are removing posts about community cohesion.

Sorry?

[ElectroClaret]

Once again I'm being placed in a difficult position.

Tony, as other people have suggested, just set up a separate politics/other topics section,
together with some sort of warning about the content therein.

Then the people for whom such stuff floats their boat can slag each other
off to their hearts content.

Let's face it, you can't go on like this. As you say, it's getting more frequent.

[Tall Paul]

I'm sorry if I've deleted some posts that you consider shouldn't have been deleted but the fact is we are receiving numerous complaints about posts from other posters which are being removed.

Once again I'm being placed in a difficult position.

You're only in a difficult position because you've put yourself there by deleting posts without explanation.

The solution is simple - activate the board's private message function and, when you need to delete a post, send a private message to the poster with a short explanation.

[Greenmile]

No
Why would any reasonable person want to.

I've never heard of Tommy Robinson, or Britain's First. I have a life.
I suspect that far more people read this shite in order to wind themselves up with indignation, than do to agree with it.
He wants an audience, if you want him to go away then ignore him. The authorities have enough staff to monitor anyone considered a threat.

As I said, if you blow it up to more than it is, then the danger is you create exactly what you ate worried about.

Not a terrorist an arsehole

That's wasps (also, they are more scared of you than you are of them).

If we ignore hate-filled racist rhetoric and allow it to flourish, it will create more ****s like the guy this morning.

Do you have the same "ignore them and they'll go away" opinion about Islamic hate preachers? If not,why not?

[evensteadiereddie]

With this kind of stuff

Diane abbott being consistent as usual.

and

Why do the snowflakes have to ruin everything.

I think the race to the bottom is well and truly over. Why don't these berks have the nuts to give us their honest thoughts about how they see last night's attack as being relatively unimportant not because of the cowardice, the cruelty and the horror involved but because of the who the victims were.
These political threads are becoming more and more unpleasant, inevitable and sinister and will become even more so as some of the more particularly right-wing views' holders are faced down and challenged more regularly.

As the poster suggested above, CT, it's probably time to create a page or a link or whatever specifically for, for example, non-football topics, the site is being spoiled.

[Pimlico_Claret]

My last post before I go to work.

I used to be on a safer neighbourhood team in Morden, which some of you will know is at the end of the Northern Line.

I was assigned to a particular ward, and would be responsible for answering calls in that ward, as well as tackling ward priorities set by a local committee of residents. Also, if a sister team wasn't on duty, and a call came in to their ward, we would also cover that. And vice versa.

By and large, anything and everything would get dealt with, and in a timely fashion too. We would also help out the response teams if we could. We also introduced an initiative called 'street a week', and visited every resident in a particular street to talk to them about any concerns they had. If it was no reply at a property, we would put a leaflet through, introducing ourselves, letting them know where we were and how they could get hold us. If the residents were in, we could spend anything up to 10-15 minutes there, gleaning lots of information, and building trust.

To achieve this, there was a sergeant, and half a dozen PC's and PCSO's. It worked well, and results were tangible. We knew the problem addresses, the nuisance kids, we tackled brothels, and got them closed.

Inexplicably, and I can only imagine because of cuts, we have moved away from this in the Met. I have moved to a different part of London now, but I imagine it's the same where I was.

Gone are the six PC's/PCSO's and one sergeant. Now it is a mere one PC per ward. Calls aren't answered. All too often I hear 'Met CCC' call up for a particular ward, and there's silence. There isn't even anyone to answer on their behalf. There's a massive ASB problem where I am, and the best I/we can do is scare them off with our blue lights on the way to a call. We don't deal with local issues probably, but at best 'move it on'.

It makes me angry just thinking about the changes that have been enforced. The only thing I would ask of you all is if you do need Police, and for whatever reason they take a while to come, complain to your local MP, not us. I'm embarrassed that it takes us so long to come sometimes, and it's not much of a public service if you're not there when needed.

Thanks for your very honest account of the real situation facing the police nowadays. It's the same up here in Lancashire, frighteningly few officers on duty at any one time, Steve Finnigan spoke about the cuts now making the job virtually impossible only last week.
Still, never mind, Rowls and his merry band of Theresa May cheerleaders will be along soon to tell you that you don't know what you are talking about.

[willsclarets]

Political realities really are lost on some people. If this wasn't labelled a terrorist attack, what message would that send? If you were asked, as a government official, what this was in light of recent events..what would you say? Don't lie to yourself, regardless of what is technically a terrorist attack, there's nothing else this could be called.

[ClaretMoffitt]

The site is being spoilt?

How delicate and emotionally fragile do you have to be to start crying over peoples opinions on a messageboard? If you don't like it, call it out, call them anything you want, or simply ignore it and scroll on. How do you make it through life if you are this fragile?

A sub forum is a good idea though in fairness.

[Imploding Turtle]

Diane abbott being consistent as usual.

11 hours after Abbott's tweet even the Greater Manchester Police were referring to it as an "incident" on twitter. Not that facts will matter to you.

[Damo]

It's amusing how the left leaning folk amongst us assume everyone is against them.
Can we get a conspiracy theory going that Rupert Murdoch owns uptheclarets?

[evensteadiereddie]

Don't be more of a moron than usual, Muff. You know damn well that I can give or take stick as much as the next poster on here. You know equally well that I'm referring to some of the more extreme and blatantly racist posters on here, posters who - due to a disappointing election result (for them) - seem to have become a little more reckless in their commentary of late.
Fragile ? Don't be a dick.
If folk want to weigh up the value of a human life on the basis of its colour, religion or financial strength, good luck to 'em, ,let them post their stuff to their hearts' content but, please, on a separate area. Got it ? Good lad, I knew you'd get it in the end.

[evensteadiereddie]

Explain your thinking, damo, it's usually you and your mates that sneer and snark at others, you all seemed particularly busy before the exit poll.
You must try and get out of the habit of assuming we're all as frightened, jealous and as bewildered as you are

[ClaretMoffitt]

Don't be more of a moron than usual, Muff. You know damn well that I can give or take stick as much as the next poster on here. You know equally well that I'm referring to some of the more extreme and blatantly racist posters on here, posters who - due to a disappointing election result (for them) - seem to have become a little more reckless in their commentary of late.
Fragile ? Don't be a dick.
If folk want to weigh up the value of a human life on the basis of its colour, religion or financial strength, good luck to 'em, ,let them post their stuff to their hearts' content but, please, on a separate area. Got it ? Good lad, I knew you'd get it in the end.

Nobody on here does that, absolutely nobody.

[TheFamilyCat]

not the same as 3rd generation so pointless.

There you go again with your generations. You posted a quote from Norman Tebitt about people of Pakistani descent "born and bred" in England. I presume you were trying to make a point*, or maybe you had just read the quote and repeated it without understanding it.

I asked a hypothetical question based on a similar scenario - if you had a son "born and bred" in Spain.

Why do you keep swerving the question and talking about generations?


*If it helps, I think the point you were trying to make was that if someone is born in England, they are English and should support England.

[evensteadiereddie]

CM, Your naivety is both touching yet troubling.

[Damo]

Explain your thinking, damo, it's usually you and your mates that sneer and snark at others, you all seemed particularly busy before the exit poll.
You must try and get out of the habit of assuming we're all as frightened, jealous and as bewildered as you are

Well that was a bit of an outburst wasn't it?
Your clearly angry so I will refrain from engaging with you again until you have calmed down

[ClaretMoffitt]

Well that was a bit of an outburst wasn't it?
Your clearly angry so I will refrain from engaging with you again until you have calmed down

He seemed a bit mad at me too earlier, but that's okay, I don't mind mad; mad is good, mad is authentic and genuine. A person is never more honest than when they are angry.

[Colburn_Claret]

That's wasps (also, they are more scared of you than you are of them).

If we ignore hate-filled racist rhetoric and allow it to flourish, it will create more ****s like the guy this morning.

Do you have the same "ignore them and they'll go away" opinion about Islamic hate preachers? If not,why not?

If I see someone abusing a Muslim in the street, I hope I would have the gonads to tell him what an arsehole he is. Anyone should.
The same way I would give a gobful to any Muslims spouting on about Sharia Law.

That doesn't mean I should trawl the internet looking for arseholes.
How is it so many people who disagree with this guy, go onto his site and read the crap he spouts. There is a big difference between ignoring what someone says on social media, and what someone is saying on your street corner.
They are different, ones a trouble maker, the other is just an attention seeker. When the second turns into the first is the time to feel their collars. Until then some of the blame should lie with the people who seek out this crap.

[evensteadiereddie]

What an abysmal response, damo, is that really all you could come up with ? I f you look carefully, you'll see no "outburst" just a straightforward assessment of your - and others - lazy, cowardly and rather dim manner of commenting.
You carry on refraining from engaging again until you can put forward some kind of argument to counter my view. You seem out of your depth again.
It might take you a while but, luckily, I'm watching "Fearless" so you've bags of time.

[Greenmile]

If I see someone abusing a Muslim in the street, I hope I would have the gonads to tell him what an arsehole he is. Anyone should.
The same way I would give a gobful to any Muslims spouting on about Sharia Law.

That doesn't mean I should trawl the internet looking for arseholes.
How is it so many people who disagree with this guy, go onto his site and read the crap he spouts. There is a big difference between ignoring what someone says on social media, and what someone is saying on your street corner.
They are different, ones a trouble maker, the other is just an attention seeker. When the second turns into the first is the time to feel their collars. Until then some of the blame should lie with the people who seek out this crap.

Do you think all Islamic hate preachers stand on boxes at Speaker's Corner? Should we ignore the ones who quietly radicalise others in their home or mosque?

Edit - I think you have your trouble makers and attention seekers mixed up (and both terms are a little mild for the type of people we are discussing)