Italy v England

[Taffy on the wing]

Neither can I.

But I can understand folk being fed up with him when he's playing one of our best performing players this season in Saka, in the wrong position.

He likes to play everyone in their wrong position.....absolute Clown!

[warksclaret]

Huge amount of managers currently under pressure. Think Southgate has been found out , particularly by playing several players not currrently starting for their clubs, and players out of position

[KRBFC]

Saka and which ever of the two right backs were playing left back.

Saka was playing left wing back, a role he's played many times for Arsenal and we don't have many other options. Walker was at CB, James was at RB.

[Stayingup]

Dyche for England. Get this clown out!!!

[Rowls]

Not the result we wanted but I've seen enough tonight to convince me we have a real chance of winning the World Cup in Qatar.

Southgate has been a master at getting his England teams to peak when it matters and it feels like its gonna happen again.

When satire and reality collide:

For large parts of the game we played very well...

... I thought there were a lot of positives for us as a team tonight.

Lots of good individual performances. I personally thought the performance is a step in the right direction.

[Sproggy]

Saka was playing left wing back, a role he's played many times for Arsenal and we don't have many other options. Walker was at CB, James was at RB.

Yeah, 2 out of 3 out of position. Thanks for confirming.

[Vegas Claret]

Gareth Shitgate

[LeadBelly]

When satire and reality collide:

Yes that
"For large parts of the game we played very well...... I thought there were a lot of positives for us as a team tonight.
Lots of good individual performances. I personally thought the performance is a step in the right direction."

Is a classic case of delusion- especially the last bit.

[KRBFC]

Dyche for England. Get this clown out!!!

oh aye thrilling football then

[KRBFC]

Yeah, 2 out of 3 out of position. Thanks for confirming.

Are they really out of position if they've played there for club? sounds like an argument from someone with little knowledge. You probably thought Saka has never played left wing back for Arsenal before and Walker is listed at right back for City so must only play on the right.

[Ampth7]

Yes that
"For large parts of the game we played very well...... I thought there were a lot of positives for us as a team tonight.
Lots of good individual performances. I personally thought the performance is a step in the right direction."

Is a classic case of delusion- especially the last bit.

Wow! A step in the right direction? Now admittedly, I’m no football manager genius, but I literally don’t have a clue what he’s going on about with that comment. We were truly awful!!!

[LeadBelly]

BBC website punters' individual player scores range from (best to worst) Bellingham 5.92, Pope 5.5, Rice 4.9 down to...... Maguire 3.87, James 3.85, Walker 3.76, Saka 3.69, Sterling 3.39.
I think it's fair to say that's a bit of a panning.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63013396

[Spiral]

Over two-year tournament cycles, five games of international football is like playing roughly, what, a third of a league season if it were to be compared to club football? (This is more of a mood, not an exact comparison). These kind of stats and performances extrapolated over a third of a league season would see almost any manager sacked. The WC feels so inevitable: bore our way through the group sage, get knocked out at the first knock-out game, sack Southgate anyway. Why wait? If Germany is another performance like the others this year, I don't know how him staying on can be justified. The FA would never do it because they're inert cowards, but I'd be giving Jose a ring, see if he wants to take us to the WC. I don't think his ego would allow him to turn it down.

[bfcjg]

He should have been sacked after rhe World Cup semi when we went one up and oh no we sat back, revisit Euro final, go one up and sit back and totally f up in extra time and penalties.
That said safe pair of hands, gets to finals via easy draws,progresses in finals again due to easy draws so we either stick with a lucky dullard or we go for broke and either triumph or flop.

[Vegas Claret]

if someone like Pep had the talent we had on the pitch tonight we wouldn't be having one shot on goal. Southgateout

[Top Claret]

Southgate doesn't have the personality or the charisma to get the extra mile out of a team and needs to go now, not after the WC.

He had is chance in the Euros, blew it and should have been sacked then but the chumps gave him a new contract because he ticks the woke boxes

[timshorts]

BBC website punters' individual player scores range from (best to worst) Bellingham 5.92, Pope 5.5, Rice 4.9 down to...... Maguire 3.87, James 3.85, Walker 3.76, Saka 3.69, Sterling 3.39.
I think it's fair to say that's a bit of a panning.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63013396

The worst Italy player scored more than the best England player. And that includes Newcastle fans giving one a bad mark out of principle to somebody called gabbiadini.

You lost 1-0 away at Italy. Isn't there a bit of an overreaction here? They can't all have been that bad.

I think you probably need to be back in a group with malta and Gibraltar etc.

[Zlatan]

Who is out of position?

Maguire! He’s normally on the bench

[Buxtonclaret]

I'd have liked Southgate out after the WC
He should have gone after the Euros.
Our FA mandarins are historically gutless.
They've always placed more emphasis on a polite profile who doesn't shake their own comfortable little world.
Hell, it'll take them another 50 years yet, to get over appointing Fat Sam!

[CaptJohn]

I think that is the end for Pope. He's obviously nervous with the ball at his feet, as we know only too well, but those nerves were transmitted to the England defenders as well. It just didn't look or feel right and his only safe out ball is the long, hoof upfield. (I wasn't too impressed by the commentators words either about how he was OK at Burnley with that long ball out, tw*t) He's the best shot stopper in England by a mile but this lack of ball playing ability has ultimately cost him his starting place in the WC.

[Sproggy]

Are they really out of position if they've played there for club? sounds like an argument from someone with little knowledge. You probably thought Saka has never played left wing back for Arsenal before and Walker is listed at right back for City so must only play on the right.

Graham Branch played in goal once but he wasn't a goal keeper.

Both are playing on the right for their clubs this season, which is presumably the benchmark Southgate uses to select them - though with Maguire managing to get in despite his form this season, who knows? Probably you, by the sounds of it.

[Stayingup]

I think that is the end for Pope. He's obviously nervous with the ball at his feet, as we know only too well, but those nerves were transmitted to the England defenders as well. It just didn't look or feel right and his only safe out ball is the long, hoof upfield. (I wasn't too impressed by the commentators words either about how he was OK at Burnley with that long ball out, tw*t) He's the best shot stopper in England by a mile but this lack of ball playing ability has ultimately cost him his starting place in the WC.

To be fair to Pope he was trying to make throws from time to time but some of the players looked half asleep. But this philosophy of the keeper playing it out to the defenders on the edge of the box doesn't sit well or suit many teams and players. They have to be top players to play that way. Even the best like Man City can get caught out with it. A long punt can pay off aka Muric to Tella.

[yTib]

if southgate was sacked under suspicious and controversial circumstances would the saga be referred to as southgategate?

[Spijed]

Declan Rice seems to be woefully out of form compared to the player he was last season.

[Stayingup]

Is it Sean Dyche's time for England.? Why not he'll be better than Southgate.

[bfcjg]

His cunning post match disguise didn't fool anyone.

hqjoVmDKcKhEYzRJHyn3Kd.jpg (152.32 KiB) Viewed 1691 times

[AGENT_CLARET]

When he got the job he said he'd pick the players that were on form not thier club badge yet Maguire plays even though he's on the bench at Man utd and leaves the second best english forward on form Ivan Toney completely out of the team, with England its who you play for not how well you are playing, that's why we'll never win anything

[Rileybobs]

When he got the job he said he'd pick the players that were on form not thier club badge yet Maguire plays even though he's on the bench at Man utd and leaves the second best english forward on form Ivan Toney completely out of the team, with England its who you play for not how well you are playing, that's why we'll never win anything

Southgate picks the best players to suit his system regardless of who they play for. Why would he select players based on the club they play for? That would serve him no purpose. It’s arguments like this, and comments about him being woke and a box ticker which just reduces the discussion to a level where it becomes pointless.

As for Toney, he’s not going to improve England. And the fact that people are upset that he didn’t get a game prove my point that this England team isn’t as awash with talent as many claim.

[Rileybobs]

FWIW, I wholeheartedly agree that Southgate should move on after this World Cup - but let’s not make out like his time as England manager has been a failure.

[AGENT_CLARET]

Southgate picks the best players to suit his system regardless of who they play for. Why would he select players based on the club they play for? That would serve him no purpose. It’s arguments like this, and comments about him being woke and a box ticker which just reduces the discussion to a level where it becomes pointless.

As for Toney, he’s not going to improve England. And the fact that people are upset that he didn’t get a game prove my point that this England team isn’t as awash with talent as many claim.

Sorry Gareth

[taio]

Bizarre selections and tactics. Dreadful to watch once again. Southgate isn't good enough.

[Rileybobs]

Sorry Gareth

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

[MrTopTier]

There is no benefit to keeping him on for the World Cup.

Pot him after the Germany game.

It’s gone stale and the evidence is there to see.

Lack of goals
Players playing in different positions.
Players playing who are out of form.
An inflexible system.

Sound familiar

A fresh voice is required. Short term for the World Cup, bring in Pochetino.

[bobinho]

“Moving in the right direction”…. What a statement that is. This group of players should already be at the destination, not moving in the right direction. The best group of attacking players in over a generation, stifled into playing “don’t lose” football by a man so beige they modelled wallpaper off him in the ‘70’s.

Pep or Klopp in charge and we’re European champions, and all of us to a man convinced we are going to win the WC. Instead we have GS, a man who can’t manage the game he grew up playing, let alone the game he wants to reinvent it to.

GS is an utter buffoon. Anyone on here could walk into that england dressing room and get more out of this lot simply by saying “go and enjoy yourselves lads”.

Win the WC? As it is, we may get lucky and get out of the group…

[Murger]

As I said further up, Southgates brand of football won’t work in the heat.
And **** knows what Rice was on about. ‘We controlled the game’. Clown.

[burnleymik]

FWIW, I wholeheartedly agree that Southgate should move on after this World Cup - but let’s not make out like his time as England manager has been a failure.

We had one of the easiest runs to a WC final we would ever get and fell at the hurdle of the first decent opposition.

That said it's the performances right now that are of a concern. We go into a major tournament playing like this and we have no chance. There is far too much talent to be playing as badly as we have been.

[RVclaret]

As I said further up, Southgates brand of football won’t work in the heat.
And **** knows what Rice was on about. ‘We controlled the game’. Clown.

Not once were England in control of that game.

Worrying that he’s saying that, sounds very Southgatey.

[pureclaret]

There is no benefit to keeping him on for the World Cup.

Pot him after the Germany game.

It’s gone stale and the evidence is there to see.

Lack of goals
Players playing in different positions.
Players playing who are out of form.
An inflexible system.

Sound familiar

A fresh voice is required. Short term for the World Cup,

Mike Jackson just for the world cup wins it comes back as Vini's number 2

[elwaclaret]

I remember several posters being shouted down during the Euro’s when they pointed out Southgate’s England were not the world beaters their place in the final suggested… he’s now got the World Cup to sort it out, I guess.

I will not be expecting any more than I was when it became clear his ‘form players and youth play’ was nothing more than a route to buying long term backing. Long term backing is great if it is the right man.

[Devils_Advocate]

We had one of the easiest runs to a WC final we would ever get and fell at the hurdle of the first decent opposition.

You could say the same about 1990 where the only team we beat in 90 mins was Egypt and that was a struggle yet Bobby Robson was seen as a hero for getting us to the semi"s

[Notsosuperstevedavis]

When you look at the players he has available to him:

getting relegated from Nations League,
no goal for 7+ hours,
getting drubbed 4-0 off Hungary.
Playing players out of position….

So in summary,

We cant score
We cant defend
We dont show any attacking intent until we’re losing
Fans describe performances as dross.

Then when questioned about it, it becomes all about 100% blatent ass covering with statements like

‘We’ll take the positives’
‘It was better than last time out’

No acknowledgement of the absolute dire situation we’re seemingly in and no resolve to admit to fault or require correction.

I’ve long been of the opinion that Southgate, just like Dyche has attempted to break football by being the first team to get 3pts for a 0-0 and walk away delighted.

We will be absolutely shocking this world cup. I’m dreading it already. Southgate must be hanging on by a thread at the moment.

Genuinely feel sorry for our elite players that have to endure this. Another world cup opportunity missed and they’ll all be 4 years older the next time round.

[bobinho]

Not once were England in control of that game.

Worrying that he’s saying that, sounds very Southgatey.

It is. It’s bordering on brainwashing. GS walking into that dressing room and telling them what he told us is absolutely disgraceful.
It’s akin to Anthony Joshua’s cornerman telling him he won that round, when everyone else on the planet chalked the round up for usyk. Joshua then thinks he’s done enough to win the fight when he clearly hadn’t. Post match we get Rice repeating the drivel fed to him by his manager, and believing it. It’s very poor management from Southgate.

[jrgbfc]

I'd like to see Tomori given a chance at centre back. He's had the balls to leave his comfort zone and go and play in a different country, which is rare for English players.
He plays every week for Milan, and he's got a bit of pace which would reduce the need to pick Kyle Walker.

[Rileybobs]

“Moving in the right direction”…. What a statement that is. This group of players should already be at the destination, not moving in the right direction. The best group of attacking players in over a generation, stifled into playing “don’t lose” football by a man so beige they modelled wallpaper off him in the ‘70’s.

Pep or Klopp in charge and we’re European champions, and all of us to a man convinced we are going to win the WC. Instead we have GS, a man who can’t manage the game he grew up playing, let alone the game he wants to reinvent it to.

GS is an utter buffoon. Anyone on here could walk into that england dressing room and get more out of this lot simply by saying “go and enjoy yourselves lads”.

Win the WC? As it is, we may get lucky and get out of the group…

Pep and Klopp are better coaches than Gareth Southgate??? Hold the front page.

[DCWat]

Seems a genuinely decent bloke and he has done some things right. I’d love it to work for him but I just don’t think he’s got what it takes to allow us to take that final big step.

Our strengths are, or were, more offensive. The focus however seems to be on defensive stability, which isn’t really working. I’m not suggesting he should go gung his, I do though think he struggles to find the right balance, which would allow our attacking players to flourish.

It’s been said many times - his biggest issue is in game management. He can’t or is unwilling to react to what is going on, on the pitch. That is a big concern.

[daveisaclaret]

I think what's really clear is that England could win the World Cup and a great number of people would be falling over themselves to explain why it doesn't really count. They will not however be able to explain who "yes man" Gareth Southgate is actually saying yes to.

[Colburn_Claret]

Southgate picks the best players to suit his system regardless of who they play for. Why would he select players based on the club they play for? That would serve him no purpose. It’s arguments like this, and comments about him being woke and a box ticker which just reduces the discussion to a level where it becomes pointless.

As for Toney, he’s not going to improve England. And the fact that people are upset that he didn’t get a game prove my point that this England team isn’t as awash with talent as many claim.

Could you enlighten us as to what his system is, because I'm buggered if I know, and it looks like the players don't know either.
He's gone back on everything he said when he got the job, and last nights performance was the result.

[Colburn_Claret]

Another issue is you can't fix anything when you can't see you've got a problem. Those post match comments were even more frightening than the performance.

[Swizzlestick]

I’ll reserve judgement until after the World Cup which he absolutely deserves a shot at. Southgate has his faults but the people going to great lengths to downplay the fact we reached the semi final and final of the World Cup and Euros is almost perverse.

[Spijed]

I think what's really clear is that England could win the World Cup and a great number of people would be falling over themselves to explain why it doesn't really count. They will not however be able to explain who "yes man" Gareth Southgate is actually saying yes to.

I think the reason most don't take Southgate seriously as a manager is that he'd done absolutely nothing to merit getting the England job.