Fracking

[Jakubclaret]

Come on, it would be at least 40ft below

If only things were that simple!

[Stayingup]

I live about a mile away from Woodplumpton, and can assure you there’s been no fracking or fracking protests. These took place at Little Plumpton, a totally separate place, as has been previously pointed out to you. As you’ve proved in the rest of this thread though, the apparent authority you claim to have on this issue has not been backed up by basic facts or logic.

It has been backed up by a first class engineer. Unfortunatley for me I didn't retain the report. If I had I would have given you the informatiin to access it. Logic??? What do you mean?

[Stayingup]

It's irrelevant.

Nobody's ever going to take top spot from you, Champ !

Thats right. He wont have a clue about the improvements in the engineering of Fracking. But makes comments. There you go.

[Stayingup]

His name was Arkwright.

Typo but thanks. I ought to know better having been in the textile/ engineering industry all my working life.

[Stayingup]

Are you saying there was no such thing as a methane leak, earth tremors and concerned local residents?

I am referring to now. Not then.

[Stayingup]

Well energy prices up 58%. Great Lets all get greener.
The real issue is a massive reduction of energy production in this country over decades. We were self-sufficient in gas and pretty much so in electricity until governments screwed it all up in their quest to go Green and in the process introduce energy poverty to much of their populations. Xi Jinping must be wetting himself at such ineptitude.
Well something HAS to be done. Fracking, Extracting our energy recourses from the ground on land or under the seas until renewables can provide the electricity required at a fair cost to the consumer.
USA has done it and is (for)now self sufficient. Its been a balls up for years here with privatisation placing the responsibility for energy (gas and electricity) provision in the hands of the gas and electricity supplier companies, who it seems have not understood or disregarded the importance of gas exploration in favour of profits.

[Stayingup]

Is Sunday considered to be the end of the week or the start of the week? Just trying to work out if Stayingup is making a last dash attempt to win clown of the week or if he's setting the early pace for the crown

Now now. I was a fan of yours!!! I thought you were funnier than Danny Boyle but you've lost your lustre pal. Get c(F)racking on something useful.

[Jakubclaret]

I live about a mile away from Woodplumpton, and can assure you there’s been no fracking or fracking protests. These took place at Little Plumpton, a totally separate place, as has been previously pointed out to you. As you’ve proved in the rest of this thread though, the apparent authority you claim to have on this issue has not been backed up by basic facts or logic.

I partly reside near woodplumpton they might not have been any protests but if you look at some of the windows in the houses or in the garden you will see no fracking posters & signs on poles, all around that area people aren’t keen on fracking.

[Stayingup]

I just wonder what the result would be of a referendum on starting extracting our resources from the ground. The population has never been consulted on climate change or on what our current and forseeable energy sources should be.

I doubt the firm that worked at Woodplumpton on fracking woukd return. Quadrilla. They were abused and had their equipment damaged. Shell has wallked away from exploration for gas in the North sea. So thanks to our lamentable politicians of all hues we are stuck high energy prices for a long time.

[Devils_Advocate]

Yeah lets have another referendum so all the Tufton Street mob can con all the brainless idiots like you to vote against their own interests again just like they did with Brexit.

[Billy Balfour]

The end of UK fracking.

Egan said: “At a time when the UK is spending billions of pounds annually importing gas from all corners of the globe, and gas prices for hard-pressed UK households are rocketing, the UK government has chosen this moment to ask us to plug and abandon the only two viable shale gas wells in Britain.”

https://bit.ly/3GJn6TQ

[Stayingup]

Just read that our UK, deficit on imports of natural gas is running at 2 billion / month on moth and rising at 800 million per month and has doubled since last year. ONS figures. This is madness when we have enough to be self sufficient and even to export to Europe. Our politicians present and past have made catastrophic decisions to arrive at this situation. They are usuless.

[Stayingup]

Yeah lets have another referendum so all the Tufton Street mob can con all the brainless idiots like you to vote against their own interests again just like they did with Brexit.

You really are an ignorant b@st@rd. When you mention my name in a post have the courtesy to address it me.

When you mention my name in a post address it to me not tge board in general ignorant ****.

[Billy Balfour]

I wonder how green it is to ship LNG in massive tankers halfway round the world to UK ports, not to mention the astronomical financial costs in doing so.

[Devils_Advocate]

You really are an ignorant b@st@rd. When you mention my name in a post have the courtesy to address it me.

When you mention my name in a post address it to me not tge board in general ignorant ****.

Is this you talking about me without having the courtesy to address it to me?" You really are brainless as well as being an "ignorant b@st@rd" by your own standars

Thats right. He wont have a clue about the improvements in the engineering of Fracking. But makes comments. There you go.

[Billy Balfour]

I've no problem with the net-zero ambition, but not without the infrastructure in place, and certainly not at the expense of condemning millions of people into making the stark choice between eating and heating for years on end. The fact that we are in this current situation, regarding energy security, only goes to show that successive governments have failed the UK, and the current Govt even more so.

[Stayingup]

I wonder how green it is to ship LNG in massive tankers halfway round the world to UK ports, not to mention the astronomical financial costs in doing so.

It isnt. If we had exploited our energy resources and exported the excess we would have a trade surplus by now. Our current poor trade situation is blamed on Brexit by tools on here and others but not exploiting our recourses has been outstandingly bad by our so called elites and along with their running down UK is mostly to blame for the current deficit.

[Stayingup]

I wonder how green it is to ship LNG in massive tankers halfway round the world to UK ports, not to mention the astronomical financial costs in doing so.

It isnt. If we had exploited our energy resources and exported the excess we would have a trade surplus by now. Our current poor trade situation is blamed on Brexit by tools on here and others but not exploiting our recourses has been outstandingly bad by our so called elites and along with their running down UK is mostly to blame for the current deficit.

[Stayingup]

Is this you talking about me without having the courtesy to address it to me?" You really are brainless as well as being an "ignorant b@st@rd" by your own standars

Addressed to you nobber. Now shut it.

[Devils_Advocate]

Addressed to you nobber. Now shut it.

Nope, below is the full post and there's no direct mention of me. Whereas I actually responded directly to your idiotic post within 10 mins you referred to a post I made 4 months earlier without mention me at all. All I can say is youre not very good at this but hopefully you might have learned something today

RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:40 pm
It's irrelevant.

Nobody's ever going to take top spot from you, Champ !



Stayingup wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:30 pm
Thats right. He wont have a clue about the improvements in the engineering of Fracking. But makes comments. There you go.

[Stayingup]

Nope, below is the full post and there's no direct mention of me. Whereas I actually responded directly to your idiotic post within 10 mins you referred to a post I made 4 months earlier without mention me at all. All I can say is youre not very good at this but hopefully you might have learned something today

RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:40 pm
It's irrelevant.

Nobody's ever going to take top spot from you, Champ !



Stayingup wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:30 pm
Thats right. He wont have a clue about the improvements in the engineering of Fracking. But makes comments. There you go.

Well I'm still waiting for a sensible constructive comment from you about the UK energy situation. Champ!!!

All you ever do is make negative comments.

[Taffy on the wing]

I've no problem with the net-zero ambition, but not without the infrastructure in place, and certainly not at the expense of condemning millions of people into making the stark choice between eating and heating for years on end. The fact that we are in this current situation, regarding energy security, only goes to show that successive governments have failed the UK, and the current Govt even more so.

It's the fuk... conservatives' fault ...end of! ..or the Bell-ends who voted them in, take your pick.
Privatizing something so essential was bound to end like this.

[Taffy on the wing]

FRACKING IS A COMPLETE NONSENSE!

[Lowbankclaret]

Well energy prices up 58%. Great Lets all get greener.
The real issue is a massive reduction of energy production in this country over decades. We were self-sufficient in gas and pretty much so in electricity until governments screwed it all up in their quest to go Green and in the process introduce energy poverty to much of their populations. Xi Jinping must be wetting himself at such ineptitude.
Well something HAS to be done. Fracking, Extracting our energy recourses from the ground on land or under the seas until renewables can provide the electricity required at a fair cost to the consumer.
USA has done it and is (for)now self sufficient. Its been a balls up for years here with privatisation placing the responsibility for energy (gas and electricity) provision in the hands of the gas and electricity supplier companies, who it seems have not understood or disregarded the importance of gas exploration in favour of profits.

The figure you quoted is the Gov figure to play down the truth.
The truth is that bills will go up by at least 100%. I pay £160 a month and my fixed rate quote was £360 a month for the next year. Or stay on a variable rate which means my next months DD is £280.

[Billy Balfour]

At this rate, millions won't be able to afford to cook food, never mind heat and light their homes in winter.

France has limited their gas price increases to 12.6%. Electricity is only going up by 4%. They get 70% of their electricity from nuclear power and most of it is state-owned.

Here, in the UK, we are in a mess because we allowed our energy security to be governed by political dogma and the whims of the stock markets. Sacrificed on the mantra of 'all privatisation is good', rather than a pragmatic mix-economy approach, both state-owned and private sector, like the French.

We are our own biggest enemy and now the chickens have finally come home to roost.

[Lowbankclaret]

At this rate, millions won't be able to afford to cook food, never mind heat and light their homes in winter.

France has limited their gas price increases to 12.6%. Electricity is only going up by 4%. They get 70% of their electricity from nuclear power and most of it is state-owned.

Here, in the UK, we are in a mess because we allowed our energy security to be governed by political dogma and the whims of the stock markets. Sacrificed on the mantra of 'all privatisation is good', rather than a pragmatic mix-economy approach, both state-owned and private sector, like the French.

We are our own biggest enemy and now the chickens have finally come home to roost.

I don’t think nuclear is the answer, look at wind scale, three mile island, Chernobyl and Fukushima. But for single councillor the north west of England would be uninhabitable today.

[Lowbankclaret]

At this rate, millions won't be able to afford to cook food, never mind heat and light their homes in winter.

France has limited their gas price increases to 12.6%. Electricity is only going up by 4%. They get 70% of their electricity from nuclear power and most of it is state-owned.

Here, in the UK, we are in a mess because we allowed our energy security to be governed by political dogma and the whims of the stock markets. Sacrificed on the mantra of 'all privatisation is good', rather than a pragmatic mix-economy approach, both state-owned and private sector, like the French.

We are our own biggest enemy and now the chickens have finally come home to roost.

Fracking is not the answer, push the wind turbine companies to build more offshore wind farms faster.

Way cheaper than nuclear and perfectly safe.

[Stayingup]

Fracking is not the answer, push the wind turbine companies to build more offshore wind farms faster.

Way cheaper than nuclear and perfectly safe.
[/quote

As it stands wiind farms on a good day supply 24% of the UK electricity requurement. On a good day that is. It will take years to erect and commission enough of these to fulfill the requirements of UK. And then whaf happens when the wind doesnt blow? In addition what will the cost be to build them and for electricity they produce. Thel point is we are in an energy crisis now and costs are about to go up 54% in April. So meantime till we have sustainable energy production what would you suggest?

[Lowbankclaret]

Incorrect, it did over 40% in the last two weeks. If your going to quote facts get them correct.

[Lowbankclaret]

Also wrong is your time scales on power.
The Gov restrict the amount of sea bed allowed to be used for wind farms.
Wind farms can be up and runnng in 12 months.
Nuclear is ten years.
And to be fair things can be done faster.
I worked in the aero industry, the fastest a company was approved to make RR products for use on engines was 18 months. I got Hycrome Burnley approved and making parts in just over 6 months. The only thing restricting progress is humans who don’t believe it can be done.

[Lowbankclaret]

Just to add, the guys at Hycrome moved heaven and earth to get there, amazing people and typically Burnley folk. Any success is a team success.

[Stayingup]

Also wrong is your time scales on power.
The Gov restrict the amount of sea bed allowed to be used for wind farms.
Wind farms can be up and runnng in 12 months.
Nuclear is ten years.
And to be fair things can be done faster.
I worked in the aero industry, the fastest a company was approved to make RR products for use on engines was 18 months. I got Hycrome Burnley approved and making parts in just over 6 months. The only thing restricting progress is humans who don’t believe it can be done.

Wind farms can be up and running in 12 months !!! . Fact is it isn't being done and people in this country are going to feel the adverse cost effects badly and for a long time. And what happens when the wind doesnt blow? No we sensibly should exploit our resources until reliable and cost effective sustainable energy is avallable. If it ever will be. We are surrounded by sea and the tide is predictable maybe we should utilize that power.

[Stayingup]

Incorrect, it did over 40% in the last two weeks. If your going to quote facts get them correct.

No it didnt.

[dsr]

Also wrong is your time scales on power.
The Gov restrict the amount of sea bed allowed to be used for wind farms.
Wind farms can be up and runnng in 12 months.
Nuclear is ten years.
And to be fair things can be done faster.
I worked in the aero industry, the fastest a company was approved to make RR products for use on engines was 18 months. I got Hycrome Burnley approved and making parts in just over 6 months. The only thing restricting progress is humans who don’t believe it can be done.

I think you might be struggling with the 12 months scenario.

The latest stats had 24% of the UK's power coming from wind farms (that was 2020, 2021 figures aren't out yet). Suppose we want to make that 34%. We would need an extra 5,000 or so turbines to make up the difference, many of them offshore. I dare say we could get the odd turbine up and running in less than 12 months, but could we get a significant number? What with planning permission, design, site surveys, and so on, followed by all the building of the turbines, we are talking about quite a long time to really get going. certainly more than 12 months, not less.

[Lancasterclaret]

I think you might be struggling with the 12 months scenario.

The latest stats had 24% of the UK's power coming from wind farms (that was 2020, 2021 figures aren't out yet). Suppose we want to make that 34%. We would need an extra 5,000 or so turbines to make up the difference, many of them offshore. I dare say we could get the odd turbine up and running in less than 12 months, but could we get a significant number? What with planning permission, design, site surveys, and so on, followed by all the building of the turbines, we are talking about quite a long time to really get going. certainly more than 12 months, not less.

Yes, but anything we do will be long term

So if we are going to do it, and its going to take time and be a long term solution(and its not digging in the ground for more fossil fuels) then it might as well be sustainable energy, backed by nuclear stations

Course, with this lot in charge, we will be lucky if they have any plan at all!

[dsr]

Yes, but anything we do will be long term

So if we are going to do it, and its going to take time and be a long term solution(and its not digging in the ground for more fossil fuels) then it might as well be sustainable energy, backed by nuclear stations

Course, with this lot in charge, we will be lucky if they have any plan at all!

Definitely long term. But when was the last time we had a government with a long term plan for power? Not Johnson, not Cameron, not Blair. Cameron's short term plan, probably still in force, is that in case of emergency they have a network of private companies' diesel generators that can be plugged into the grid. Last week it was suggested that they will drain power from any charging electric cars that are plugged in. (That'll go down well, I don't think!)

Is nuclear power suitable as backup? I thought nuclear had to be kept at a fairly steady level because of the reactors and couldn't be powered up and down anything like as readily as coal fired?

[Lancasterclaret]

Definitely long term. But when was the last time we had a government with a long term plan for power? Not Johnson, not Cameron, not Blair. Cameron's short term plan, probably still in force, is that in case of emergency they have a network of private companies' diesel generators that can be plugged into the grid. Last week it was suggested that they will drain power from any charging electric cars that are plugged in. (That'll go down well, I don't think!)

Is nuclear power suitable as backup? I thought nuclear had to be kept at a fairly steady level because of the reactors and couldn't be powered up and down anything like as readily as coal fired?

Well, its "back up" as a more general term

Essentially the chances of the wind not blowing, tides not happening or the sun not shining are pretty unlikely

But its an expensive and long term plan that is required, and I'm pretty sure that we haven't got one

As you say, no one seems to have one, and the latest one on batteries is being shown up to be nowhere near ambitious enough sadly

[dsr]

Well, its "back up" as a more general term

Essentially the chances of the wind not blowing, tides not happening or the sun not shining are pretty unlikely

But its an expensive and long term plan that is required, and I'm pretty sure that we haven't got one

As you say, no one seems to have one, and the latest one on batteries is being shown up to be nowhere near ambitious enough sadly

Batteries sounds unworkable to me. Take February as perhaps the hardest month to cover - although this year it's blown several gales, it's pretty common to have a couple of weeks (sometimes more) of high pressure, no wind, freezing cold. We get weak sunshine and tides, but that won't be anywhere near enough. We need either very significant backup or else huge battery storage. We can't really rely on imports for a long cold snap because there's every chance Europe would be in the same boat.

And of course the long term plan, such as it is, is to vastly increase electricity use by abolishing gas heating. We have a theoretical long term plan - net zero, electric cars, heat pumps and so on - but what we don't have is any details about how it will work. Yikes.

[Lowbankclaret]

I think you might be struggling with the 12 months scenario.

The latest stats had 24% of the UK's power coming from wind farms (that was 2020, 2021 figures aren't out yet). Suppose we want to make that 34%. We would need an extra 5,000 or so turbines to make up the difference, many of them offshore. I dare say we could get the odd turbine up and running in less than 12 months, but could we get a significant number? What with planning permission, design, site surveys, and so on, followed by all the building of the turbines, we are talking about quite a long time to really get going. certainly more than 12 months, not less.

There was a CEO of a power gen company on Ian King live this week. He was saying they are building more offshore wind farms this year. They also won some of the bidding for sites off Scotland that were sold not long ago.
We should be pushing these companies to build them faster, not restricting them by only selling plots as and when.

It was he who said that in the last few weeks wind had provided over 40% of the power we needed. But to be fair it was because it’s been so windy. The average over the year will probably be about the same as what you say.

That’s the issue with wind, it does not always blow, hence we need other alternatives, just that nuclear is not for me. To dangerous and the waste is contaminated for hundreds of years. Interestingly Japan plans to dump millions of gallons of contaminated water into the sea from their nuclear accident because they see no alternative.

[Lowbankclaret]

There is an energy dashboard that shows what energy is being used to power our electric. It was shown live on COP 26 and it’s live on the net. So today it’s showing Wind as generating 39% of our electric.

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