Mike Garlick's interview in May

[UpTheBeehole]

I'm assuming you have only just become a Claret then, if this is your view of low standards at Burnley?

I'm old enough to remember the 90s, when the board's refusal to back its managers lead to relegation, fan protests and those successful managers being forced to leave.

[Sidney1st]

I'm old enough to remember the 90s, when the board's refusal to back its managers lead to relegation, fan protests and those successful managers being forced to leave.

Have the board refused to back Dyche this summer?

[Tall Paul]

But we'll never compete with a Wage bill that's half that of the next lowest in the Premier League (with the possible exception of Huddersfield).

How do you know what our wage bill, and that of other PL clubs, is for this season or even last season for that matter?

[taio]

People who criticise the clubs transfer dealings are called out as being 'negative'.

IMO its those that are happy with the transfer window that are negative

There's plenty of people criticising in a balanced way for not signing a centre back that aren't being 'called out' as negative. A small few are suggesting it's been a brilliant transfer window whereas a small handful are suggesting it has been shambolic. It's neither of those and the majority will be in between those two points i.e. pleased at some of our dealings but critical of an apparent gap that needed filling.

[Sidney1st]

How do you know what our wage bill, and that of other PL clubs, is for this season or even last season for that matter?

In all fairness Royboy is the go to person for finances generally on here.

You can find out most of it yourself though through companies house, that's how I've seen Brighton's, Boro's and Rovers over the last few seasons via someone else when we are off fishing on FB.

[BertiesBeehole]

I'm assuming you have only just become a Claret then, if this is your view of low standards at Burnley?

Thing is Fosh I think we're gonna have to get used to fans who've only followed us for a few years not fully understanding how a club should be well run.
They think it's all about money and that we should/need to spend big to reach our objectives.
The likes of Leicester winning the league don't help or the inability to grasp finances.

Suspect this will only get worse in the coming years.

But we can try and keep the young uns grounded. And I can see how growing up following the clarets and the Premier League in general in the last few years might skew things so we shouldn't be too harsh on them.

[Tall Paul]

In all fairness Royboy is the go to person for finances generally on here.

You can find out most of it yourself though through companies house, that's how I've seen Brighton's, Boro's and Rovers over the last few seasons via someone else when we are off fishing on FB.

Being knowledgable about finances doesn't mean he has inside information, unless he's the club's accountant.

Companies House records are always two years out of date, our latest accounts are from the Championship winning season. We've clearly increased the wages budget significantly since then.

[Sidney1st]

Being knowledgable about finances doesn't mean he has inside information, unless he's the club's accountant.

Companies House records are always two years out of date, our latest accounts are from the Championship winning season. We've clearly increased the wages budget significantly since then.

Share holders are sent information about the clubs accounts annually I believe and Royboy also gets these.

[dsr]

But we'll never compete with a Wage bill that's half that of the next lowest in the Premier League (with the possible exception of Huddersfield).

We competed last year.

[Turfytop]

Royboy knows his stuff, like reading his posts, very knowledgeable

[Tall Paul]

Share holders are sent information about the clubs accounts annually I believe and Royboy also gets these.

I don't think the information that the shareholders get is much more detailed, or timely, than the accounts filed at Companies House and that doesn't explain how he knows what all the other PL clubs are paying their players.

Royboy knows his stuff, like reading his posts, very knowledgeable

I agree, to an extent, but I find it hard to believe that anybody can know how our current wage budget compares to the other PL clubs with such accuracy.

[Sidney1st]

I don't think the information that the shareholders get is much more detailed, or timely, than the accounts filed at Companies House and that doesn't explain how he knows what all the other PL clubs are paying their players.



I agree, to an extent, but I find it hard to believe that anybody can know how our current wage budget compares to the other PL clubs with such accuracy.

You're more than welcome to chat about it with Royboy when the figures are released, which is usually towards the end of the calendar year.

There are a couple of others who have good knowledge of football finances too.

I know enough to go baiting with elsewhere and to hold a decent conversation about it on here when it comes to Burnley.

[Tall Paul]

You're more than welcome to chat about it with Royboy when the figures are released, which is usually towards the end of the calendar year.

There are a couple of others who have good knowledge of football finances too.

I know enough to go baiting with elsewhere and to hold a decent conversation about it on here when it comes to Burnley.

As I said, when the figures are released they're almost two years out of date and with the rapidly changing nature of football finances they aren't particularly relevant to where we are now.

I'm more than happy to accept that our wage budget is among the bottom two or three in the PL, but I find it hard to believe that it's as low as half of some of the clubs around us in the table.

[Sidney1st]

We will find out at the end of the year about last season, so its only 6 months behind.

Hudderafield owed their owner £40 million plus prior to promotion, so their wage bill could be daft for them.

[Sidney1st]

Oh and Brighton owe Bloom £160-180 million last I heard so again their wage bill could be stupid already.

We already know that everyone else's is higher than ours including Newcastle.

[KRBFC]

Royboy is correct, the funds weren't available unless we sold players first which I find disgraceful and I cant defend it.

[Sidney1st]

How so?
We receive our PL money in installments and transfer fees are generally paid installments.

At a guess you don't have a clue and are just trying to sh it stir.

[Jimscho]

Royboy is correct, the funds weren't available unless we sold players first which I find disgraceful and I cant defend it.

Point me to the post where Royboy said we had to sell to buy players?I can't find it.

[Royboyclaret]

Time is a bit limited right now, but I'll try to answer TallPaul as briefly as possible.

Information regarding clubs' accounts are usually available some six months after the financial year end and the last figures for Burnley show that the Wage bill to Jun'16 was £27m with an additional £11m paid in promotion bonuses. From that and the information available to me I have projected a figure of £45m for our first year back in the PL to Jun'17. For some sort of comparison, the following are the Wage bills of all PL clubs to Jun'16:-

Arsenal.....£195m
Villa.......£81m
Bournemoth......£60m
Chelsea.......£224m
Palace........£81m
Everton.......£84m
Leicester........£80m
Liverpool.......£208m
Man City.........£198m
Man Utd.........£232m
Newastle........£75m
Norwich........£67m
Southampton...........£85m
Stoke.........£82m
Sunderland.........£84m
Swansea........£82m
Spurs.........£101m
Watford.........£58m
West Brom..........£74m
West Ham..........£85m.

Of course all of the above will be significantly higher to year end Jun'17.

[Tall Paul]

Time is a bit limited right now, but I'll try to answer TallPaul as briefly as possible.

Information regarding clubs' accounts are usually available some six months after the financial year end and the last figures for Burnley show that the Wage bill to Jun'16 was £27m with an additional £11m paid in promotion bonuses. From that and the information available to me I have projected a figure of £45m for our first year back in the PL to Jun'17. For some sort of comparison, the following are the Wage bills of all PL clubs to Jun'16:-

Arsenal.....£195m
Villa.......£81m
Bournemoth......£60m
Chelsea.......£224m
Palace........£81m
Everton.......£84m
Leicester........£80m
Liverpool.......£208m
Man City.........£198m
Man Utd.........£232m
Newastle........£75m
Norwich........£67m
Southampton...........£85m
Stoke.........£82m
Sunderland.........£84m
Swansea........£82m
Spurs.........£101m
Watford.........£58m
West Brom..........£74m
West Ham..........£85m.

Of course all of the above will be significantly higher to year end Jun'17.

Thanks Roy.

So basically, you're projecting our PL wage bill based on our Championship wage bill from the year before? It seems you're also excluding bonus payments in your projections (correct me if I'm wrong), which may or not be included in the figures for the other PL clubs (I suspect they are included).

I'm not saying your projections aren't reasonable, but they are only projections and I would expect our wages to have increased significantly again compared to last season.

[Royboyclaret]

No worries Tall Paul.

From the information that is available to me the £45m should be within a million either way in total to Jun'17. That's based on a base Wage bill of £37m plus 'staying up' bonuses of £8m. Obviously you're correct in assuming a substantial increase for this current season.

Remember the Wage bills I quoted for the PL clubs to Jun'16 is the final year of the old Sky TV deal, after which there was a 67% increase in TV money from the '16/'17 season. There will therefore be significant increases for all clubs as a result of the revised deal.

[Tall Paul]

I can believe that last season's wage bill was in that sort of ballpark, although it still seems low to me.

However, the standard of player we've signed in this window and the clubs we've signed them from indicates that the budget has been significantly increased so we surely can't be that far behind the likes of Watford, Brighton, Bournemouth etc? If we are, our PL status can't be sustainable for long.

[Sidney1st]

Why can't it be sustainable for long?

Is that solely down to the wages we pay?
What makes Shelvey a better player than Defour?
Shelvey is on £80k a week...Defour will be on half that.

[Tall Paul]

Why can't it be sustainable for long?

Is that solely down to the wages we pay?
What makes Shelvey a better player than Defour?
Shelvey is on £80k a week...Defour will be on half that.

It's been proven that league position correlates with the relative wage bills of clubs.

It's possible to go against that in the short term by picking up bargains, but in the long term if we continue to pay the lowest wages in the PL we'll go back down eventually, especially if we're so far behind our rivals.

[Vegas Claret]

I would imagine the Board of Directors, the manager, the players, the shareholders and supporters will all want us to stay in the PL. If we will never be able to sustain the wages etc then the club need to find new revenue streams and maybe attract additional investors. There are plenty of clubs that have done it successfully and established themselves. It's a conundrum as nobody wants us in a Venkys situation.

[Sidney1st]

It's been proven that league position correlates with the relative wage bills of clubs.

It's possible to go against that in the short term by picking up bargains, but in the long term if we continue to pay the lowest wages in the PL we'll go back down eventually, especially if we're so far behind our rivals.

There will be 3 sets of plans/targets in place I suspect for various aspects of the club.
In the short term we need to stay in the PL but not endanger the club financially as other clubs have done in the all too recent past.
The medium term will be to improve the squad and league standings each season where possible, also increasing other financial burdens/requirements as a result.
Long term - PL title , or on a serious note try and get into Europe via cup competitions etc.

Some people want the medium plan to be the short term plan but that's because they're impatient.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Some people want the medium plan to be the short term plan but that's because they're impatient.

Most people just want as much cover at centre back as last season. That seems to be the main gripe on here today.

[Sidney1st]

Most people just want as much cover at centre back as last season. That seems to be the main gripe on here today.

Yes and I agree with that, but I'm referring to the increasing demands for us to match the wages offered by other clubs, most of whom are already in debt and bank rolled by owners.

[Tall Paul]

There will be 3 sets of plans/targets in place I suspect for various aspects of the club.
In the short term we need to stay in the PL but not endanger the club financially as other clubs have done in the all too recent past.
The medium term will be to improve the squad and league standings each season where possible, also increasing other financial burdens/requirements as a result.
Long term - PL title , or on a serious note try and get into Europe via cup competitions etc.

Some people want the medium plan to be the short term plan but that's because they're impatient.

That's fine and the way to achieve those targets is to steadily increase the wage budget, which I think we're doing. But, if Roy is correct and we're only paying half of what everyone else is then we need to catch up more quickly or we'll almost certainly be relegated.

I think (and hope) we'll be a lot closer than Roy does to our rivals in terms of wages, maybe not basic, but once performance related bonuses are taken into account.

[Royboyclaret]

"Some people want the medium plan to be the short term plan but that's because they're impatient."


I think I must fall into that category!.........But seriously, when the secret seven sit round the boardroom table at the end of every month and mull over the long term future of our famous club, you have to wonder how many of them would not be too disappointed to see us ply our trade back in the Championship. Much more comfortable there than having to compete with the City's and United's of this world.

Tall Paul is absolutely bang on with his prophecy that continuing indefinitely with our current Wage policy can only result in one outcome and if the Board don't want that scenario then at some point soon we have to become really serious about our PL adventure.

Claretspice was clearly in a minority on the 'Bullshit' thread and took considerable flak, but what if he's right?.....

[keith1879]

There will be 3 sets of plans/targets in place I suspect for various aspects of the club.
In the short term we need to stay in the PL but not endanger the club financially as other clubs have done in the all too recent past.
The medium term will be to improve the squad and league standings each season where possible, also increasing other financial burdens/requirements as a result.
Long term - PL title , or on a serious note try and get into Europe via cup competitions etc.

Some people want the medium plan to be the short term plan but that's because they're impatient.

Looking at the midfield I'd say we are already in the medium term. Defour staying and getting fit and Brady getting fit have been like two new signings for me. Let's hope the league standing reflects this in 2018.

[Greenmile]

People who criticise the clubs transfer dealings are called out as being 'negative'.

IMO its those that are happy with the transfer window that are negative

I know you are, but what am I?

[Hazzyclaret1955]

Being knowledgable about finances doesn't mean he has inside information, unless he's the club's accountant.

Companies House records are always two years out of date, our latest accounts are from the Championship winning season. We've clearly increased the wages budget significantly since then.

You have to file the accounts up to 9 months after the year end so they will be between 9 and 21 months out of date. Never 2 years

[Tall Paul]

You have to file the accounts up to 9 months after the year end so they will be between 9 and 21 months out of date. Never 2 years

Yeah, fair comment.

What I meant was that by the time the next accounts, relating to last season are filed it'll be close to the end of this season so the wages figure will be effectively almost two years old. So we won't find out our wages for this season until March 2019.

[Jimscho]

Following the figures above from Royboy I googled Premier League finances 2017 which give the 2016 figures.I looked at the Guardian article which gave various figures for each club such as Turnover,Wages,net Profit/loss,total debt etc and there were some interesting figures.One that caught my eye was Aston Villa with T/O £109m Wages £93m Net loss £81m.(think Roy may have picked up the loss figure instead of wages in the list above.All other wages seemed right.)Don't think those figures would be sustainable and worrying for their fans.Unfortunatly I am useless at doing links so can't reproduce them.To be fair to AV it did say the large loss due to an accounting technicality.There total debt was £77m due to creditors.Without prudence could we finish up in this position.