REPORT: Last gasp goal wins unlikely point

[Foshiznik]

There is certainly a distinct lack of connection to the current squad, especially noticeable as last season's squad seemed more connected to fans than ever. However, seeing Fofana's celebration for the second goal and Assignon's celebratory interaction with the longside after the first, i am (possibly naively) optimistic that the three new boys will start to sway that aspect back into favour.

Whether you are an old or young fan (i am in the early middle age bracket) we all want the club to win, so hopefully even if it probably is too little too late, we will at least see our collective interest and optimism grow even a little over the rest of the season in readiness for a hopefully successful season next season.

[burnleymik]

Was disappointed to read that report and I think CT's overall feelings for the club definitely seeped into that match report as I don't believe it was a bad as some people are now thinking.

We started brightly and the goal killed us and then granted, we were awful and carried too many passengers until the changes were made and the game turned. Fulham are a decent side and that fightback is hopefully a turning point for the players.

As for the overall feel, I know change is always going to be hard, especially the scale of change and the speed it's happened at our club, but it does feel like they are all puling in the same direction and it's going to take the fans time to get on board with it all.

We have been "old school" for a long time and we needed to move the club forward as a whole and I believe the intentions of the new owners are good, it's just that we have been used to one thing for so long and now things are tough it's human nature to scrutinise everything.

It feels more like we are trying to build something for the long term, will it work, no idea, but the direction had no choice but to change as we were standing still whilst those around us were not. It's still very early days and however tough right now, we have to keep faith and keep with the team. They are going to struggle even more if we turn on them. UTC.

[beeholeclaret]

It’s draining. I never thought it would happen but my love and passion for BFC is nothing like it was.

The match report was a good read with balanced views.

Sad to read your above words though.

[Clovius Boofus]

We started brightly and the goal killed us and then granted, we were awful and carried too many passengers until the changes were made and the game turned. Fulham are a decent side and that fightback is hopefully a turning point for the players.

We looked dead and buried at HT, and the only thing I was expecting in the second half was one or two more Fulham goals. We fought back and showed a bit of spirit, accumulating in a stoppage time equaliser. In a season of lean pickings, I take some positives from that. UTC.

[beddie]

The match report was a good read with balanced views.

Sad to read your above words though.

I understand what CT means though. I’m of similar age and having watched the clarets since childhood always felt a closeness to the players and the club. This season especially it’s the first time I’ve felt the connection has waned somewhat. Even under Dyche it still felt connected, regrettably not at the moment.

[BabylonClaret]

I think probably the key thing (like Jedi said) is that we are pretty much down. Snatching late points isn't enough. And to be fair we scored with a fair bit of tine to get the second, the crowd lifted and the next time we actually put a shot against them was in injury time when we scored. There's no urgency about our play - the goals were scored when we showed a little bit of urgency.

No wonder the crowd is half asleep.

I also think the bizarre VAR check also killed any momentum and feelgood from the equaliser

Trouble is now we have what 14 games of non season as we slowly slide down the exit ramp to the Championship. That's hard for anyone (players or fans);to get excited about

[BabylonClaret]

And it's also amplified by a Luton side showing us how to make a decent fist of staying up. They might slide in like us but by crikey they have gone down kicking and screaming

[Foshiznik]

And it's also amplified by a Luton side showing us how to make a decent fist of staying up. They might slide in like us but by crikey they have gone down kicking and screaming

100% right now. However, i genuinely wouldn't be that surprised (although it would be surprising somewhat!) if we finished above them when injuries kick in and they lose the positivity that the gimmick of playing in the premier league for the first time after a few more heavy defeats.

That's not to say we are staying up though. I'm 99.9% certain we aren't.

[Jamesy]

There are some miserable people on this message board. Look at me, I want to tell you all about my life and about how much I hate watching Burnley nowadays. If you don’t like it just don’t go on the game. We don’t need to hear your sob stories. We need supporters who will stand with us through thick and thin and be positive. We don’t need supporters who are negatively putting us down which passes down to other fans and the team. Yes, its not the best of seasons but for me this is football and what being a Burnley fan is all about. My lad never watched us get beat last year. he hasn't seen us win this year yet. He is only young. But like me, we are still excited to watch the Clarets. When we equalised against Fulham, he had a tear of joy in his eye. He was over the moon. I wish all the negatives would just stay at home.

I’m not sure about your choice of words when describing people who aren’t really enjoying it anymore? Miserable? Negative?
Listen, when we equalised on Saturday I was happy that we had snatched this late goal and was up out of my seat like most people around me. Not everyone was up as I sit the Bob Lord stand and it can take some a little while to plan standing up manoeuvres.
And sob stories? I can’t recall any sob stories in my post or other posts similar to mine. People are just stating what watching Burnley means to them at present.
All I can say for my part is that I am getting older now and watching football does not give me the thrill it used to for various reasons.
It’s not because we are near the bottom of the league, I have felt like this for several years now. The same applies to watching hyped up Premier League games on TV. I usually don’t bother.
If as you say we don’t need supporters who are negatively putting us down then you are partly right. I would never boo our team at the match or shout and single out players for criticism. However, this messageboard is a platform for people to discuss what they have watched and all things BFC, whether or not it is positive or negative.
You keep taking your lad on and hopefully he gets a lot more experiences of being overjoyed at the match and following Burnley. I will keep watching us for a little bit longer as I said then gracefully retire from travelling up north every other weekend and a few away games to spend more time with my lovely wife. Just give it a little more thought though when you are quick to jump on those of us who put our heads above the parapet and say how we are currently feeling about watching Burnley. It’s not whining or sob stories, it’s honesty and empathy. Believe me, you may have the same feelings in years to come. UTC.

[TsarBomba]

I’m not sure about your choice of words when describing people who aren’t really enjoying it anymore? Miserable? Negative?
Listen, when we equalised on Saturday I was happy that we had snatched this late goal and was up out of my seat like most people around me. Not everyone was up as I sit the Bob Lord stand and it can take some a little while to plan standing up manoeuvres.
And sob stories? I can’t recall any sob stories in my post or other posts similar to mine. People are just stating what watching Burnley means to them at present.
All I can say for my part is that I am getting older now and watching football does not give me the thrill it used to for various reasons.
It’s not because we are near the bottom of the league, I have felt like this for several years now. The same applies to watching hyped up Premier League games on TV. I usually don’t bother.
If as you say we don’t need supporters who are negatively putting us down then you are partly right. I would never boo our team at the match or shout and single out players for criticism. However, this messageboard is a platform for people to discuss what they have watched and all things BFC, whether or not it is positive or negative.
You keep taking your lad on and hopefully he gets a lot more experiences of being overjoyed at the match and following Burnley. I will keep watching us for a little bit longer as I said then gracefully retire from travelling up north every other weekend and a few away games to spend more time with my lovely wife. Just give it a little more thought though when you are quick to jump on those of us who put our heads above the parapet and say how we are currently feeling about watching Burnley. It’s not whining or sob stories, it’s honesty and empathy. Believe me, you may have the same feelings in years to come. UTC.

Good post, and you don’t need to justify to anyone about how you feel at the moment re BFC and football in general.

Doing the job i do, I get chatting to a lot of people, (invariably about football) and their thoughts mirror exactly what has been said here.

There is a widespread malaise with football. I have a few extended family members that are West Ham fans but now watch local football instead.

[aggi]

I think the thing that riles most fans is that VK has tried every single player in the squad to come up with a winning combination,every single one of them apart from Trafford has been dropped/rested ,even Sean Dyche had a light bulb moment when finally decided that Joe Hart even though an ex England keeper was costing us points by not commanding his area.

Has Amdouni been dropped/rested? Feels like he's played every game when fit (and also splits opinion).

[claretspice]

I think this is right, though a fiasco is a bit harsh. Naive maybe.

I can see what he was trying to do. Drop Berge back to a three when in possession, like he did early last season and at Anderlecht with Cullen, setting a high line, pushing the fullbacks up, especially the new lad who started as a winger, with Amdouni moving inside to create the space.

Trouble is, it didn’t work, because it was too much change for some players and they looked confused by it. Heck, one guy had only been in the country 24 hours. Every time Fulham won the ball they pumped it over the top with runners tearing onto it. That’s why he is a tinkerman, he changes things at inopportune moments when there was no need. That trait could easily see the fans turn, I dearly hope not.

I'm not sure that was the change though. Berge did drop back in possession and that was fine - the issue we had in possession in the first half was that we never had a runner to the right wing unless Foster offered and so lacked options (Amdouni wasnt moving inside - he was alway inside and there simply wasnt a right winger/midfielder). The big issue though was defensively- Berge appeared to drop back into a back 3 and we did not have any defensive cover on either side, but especially down our right, because we basically played without wingers. It was all a bit of a mess - we didn't press well (not least because Brownhill wasbon his own and Odobert and Amdouni in particular do not press well) they had easy outballs into their full back channels, they had 2v1s down our flanks, and they had easy balls in behind our full backs who were pushing high as though playing as wing backs. When all of that is put together with the sort of ill-discipline Vitinho showed for their second goal (miles behind the defensive line) you have something that I think does justify the term fiasco.

If we'd been able to dominate the ball, the theory might have worked. But at this level it has long been established that we can't dominate the ball. So you have to have a plan for how you'll defend without the ball. The one VK tried on Saturday wasn't fit for purpose as far as I can see and certainly didn't allow for the limitations of his players both technically (we can't dominate the ball) or physically (we can't press strongly enough with the players he picked). The most frustrating thing is that we've been here before- we tried something not dissimilar against Villa in August with very similar results, and Spurs at home wasn't a million miles different either.

[Jamesy]

Good post, and you don’t need to justify to anyone about how you feel at the moment re BFC and football in general.

Doing the job i do, I get chatting to a lot of people, (invariably about football) and their thoughts mirror exactly what has been said here.

There is a widespread malaise with football. I have a few extended family members that are West Ham fans but now watch local football instead.

Thanks for the kind words.

I too watch lower league/non league football. When Burnley aren’t playing on a Saturday I sometimes hop on the train from Shrewsbury and go and watch Telford United.
Two or three pints of good beer before the game and then watch a proper game of football. By proper I mean a late/mis timed tackle that doesn’t always result in a yellow card or worse. Yes the skill level is a lot lower but a lot of lads at this level have been rejected from the league clubs and are still decent footballers and the game seems more honest.
UTC.

[ClaretPete001]

I'm not sure that was the change though. Berge did drop back in possession and that was fine - the issue we had in possession in the first half was that we never had a runner to the right wing unless Foster offered and so lacked options (Amdouni wasnt moving inside - he was alway inside and there simply wasnt a right winger/midfielder). The big issue though was defensively- Berge appeared to drop back into a back 3 and we did not have any defensive cover on either side, but especially down our right, because we basically played without wingers. It was all a bit of a mess - we didn't press well (not least because Brownhill wasbon his own and Odobert and Amdouni in particular do not press well) they had easy outballs into their full back channels, they had 2v1s down our flanks, and they had easy balls in behind our full backs who were pushing high as though playing as wing backs. When all of that is put together with the sort of ill-discipline Vitinho showed for their second goal (miles behind the defensive line) you have something that I think does justify the term fiasco.

If we'd been able to dominate the ball, the theory might have worked. But at this level it has long been established that we can't dominate the ball. So you have to have a plan for how you'll defend without the ball. The one VK tried on Saturday wasn't fit for purpose as far as I can see and certainly didn't allow for the limitations of his players both technically (we can't dominate the ball) or physically (we can't press strongly enough with the players he picked). The most frustrating thing is that we've been here before- we tried something not dissimilar against Villa in August with very similar results, and Spurs at home wasn't a million miles different either.

Ramsay played as opposed to JBG, which allowed Berge to drop into the back 4. I believe it was deployed against City but I didn't go to that game but I guess it worked because we had no intention of winning the game.

As far as I know City was the first time we've deployed this though I could be wrong...

Having beaten Fulham at Christmas with a 4-4-2 and being at home I don't think it is unfair to call it a fiasco because we won't have too many opportunities to play a team like Fulham at home and we desperately needed 3 points.

[FCBurnley]

As I said in post 2 on this thread. CT captured my feelings exactly. When we scored our second goal it felt like a consolation goal as a draw was simply too little too late. Anybody who understands football knows we are all but relegated and that should deeply sadden any Burnley fans. Despite living in America my life still revolves around Burnley on matchdays and always will. Only difference now is that I watch on tv rather than at The Turf.
I have know CT for over 60 years and have travelled to many games with him. It’s fair to say we have had many differences of opinion but I can never accuse him of not being 100% Claret and Blue so to read his report was concerning to me as he is usually very honest but positive. His report for the Fulham game was honest but also full of despair. Exactly my feelings. On the football side of things the most worrying thing for me is that our Manager does not appear to know his players best positions and his best team barring injuries. I personally have lost all confidence in him and it would appear many of the players feel the same. I specifically watched the body language of our Captain Josh Brownhill last Saturday. I can only describe it as flat and a far cry from his usual self. Something is not right. Could just be as simple he feels everything is against us ( as I do) or he is no longer enjoying his football. This is not a criticism of him. Anyway chin up and move on. We have Liverpool and Arsenal to look forward too next

[CrosspoolClarets]

It’s a big leap to go from being fed up to concluding that we have lost all confidence in the manager and it appears many players feel the same. Personally I see no evidence whatsoever for that. More likely the pressure of a relegation battle is weighing some players down.

Kompany was too good for the division below - he put together a rag tag band of nearly men who haven’t done much anywhere else - Benson, Tella, THB, Zaroury etc, and whose stock is now much higher. That wasn’t exactly a Leicester squad. To go from that to losing all faith in him is too harsh. Yes, he is on a steep learning curve, up against 19 of the best managers in world football. Even Pochetino is struggling badly, with better players than us, and his last job was managing Messi and co.

It’s tough, really tough, but we can see what he is trying to do.

[Safron]

I'm not sure that was the change though. Berge did drop back in possession and that was fine - the issue we had in possession in the first half was that we never had a runner to the right wing unless Foster offered and so lacked options (Amdouni wasnt moving inside - he was alway inside and there simply wasnt a right winger/midfielder). The big issue though was defensively- Berge appeared to drop back into a back 3 and we did not have any defensive cover on either side, but especially down our right, because we basically played without wingers. It was all a bit of a mess - we didn't press well (not least because Brownhill wasbon his own and Odobert and Amdouni in particular do not press well) they had easy outballs into their full back channels, they had 2v1s down our flanks, and they had easy balls in behind our full backs who were pushing high as though playing as wing backs. When all of that is put together with the sort of ill-discipline Vitinho showed for their second goal (miles behind the defensive line) you have something that I think does justify the term fiasco.

If we'd been able to dominate the ball, the theory might have worked. But at this level it has long been established that we can't dominate the ball. So you have to have a plan for how you'll defend without the ball. The one VK tried on Saturday wasn't fit for purpose as far as I can see and certainly didn't allow for the limitations of his players both technically (we can't dominate the ball) or physically (we can't press strongly enough with the players he picked). The most frustrating thing is that we've been here before- we tried something not dissimilar against Villa in August with very similar results, and Spurs at home wasn't a million miles different either.

I hope we don't employ these tactics again and the starting lineup

[Culmclaret]

It’s a big leap to go from being fed up to concluding that we have lost all confidence in the manager and it appears many players feel the same. Personally I see no evidence whatsoever for that. More likely the pressure of a relegation battle is weighing some players down.

Kompany was too good for the division below - he put together a rag tag band of nearly men who haven’t done much anywhere else - Benson, Tella, THB, Zaroury etc, and whose stock is now much higher. That wasn’t exactly a Leicester squad. To go from that to losing all faith in him is too harsh. Yes, he is on a steep learning curve, up against 19 of the best managers in world football. Even Pochetino is struggling badly, with better players than us, and his last job was managing Messi and co.

It’s tough, really tough, but we can see what he is trying to do.

I wish I could see what he is trying to do. I find it totally baffling.

[Goody1975]

The massive frustration is many were saying we were dead and buried at Christmas.

The last two home games on paper are the ones we had to target to get maximum points, we have been poor in both but six points would have seen us only two points from safety and only four points behind Forest in 16th place.

Yes we were robbed against Luton but on the balance of play we deserved no more than a point from the two games.

[Silkyskills1]

'More likely the pressure of a relegation battle is weighing some players down'

Doesn't feel like a relegation battle. Saturday seemed more of a 'going through the motions' exercise. Luton are in a relegation battle, probably since the first match in August. They may escape, they might fail but they appear to be doing everything they can to remain in this league. They've got all their fans on their side, a wonderful feeling that we all experienced less than 12 months ago. That helps. Also, the fact that other managers appear to be struggling is of no consolation to us. It doesn't make our plight somehow more understandable or acceptable.
If we continue to 'go through the motions' then untold damage will be done to us that may take years to repair, if at all. I'm not just talking about relegation either. As far as I'm concerned it's a very worrying time.

[Westleigh]

Has Amdouni been dropped/rested? Feels like he's played every game when fit (and also splits opinion).

Yes