Spanish Football Chief : Should He Resign?

[ksrclaret]

And yours and others complete overreaction to it makes me fear for the future of society. Firstly I never said I agreed with it and said it was ill advised.

But the suggestions of it being creepy and calling it sexualt assault are way over the top and exactly my point that everything has to be made drama these days.

It was an over exuberant and ill advised peck on the lips done in full view of everyone watching. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to get over themselves and come into the real world where there are far worse atrocities happening every minute of every day.

I just hope society does change by the time my daughter enters it on her own because right now I'm scared that she will be assaulted whilst others defend it and say it's been blown out of proportion.

[Greenmile]

Expand on the deeply worrying, I’m intrigued to understand what you’re implying here.

I’m implying that I wouldn’t want to live in a world where people think sexual assault may be acceptable, given a particular set of “mitigating factors”.

[taio]

Inappropriate behaviour but I'm not worried about my daughter because of it.

[Firthy]

I just hope society does change by the time my daughter enters it on her own because right now I'm scared that she will be assaulted whilst others defend it and say it's been blown out of proportion.

Nobody on here has defended it. We just have a different viewpoint on the seriousness of it and calling those that disagree with you creepy and trying to make your point by bringing your child into it says far more about you than them.

[ksrclaret]

Nobody on here has defended it. We just have a different viewpoint on the seriousness of it and calling those that disagree with you creepy and trying to make your point by bringing your child into it says far more about you than them.

I’ve seen lots defend it.

You and they are entitled to your views and I’m entitled to call it creepy and reference that I’m worried for my daughter.

[turbo5]

How does Creepy Joe Biden the serial sniffer/kisser/grabber of women and kids survive and he is the president of the USA.
Plenty of actual footage (evidence) and even complaints about his behaviour
Lucy Flores, a former Democratic nominee for lieutenant governor in Nevada even complained about it where he sniffed her hair then planted a long lingering kiss to the back of her head.
Definitely wouldn't want him near my daughter

[AlargeClaret]

It was very ill advised, Inappropriate and a bit gross ,and in this day and age of easy offence it’s certainly 100% sackable gross misconduct “offence”.I’d imagine he’ll be gone before sunset. He also also looks a bit creepy hugging and kissing the other players as well .
The left are all over this though they have a very reasonable point .

[Accrington claret]

No !

[basil6345789]

I've not seen this. Is she pretty?

No, she should feel flattered. She was laughing about it at the time.

[ksrclaret]

Inappropriate behaviour but I'm not worried about my daughter because of it.

Me neither because she’ll never meet him.

I am worried that people defend “inappropriate behaviour” though.

[taio]

Me neither because she’ll never meet him.

I am worried that people defend “inappropriate behaviour” though.

I'm sure your daughter will be fine thankfully

[AlargeClaret]

I’ve seen lots defend it.

You and they are entitled to your views and I’m entitled to call it creepy and reference that I’m worried for my daughter.

While I agree with your standpoint , it’s a rather queasy creepy incident and shouldn’t be condoned by anyone . But to be “ worried for your daughter “ because of it ?? Because some sleazy Spanish official inappropriately kissed a footballer at the WWC final ?

[Venkys4eva]

No, she should feel flattered. She was laughing about it at the time.

Feel flattered? Really?

[Greenmile]

While I agree with your standpoint , it’s a rather queasy creepy incident and shouldn’t be condoned by anyone . But to be “ worried for your daughter “ because of it ?? Because some sleazy Spanish official inappropriately kissed a footballer at the WWC final ?

I suspect it’s the reaction from a few on here - downplaying it and suggesting folk are over-reacting - which makes him worried for his daughter, rather than the act itself.

Statistically, his daughter is far less unlikely to be sexually assaulted by a Spanish official than by someone on here who thinks it’s an acceptable thing to do, or who may bring up their sons to believe the same.

[ksrclaret]

While I agree with your standpoint , it’s a rather queasy creepy incident and shouldn’t be condoned by anyone . But to be “ worried for your daughter “ because of it ?? Because some sleazy Spanish official inappropriately kissed a footballer at the WWC final ?

No, I’m not worried because of one man but because people still defend behaviour like that.

[Accrington claret]

No !

[ksrclaret]

I'm sure your daughter will be fine thankfully

I hope so but until “inappropriate behaviour” is rooted out its not sure

[Firthy]

I suspect it’s the reaction from a few on here - downplaying it and suggesting folk are over-reacting - which makes him worried for his daughter, rather than the act itself.

Statistically, his daughter is far less unlikely to be sexually assaulted by a Spanish official than by someone on here who thinks it’s an acceptable thing to do, or who may bring up their sons to believe the same.

Wow just wow. Those on here who disagree with the seriousness of it are sexual predators and will bring their sons up the same. Just proved my point about overreaction.

[Greenmile]

Wow just wow. Those on here who disagree with the seriousness of it are sexual predators and will bring their sons up the same. Just proved my point about overreaction.

“May” =/= “will”

Somebody’s bringing up these sexual predators. Do you think it’s more likely to be the folk who call out sexual assault when they see it, or the folk who insist it’s all just an “overreaction”?

[DCWat]

“Sexual assault is where one person intentionally touches another person sexually without their consent. The touching can be done with any part of the body or with an object.”

https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/sexual-offences

I’d suggest what he did was inappropriate as opposed to sexual assault, based solely on the above (notwithstanding my argument around the celebratory nature of the events and the hugs / cheek kisses before and after the brief lip kiss).

Worth adding though, and contrary to the position I’ve taken, whilst having a Google, I noted an article that stated in 2020 clarification was made that ‘sexual intent’ does not need to be proven.

Greenmile: “Do you think it’s more likely to be the folk who call out sexual assault when they see it, or the folk who insist it’s all just an “overreaction”?”

I reckon you’re equally as likely as I am to commit sexual assault - we’ve taken a different stand on this subject but please do not suggest you are less likely to commit such an act - that is not correct.

[Big Vinny K]

The left are all over this though they have a very reasonable point .

You just could not resist bringing your views on left wingers, wokes, cancel culture etc into this could you ?

[Greenmile]

“Sexual assault is where one person intentionally touches another person sexually without their consent. The touching can be done with any part of the body or with an object.”

https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/sexual-offences

I’d suggest what he did was inappropriate as opposed to sexual assault, based solely on the above (notwithstanding my argument around the celebratory nature of the events and the hugs / cheek kisses before and after the brief lip kiss).

Worth adding though, and contrary to the position I’ve taken, whilst having a Google, I noted an article that stated in 2020 clarification was made that ‘sexual intent’ does not need to be proven.

Greenmile: “Do you think it’s more likely to be the folk who call out sexual assault when they see it, or the folk who insist it’s all just an “overreaction”?”

I reckon you’re equally as likely as I am to commit sexual assault - we’ve taken a different stand on this subject but please do not suggest you are less likely to commit such an act - that is not correct.

The fact you don’t think kissing someone on the lips without their consent is sexual assault suggests that you are more likely to kiss someone on the lips without their consent (or raise sons who do the same) than someone who recognises that it is sexual assault.

This is not in any way a comment on your character - it’s just logic. If you don’t think something is a crime, you’re more likely to commit that crime than someone who does.

[Volvoclaret]

To give peace of mind I'm thinking of starting a crowd fund to pay for future protection of ksrclarets daughter.

[Firthy]

“May” =/= “will”

Somebody’s bringing up these sexual predators. Do you think it’s more likely to be the folk who call out sexual assault when they see it, or the folk who insist it’s all just an “overreaction”?

Neither. The thread is about should he be sacked for it. Some of us don't and some do. Different generations and different values probably. Let's just leave it at that.

[RicardoMontalban]

“Sexual assault is where one person intentionally touches another person sexually without their consent. The touching can be done with any part of the body or with an object.”

https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/sexual-offences

I’d suggest what he did was inappropriate as opposed to sexual assault, based solely on the above (notwithstanding my argument around the celebratory nature of the events and the hugs / cheek kisses before and after the brief lip kiss).

Worth adding though, and contrary to the position I’ve taken, whilst having a Google, I noted an article that stated in 2020 clarification was made that ‘sexual intent’ does not need to be proven.

Greenmile: “Do you think it’s more likely to be the folk who call out sexual assault when they see it, or the folk who insist it’s all just an “overreaction”?”

I reckon you’re equally as likely as I am to commit sexual assault - we’ve taken a different stand on this subject but please do not suggest you are less likely to commit such an act - that is not correct.

From the charity Rape Crisis UK “Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner without their consent. Or when someone makes another person take part in a sexual activity with them without that person's consent. It includes unwanted kissing and sexual touching.”

Perhaps we as men should not be so quick to define what is and isn’t sexual assault.

[Jakubclaret]

The general theme of the thread seems to be based upon sensational overreactions, I can't recall 1 poster saying it's acceptable behaviour & some have rightly called it out for what it is & others are trying to make a 4 course meal out of a light snack.

[DCWat]

The fact you don’t think kissing someone on the lips without their consent is sexual assault suggests that you are more likely to kiss someone on the lips without their consent (or raise sons who do the same) than someone who recognises that it is sexual assault.

This is not in any way a comment on your character - it’s just logic. If you don’t think something is a crime, you’re more likely to commit that crime than someone who does.

Wrong!

I said inappropriate as opposed to sexual assault (and even stated within the post that my assessment may be incorrect based on information I’d seen on line - which was a relatively recent change).

So, because I see it as inappropriate as opposed to sexual assault, I’m still more likely than you to do something inappropriate!?

[ksrclaret]

To give peace of mind I'm thinking of starting a crowd fund to pay for future protection of ksrclarets daughter.

Thanks, but rather than money you could just keep your hands to yourself and encourage others to follow if you are genuinely wanting to give peace of mind. That way everyone benefits.

Let me know

[Volvoclaret]

Always kept my hands to myself, (that's why I'm blind as a bat). Glad to see you've calmed the rhetoric down. Please dont get yourself so worked up you will give yourself a heart attack and then what will your daughter do.

[Greenmile]

Wrong!

I said inappropriate as opposed to sexual assault (and even stated within the post that my assessment may be incorrect based on information I’d seen on line - which was a relatively recent change).

So, because I see it as inappropriate as opposed to sexual assault, I’m still more likely than you to do something inappropriate!?

Yes, you are more likely to do something you consider to be “inappropriate” than I am to do something I consider to be sexual assault. That was exactly the point I was making. Well done for finally getting it.

[ksrclaret]

Always kept my hands to myself, (that's why I'm blind as a bat). Glad to see you've calmed the rhetoric down. Please dont get yourself so worked up you will give yourself a heart attack and then what will your daughter do.

I can’t help but get worked up about sexual assault and the defence of it. It’s not just something I’ve disagreed with since I’ve had kids, but it’s really focused the mind when you know what sort of people there are out there. Thankfully, there are lots of very good people too though looking at some of the comments on here calling it out.

I’ll try and avoid the heart attack if possible.

[DCWat]

Yes, you are more likely to do something you consider to be “inappropriate” than I am to do something I consider to be sexual assault. That was exactly the point I was making. Well done for finally getting it.

It’s good that one of us is capable of getting something.

Just to be clear, I wouldn’t do something inappropriate to a woman, nor would I commit sexual assault against a woman and most definitely, no more likely than you.

[AlargeClaret]

You just could not resist bringing your views on left wingers, wokes, cancel culture etc into this could you ?

Cancel culture and wokes ? That the Guardian ,Indy et al are in uproar is a clue to the left being all over it though . It’s simply a factual observation.
If you’re truly naive enough to think that politics isn’t playing a huge part here where a straight middle aged man decided to kiss a high profile lesbian ( very likely against her will ) there’s little hope for you . That I fully agree with their sentiment is perhaps all a big too much for you .

[Spiral]

Seems my pre-match predictions for this thread were bang-on.

[Spiral]

Cancel culture and wokes ? That the Guardian ,Indy et al are in uproar is a clue to the left being all over it though . It’s simply a factual observation.

You've got a brain rot which makes you view it through that lens. The fact that some news is being reported in newspapers is not evidence of some quasi-mystical political force which you appear to believe to be smothering the world.

If you’re truly naive enough to think that politics isn’t playing a huge part here where a straight middle aged man decided to kiss a high profile lesbian ( very likely against her will ) there’s little hope for you . That I fully agree with their sentiment is perhaps all a big too much for you .

The sexualities of the people involved in such an incident are totally irrelevant to the offence being committed.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Yes. wtf was he thinking. Between that and the crotch grab, the biggest question is how the hell he was in position to beging with?

[Spiral]

People self-insert in these situations, they imagine they are the perpetrator, they imagine kissing a woman in a moment of passion (the sarcastic question about her being pretty right at the beginning reveals this) and they imagine putting their hands all over them. They don't think they are being aggressive or inappropriate because it comes from a place of lust. They don't view it as assault because it comes from a place of almost worshipping her, an object of reverence, and therefore an assault on such a thing seems incomprehensible. The pushback to any kind of criticism comes from a place of defending themselves from the accusation levelled at Rubiales, because mentally they have already played out that scenario time and time again, perhaps sometimes more consciously than others. Perhaps they have even done something similar in their past, so the reaction (to defend by means of downplaying) is a defence of their own actual behaviour. They take criticism of Rubiales' behaviour as an attack on themselves, because they've mentally placed themselves in Rubiales' position. They have fantasised about being close to a woman, they see a man without any kind of inhibition getting far too friendly, they self-insert into the scene and feel a sense of pleasure in that imagined closeness to her. It is from this position that all defences are mounted.

[pureclaret]

“Sexual assault is where one person intentionally touches another person sexually without their consent. The touching can be done with any part of the body or with an object.”

https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/sexual-offences

I’d suggest what he did was inappropriate as opposed to sexual assault, based solely on the above (notwithstanding my argument around the celebratory nature of the events and the hugs / cheek kisses before and after the brief lip kiss).

Worth adding though, and contrary to the position I’ve taken, whilst having a Google, I noted an article that stated in 2020 clarification was made that ‘sexual intent’ does not need to be proven.

Greenmile: “Do you think it’s more likely to be the folk who call out sexual assault when they see it, or the folk who insist it’s all just an “overreaction”?”

I reckon you’re equally as likely as I am to commit sexual assault - we’ve taken a different stand on this subject but please do not suggest you are less likely to commit such an act - that is not correct.

I have read that recently under Spansih Law (not the UK you have put on) that the act he did if she did not agree to it is sexual asault . Seams a little bit harsh for a stolen kiss but then where do we start or draw a line as to what we can do. I remeber a game when I was at school called kiss chase luckley I was a fast run so never got caught when chassed. Never did get kissed once did get bitten on my cheek quite badley. Guess that game not played now

[Jakubclaret]

People self-insert in these situations, they imagine they are the perpetrator, they imagine kissing a woman in a moment of passion (the sarcastic question about her being pretty right at the beginning reveals this) and they imagine putting their hands all over them. They don't think they are being aggressive or inappropriate because it comes from a place of lust. They don't view it as assault because it comes from a place of almost worshipping her, an object of reverence, and therefore an assault on such a thing seems incomprehensible. The pushback to any kind of criticism comes from a place of defending themselves from the accusation levelled at Rubiales, because mentally they have already played out that scenario time and time again, perhaps sometimes more consciously than others. Perhaps they have even done something similar in their past, so the reaction (to defend by means of downplaying) is a defence of their own actual behaviour. They take criticism of Rubiales' behaviour as an attack on themselves, because they've mentally placed themselves in Rubiales' position. They have fantasised about being close to a woman, they see a man without any kind of inhibition getting far too friendly, they self-insert into the scene and feel a sense of pleasure in that imagined closeness to her. It is from this position that all defences are mounted.

You think far too deep & get silly ideas into your head.

[AlargeClaret]

You've got a brain rot which makes you view it through that lens. The fact that some news is being reported in newspapers is not evidence of some quasi-mystical political force which you appear to believe to be smothering the world.


There’s was zero mention of Wokes /Cancel culture , totally irrelevant.

[Enola Gay]

Only if you class what happened as sexual assault which says it all about the media and society these days. A peck on the lips in front of millions of people is hardly that.

If HS2 could dig as deep and as quick as you it'd be in Glasgow by now.

[fatboy47]

You think far too deep & get silly ideas into your head.

Translation :- I haven't the capacity to understand Spiral's post.

[Jakubclaret]

Translation :- I haven't the capacity to understand Spiral's post.

You can transmit the same message in 20 words or use 200 I know which takes less effort & I'm not talking from the reader perspective.

[Spiral]

I have read that recently under Spansih Law (not the UK you have put on) that the act he did if she did not agree to it is sexual asault . Seams a little bit harsh for a stolen kiss but then where do we start or draw a line as to what we can do. I remeber a game when I was at school called kiss chase luckley I was a fast run so never got caught when chassed. Never did get kissed once did get bitten on my cheek quite badley. Guess that game not played now

Okay from your tone it sounds like you're lamenting the passing of something you viewed as quite innocent (kiss chase), and from there it's not a leap to blame feminists, wokies, cancel culture, or whatever other windmill people want to tilt at for making the world more boring for you, but have you considered at all that games like kiss chase, or to speak more generally, the ideas that are put in impressionable children's minds, might play a large part in informing how people behave in adult life? I also played kiss chase when I was really young, but most people mature in their late teens and develop notions of consent organically if they aren't taught them expressly. Every once in a while you've got some man-baby who never grew out of kiss chase (kiss chase is a metaphor for the ideas children are inculcated with more generally, seeing as how everything needs spelling out on this forum); every once in a while there comes along a man-baby who lacks the motional maturity to reflect of his own behaviour and empathise with other human beings, who lacks the balls to take responsibility, and who ends up going through great pains when the extant immature ideas which were placed in his head as a child slam full speed in to the brick wall that is adult human life. Instead of shedding a tear for something supposedly innocent being lost to the winds of change, think more deeply and question how innocent it really was. What might be innocent in children is not always so in adults, and to hold a grown man to the standard of a child is utterly preposterous.

[Spiral]

There’s was zero mention of Wokes /Cancel culture , totally irrelevant.

In this cultural milieu, in the context you use it, you use 'the left' (as though it were an tangible, material entity and not something deeply abstract), you use it as a synonym for those things. You've fallen back on 'the left' as the convenient antagonist at hand because we've passed a point where using the words woke and cancel culture is credible, where you can say those things without being obviously foolish, and you're too embarrassed to say them. Those concepts have been assimilated into your idea of 'the left', and it's apparent in the derisive tone you and others strike when using the word.

[Taffy on the wing]

I just hope society does change by the time my daughter enters it on her own because right now I'm scared that she will be assaulted whilst others defend it and say it's been blown out of proportion.

Biggest big girls blouse on here.

[Taffy on the wing]

The tabloids will be running with this and similar for weeks to come….. blown out of all proportion.

[JellyBaby]

He has to get kicked out, and hopefully this will be a seminal moment in Spanish society when it happens. Unfortunately, it wasn’t a surprise that it happened and also the fact that such actions are being defended

[Swizzlestick]

The tabloids will be running with this and similar for weeks to come….. blown out of all proportion.

They'll be 'running it for weeks' because of his actions and his subsequent arrogance in not owning up to these actions. It's clear this is part of a wider pattern of behaviour inside the Spanish Football Federation.

[ksrclaret]

Biggest big girls blouse on here.

Yuck