Southgate to stay

[Tribesmen]

I said before the tournament started he should have been potted. The form coming into the tournament was poor.

We didn’t change anything. We failed again. Three tournaments in a row where we had a decent chance and failed each time.

The sad part of this is that the FA looked at the women’s game and said what can we do with a team that has failed.
Answer bring in the best coach they can and change the mentality. Result a Euros win.

The same opportunity presents itself now and they do nothing. Another opportunity missed. England in a nutshell.

England were not good enough simple really as everyone said they would be knocked out in the last 16 or 8 and they were .
The only thing that shocked me that it wasn't on pens .

[bobinho]

Turns out we "won" the fair play trophy....

No doubt that will go down as ANOTHER success...

[Devils_Advocate]

I hadn't seen that and yes that is definitely a success and something to be proud of. I believe the BBC have introduced a couple of new categories for SPOTY awards (Wokey of the Year and Woke Team of the Year) and I reckon Sir Gareth and his England team are big favourites to win them.

[Rowls]

I hadn't seen that and yes that is definitely a success and something to be proud of. I believe the BBC have introduced a couple of new categories for SPOTY awards (Wokey of the Year and Woke Team of the Year) and I reckon Sir Gareth and his England team are big favourites to win them.

The unwavering support for Southgate from novelty accounts like yours speaks volumes DA.

[MrTopTier]

Turns out we "won" the fair play trophy....

No doubt that will go down as ANOTHER success...

Apparently a story doing the rounds was that if there were 3 sendings off per side in the 3/4 playoff and the final and the games got abandoned.Then we would have won the World Cup.

[MrTopTier]

England were not good enough simple really as everyone said they would be knocked out in the last 16 or 8 and they were .
The only thing that shocked me that it wasn't on pens .

I disagree I think they are good enough. At 1-1 we were all over France. Then we took off the best players and lost the game. That responsibility falls on Southgate. Passive against Croatia and Italy in the previous semi and final also cost us. With a better Manager we should have won a trophy.

[Devils_Advocate]

I disagree I think they are good enough. At 1-1 we were all over France. Then we took off the best players and lost the game. That responsibility falls on Southgate. Passive against Croatia and Italy in the previous semi and final also cost us. With a better Manager we should have won a trophy.

Thats strange as England didnt make a single substitution whilst the game was 1-1. Southgate made the changes when France went ahead and but for Kane skying his penalty his changes would have worked to get us back in the game.

Its hard to take some peoples criticism seriously when they ignore reality and just make up what happened to suit their pre-conceived viewpoint.

[MrTopTier]

Thats strange as England didnt make a single substitution whilst the game was 1-1. Southgate made the changes when France went ahead and but for Kane skying his penalty his changes would have worked to get us back in the game.

Its hard to take some peoples criticism seriously when they ignore reality and just make up what happened to suit their pre-conceived viewpoint.

As opposed to you who just makes nonsense up on a daily basis.

[MrTopTier]

I hadn't seen that and yes that is definitely a success and something to be proud of. I believe the BBC have introduced a couple of new categories for SPOTY awards (Wokey of the Year and Woke Team of the Year) and I reckon Sir Gareth and his England team are big favourites to win them.

Here’s an example. A dull troll.

[MrTopTier]

1-1 2-1 He took Saka the player of the match, the player who was causing all the problems.

[Devils_Advocate]

He made a change after going behind and we got ourselves a penalty to get back in the game so sounds like his subs did the trick. If its trolling to point out you talking rubbish then im guilty but you said he made changes when it was 1-1 which he didnt.

There is a world of difference between taking off players when we are level and playing well than making changes after going behind to try and push for an equalizer

[Rileybobs]

1-1 2-1 He took Saka the player of the match, the player who was causing all the problems.

The double substitution was a reaction to going behind with just 12 minutes of the game remaining. It worked, because Mount won a penalty which if converted would have taken us to extra time. This is a lot different to had Southgate made the change at 1-1 when we were on top so you’ve rightly been pulled up for it.

England have a lot of forward options so Saka and Foden were both always likely to make way at some point in the game. I can guarantee that if Southgate hadn’t made this substitutions then he would have been hammered by the same people.

[Rileybobs]

Hadn’t seen DA’s post which makes exactly the same points.

[Devils_Advocate]

The double substitution was a reaction to going behind with just 12 minutes of the game remaining. It worked, because Mount won a penalty which if converted would have taken us to extra time. This is a lot different to had Southgate made the change at 1-1 when we were on top so you’ve rightly been pulled up for it.

England have a lot of forward options so Saka and Foden were both always likely to make way at some point in the game. I can guarantee that if Southgate hadn’t made this substitutions then he would have been hammered by the same people.

^^^^^Dull Troll Pointing Out Facts Alert^^^^^

[MrTopTier]

He made a change after going behind and we got ourselves a penalty to get back in the game so sounds like his subs did the trick. If its trolling to point out you talking rubbish then im guilty but you said he made changes when it was 1-1 which he didnt.

There is a world of difference between taking off players when we are level and playing well than making changes after going behind to try and push for an equalizer

Like I said 1-1, 2-1 it doesn’t really matter he took the best player off the pitch. Would Messi or Mbappe been hooked in similar position.

As for talking rubbish, the majority of your posts are just. Congratulations on engaging in making your point on this thread without being troll like.

[Rileybobs]

^^^^^Dull Troll Pointing Out Facts Alert^^^^^

Hey, I’m not a troll.

[MrTopTier]

I hadn't seen that and yes that is definitely a success and something to be proud of. I believe the BBC have introduced a couple of new categories for SPOTY awards (Wokey of the Year and Woke Team of the Year) and I reckon Sir Gareth and his England team are big favourites to win them.

Dull troll post alert.

[Devils_Advocate]

Like I said 1-1, 2-1 it doesn’t really matter he took the best player off the pitch. Would Messi or Mbappe been hooked in similar position.

As for talking rubbish, the majority of your posts are just. Congratulations on engaging in making your point on this thread without being troll like.

I though Deschamps was being lauded for taking off their start striker off where as Southgate wouldnt have the courage to take off Kane. Now we're criticising Southgate for having the courage to take off our star player which effectively changed the game to get us a penalty.

It just seems to be a trait of Southgates detractors that they start off with an opinion and bend the facts to suit that opinion. Call me old fashioned (or a dull troll) but Im a firm believer of letting the facts shape my opinion rather than the other way around

[MrTopTier]

Semi Final v Croatia should have won
Final v Italy should have won
Quarter Final v France should have won.

Obviously not the facts you would like, but feel free to argue it differently.

[Rileybobs]

Semi Final v Croatia should have won
Final v Italy should have won
Quarter Final v France should have won.

Obviously not the facts you would like, but feel free to argue it differently.

Obviously if you think we should win every game we play you will inevitably be disappointed.

[MrTopTier]

The other point you make about being a Southgate detractor.

I wasn’t, I was pleased he got the job, progression and continuity from the under 21’s. To get to a semi and then a final big achievements. This was a tournament too far and the next Euros will be like watching the Dyche era come to an end.

[Devils_Advocate]

Semi Final v Croatia should have won
Final v Italy should have won
Quarter Final v France should have won.

Obviously not the facts you would like, but feel free to argue it differently.

They're opinions not facts but at least Im now starting to see where the problem is

[CoolClaret]

Semi Final v Croatia should have won
Final v Italy should have won
Quarter Final v France should have won.

Obviously not the facts you would like, but feel free to argue it differently.

I agree.

We were the better team in each of those games and to be 0/3 is a big indictment on the manager, imo.

Now, I don’t expect to win every game or anything like that but at least one or two of them, where I believe we were letdown by pregame tactics & ingame management

[MrTopTier]

Obviously if you think we should win every game we play you will inevitably be disappointed.

I don’t.

[MrTopTier]

They're opinions not facts but at least Im now starting to see where the problem is

Of course they are. They only highlight the fact we haven’t won anything under Gareth, who you are happy to champion.

[Rileybobs]

I don’t.

So if you expected us to win the three highest profile games that we’ve lost under Southgate, which games have you expected us not to win?

[MrTopTier]

So if you expected us to win the three highest profile games that we’ve lost under Southgate, which games have you expected us not to win?

I didn’t say I expected us to win all those three games. I said we should have won them.

[Rileybobs]

I didn’t say I expected us to win all those three games. I said we should have won them.

Ok, so I’ll rephrase. If you think we should have won the three highest profile games that we’ve lost under Southgate, which games do you think we shouldn’t have won?

[Devils_Advocate]

Of course they are. They only highlight the fact we haven’t won anything under Gareth, who you are happy to champion.

We didnt win anything under Bobby Robson, Terry Venables and Sven but I'll credit them for being successful to a certain degree just like I do with Southgate.

[MrTopTier]

We didnt win anything under Bobby Robson, Terry Venables and Sven but I'll credit them for being successful to a certain degree just like I do with Southgate.

Ultimately Success in sport is about Winning, in my opinion.
None of the above won anything for England. Fact

[Devils_Advocate]

Ultimately Success in sport is about Winning, in my opinion.
None of the above won anything for England. Fact

That is a fact but if you dont think Burnley coming 7th was a successful season then I think we just view football and success through a very different lens

[Greenmile]

We didnt win anything under Bobby Robson, Terry Venables and Sven but I'll credit them for being successful to a certain degree just like I do with Southgate.

Or Walter Winterbottom, Joe Mercer, Ron Greenwood, Graham Taylor, Glenn Hoddle, Howard Wilkinson, Peter Taylor, Steve McLaren, Fabio Capello, Stuart Pearce, Roy Hodgson, or Sam Allardyce.

It’s almost like “winning something” is a ludicrous standard to hold any England manager to, isn’t it?

[MrTopTier]

Or Walter Winterbottom, Joe Mercer, Ron Greenwood, Graham Taylor, Glenn Hoddle, Howard Wilkinson, Peter Taylor, Steve McLaren, Fabio Capello, Stuart Pearce, Roy Hodgson, or Sam Allardyce.

It’s almost like “winning something” is a ludicrous standard to hold any England manager to, isn’t it?

Not really.

[Greenmile]

Not really.

well, that's me told

[MrTopTier]

That is a fact but if you dont think Burnley coming 7th was a successful season then I think we just view football and success through a very different lens

We are talking about England, but happy to blur the lines for you.

Burnley coming 7th of course is successful.

Very happy to view football differently to a Leeds fan.

As for success that’s personal to the individual, you see the last 56 years of English failure differently to me. I can live with that.

[Rileybobs]

We are talking about England, but happy to blur the lines for you.

Burnley coming 7th of course is successful.

Very happy to view football differently to a Leeds fan.

As for success that’s personal to the individual, you see the last 56 years of English failure differently to me. I can live with that.

You think England should win every game they play, so your bar for success is unrealistic. But it’s yours to live with.

[MrTopTier]

You think England should win every game they play, so your bar for success is unrealistic. But it’s yours to live with.

Err no I don’t.

[Rileybobs]

Err no I don’t.

So can you answer my question as to which games under Southgate we shouldn’t have won?

[KRBFC]

If Southgate gets a job or jobs after England we'll see just how good he is at managing.

Until then, this is just hot air.

You're just waffling irrelevant things, clinging onto a season 15 years ago to judge Southgate, how about judge him on the current job he's done as England manager.....

Do we now judge managers only based on the job they did 15 years ago and forget what they are currently doing? So we completely forget the job Dyche did at Burnley, we only focus on the 6 average months he had at Watford.

How does that make any logical sense?

[MrTopTier]

Denmark in the Euros. How far do you want me to go back?

[Devils_Advocate]

We are talking about England, but happy to blur the lines for you.

Burnley coming 7th of course is successful.

Very happy to view football differently to a Leeds fan.

As for success that’s personal to the individual, you see the last 56 years of English failure differently to me. I can live with that.

You stated this

Ultimately Success in sport is about Winning, in my opinion.

You recent post recognises that its not quite as black and white as you first stated and that things should be judged in a bit more context.

Id say England reaching a final of a major tournament for the first time in over half a century should be judged as a success.

You can obviously disagree but if you simply state your reason for this is that success in sport is about winning then by that logic Burnley finishing 7th was not a success

[MrTopTier]

Getting to a final is a success only if you win it

Happy for you to view England’s “successes” in your way.

England’s 56 years of failure continues and will continue.

[Rileybobs]

Denmark in the Euros. How far do you want me to go back?

But surely Denmark were a weaker opposition than France, Italy and Croatia were?

[elwaclaret]

You stated this



You recent post recognises that its not quite as black and white as you first stated and that things should be judged in a bit more context.

Id say England reaching a final of a major tournament for the first time in over half a century should be judged as a success.

You can obviously disagree but if you simply state your reason for this is that success in sport is about winning then by that logic Burnley finishing 7th was not a success

But that surely depends on expectation. I did not expect Burnley to finish top half… so doing so was success. I am told every competition England are world beaters, so not being makes them failures.

I am not surprised of disappointed by Southgate staying on… he’s perfect for those in the Ivory Towers of the FA, one of their own and will not rock the boat. I still hope his division one ability as manager will be overcome by the quality he has at his disposal… but I certainly don’t expect it.

[Rileybobs]

But that surely depends on expectation. I did not expect Burnley to finish top half… so doing so was success. I am told every competition England are world beaters, so not being makes them failures.

I am not surprised of disappointed by Southgate staying on… he’s perfect for those in the Ivory Towers of the FA, one of their own and will not rock the boat. I still hope his division one ability as manager will be overcome by the quality he has at his disposal… but I certainly don’t expect it.

Division one ability?

[Devils_Advocate]

But that surely depends on expectation. I did not expect Burnley to finish top half… so doing so was success. I am told every competition England are world beaters, so not being makes them failures.

This the exact point I was making. If you believed the people who kept telling you England are world beaters to the point that when we were a penalty shoot out away from winning the Euro's you considered us failures then thats on you.

Im able to make up my own mind on these kind of things and I can see what we've achieved across the last 6 years is better than anything we've seen since '66

[elwaclaret]

Division one ability?

Yep, really don’t rate him much higher than I did when he was potted by Middlesbrough. He has been very very lucky to have taken over just as massive investment in the national team brought through a golden generation. He has a squad of players that Bobby Robson would have killed for, and his England record wasn’t bad.

[Rileybobs]

Yep, really don’t rate him much higher than I did when he was potted by Middlesbrough. He has been very very lucky to have taken over just as massive investment in the national team brought through a golden generation. He has a squad of players that Bobby Robson would have killed for, and his England record wasn’t bad.

You’re saying a manager who has taken a team to a World Cup semi final and a European championship final has ‘division one ability’. Do you realise how ridiculous that is? This is an example of how pointless having this conversation is with some of you. I thought you were known for your reasoning?

[Swizzlestick]

I only have to reiterate my point above about the term ‘golden generation’ because it’s been bandied about a few times now - what is this based on? How many world class players are in this England squad?

[Rileybobs]

I only have to reiterate my point above about the term ‘golden generation’ because it’s been bandied about a few times now - what is this based on? How many world class players are in this England squad?

Southgate gets to choose players from the golden generation such as Mason Mount whereas Bobby Robson had to make do with Paul Gascoigne.