The Great Repeal Bill

[AndrewJB]

I haven't added my thoughts to this thread yet, but today has prompted me too.

Juncker has made it clear the degree to which integration is coming, which it always was of course. The euro will be used to blackmail the countries wobbling about this, so that they end up integrating anyway for fear of being booted out of the single currency (I am currently reading Yanis Varoufakis's Adults In The Room, where the former Greek finance minister, a far leftie so a bit different to me, explains how this form of blackmail was used to persuade Greece's leaders to get bailed out, and in doing so save the German and French banks who were virtually insolvent after 2008, he suggests Merkel lied about that, and the Greek bailout was a trick to make it look like the banks were able to lend again and stay solvent. The book is unbelievable).

Varoufakis is a staunch Remainer, but believes we (and they) should stay in to reform it from the inside. That's where he and I start to differ. I don't think it can be done.

So, now that I have reaffirmed in my mind the 100% need for Brexit, whatever the cost, I think about the repeal bill.

Sounds like a perfect parliamentary process.

The MPs have a chance to add amendments, and it sounds some should be done to water down the powers, BUT there should still be the ability to make tweaks to laws without parliament intervening, because of the sheer scale of laws to be passed over, which may have weird lines in them irrelevant and unworkable to the UK. It's a fine balancing act.

The hysteria about this is overdone. People on this thread compare it to Hitler. The media are up in arms but Juncker's plans wouldn't make page 10 of a daily. Yes, it needs tinkering with, which will happen and would have even with a large Tory majority, but let's get real. Anybody who thinks May (a fairly central Tory) is comparable to Hitler really does need to go and get some therapy. Our democratic system, which we have built over centuries and wish to preserve, will ensure it ends up fine, worry not, that's what we pay MPs for.

The legislation gives ministers the power to amend EU laws without the scrutiny of parliament. If all they're doing is amending the laws to become UK law then there's no reason they can't give us a guarantee within the same legislation that they can't also change the content of those laws.

[elwaclaret]

I think the noises from Europe yesterday clearly underlines why so many people voted out, rightly or wrongly. I'm not in favour of trusting our own politicians free reign to change laws but I find it less irksome than if Europe were doing it.

Further expansion - the Baltic states and Turkey presumably.... can't see any problems resulting from that
Enforced monetary union - because one size fits all works so well.... I can't see France or Germany being so happy as lesser Economies drag the Euro back into the doldrums.

They are heading for a Federal Europe and just like the other Federal Government it will lead to Millions having to live with decisions not in their own interests for the "good of the whole"... and for the benefit of none.

[Lancasterclaret]

I think it shows that people hear what they want to hear.

I heard a vision of one man, and what that one man says does not automatically come about.

I've said that already on this thread, but everyone correcting Ringo lack of knowledge on the subject probably submerged it!

[RingoMcCartney]

When the House of Lords kicks this Great Repeal Bill back to the Commons to 'think again', how will your ballot box democracy help you there, Ringo? How will you remove those pesky unelected Lords who thwart 'the will of the people'?

I'd scrap the house of lords. It's a dinosaur. An anathema.
It's not democratic. You've as much chance of kicking out a Lord as you have a EU commissioner or EU president. I'm consistent on both.

[UpTheBeehole]

Ringo, did you ever vote in a European election?

That's been your platform to effect the EU for years.

[RingoMcCartney]

So the wide range of people complaining about it, including Tories such as John Penrose who say we need to get on with Brexit, are all "remoaners" trying to delay Brexit?

If we'd remained in the EU we could have vetoed many of those proposals you're complaining about (EU army for instance, we had an absolute veto there). Would that have been democratic enough for you?

Your concerned about the POTENTIAL power grab.

Extending Schengan

Making the Euro compulsory

Expanding membership (imperialism)

Withdrawing funding for smaller parties and excluding independents

The APPOINTMENT of Pan EU ministers with the right but no mandate to over ride national sovereignty.

Forming an EU army

All without a mandate, a treaty, a referendum.

THAT IS AN ABSOLUTE POWER GRAB.

You can vote out the Tories.

You CANNOT vote out Junker or the Commission.

[RingoMcCartney]

Ringo, did you ever vote in a European election?

That's been your platform to effect the EU for years.

Yes.

Cameron had a platform, when he went trecked round europe, then to the Commission, with his list of demands.

That worked out well for him didn't it!

[UpTheBeehole]

If millions of people across Europe were dissatisfied with Juncker, they'd let their MEPs know, and the MEPs would vote him out.

So yes, you can vote him out.

[RingoMcCartney]

If millions of people across Europe were dissatisfied with Juncker, they'd let their MEPs know, and the MEPs would vote him out.

So yes, you can vote him out.

When was the last time it happened. Just out of interest !?

FYI. A recent opinionpoll showed that 60% of Europeans were concerned about the direction the EU is taking.

[UpTheBeehole]

There's been no need for it to happen, and there isn't now.

How many times did you vote in the European elections Ringo?

Do you know who your MEPs are?

[Sidney1st]

I don't even know who my local MP is, nevermind MEP.

[Sidney1st]

If millions of people across Europe were dissatisfied with Juncker, they'd let their MEPs know, and the MEPs would vote him out.

So yes, you can vote him out.

I'll stick my neck out here and say that MEP's are probably more bothered about their pay and pensions, plus anything else they can get then they are about doing a proper job.

[RingoMcCartney]

And you STILL make no reference at all. To the sweeping powers announced by the UNELECTED , UNACCOUNTABKE and UNSACKABLE, Junker.

None at all.

Your concerned about some POTENTIAL power grab.

However-

Extending Schengan

Making the Euro compulsory

Expanding membership (imperialism)

Withdrawing funding for smaller parties and excluding independents

The APPOINTMENT of Pan EU ministers with the right but no mandate to over ride national sovereignty.

Forming an EU army

All without a mandate, a treaty, a referendum.

THAT IS AN ABSOLUTE POWER GRAB.

You can vote out the Tories.

You CANNOT vote out Junker or the Commission.

[Lancasterclaret]

To the sweeping powers announced by the UNELECTED , UNACCOUNTABKE and UNSACKABLE, Junker.

Again, he's not a king.

He can't do that.

Please try to understand.

[RingoMcCartney]

There's been no need for it to happen, and there isn't now.

How many times did you vote in the European elections Ringo?

Do you know who your MEPs are?

You're starting to sound obsessed mate.

If you don't think it's concerning that the president of the EU has announced the formation of an army. Without a treaty change, referendum or mandate. That's fine. But as a proud brexiteer, I say thank f*** we're getting out!

[KateR]

you can vote anyone out but it rarely never happens with MEP's to my knowledge, they're just people out there supposed to look after the people in Europe, rather than go directly to MEP's Britain voted as a majority to just leave all together doing away with the need for MEP's, that should shave a little of the budget when it has finished.

The bill has to undergo numerous more votes before it is enforceable so no one has given anyone these sweeping powers I hear so much about, same with leaving, so much to do in so short of time, but we will get there even if there is an extension.

The repeal bill is a fishing expedition and will get amended and I believe everyone knows that, when you want something never start off telling exactly what you want or you will never get it as its always cut back somehow.

[UpTheBeehole]

I'll stick my neck out here and say that MEP's are probably more bothered about their pay and pensions, plus anything else they can get then they are about doing a proper job.

That's a scandalous suggestion.

People don't give up their lives to go and live in a flat in Brussels representing ungrateful little shits who don't know who they are purely to feather their own nest.

[UpTheBeehole]

You're starting to sound obsessed mate.

If you don't think it's concerning that the president of the EU has announced the formation of an army. Without a treaty change, referendum or mandate. That's fine. But as a proud brexiteer, I say thank f*** we're getting out!

The Synchronised Armed Forces Europe, or the 'EU Army' as you would call it, was given the green light in 2009, 5 years BEFORE Juncker entered the European parliament.

There was a vote for it too, but you won't know that because you're completely ignorant to facts.

[RingoMcCartney]

Again, he's not a king.

He can't do that.

Please try to understand.

Come on Lancs, you're swerving. Just like you did when I pointed out Labour has done a massive u-turn on Brexit after saying itd take us "out of the single market" and end" free movement of people". Then got the votes of many brexiteers, then out popped the odious Starmer.

So don't swerve this one. What's your opinion of this clear power grab by the EU.?

No treaties, no referendums, no mandate to be voted on.

What's your opinion about what was said in Drunkers speech yesterday.

I'll remind you of what you said -"Basically, it will get abused, because sadly that is what politicians do when they are not accountable to anything.

Is the EU "abusing it's power?"

Please try your best to answer.

[Damo]

I'm starting to think upthebeehole is a fantastic parody account.
Although, a brexiteer couldn't possibly be smart enough to pull that off so brilliantly

[Bacchus]

I'll stick my neck out here and say that MEP's are probably more bothered about their pay and pensions, plus anything else they can get then they are about doing a proper job.

I'm not sure it's fair to judge them all by Farage's standards.

[evensteadiereddie]

Ooooh, look, that paint's nearly dry...

[UpTheBeehole]

I'm starting to think upthebeehole is a fantastic parody account.
Although, a brexiteer couldn't possibly be smart enough to pull that off so brilliantly

I just can't handle idiots chatting ****, which happens a lot with brexiters.

Feel free to point out where I'm wrong by the way.

[Lancasterclaret]

Ringo, its not swerving to point out that you are talking a load of ********

Does Juncker want what he says? - Of course

Will he get it? - very doubtful

Can he wave a magic wand and it all magically happens - No, he can't, and that is the point I'm making

[Sidney1st]

I just can't handle idiots chatting ****, which happens a lot with brexiters.

Pot kettle...

[UpTheBeehole]

Pot kettle...

You don't even know who your MP is, you're not qualified for serious political debate.

[Sidney1st]

That's a scandalous suggestion.

People don't give up their lives to go and live in a flat in Brussels representing ungrateful little shits who don't know who they are purely to feather their own nest.

I know I would , I've heard the Kinnocks did well out of it.

[Sidney1st]

You don't even know who your MP is, you're not qualified for serious political debate.

You're making this really easy to laugh at you..

[RingoMcCartney]

The Synchronised Armed Forces Europe, or the 'EU Army' as you would call it, was given the green light in 2009, 5 years BEFORE Juncker entered the European parliament.

There was a vote for it too, but you won't know that because you're completely ignorant to facts.

There was "a vote!!!!!"

My postal vote must still be lost in the post!!!

How did you vote beehole!? Cos for " the vote " to have been a popular genuinely demostatic vote, you'd have put your x on the ballot paper.

When was it and were the British people get a vote?

Did you vote for British soldiers to join an EU army lead by the likes of the permanently p1ssed Junker?

As for being "completely ignorant of the facts" Nick Clegg said an EU army was a "dangerous fantasy" live on air, LBC, JUNE 2016. Was he lying through is europhile Remoaner teeth, or was he "completely ignorant of the fact!!!!?"

[UpTheBeehole]

There was "a vote!!!!!"

My postal vote must still be lost in the post!!!

How did you vote beehole!? Cos for " the vote " to have been a popular genuinely demostatic vote, you'd have put your x on the ballot paper.

Did you vote for British soldiers to join an EU army lead by the likes of the permanently p1ssed Junker?

As for being "completely ignorant of the facts" Nick Clegg said an EU army was a "dangerous fantasy" live on air, LBC, JUNE 2016. Was he lying through is europhile Remoaner teeth, or was he "completely ignorant of the fact!!!!?"

I voted in line with my belief in politics, and was rewarded with 3 NW MEPs out of 8 who represent my views.

They then vote on my behalf.

It's called democracy.

[RingoMcCartney]

I voted in line with my belief in politics, and was rewarded with 3 NW MEPs out of 8 who represent my views.

They then vote on my behalf.

It's called democracy.

Or, in English.

THERE WAS NO VOTE

[Bacchus]

There was "a vote!!!!!"

My postal vote must still be lost in the post!!!

How did you vote beehole!? Cos for " the vote " to have been a popular genuinely demostatic vote, you'd have put your x on the ballot paper.

Did you vote for British soldiers to join an EU army lead by the likes of the permanently p1ssed Junker?

As for being "completely ignorant of the facts" Nick Clegg said an EU army was a "dangerous fantasy" live on air, LBC, JUNE 2016. Was he lying through is europhile Remoaner teeth, or was he "completely ignorant of the fact!!!!?"

I reckon it's me that's missing some ballot papers because apparently Ringo gets a vote on every single domestic policy proposal. I mean, that's how democracy works, right?

[Damo]

I just can't handle idiots chatting ****, which happens a lot with brexiters.

Feel free to point out where I'm wrong by the way.

I would, but I wouldn't like to take away the humour from your posts.
After that there would be very little left

[UpTheBeehole]

Or, in English.

THERE WAS NO VOTE

There was a ******* vote you massive belmer.

You don't get to vote on every single thing that happens in the UK parliament do you?
No, your elected MP votes on your behalf.

That's how democracy works.

You massive, massive belmer.

[Lancasterclaret]

Ringo believes in "One man, One Vote"

He is the man, and he has the vote.*

*apologies to the late, great Terry Pratchet

[RingoMcCartney]

Ringo, its not swerving to point out that you are talking a load of ********

Does Juncker want what he says? - Of course

Will he get it? - very doubtful

Can he wave a magic wand and it all magically happens - No, he can't, and that is the point I'm making

Come on lancs, this is like taking candy from a baby mate.

"Doubtful" really isn't good enough. I doubt very much that the great repeal Bill is going to bring about the 4th Reich as you do. So.

One last time.

Extending Schengan

Making the Euro compulsory

Expanding membership (imperialism)

Withdrawing funding for smaller parties and excluding independents, while big (pro Eu!) parties get increases.

The APPOINTMENT of Pan EU ministers with the right but no mandate to over ride national sovereignty.

Forming an EU army

All without a mandate, a treaty, a referendum.

When he made his speech. There was not one dissenting voice. Not one. So let's drop the "doubtful" is this an example of

"Basically, it will get abused, because sadly that is what politicians do when they are not accountable to anything."

[Tall Paul]

Ringo surpassing himself again.

[UpTheBeehole]

All of the above subject to the approval of elected MEPs.

It's not just him dictating it.

[RingoMcCartney]

There was a ******* vote you massive belmer.

You don't get to vote on every single thing that happens in the UK parliament do you?
No, your elected MP votes on your behalf.

That's how democracy works.

You massive, massive belmer.

Calm down fella!

The fact you think an unelected body such as the EU. Can announce, that it will form an EU army, and expect men and women to potentialy make the ultimate sacrifice of giving their life. Without first getting their permission yo do so. Shows as much immaturity in thought as there was in your last post.

[UpTheBeehole]

The EU is completely elected. Which bit about that do you not get?

[Lancasterclaret]

It was a speech Ringo

You are either trolling, or you think he's really Emperor Juncker I, ruler of all Europe.

You can't think its 2), because not even Daniel "everything I've said turns out to be a lie" Hannan doesn't even think that.*

*for all I know, that mad b**tard could actually think that

[Lancasterclaret]

Ringo

Theresa may stands up and says "All wives must give thier husbands a blow job every day"

Disregard the awful mental image of Theresa satisfying her hubby, but does that mean that is now what is going to happen because she's said it?

Think about it

[Bacchus]

Think about it

That's the bit he's going to struggle with.

[aggi]

Your concerned about the POTENTIAL power grab.

Extending Schengan

Making the Euro compulsory

Expanding membership (imperialism)

Withdrawing funding for smaller parties and excluding independents

The APPOINTMENT of Pan EU ministers with the right but no mandate to over ride national sovereignty.

Forming an EU army

All without a mandate, a treaty, a referendum.

THAT IS AN ABSOLUTE POWER GRAB.

You can vote out the Tories.

You CANNOT vote out Junker or the Commission.

Is Ringo's keyboard broken and his only option is to copy and paste random sentences?

At the risk of repeating myself (and sounding like a Ringo).

That stuff you keep copying and pasting, we could have vetoed that, wouldn't have happened unless we wanted it to.

Juncker can be voted out. That's what the European Elections are for. The candidates for President are announced before the elections, people know what they are voting for.

Don't let all the inaccuracies in your post stop you copy and pasting it though.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Did you vote for British soldiers to join an EU army lead by the likes of the permanently p1ssed Junker?

Not accusing someone of being drunk are you Ringo?

[JohnMcGreal]

I'd scrap the house of lords. It's a dinosaur. An anathema.
It's not democratic. You've as much chance of kicking out a Lord as you have a EU commissioner or EU president. I'm consistent on both.

Interesting.

How do you feel about our Head of State being an unelected Queen or King who can't be kicked out? Are you in favour of abolishing the Monarchy?

[evensteadiereddie]

Christ, stop winding him up, lads - he'll be on his second box of tissues today.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Ok. Let's just say for one moment that I agreed with you.
EU law is going to become UK law. Most of these laws have been operational for years or decades. They will all become law "at a stroke" when we leave the EU, and this will give us a seamless transition. (OK).
Now, can you give me an example of any law that then needs to be changed in such a hurry that it is vital or essential that powers be given to an unelected executive, rather than going through the safety net of our established Parliamentary process?
Now then. Why not think again, and imagine that on the day we leave the EU it is Mr Corbyn, Mr McDonnell and Ms. Abbott who are the executive?. Changing laws without scrutiny doesn't perhaps seem so attractive now does it?
That's why Parliament is sovereign, and that's why - as I understand it - many voted to leave the EU.

I think that I was agreeing with you, which is that the proposed Act needs to change, which it will do with the 2nd reading and the Lords serving their essential purposes in our system. Parliament is sovereign and the Lords is an essential revision chamber (sensible revisions, not hijacking). I suspect the final Act will be more acceptable.

I think the bit where you were trying to challenge my point was the bit where I suggested that the sheer volume of the laws transferring over is impractical to change with Acts of Parliament, hence the need for these "Henry VIII" clauses. I can give excellent examples of things that we would want to change, but none to do with urgency, my argument is more that Parliament simply couldn't cope with the volumes. There should though be a back stop in place of some sort to stop powers being abused.

One example of a daft EU law is that the laws on intellectual property could be changed to allow you or I to buy products whose rights are owned by a UK company from outside the UK if it is cheaper. At the moment we cannot do that, it allows companies to charge a fortune in the EU but sell much cheaper in Asia and Africa. People would have much more £ in their pocket if that law was revised. Parliament could do it, but there are probably 10,000 similar examples.

[RingoMcCartney]

The EU is completely elected. Which bit about that do you not get?

The commission and the president are NOT ELECTED through a democratic popular vote. Not a single citizen of the EU have not a vote. What part of the definition democracy don't you get?

[aggi]

The commission and the president are NOT ELECTED through a democratic popular vote. Not a single citizen of the EU have not a vote. What part of the definition democracy don't you get?

Except they are elected, and citizens can participate in a vote which will impact on whether they are elected. If the European People's Party hadn't received the highest number of seats in the election (the party who had selected Juncker as their candidate before the election) then another candidate would have had the opportunity to form a majority. A bit of horse-trading went on, alliances were formed (does this bit sound familiar) and a majority backing was in place for Juncker.

I'm not really sure what kind of democracy you expect, but for most people the voting and stuff works. I expect you'll just shout some more soundbites (not elected, drunk, sovereignty, vote) rather than actually engage in why the above isn't a democratic process though.