Former Russian Spy attacked in the UK

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:11 pm

Because the reports on the situation of both patients differs wildly from what is being reported over here.

I know this may be hard to believe, but this is classic Russian disinformation tactics. They know that millions of us these days get all the news they want from a huge variation in sources, so this is just even more mudding of the waters.

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:25 pm

FWIW

Knobs and Knockers ..... Craig Murray

"What is left of the government’s definitive identification of Russia as the culprit in the Salisbury attack? It is a simple truth that Russia is not the only state that could have made the nerve agent: dozens of them could. It could also have been made by many non-state actors.....

"Update: I have just listened to the released alleged phone conversation between Yulia Skripal in Salisbury Hospital and her cousin Viktoria, which deepens the mystery further. I should say that in Russian the conversation sounds perfectly natural to me. My concern is after the 30 seconds mark where Viktoria tells Yulia she is applying for a British visa to come and see Yulia.

Yulia replies “nobody will give you a visa”. Viktoria then tells Yulia that if she is asked if she wants Viktoria to visit, she should say yes. Yulia’s reply to this is along the lines of “that will not happen in this situation”, meaning she would not be allowed by the British to see Viktoria. I apologise my Russian is very rusty for a Kremlinbot, and someone might give a better translation, but this key response from Yulia is missing from all the transcripts I have seen.

What is there about Yulia’s situation that makes her feel a meeting between her and her cousin will be prevented by the British government? And why would Yulia believe the British government will not give her cousin a visa in the circumstance of these extreme family illnesses?"

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... -knockers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:30 pm

It could also have been made by the Clangers on their secret moonbase.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:44 pm

Nah, there would have been a lot more whistling.

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:50 pm

Worth a read:

The Poison in our Body Politic .....Craig Murray

"As Porton Down now confirm, here is a straightforward lie from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, a lie that British diplomats around the world have been promoting to foreign governments.....

".The key point is that the FCO knew it was lying. This was published six days after I was told by an FCO source, and published, that Porton Down scientists were refusing to say the substance came from Russia. The FCO knew this....

"...There has to be some kind of redress for this. If we accept that we live in a society where the public bodies that are supposed to serve us, can lie to us and to the world in order specifically to heat up a cold war, then the future is bleak. This is a direct consequence of the lack of suitable punishment for those involved in the crime of creating lies to wage aggressive war on Iraq, particularly Tony Blair, Richard Dearlove and John Scarlett. As they are not in jail, Boris is confident he will not be either.

We have learned nothing from the Iraq War experience, and what is most disheartening is that officials within the FCO and security services still do not see it as their job to prevent lies rather than to propagate them when asked by a Minister...."

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... y-politic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:00 pm

People can no longer believe our leaders or would be leaders. In this case May (or May not) and Boris 'anything to make May look stupid in the long run' Johnson.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:20 pm

So believing Russia suddenly becomes the default back up plan?

if it is, then we are in real trouble

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:35 pm

WTF? We have one of our own MPs going on the Russian state news channel to criticise out government with no evidence, and furthering Russia's propaganda on this issue.

He's Chris Williamson MP, representing Derby North, and if he's not at least deselected then Labour won't be getting my vote while Corbyn's leader.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:WTF? We have one of our own MPs going on the Russian state news channel to criticise out government with no evidence, and furthering Russia's propaganda on this issue.

He's Chris Williamson MP, representing Derby North, and if he's not at least deselected then Labour won't be getting my vote while Corbyn's leader.

Yes they will.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:59 pm

I prefer Lab to the Cons, but I also prefer my UK politicians not to be Russian stooges.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:17 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I prefer Lab to the Cons, but I also prefer my UK politicians not to be Russian stooges.

Who exactly is a Russian stooge?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:55 pm

Chris Williamson, MP for Derby and chief stooge for Vladimir Putins Russia.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:21 pm

Stance taken by Labour front bench is staggering. Absolutely bloody staggering. See Corbyn et al for what they are, and always were.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:29 pm

I'd understand it slightly more if it was still the Soviet Union, but Putins Russia is everything that Corbyn et al despises.

It makes no sense whatsoever.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:30 pm

HatfieldClaret wrote:Stance taken by Labour front bench is staggering. Absolutely bloody staggering. See Corbyn et al for what they are, and always were.

Elaborate, please.

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:04 pm

When the British Brainwashing Corporation (BBC) change their tone and publish a negative and damning news report on this issue, then you know exactly what a mess this is. I have no doubt that the Russians are exploiting the actual shambles at the heart of the British government, it's so embarrassing that Russia feel able to call special meetings of the security council on this issue. The prime minister must act swiftly and she needs a fall guy, i'm afraid Boris must go, we need a new foreign secretary. Any futile attempts to blame Labour for this issue will no longer wash.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43662421" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:14 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:WTF? We have one of our own MPs going on the Russian state news channel to criticise out government with no evidence, and furthering Russia's propaganda on this issue.

He's Chris Williamson MP, representing Derby North, and if he's not at least deselected then Labour won't be getting my vote while Corbyn's leader.

The clips I saw had Williamson castigating Boris Johnson for stating that a PD scientist told him categorically that the nerve agent came from Russia, when that appears to be a lie. Onsidering Corbyn was attacked and called “unpatriotic” just because he wanted to see real evidence, and have Britain go through correct procedure before blaming, and making threats. If we’re looking for real Kremlin stooges, they’re more likely to have taken political donations than not. Has the Tory government used this issue to distract from other problems they face, such as Brexit, austerity, rising crime, cutting free school meals for poor children, and more? Probably. What’s wrong with calling them out on it?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:46 am

Seems to be enough evidence for all our allies though.

But Saint Jeremy isn't convinced, and we all know he's never, ever wrong so hey, lets pretend its all an M15 plot.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:01 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Seems to be enough evidence for all our allies though.

But Saint Jeremy isn't convinced, and we all know he's never, ever wrong so hey, lets pretend its all an M15 plot.

Allies like the US... Dare I mention Trump and his Russian issues...?

I used to respect your views, but your incessant attacks on Corbyn presents you as a Tory stooge, when I know you’re not. What exactly was wrong with Corbyn asking for evidence before accusations? It’s using a process, yet his critics jumped on it like he was in the Kremlin.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:13 am

Rick_Muller wrote:Allies like the US... Dare I mention Trump and his Russian issues...?

So you're saying that Trump, who won the election with Russian help / is subject to blackmail by the Russians, has decided to jump on an anti-Russian bandwagon with no evidence.

How does that work?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:17 am

Rick, he's leader of the opposition, and he's cleared for Privy Council meetings and a much higher level of intelligence info than anyone on the internet.

You can of course look at it two ways,

1) the evidence seen by HM Govt, all our allies and jeremy Corbyn isn't enough to do anything to implicate Russia.

2) the evidence seen by HM Govt, all our allies and jeremy Corbyn is enough to implicate Russia

All the people with that level of evidence have implicated Russia, except Jeremy Corbyn.

And then you have the points raised by me earlier in the thread.

Me questioning Jeremy Corbyn ability to react correctly to a clear and blatant attack on our country and its citizens (lets not forget, its a chemical weapon attack on our country, for the first time ever) does not make me a Tory stooge. Part of my exasperation with his reaction to this is that its playing into the Tories hands completely, and just reinforcing the view that when it comes to defence of the country (which when it all comes down to it, is what the government is there for), Corbyn is just not capable (because of a variety of reasons) of doing that part of being a PM.

And its a pretty uncertain world out there, you need a PM who you can go "Right, they will do the best thing for us as a country". In this case, JC doesn't appear to be doing that.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:20 am

And my main attack on this thread is Chris Williamson, who is a key ally of Corybn.

What he said on Putin Today was disgraceful, and he couldn't have parroted the Putin line more perfectly.

And I'll say again, give me a plausible explanation for an attack by a Russian invented nerve agent, on a Russian traitor, with Russia previous record in this. There just isn't one.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:42 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:And my main attack on this thread is Chris Williamson, who is a key ally of Corybn.

What he said on Putin Today was disgraceful, and he couldn't have parroted the Putin line more perfectly.

And I'll say again, give me a plausible explanation for an attack by a Russian invented nerve agent, on a Russian traitor, with Russia previous record in this. There just isn't one.

What exactly did Williamson say that upsets you so much? Give me quotes to work on eh...

I have given plausible explanations but was labelled a conspiracy theorist. I ask you again, why would Russia go to the trouble of having this chap released if they wanted him dead? They had him in jail in Russia! But no, let’s release Sergei so we can go to the trouble of using our own manufactured nerve agent and kill him near Porton Down causing a massive sway of opinion against us by the rest of the world because it looks like we did it, but leave it slightly ambiguous so that they can’t prove it.

Oh, and if it was military grade nerve agent, why are they not dead already? And why wasn’t his daughter affected as bad as him?

Sorry for asking for evidence - perhaps if people like me asked questions before (I know they did but we’re called conspiracy theorists) then we may not have had the invasion of Iraq or going back further the Vietnam War.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:52 am

Its all over the net Rick.

You haven't given plausible explanations, you've given a scenario that isn't remotely likely but it clears Russia of any wrongdoing.

And you haven't changed that since this thread started, so you haven't even attempted to look at alternatives.

And linking it to Vietnam(??????) and Iraq (slight more justification there I admit) doesn't change the fact that you appear to be ignoring a chemical weapons attack on our country by a foreign state.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:00 am

It’s called having an open mind mate.

Vietnam and Iraq - 2 Wars instigated on the back of lies by politicians - that’s true and also on the internet

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:09 am

Vietnam and Iraq are not the same.

I think you are a little bit out of your depth here Rick if you are going down that road. But anyway! Back to this.

Having doubts about the UK reaction to the chemical weapon attack is fine btw, but you appear to want to ignore the available evidence (which all of NATO has accepted, and Aus and NZ) because it reflects badly on Jeremy Corbyn.

I'm like you, I would like to see the evidence, and I've seen it. Its a russian invented nerve agent, being used on a russian defector, there are historical precedents and its not subtle. Its the Russians, and they are running a massive disinformation campaign that people like you are swallowing because its easier than accepting the reality.

Russia attacked this country with a chemical weapon. Christ, thats worrying enough as it is, no wonder people are struggling to accept it.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:26 am

Wow “I’ve read the internet so I know more than you...” argument.

Out of my depth - you have no idea mate, seriously. We’ll leave it there. I hear what you are saying, I even agree with what you are saying - but because I am not totally convinced you tell me I’m out of my depth - and I’m the brainwashed one... yeah of course.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:33 am

Wow “I’ve read the internet so I know more than you...” argument.

No, thats not it at all. That is your argument in fact. Which is why I'm struggling to accept it.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:34 am

The out of my depth comment is in regards to you thinking Vietnam and Iraq are the same btw.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:31 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:So believing Russia suddenly becomes the default back up plan?

if it is, then we are in real trouble

No one believes Russia either.

These are political games used to further politicians needs.
Brexit off table for a bit, May trying to say she is strong leader. Boris trying to gain personal ground as always, Putin had an election to win and remind his folk of his power, Trump given opportunity to show solidarity with UK, so he can visit and West in general showing their common ground, despite trade wars and Brexiting.

Wins all round except for a couple of expendables and huge inconvenience to Salisbury. Oh of course, Porton Down just happened to be close by and gained funding publicly, which it had already been promised.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:23 pm

The real disgrace in all of this is Boris Johnson, for completely undermining the government’s position against Russia. By saying Porton Down told him absolutely that it was Russia, and then having Porton Down day this wasn’t the case, he’s introduced enough ambiguity to allow Russia to question Britain’s integrity all through the process. All he had to do was stick to the facts, but the hothead had to shoot his mouth off. He is either an idiot, and should resign, or he’s done this deliberately, so should be sacked. If it was deliberate, those party donations made by Russian oligarchs must look as cheap as chips now.

If the country is attacked you want the government to respond, but not like a petulant child, and not without ascertaining the facts first. Look at the huge amount of international goodwill there was for the US after the attack on the twin towers, and then consider how quickly that was tossed aside by the way America reacted.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:06 pm

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:32 pm

Regarding Boris Johnson, he should have been sacked for the row over that poor teacher in Iran btw, let alone this one.

We all know why he still has a job, and its no surprise that Russia has tried to take advantage of our political weaknesses. Sadly for us, almost any result of this would have seen us weaker, and sadly that has come to pass.

I don't think even Russia expected the support they are getting from prominent opposition MPs though.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:35 pm

Leave.EU have shown just whose side they're on with their tweets recently.

Russia are so balls deep in them their prostate now knows fluent cyrillic.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:38 pm

I think Leave.Eu have made it very clear what they stand for in the past week.

And amazingly its absolutely **** all to do with sovereignty.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:57 pm

Seems to have been a pretty poor assassination attempt.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:12 pm

Dunno, both people were "critically ill" after it, and you have to remember with Litvichenko the bloke took a long time to die, which all adds to the theory that Russia is sending a message.

More praise for the NHS to be honest as well for saving them.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:14 pm

Lethal nerve agents are like Blackburn Rovers.

Not like they used to be.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:23 pm

You all want to be following this guy on twitter - only 27 years of dealing with chemical weapons and much better at responding to people with conspiracy theories than I ever could be.

https://twitter.com/DanKaszeta" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And this is good by him btw

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... n-the-spot" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:22 pm

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:22 pm

The honourable Chris Williamson MP:

Chris Williamson: "Boris Johnson used this terrible incident as a smoke screen"

"Boris Johnson used this terrible incident as a smoke screen" says Chris Williamson MP who believes Britain's reputation is "in tatters" after Foreign and Commonwealth Office deleted tweet that blamed Russia for spy poisoning..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 60VKFZ9fHA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well worth visiting his Twitter page...

https://twitter.com/derbychrisw?lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:36 pm

We would need to change our political culture completely.

Had we said absolutely nothing substantive in response, carefully collected the evidence, collaborated with our allies, and prepared a report. Had we then delivered that report 3 months later at the UN, by the most monotone and robotic diplomat we could find. Had we listed step by step ours and our allies' robust, co-ordinated, retaliatory response, delivered in the same monotone manner of our report, followed by the diplomat calmly retaking his seat behind the 'UNITED KINGDOM' sign on his desk, whilst putting his notes back into a file...

Then we'd have looked quite cool. "Hmm. You've got to hand it to them, those Brits are certainly calm under pressure!" would have been the international reaction.

Done that, but not in three months.

I don't want to worry you, but the evidence that the Malaysian airliner was shot down by Russian separatists using a Russian supplied missile is 100% accurate. Has that made the slightest bit of difference to Russia? Of course not, and neither would this. They do not admit to anything. period.

And take away the fact that Boris Johnson said something at the start, all that you have suggested has been done. Including at the UN today.

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:01 pm

Compulsive viewing for those trying to find out the truth:

CrossTalk on Skripal case: The Problem with BoJo

Peter Lavelle, Alexander Nekrassov, Marcus Papadopoulos, and Patrick Henningsen(21st Century Wire)

"After weeks of media hysterics and official claims without a shred of evidence, the case that Russia was behind the Salisbury poisoning incident is falling apart. Transparency and the rule of law never played a role. It always has been about politics and a pernicious agenda. What happens next sadly is only too predictable."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_FFSwL2tXI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ....24.54 (don't miss a second)

Comments:

...Thanks for the prompt show right after the BS at the UNSC

...We don't really have many real journalists here in the UK anymore. Instead we have stenographers and over paid teleprompter readers. Sadly RT is about as close to real journalism as it gets and which is why the rest of the rabble becomes hysterical about it.

...Another U.S./UK psyops against Russia & per usual the MSM & other propagandists are eating it right up. Lemmings over the cliff.

...Britain is now backpedalling; grabbing at straws, even as they fall apart in their hands; this was a stitchup from the start, Britain knows it and now the whole world knows it!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:05 pm

And if you wanted final proof that your conspiracy stories are bs.

You are backing the same horse as good old Blue Lab.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:19 pm

Not backing the government when they fly off the handle isn’t the same as backing Putin. And waiting for all the evidence before making accusations isn’t the same as believing in conspiracy theories. Johnson has certainly made things difficult for the government now though. To see him continue on after so many displays of ineptitude is remarkable.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:22 pm

Not when you consider the position the Conservatives are in it isn't sadly. But we've already been everywhere with the needs of the Conservative party being more important than the needs of the country.

What sort of evidence are you waiting for btw?

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:26 pm

Lancasterclaret is always happy to believe the Official Conspiracy Theory.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:48 pm

Funnily enough today, both daughter and father are said to be recovering well, despite allegedly being poisoned by this incurable chemical weapon.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:34 pm

IanMcL wrote:Funnily enough today, both daughter and father are said to be recovering well, despite allegedly being poisoned by this incurable chemical weapon.

Do you have a point? And what's a curable and incurable chemical? Do you think that nerve agents always have 100% fatality rates? Do you think there were no injuries during Japan's sarin attack in the 90s, only deaths?

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:41 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:

Do you have a point? And what's a curable and incurable chemical? Do you think that nerve agents always have 100% fatality rates? Do you think there were no injuries during Japan's sarin attack in the 90s, only deaths?

Well it could be a fair point IT as both were reported to have a1% chance of survival .