Pace Out?

[Tall Paul]

I'm not at the Pace Out stage of the OP, but I do find myself in a different position to a lot of posters on this thread.

For me, chasing after Orsic wasn't a feather in the clubs cap it was a confirmation of everything that is still wrong with our recruitment.

Taking the unexpected departure of Wood out of the equation, I think it is generally accepted that our recruitment should have been focussed on a number of things

1) Signing players that can benefit the clubs balance sheet with development potential and future resale values.

2) At least one Centre midfielder ( creative or holding )

3) A classical right winger who can create chances by delivering crosses from the wing. The ability to score and contribute defensively would also be desirable.

4) Players that could form the core of a future promotion pushing team should we get relegated.

5) Players who could be expected to have a future at the club beyond 3 or 4 years.

6) Players that fit into the formation and system we currently play. The one that our current players are proficient in playing.

So we decide to focus our efforts on signing a 29 year old inverted left winger who has never played in a top tier competitive league, who will cost us £7m ( upfront ), who probably doesn't have a long time left in his career, who would have had a rapidly declining resale value, who doesn't fit into our system and who would have required us to switch to a new system to get the best out of him and who didn't tick any of our urgent need boxes ( central midfielder or right winger ).

Basically, a player that satisfied none of the obvious needs that most of the posters on here agree that we should be addressing.

And yet, Osric is being held aloft as the difference between success and failure in the poor window that we have just endured.

On the basis of what ?

Some youtube clips, in which he was given acres of space and time to pick his shots ( because the Mickey Mouse Croation league is so unbalanced that Zagreb can dominate the other teams with little effort, especially the bottom five ). Oh, and one European match against Tottenham.

For me that encapsulated out poor recruitment perfectly.

A complete absence of forward thinking strategy that places the emphasis almost completely on what we need now instead of what we need to protect and benefit our future.

A blinkered desire to change the way that we play from a boring but effective system to a more expansive attacking system that is far less effective against teams with the finances and technical players that are better suited to playing that way. If you adopt the same strategy as a competitor and you have fewer resources and a lesser talent base you will lose.

Alan Pace swallowed the Mike Rigg mantra of " the Winter window is too difficult to do business in " and he is now regurgitating it on a regular basis. He benefitted the club enormously by getting rid of Mike Rigg, but the excuse driven culture he developed, the sit back and wait for things to drop into our laps ethos, the poor transfer target selection and the recruitment professionals that he hired are still with us.

For me, hearing about Alan Pace jetting off to get a signing over the line ( if it actually happened ) isn't a cause for celebration when that target made little sense.

The only way that the Osric signing made any conceivable sense is when we consider three possible outcomes.

1) Osric players on the left and we permanently shift McNeill out to the right, playing with inverted wingers that are encouraged to score instead of contributing dangerous crosses that lead to goals or unsettle opponents and disrupt their own attacking rhythm.

2) Osric plays on the left, we play Cornet on the right and we sell McNeill.

3) We completely change our formation and play a forward midfield three containing Osric, McNeill and Cornet.

For me, all three of those outcomes make far less sense than simply going out and signing up a right winger that is either " cheap as chips " or not in the latter stages of their career.

To summarise, our failure to sign Osric wasn't the difference between success and failure in the last window it was the sign of us setting ourselves up to fail from the outset.

That failure to plan for success was bolstered by the comments coming out of the club before and during the window.

" When everyone player is fit we are a force "

" I believe in these lads, they can get the job done "

" The Winter window is too difficult to do any business in "

I find the last one particularly annoying and I feel embarrassed every time I hear somebody at the voice it with authority.

In the last window £600m of business was done by European clubs that didn't find it to difficult to do any business. That figure makes the total business done look far less than the total transactions that actually took place, because most loans have no recorded transfer attached, and it also takes out pre-contract deals that won't be ratified until the Summer.

https://www.footballdatabase.eu/en/tran ... 2022-01-03

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng ... ve-leagues

What makes the total business done even more oppressive, to the fallacy of business being too difficult, is that a lot of it was extra business done by clubs who ticked most of their boxes and did most of the business in Summer.

It wasn't business being done by clubs that failed to do what we needed in the Summer and clubs that have 10 players out of contract in the Summer and no players in the development squads that look nailed on ready to step up.

The nature of the buyout and the debts we now have to service are a new problem, but our poor recruitment has been a problem for the last 3-4 years. I would also argue that our poor recruitment performance actually played a big part in exposing us to a leveraged buyout.

Looking at all the things that happened I don't see Garlicks complete reluctance to spend and Dyches stubborn focus on a particular type of player being at the heart of our failed transfer business.

Garlick didn't hire Mike Rigg because he didn't want to spend on recruitment and he wanted somebody at the club he could ignore. I suspect he hired him because he saw that improving our recruitment was a way for us to move forward. The money that we made from selling players like Keane was the difference between us posting a profit and a loss on our balance sheet ( even with our PL income ).

Towards the end Dyche appeared to have very little say in our recruitment. He couldn't even convince the board to offer contracts to players that he wanted to retain, never mind influence new players he wanted us to sign.

For me, the problem was that out recruitment was hopeless. We had a pot of money to spend, To make our cash go further we decided to sign some veteran journeymen as free transfers. That left the bulk of our money free for chasing more expensive targets. Mike Rigg then picked out a host of unrealistic targets for us to chase after with our cash. We signed none of them. That left us needing to make urgent additions late in the window, so we signed more veteran journeymen to plug the gaps.

The outcome was we added more veterans to the squad and wage bill while we amassed a lot of money in the dry powder store. More importantly, the squad wasn't refreshed, the first eleven didn't improve and the future problems were made worse instead of better.

Garlick isn't daft, when ALK knocked on the door he probably took stock of things. The problems we are storing up have increased, the bloke that I hired to improve our recruitment doesn't seem to be up to the job, my relationship with the manger has completely broken down, myself and my family are being abused by the fans on social media and the other shareholders are all getting on a bit and that will create owners changes in the future. I also find it interesting to note that the back room environments at QPR and Fulham turned toxic over recruitment problems, and their managers found themselves out of the loop and at odds with their owners in the latter case, shortly after Rigg joined them.

Now, somebody wants to swell my personal bank account by £100m and free me of all this stress. Damn right I'm going to accept.

If it all goes tits up I can step in and resume control, after Pace and Co have taken all the flak for relegation and selling off the clubs assets to made do, taking on the role of saviour. Should things go really bad and the club finds itself in administration I can save it by back it off the administrators for pennies on the pound. If it all goes well the fans will say I did right by the club and I made a stack of cash.

In my personal opinion, the people at fault for our current predicament are Mike Rigg and the recruitment department. They stand at the centre of all the recent problems at the club. Pre Rigg we were doing reasonably well, building slowly and we had a bit of momentum. After he joined our momentum was sapped and we found ourselves standing still, then we started to slip backwards at an ever more rapid rate.

Orsic

[Winstonswhite]

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mislav- ... erein/3535

Zagreb - 169 games played with 6 as a right winger
Inter Zapresic - 90 games played with 8 on the right
Ulsan Hyunda - 70 games played with 4 on the right

So in the last few years of his career, out of a total of 329 games, he has played 18 times out on the right. It will seem that nobody at those clubs thought the position suited him or he didn't want to play there.

In terms of his national career, the Croation managers have never played him there.

It is fairly obvious that Orsic sees himself as an inverted left winger and so does every manager that he has played under.

A cash strapped club probably shouldn't set out to spend £7m signing a veteran player, in a lower tier league, on the basis that he might be able to do the job that needs doing. Signing a player who has proven themselves capable of doing the job that needs doing or a younger player that could be developed to do that job would make a lot more sense.

I’d argue that a cash strapped club HAS to try things that are slightly outside the box. Cornet was signed from a club playing him left back- he’s not doing too bad up top is he? The Ivory Coast manager is now playing hi there. Going back a few years Graham Alexander was playing as a right back for around 1543 games yet moved to midfield and we romped up the league.

You keep droning out these stats about this and that from transfrmarket but to me you sound exactly how Rigg was working. Try thinking for yourself for once.

[clarethomer]

I'm not sure where you are coming from. An important element of the Dunning Kruger hypothesis is the importance of objective performance markers.

Are you really implying that the people doubting the performance of our recruitment team over the past 3 to 4 years are mistaken in their beliefs ( or they are over estimating their own knowledge and judgement ) because they are questioning football professionals ?

In philosophical circles that is classed as a baseless appeal to authority.

However, for the sake of argument, let us consider your Dunning Kruger position and apply objective performance markers to it.

1 ) We have 10 veteran first team players out of contract at the end of this season.

2 ) We have little or no players coming through our development academy that could be expected to play a major part in first team PL next year. Most of the potential candidates are also out of contact at the end of this season.

3 ) The majority of our first eleven players were bought 3 or 4 years ago.

4 ) The majority of players we added to our academy over the last few years were turnstile players that didn't last a season.

5 ) In the past couple of seasons we had to put the kids on the bench just to fill it and play them in the last 10 minutes, not because they were up to the job, but simply to rest players.

6 ) For the second window in a row Pace has apparently been sat on a plane in an attempt to save our window. He must have contemplated the reality of - why am I being required to do this again, surely our recruitment can identify targets that don't result in a last minute flights.

7 ) Our inability to identify realistic targets resulting in no first eleven signings and the accumulation of £40m+ in our dry powder store that made a leveraged buyout possible.

8 ) Our previous technical direct had a devastatingly negative impact on all of his previous clubs - which can be supported with facts and evidence.

9 ) The majority of people Mike Rigg employed to oversee our new data driven scouting came from Middlesbrough. They were involved in a failed attempt to replicate the Brentford model - which saw them waste all of Middlesbrough's parachute money on poor turnstile signings that were secured by paying over the odds in transfer fees.

Would you like me to provide more objective performance markers or have I substantiated the belief shared by many on this forum that the poor performance of our recruitment department over the past 3 or 4 years is at the heart of our current problems ?

You need to just ask yourself how you decided those objective performance markers LTL - They look like facts that you can quote that confirm your views.

I'm not going to respond point by point but taking your first point. Factually correct and it may be the case, but you are missing the information that isn't public and what decisions/discussions/progress/agreements are in place that are not yet in the public forum. Just because you haven't heard anything, it doesn't mean we have 10 players out of contract at the end of the season. So basing your view of the club's performance on this point isn't a considered one as you are assuming that this has happened when it hasn't.

So that alone tells me that if you are basing the performance of someone/the club on an incomplete understanding of the situation.

Using facts as 'objective performance markers' and writing lots of words and then putting words like 'apparently' into them is another sign of something that demonstrates your bias overwhelming your ability to consider the situation fully and shows that you are not being objective, or critical in your thinking.

You are not recognising that actually doing what Pace/Dyche does is extremely difficult. Hands up- I can end up in this space at times. It's natural and I have to self-check myself when I pick up that Im being like that. Frustration takes over etc.

And you are right - your views confirm the BELIEF shared by others on this board and that just confirms my original point that people who try to claim their views as being factually correct are often guilty of failing to realise that their views are rarely driven from a true understanding of the situation.

[Long Time Lurker]

I’d argue that a cash strapped club HAS to try things that are slightly outside the box. Cornet was signed from a club playing him left back- he’s not doing too bad up top is he? The Ivory Coast manager is now playing hi there. Going back a few years Graham Alexander was playing as a right back for around 1543 games yet moved to midfield and we romped up the league.

You keep droning out these stats about this and that from transfrmarket but to me you sound exactly how Rigg was working. Try thinking for yourself for once.

And you sound like somebody who can't be bothered doing much research before making a statement.

Cornet has always been, first and foremost a winger or forward player. He started out on the right with Lyon. I'm guessing that his shift to the left was a consequence of Lyon and the Ivory Coast trying to play their best players, or biggest names, in their best positions. Cornet was then slotted into the gaps that were left.

During the 16/17 season Cornet mainly played on the right for Lyon. His only competition for that slot was Rachid Gezzel. Memphis Depay had the left slot of their 4-3-3 to himself for most of that season. Lyon looked very lean in terms of quality up front in that time period.

Fast forward to the 17/18 season and Lyon set about overhauling their forward line. Geubells and Maolida, a pair of left wingers, moved up from their U19 squad. They didn't really play much of a part though. More importantly they also signed Bertrand Traore and Mariano Diaz. Traore claimed ownership of the right sided slot, Diaz occupied the centre slot and Depay was their first choice on the left. Cornet was relegated to a backup role for both outer slots.

Then we reach the 18/19 season. Martin Terrier returns from a loan with Strasbourg and Dembele and Pintor are signed up. Over the course of the season Terrier became first choice on the left, Diaz missed most of the season through injury and Dembele was first choice in the centre with Depay as his backup. Traore remained as their first choice on the right. For the second season, Cornet was their first choice reserve for the left and right slots. Pintor wasn't given any game time, but he was only 18 at the time.

During the Summer transfer window of the 19/20 season Lyon concentrated their spending on their defence and central midfield areas. That left things in the wide areas up front little changed. Cornet did the same job as before. During the Winter window they signed Karl Toko Ekambi on a loan from Villareal. Ekambi played in the role of Centre Forward for most of the remaining matches, but he also played a couple of matches on the wings. Cornet was still the main deputy for the left and right wing slots, but Rayan Cherki also filled in on the right. This was the first season that Cornet played as a left back. After the injury to Yousouff Kone he stepped up and slotted in for a couple of matches, before Marcal returned from injury to take the spot.

Moving on to the 20/21 season and things shifted again at Lyon, but not in a way that benefitted the playing time of Cornet. Terrier moved to Stade Rennais and Traore was signed by Villa. The vacated left and right wing slots were filled by Ekambi and Tino Kadwere, who had returned from his loan at AC Havre. Cornet played the majority of his games at left back, serving as a backup on the left wing when needed. When the right wing needed cover Ekambi shifted over and Depay slotted in on the left.

So the positions that Cornet played in at Lyon were less about what he was most suited to doing and more about which gaps opened up that needed filling. His stint at left back probably had more to do with an absence of any outstanding candidates for that position than his own suitability. Hence their eagerness to sign Emerson. They experimented with Bard at the beginning of the season and it looks like they decided he wasn't up to starting in that role.

In respect to the Ivory Coast, it is a similar state of affairs. Zaha and Pepe are obviously the two first choice starters, left and right respectively. Cornet and Gradel are the two reserves, although I can't explain why Gradel started on the right the other day.

Trying to validate your position by claiming that we signed a left back who is now doing well up front is nonsense. Cornet is a forward player who filled in for a season and a bit at left back because the forward positions at Lyon were being taken by other players.

Had you claimed that we signed a winger / forward who is now doing well as a number 10 that would have made more sense. However, I don't think we signed him for that role. Judging from what has been said Dyche felt he needed to improve his defensive work to replace Dwight on the left and up front we had a slot that needed filling so we gave him a go and he is doing well.

People have complimented Cornet on his technical ability and movement, because those qualities are easy to notice, but few have recognised or complimented him on his flexibility and willingness to give it a go and play in a new position. Had you put in the work and done a tiny bit of research before posting an attempting to put me down you would also have noticed that.

You might also be one of those questioning why we are persisting with the idea of playing Dwight on the right when Cornet seems more suited to that position given his playing history.

[Taffy on the wing]

Yes pace out.

We are heading the route of Wigan, Derby, Bolton under this ownership.

The happy clappers won’t say anything until the buckets are out trying to save the club.

Yes......we'll give him the chance he deserves.....meanwhile you and yours will carry on whining like little bitches.

[boatshed bill]

And you sound like somebody who can't be bothered doing much research before making a statement.

Cornet has always been, first and foremost a winger or forward player. He started out on the right with Lyon. I'm guessing that his shift to the left was a consequence of Lyon and the Ivory Coast trying to play their best players, or biggest names, in their best positions. Cornet was then slotted into the gaps that were left.

During the 16/17 season Cornet mainly played on the right for Lyon. His only competition for that slot was Rachid Gezzel. Memphis Depay had the left slot of their 4-3-3 to himself for most of that season. Lyon looked very lean in terms of quality up front in that time period.

Fast forward to the 17/18 season and Lyon set about overhauling their forward line. Geubells and Maolida, a pair of left wingers, moved up from their U19 squad. They didn't really play much of a part though. More importantly they also signed Bertrand Traore and Mariano Diaz. Traore claimed ownership of the right sided slot, Diaz occupied the centre slot and Depay was their first choice on the left. Cornet was relegated to a backup role for both outer slots.

Then we reach the 18/19 season. Martin Terrier returns from a loan with Strasbourg and Dembele and Pintor are signed up. Over the course of the season Terrier became first choice on the left, Diaz missed most of the season through injury and Dembele was first choice in the centre with Depay as his backup. Traore remained as their first choice on the right. For the second season, Cornet was their first choice reserve for the left and right slots. Pintor wasn't given any game time, but he was only 18 at the time.

During the Summer transfer window of the 19/20 season Lyon concentrated their spending on their defence and central midfield areas. That left things in the wide areas up front little changed. Cornet did the same job as before. During the Winter window they signed Karl Toko Ekambi on a loan from Villareal. Ekambi played in the role of Centre Forward for most of the remaining matches, but he also played a couple of matches on the wings. Cornet was still the main deputy for the left and right wing slots, but Rayan Cherki also filled in on the right. This was the first season that Cornet played as a left back. After the injury to Yousouff Kone he stepped up and slotted in for a couple of matches, before Marcal returned from injury to take the spot.

Moving on to the 20/21 season and things shifted again at Lyon, but not in a way that benefitted the playing time of Cornet. Terrier moved to Stade Rennais and Traore was signed by Villa. The vacated left and right wing slots were filled by Ekambi and Tino Kadwere, who had returned from his loan at AC Havre. Cornet played the majority of his games at left back, serving as a backup on the left wing when needed. When the right wing needed cover Ekambi shifted over and Depay slotted in on the left.

So the positions that Cornet played in at Lyon were less about what he was most suited to doing and more about which gaps opened up that needed filling. His stint at left back probably had more to do with an absence of any outstanding candidates for that position than his own suitability. Hence their eagerness to sign Emerson. They experimented with Bard at the beginning of the season and it looks like they decided he wasn't up to starting in that role.

In respect to the Ivory Coast, it is a similar state of affairs. Zaha and Pepe are obviously the two first choice starters, left and right respectively. Cornet and Gradel are the two reserves, although I can't explain why Gradel started on the right the other day.

Trying to validate your position by claiming that we signed a left back who is now doing well up front is nonsense. Cornet is a forward player who filled in for a season and a bit at left back because the forward positions at Lyon were being taken by other players.

Had you claimed that we signed a winger / forward who is now doing well as a number 10 that would have made more sense. However, I don't think we signed him for that role. Judging from what has been said Dyche felt he needed to improve his defensive work to replace Dwight on the left and up front we had a slot that needed filling so we gave him a go and he is doing well.

People have complimented Cornet on his technical ability and movement, because those qualities are easy to notice, but few have recognised or complimented him on his flexibility and willingness to give it a go and play in a new position. Had you put in the work and done a tiny bit of research before posting an attempting to put me down you would also have noticed that.

You might also be one of those questioning why we are persisting with the idea of playing Dwight on the right when Cornet seems more suited to that position given his playing history.

Great research, but be careful.

[Elizabeth]

What is it ? Less than 6 months since the new season started and we have brought in 4 very good players .
Well done Alan , you are doing an excellent job

[Long Time Lurker]

You need to just ask yourself how you decided those objective performance markers LTL - They look like facts that you can quote that confirm your views.

I'm not going to respond point by point but taking your first point. Factually correct and it may be the case, but you are missing the information that isn't public and what decisions/discussions/progress/agreements are in place that are not yet in the public forum. Just because you haven't heard anything, it doesn't mean we have 10 players out of contract at the end of the season. So basing your view of the club's performance on this point isn't a considered one as you are assuming that this has happened when it hasn't.

You should have stopped at the beginning. The number of players we have that are out of contract at the end of this season is factual data.

You can't argue with it.

And you certainly can't argue with it from the position that " things may be going on that I don't know about ", because they would be " things " that you don't know about ". To claim that the factual contract data is incorrect because of things that are not known, on the strength of things that you don't know is ludicrous.

My point was made on the basis that we shouldn't be in a position were we have 10 players out of contract at one time. Surely that fact can't escape you as an example of bad forward thinking. To rule it out on the basis of " what might happen " is nonsense.

A stronger argument would have been that this might be part of a calculated plan that will allow us to offload and replace a lot of older high wage earners in one swoop should we get relegated.

However, I am open to counter arguments, so by all means provide me with objective performance markers that show our recruitment performance in the last 3 or 4 years has been good.

Oh, and please don't fall back on the league position and retaining our PL place argument, because that was done with a first 11 that was centered around players we signed more than 3 or 4 years ago.

[clarethomer]

You should have stopped at the beginning. The number of players we have that are out of contract at the end of this season is factual data.

You can't argue with it.

And you certainly can't argue with it from the position that " things may be going on that I don't know about ", because they would be " things " that you don't know about ". To claim that the factual contract data is incorrect because of things that are not known, on the strength of things that you don't know is ludicrous.

My point was made on the basis that we shouldn't be in a position were we have 10 players out of contract at one time. Surely that fact can't escape you as an example of bad forward thinking. To rule it out on the basis of " what might happen " is nonsense.

A stronger argument would have been that this might be part of a calculated plan that will allow us to offload and replace a lot of older high wage earners in one swoop should we get relegated.

However, I am open to counter arguments, so by all means provide me with objective performance markers that show our recruitment performance in the last 3 or 4 years has been good.

Oh, and please don't fall back on the league position and retaining our PL place argument, because that was done with a first 11 that was centered around players we signed more than 3 or 4 years ago.

Think you need to re-read my response and perhaps take a break from here rather than trying to tell others how they should make their points and what makes a better argument in your head.

It just makes you come across like you live in your head where you make the stories up to fit what makes sense to you.

I stated that factually you were correct around the 10 markers - not sure why you are claiming that I am trying to argue with you on that?

We have 10 players whose contracts expire this season is correct. What I have also said - albeit you may have not read it this way - is that you cannot say that this is a failure on the clubs part UNTIL we see the situation at the end of the season.

Your point appeared to suggest a failure of the club to have 10 players out of contract when WE don't know if that is the case yet in terms of what may have been going on behind the scenes. I accept that I don't know this information and I also accept and recognise that with this information I could conclude whether your assumptions/conclusion are right or not.

As I said, I'm not out to argue with you point by point. Its not good for the overall forum and I hate it where these threads get taken over by a small number of individuals trying to prove a point.

I understand why you draw the opinions that you do and we share the desire for the success of this club. I can however see you are unlikely to want to accept that your views merit further consideration with wider context and if you are not open to that, it's probably a good point to just agree to disagree.

I bid you a good evening.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Rigg has left and his weird stalker is still at it.

Wonder is Lurker has managed to get a club on his CV yet with his extensive portfolio of deals he could make, find it hard to believe every single one of the 92 ignore him

[RVclaret]

Rigg has left and his weird stalker is still at it.

Wonder is Lurker has managed to get a club on his CV yet with his extensive portfolio of deals he could make, find it hard to believe every single one of the 92 ignore him

I’ve been wondering how he has so much inside knowledge on what Rigg did…

All I’ve seen is him being credited in several articles for building up the European scouting network.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I’ve been wondering how he has so much inside knowledge on what Rigg did…

All I’ve seen is him being credited in several articles for building up the European scouting network.

He is a very odd one, he even went as far as claiming now that Rigg has left the whole club has moved on to a signing predominately Welsh players after signing Hennessey as a back up keeper and Roberts

[burnley007]

well, after being hugely slated for starting a discussion on the merits of our new ownership...it does seem to have been a good start to a discussion thread.

The problem in this country is that people get very cross and angry at anyone who has a different viewpoint to them, people are losing the ability to discuss and reason with each other.

I was absolutely furious on Monday night/Tuesday morning with our lack of recruitment, this does NOT mean I don't love Burnley or have somehow lost the right to call myself a Burnley fan. We all love the club, that's why we log into a BFC forum.

Please people start being more tolerant of other people's views, discuss things rather than name calling, it's just embarrassing.

[Jakubclaret]

well, after being hugely slated for starting a discussion on the merits of our new ownership...it does seem to have been a good start to a discussion thread.

The problem in this country is that people get very cross and angry at anyone who has a different viewpoint to them, people are losing the ability to discuss and reason with each other.

I was absolutely furious on Monday night/Tuesday morning with our lack of recruitment, this does NOT mean I don't love Burnley or have somehow lost the right to call myself a Burnley fan. We all love the club, that's why we log into a BFC forum.

Please people start being more tolerant of other people's views, discuss things rather than name calling, it's just embarrassing.

When people resort to that it’s best to ignore the argument is already lost, it’s looking like a lot of people have backed the wrong horse with the new ownership because i believe they’ll take us in 1 direction only & I mean lower than the championship, time will tell if I’m right.

[Boss Hogg]

What is it ? Less than 6 months since the new season started and we have brought in 4 very good players .
Well done Alan , you are doing an excellent job

‘Pace Out’ v the above. It’s neither of these extremes IMO. A ‘Pace Out’ thread is ridiculous at this stage. I’d say the jury is still out in many quarters but he is certainly getting some things right. This window has been a failure but this one window doesn’t define the new regime who need to be given more time.

[burnley007]

‘Pace Out’ v the above. It’s neither of these extremes IMO. A ‘Pace Out’ thread is ridiculous at this stage. I’d say the jury is still out in many quarters but he is certainly getting some things right. This window has been a failure but this one window doesn’t define the new regime who need to be given more time.

I totally agree, but I still think it's relevant to start these kind of debates, the window really was THAT bad. We have no right winger at the club, apart from the truly awful Lennon, (or sticking the plastic man out there, JBG), so to not address at least that problem is scandalous.

BUt I bloody love Burnley, questionning the running of the club is always going to happen, I'm certain that Mr Pace has very thick skin!

[Jakubclaret]

It’s the people criticising people asking valid questions & trying to shut down these threads & labelling concerned people as bed wetters that are the most damaging & a blight to the club.

[burnley007]

It’s the people criticising people asking valid questions & trying to shut down these threads & labelling concerned people as bed wetters that are the most damaging & a blight to the club.

I agree, that was my point.

It's a nationwide thing though, the whole country does it on everything now. Politics is now a total no-go in general conversation because people have really extreme views and totally intolerant of anyone else. It's scary.

Anyway, I apologise to Mr Pace, I was furious and wanted to see how others felt about it. I wasn't trying to start WW3!!!

[Jakubclaret]

I agree, that was my point.

It's a nationwide thing though, the whole country does it on everything now. Politics is now a total no-go in general conversation because people have really extreme views and totally intolerant of anyone else. It's scary.

Anyway, I apologise to Mr Pace, I was furious and wanted to see how others felt about it. I wasn't trying to start WW3!!!

I don’t think you should be apologising if anybody should be apologising it should be him explaining why in a good month we have failed to strengthen in key departments when we desperately needed to do so.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

So you've thrown out an inflammatory suggestion that Pace should cut the BS and maybe go, then complained when it's been argued against?

Kind of missing the point of the forum aren't you?