Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[Spijed]

I notice no one is in the remote interested that the EU can lose 2.6 billion.

And it’s ok

Anyway Lowbank, aren't you a bit scuppered if Boris really does get a deal through and we leave the EU with a compromise on all sides?

[Greenmile]

And I thought they were absolute proof. Unless they say something contrary to what you believe

Again you misunderstand.

Lots of polls can be taken together to reach a fairly solid conclusion. A single poll is usually worthless, as there are always outliers- a bit like you used to be able to find the odd economist who thought Brexit would be good for the UK, or the odd scientist who doesn’t believe in anthropogenic climate change.

The point is you can’t dismiss loads of polling data and then try to rely on a single poll to back up your point. Well, you can, but it’s not a very bright thing to do.

[elwaclaret]

I wish I was as sure as you two guys seem to be, I personally think there is a long and winding road ahead, mmmm maybe a song title in there

The most shocking thing of all for me has been the Eire position, or rather it lasting so long. Their reliance on the British market was far greater than I had realised, according to the Ed Balls Brexit thingy the other night... and it already made little sense other than to overturn the referendum when that looked likely. If No Deal happened we may suffer, but it would be a stroll compared to what Eire would be hit with... so I think that the sooner it can be put to bed the better... despite and without the more political reasons.

Edit - for clarification.

[Lowbankclaret]

Anyway Lowbank, aren't you a bit scuppered if Boris really does get a deal through and we leave the EU with a compromise on all sides?

Not really , that leaves us open to a 500 billion claim by the EU if it collapsed, which is
Likely if we leave.

That still means if they go under so do we.

[Spijed]

Not really , that leaves us open to a 500 billion claim by the EU if it collapsed, which is
Likely if we leave.

That still means if they go under so do we.

I meant in terms of an election if most of the Brexit votes returning to the Conservatives post EU?

[martin_p]

Auto correct fail pal. I'll proof read when I retire, and brexit news makes or breaks my day

Something else I never said, bring on the lies! For someone whose allegedly passed a Mensa test your comprehension is very poor.

[AndrewJB]

All I’ve heard from Labour so far is the promise of a Henry 8th type asset stripping to pay for a comprehensive education system... as someone who was schooled during Labours last attempt at comprehensive education... What a treat awaits the young.

If that's all you've heard from Labour so far, it's because your news sources don't report on Labour's policies unless they can negatively spin them. See the link below, if you're curious:

https://labour.org.uk/issues/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[summitclaret]

That's because they are not accountable to anyone in any meaningful way. That's the main problem with them.

[Spiral]

So you think that this remainer parliament is going to agree a fair question? There is only 1 - do you want to leave yes or no. Anything that takes no deal away from the table and means the EU stay in charge of negotiations.

Or if you want to define what leave means then do think that a remainder HOC can do that fairly or are you prepared to let lwave supporting mps do it because you have your option of remain already.

Or if we have agreed a deal with the EU, do you think it is reasonable to delay matters months just so you can have a second go at remaining? I don't .

Why should leavers have to win 2 refs to get what they want?

If you vote on a thing as nebulous as "leave" without consideration for the finer points and detail you're essentially delegating the decision-making of what 'leave' means to someone else. The govt, in this case. And as the govt is accountable to parliament, then parliament, which is why any and every decision needs parliamentary approval. If we are to replace our representative parliamentary democracy with direct democracy, I want a vote on EVERYTHING. And OFTEN. Otherwise I'm being, quite literally, disenfranchised.

See, I could absolutely make the argument without fear of correction that May's deal sees us leaving the political union. This is one definition of leaving. The argument could be made that leaving as a part of the customs union would be another definition of leaving. You might not like the CU, but there are plenty of them around the world between countries not in political union. If we weren't in a customs union, under calmer times the major parties would be looking to join one as part of their foreign and economic policies, I'm sure. No-deal certainly is leaving under anyone's interpretation, but the essential point remains that under this parliament none of those could get majority approval. The only way no-deal gets on the ballot paper is if a GE returns a parliament elected explicitly on the policy of leaving without a deal. If the will of the country is for a hardline parliament we'll get one. If the will of the country is for a remainer parliament we'll get one. As of 2017, we're sort of stuck in the middle, but only because in 2017 that represented the will of country, which takes me right back to the first paragraph of this post. You could read this post in circles and it would make perfect sense. We haven't left yet purely because there's no clear mandate for any particular, explicitly defined vision of leaving around which leavers have been able to coalesce in sufficient number. Delegation of decision making, first sentence of this post etc etc etc...you can't blame parliamentarians for the country's inability to make up it's mind about what it actually wants.

[Jakubclaret]

Again you misunderstand.

Lots of polls can be taken together to reach a fairly solid conclusion. A single poll is usually worthless, as there are always outliers- a bit like you used to be able to find the odd economist who thought Brexit would be good for the UK, or the odd scientist who doesn’t believe in anthropogenic climate change.

The point is you can’t dismiss loads of polling data and then try to rely on a single poll to back up your point. Well, you can, but it’s not a very bright thing to do.

Even if the poll is independently created using information collated from a wide spectrum of the general public with varying different backgrounds, I’d have faith it’s a pretty good indicator, each individual poll could be constructed differently I’d prefer & have more faith in 1 properly constructed poll than say half a dozen flakey 1s.

[Damo]

Again you misunderstand.

Lots of polls can be taken together to reach a fairly solid conclusion. A single poll is usually worthless, as there are always outliers- a bit like you used to be able to find the odd economist who thought Brexit would be good for the UK, or the odd scientist who doesn’t believe in anthropogenic climate change.

The point is you can’t dismiss loads of polling data and then try to rely on a single poll to back up your point. Well, you can, but it’s not a very bright thing to do.

Well I've not seen anything that contradicts my opinion.
(Other than Martin's poll of independent readers)
Usually, in a debate, people post something that proves the other person to be incorrect. Saying "you are not very bright" over and over again just makes you look a bit silly

[Damo]

Something else I never said, bring on the lies! For someone whose allegedly passed a Mensa test your comprehension is very poor.

I spent far too long the other day trying to get you to understand something really simple.
I wont be making that mistake again

[martin_p]

I spent far too long the other day trying to get you to understand something really simple.
I wont be making that mistake again

Ah yes, uou can’t vote leave if you have a German wife. The poll I linked was not a poll of Independent readers (but you know that).

[Greenmile]

Well I've not seen anything that contradicts my opinion.
(Other than Martin's poll of independent readers)
Usually, in a debate, people post something that proves the other person to be incorrect. Saying "you are not very bright" over and over again just makes you look a bit silly

“Martin’s” poll wasn’t of Independent readers, but you know that, don’t you?

I’m pretty sure IT has provided you with tons of polling data showing Remain is now more popular than Brexit. You dismissed it out of hand because it went against your prejudices.

You may well be correct in your opinion that no-deal is gaining in popularity (although “Martin’s poll” suggests you aren’t). That’s not my point.

My point is that, if you’ve spent months dismissing loads and loads of polls because they tell you something you don’t want to hear, to then rely on a single poll to back up a fairly bold statement makes you look pretty stupid, or dishonest, or both.

I didn’t say you’re not very bright on this occasion - your comprehension skills still need a bit of work.

[KateR]

If you vote on a thing as nebulous as "leave" without consideration for the finer points and detail you're essentially delegating the decision-making of what 'leave' means to someone else. The govt, in this case. And as the govt is accountable to parliament, then parliament, which is why any and every decision needs parliamentary approval. If we are to replace our representative parliamentary democracy with direct democracy, I want a vote on EVERYTHING. And OFTEN. Otherwise I'm being, quite literally, disenfranchised.

See, I could absolutely make the argument without fear of correction that May's deal sees us leaving the political union. This is one definition of leaving. The argument could be made that leaving as a part of the customs union would be another definition of leaving. You might not like the CU, but there are plenty of them around the world between countries not in political union. If we weren't in a customs union, under calmer times the major parties would be looking to join one as part of their foreign and economic policies, I'm sure. No-deal certainly is leaving under anyone's interpretation, but the essential point remains that under this parliament none of those could get majority approval. The only way no-deal gets on the ballot paper is if a GE returns a parliament elected explicitly on the policy of leaving without a deal. If the will of the country is for a hardline parliament we'll get one. If the will of the country is for a remainer parliament we'll get one. As of 2017, we're sort of stuck in the middle, but only because in 2017 that represented the will of country, which takes me right back to the first paragraph of this post. You could read this post in circles and it would make perfect sense. We haven't left yet purely because there's no clear mandate for any particular, explicitly defined vision of leaving around which leavers have been able to coalesce in sufficient number. Delegation of decision making, first sentence of this post etc etc etc...you can't blame parliamentarians for the country's inability to make up it's mind about what it actually wants.

I absolutely 100% blame parliament for not being able to enact what the country made it's mind up about, I 100% hope that said parliamentarians lose there seats/jobs in the next GE as a reward for it, which I am 100% many of them are worried about.

Also Government do not answer to parliament, unless you are trying to convince me now because of the precedence already set that parliament will go to the law courts about everything they dislike that government tries to do? Such that if Government want to inject billions in to healthcare, recruit 2000 more police etc. that parliament have now to approve there spending because they don't like it, think it's to much or to little? I believe Pandora's box has been opened a little by said parliamentarian's, the courts opened it a little more and there is a risk of stopping the actions of a duly elected government where they are attempting to implement policy they were duly elected to do.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Ireland has to blink.... anything else is inviting potential economic disaster. Eire needs the British market, he has done very well to last this long. The last thing the EU needs is to have Ireland back to going cap in hand for major bailouts like the bad old days.

Indeed, though the suggestion tonight is that the EU have also blinked, in (potentially) accepting a NI only version of May’s Custom’s Partnership.

That would be jeopardising the four freedoms by letting Ni cherry pick parts of the single market.

Basically, that the EU would never do this has been the cornerstone of the argument Lancs and other intelligent Remainers have been making on here for three years.

I suspect that in hindsight we will say that the EU principles were fine and dandy, but having the world’s fifth biggest economy on your doorstep and out of the SM changes things as regards the loyalty to the four freedoms.

[Greenmile]

Even if the poll is independently created using information collated from a wide spectrum of the general public with varying different backgrounds, I’d have faith it’s a pretty good indicator, each individual poll could be constructed differently I’d prefer & have more faith in 1 properly constructed poll than say half a dozen flakey 1s.

How do you decide how well-constructed a poll is? I don’t mean how does one decide - I mean you, Jakub. What are the indicators you look for, and how much weight do you assign to each?

I suspect you assign 100% weighting based on “do the results of this poll tell me what I want to hear?”, but I’m happy for you to correct me if I’m wrong.

Do you remember when you unquestioningly believed someone’s obvious joke about a poll having been conducted solely amongst media studies students from Edinburgh (or something)? I presume you considered that to be one of those “flakey 1s”.

[Damo]

“Martin’s” poll wasn’t of Independent readers, but you know that, don’t you?

I’m pretty sure IT has provided you with tons of polling data showing Remain is now more popular than Brexit. You dismissed it out of hand because it went against your prejudices.

You may well be correct in your opinion that no-deal is gaining in popularity (although “Martin’s poll” suggests you aren’t). That’s not my point.

My point is that, if you’ve spent months dismissing loads and loads of polls because they tell you something you don’t want to hear, to then rely on a single poll to back up a fairly bold statement makes you look pretty stupid, or dishonest, or both.

I didn’t say you’re not very bright on this occasion - your comprehension skills still need a bit of work.

I posted an opinion.
You asked me to prove it.
I posted a poll because I know you like them.
I couldn't find another one or I would have posted that too (I'm not saying they dont exist, I just didnt have the time or the inclination to look past the first page of my google search)
I've not seen charlie post any polls lately that contradicts what I believed to be true.
Did I miss anything?

[elwaclaret]

If that's all you've heard from Labour so far, it's because your news sources don't report on Labour's policies unless they can negatively spin them. See the link below, if you're curious:

https://labour.org.uk/issues/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for that AndrewJB. Very interesting. It sounds wonderful... and expensive. I’d love to have a guarantee that money will not stop me of getting my Doctorate in a few years time. But to be fair I don’t think there are that many obstacles for those looking for a Degree. You are assured 4 years of student loans... which covers a foundation year. You have to pay it back but if I get the backing to earn and work at a higher grade I think that is fair enough, and they deserve their interest for the leg up. Under the old system of Grants I had to beg and borrow (mainly of my parents) to self fund as I did not fit all of their tick boxes.

It is all very laudable, and maybe in the next world...

However, I have lost my faith in JC, not necessarily his views... but his Wish washy leadership to really force the party onto a path. I just don’t think he has anywhere near enough sharp talent around him to make it happen... or even to get close. It sounds like JC is looking to create a small scale federal state of his own, almost as a side issue. Higher wages, lower hours... lovely.

Sorry but, Where does he get the money for his revolution... and can I have some please?

It will not happen. Sadly.

Edit - put grant instead of loan

[Spiral]

I absolutely 100% blame parliament for not being able to enact what the country made it's mind up about, I 100% hope that said parliamentarians lose there seats/jobs in the next GE as a reward for it, which I am 100% many of them are worried about.

Also Government do not answer to parliament, unless you are trying to convince me now because of the precedence already set that parliament will go to the law courts about everything they dislike that government tries to do? Such that if Government want to inject billions in to healthcare, recruit 2000 more police etc. that parliament have now to approve there spending because they don't like it, think it's to much or to little? I believe Pandora's box has been opened a little by said parliamentarian's, the courts opened it a little more and there is a risk of stopping the actions of a duly elected government where they are attempting to implement policy they were duly elected to do.

This is literally how a finance bill is passed. How on Earth do you think governments raise and spend taxes? As claretspice eloquently put it the other day, the Supreme Court ruled on a thing done TO parliament. They have no say in what happens IN parliament.

[Lancasterclaret]

Indeed, though the suggestion tonight is that the EU have also blinked, in (potentially) accepting a NI only version of May’s Custom’s Partnership.

That would be jeopardising the four freedoms by letting Ni cherry pick parts of the single market.

Basically, that the EU would never do this has been the cornerstone of the argument Lancs and other intelligent Remainers have been making on here for three years.

I suspect that in hindsight we will say that the EU principles were fine and dandy, but having the world’s fifth biggest economy on your doorstep and out of the SM changes things as regards the loyalty to the four freedoms.

Your info is wrong.

The NI only customs partnership was the EU idea from the start, the UK wide one was Mays idea to try to get the whole union in the customs partnership.

But if it means Brexiteers accept it as proof of the EU blinking I don't give a ****!

[Damo]

Ah yes, uou (sic)can’t vote leave if you have a German wife

Again, I have no desire to try and explain to you that this idea exists only in your head.
It's not something I said

[Devils_Advocate]

How do you decide how well-constructed a poll is? I don’t mean how does one decide - I mean you, Jakub. What are the indicators you look for, and how much weight do you assign to each?

I suspect you assign 100% weighting based on “do the results of this poll tell me what I want to hear?”, but I’m happy for you to correct me if I’m wrong.

Do you remember when you unquestioningly believed someone’s obvious joke about a poll having been conducted solely amongst media studies students from Edinburgh (or something)? I presume you considered that to be one of those “flakey 1s”.

It was gender studies students actually!!

[summitclaret]

If you vote on a thing as nebulous as "leave" without consideration for the finer points and detail you're essentially delegating the decision-making of what 'leave' means to someone else. The govt, in this case. And as the govt is accountable to parliament, then parliament, which is why any and every decision needs parliamentary approval. If we are to replace our representative parliamentary democracy with direct democracy, I want a vote on EVERYTHING. And OFTEN. Otherwise I'm being, quite literally, disenfranchised.

See, I could absolutely make the argument without fear of correction that May's deal sees us leaving the political union. This is one definition of leaving. The argument could be made that leaving as a part of the customs union would be another definition of leaving. You might not like the CU, but there are plenty of them around the world between countries not in political union. If we weren't in a customs union, under calmer times the major parties would be looking to join one as part of their foreign and economic policies, I'm sure. No-deal certainly is leaving under anyone's interpretation, but the essential point remains that under this parliament none of those could get majority approval. The only way no-deal gets on the ballot paper is if a GE returns a parliament elected explicitly on the policy of leaving without a deal. If the will of the country is for a hardline parliament we'll get one. If the will of the country is for a remainer parliament we'll get one. As of 2017, we're sort of stuck in the middle, but only because in 2017 that represented the will of country, which takes me right back to the first paragraph of this post. You could read this post in circles and it would make perfect sense. We haven't left yet purely because there's no clear mandate for any particular, explicitly defined vision of leaving around which leavers have been able to coalesce in sufficient number. Delegation of decision making, first sentence of this post etc etc etc...you can't blame parliamentarians for the country's inability to make up it's mind about what it actually wants.

We need a GE asap so that we can try and get a HOC that has a clear view. Having a ref first gets us nowhere and risks serious trouble.

Us leavers are quite prepared to lose brexit to get a meaningful Brexit. Remaining would mean we can get another chance down the line. Leaving with a trapstop is likely to mean that we never leave properly. So why do people say referendum before a GE.?

A GE would be fought on very clear grounds as the 4 parties have distinct positions as per my earlier posts. If Labour duck a GE after the 31 Oct they will be severely punished when the time comes.

[Greenmile]

I posted an opinion.
You asked me to prove it.
I posted a poll because I know you like them.
I couldn't find another one or I would have posted that too (I'm not saying they dont exist, I just didnt have the time or the inclination to look past the first page of my google search)
I've not seen charlie post any polls lately that contradicts what I believed to be true.
Did I miss anything?

You missed the bit when you dismissed all polls as worthless. It came some time before you tried to use one to support your argument.

Btw you still haven’t posted the results of this poll you’re talking about - just a screenshot with the important info (the poll results) cut off from the bottom.

Ill tell you what. I’ll accept the results of your poll as valid (once I’ve actually seen them) if you accept the results of the numerous polls showing a swing to Remain since 2016 as equally valid.

The problem for you is that, once you’ve done that, you’re going to struggle to argue against a second referendum on the basis that the “Will of The People” (tm) has clearly changed since the last one.

[Greenmile]

... I’d love to have a guarantee that money will not stop me of getting my Doctorate in a few years time....

Given the research skills you’ve demonstrated on here, I can’t help but think that it won’t just be money that stops you of (sic) getting a doctorate.

[Greenmile]

It was gender studies students actually!!

Was it Edinburgh, though? I’d be surprised if I remembered the university but not the course.

That was possibly my favourite bit of this thread, and there’s some pretty stiff competition.

[Jakubclaret]

How do you decide how well-constructed a poll is? I don’t mean how does one decide - I mean you, Jakub. What are the indicators you look for, and how much weight do you assign to each?

I suspect you assign 100% weighting based on “do the results of this poll tell me what I want to hear?”, but I’m happy for you to correct me if I’m wrong.

Do you remember when you unquestioningly believed someone’s obvious joke about a poll having been conducted solely amongst media studies students from Edinburgh (or something)? I presume you considered that to be one of those “flakey 1s”.

A team conducting a poll no doubt would base it on some sort of criteria, breaking it down into categories, age, area, profession the favourite political party they’d likely opt to vote for & other interests etc, probably points I haven’t even thought of in this reply, I’ve never been personally involved in organising 1, I’m guessing that’s how they’d set their stalls to gain a balanced outcome, that’s what I’d do. The Edinburgh 1 was a joke similar to going to Ann summers stores & questioning people how randy there are or interested in sex.

[elwaclaret]

Given the research skills you’ve demonstrated on here, I can’t help but think that it won’t just be money that stops you of (sic) getting a doctorate.

Wish I could be as clever as you.

[Lancasterclaret]

Wish I could be as clever as you.

Whats it in elwa?

[AndrewJB]

Ireland has to blink.... anything else is inviting potential economic disaster. Eire needs the British market, he has done very well to last this long. The last thing the EU needs is to have Ireland back to going cap in hand for major bailouts like the bad old days.

If the EU pull together, and spread the hardship around - as I think they would in a no deal situation - then Ireland, and the rest of the EU will be fine. Ireland and other EU countries would have the potential to step into markets left open by the absence of British products. That might not completely balance out the export losses to the UK market, but the EU as a whole could take the loss of the UK market easier than the UK could take the loss of the EU market.

We on the other hand will be alone.

[Greenmile]

A team conducting a poll no doubt would base it on some sort of criteria, breaking it down into categories, age, area, profession the favourite political party they’d likely opt to vote for & other interests etc, probably points I haven’t even thought of in this reply, I’ve never been personally involved in organising 1, I’m guessing that’s how they’d set their stalls to gain a balanced outcome, that’s what I’d do. The Edinburgh 1 was a joke similar to going to Ann summers stores & questioning people how randy there are or interested in sex.

So you don’t know how to define a well-constructed poll, but you only believe the well-constructed ones? Ok.

And do you still think that poll was actually conducted solely amongst gender studies students from Edinburgh University, even after the person who told you that explained he was taking the ****? There’s really no helping some folk,is there?

[Devils_Advocate]

Was it Edinburgh, though? I’d be surprised if I remembered the university but not the course.

That was possibly my favourite bit of this thread, and there’s some pretty stiff competition.

Yep spot on with Edinburgh. Wasnt even fishing as it was so obviously a p*ss take but Jakub managed to use it to validate his point. Actually felt sorry for him cos some people are just born stupid and cant really help it

[martin_p]

I posted an opinion.
You asked me to prove it.
I posted a poll because I know you like them.
I couldn't find another one or I would have posted that too (I'm not saying they dont exist, I just didnt have the time or the inclination to look past the first page of my google search)
I've not seen charlie post any polls lately that contradicts what I believed to be true.
Did I miss anything?

And all your poll proved was that no deal improved in popularity between July and August, not what you were asked to ‘prove’, that it was increasing in popularity now

[TheFamilyCat]

We need a GE asap so that we can try and get a HOC that has a clear view. Having a ref first gets us nowhere and risks serious trouble.

Us leavers are quite prepared to lose brexit to get a meaningful Brexit. Remaining would mean we can get another chance down the line. Leaving with a trapstop is likely to mean that we never leave properly. So why do people say referendum before a GE.?

A GE would be fought on very clear grounds as the 4 parties have distinct positions as per my earlier posts. If Labour duck a GE after the 31 Oct they will be severely punished when the time comes.

Another blinkered view that all leavers want to leave on the same terms and I'm sure all the "us leavers" are delighted to have you as their spokesperson.

A GE should not be fought on a single issue. Imagine that somehow the Brexit Party won all majority; they may deliver the Brexit that you (and some other) Brexiteers want but would you seriously want them running the country after that?

[Greenmile]

Wish I could be as clever as you.

Can I suggest you start by learning how to use basic English prepositions and work your way up from there?

Or you can start with learning the difference between something you saw on TV and something you dreamed about and mistook for reality. The choice is yours.

[Greenmile]

Yep spot on with Edinburgh. Wasnt even fishing as it was so obviously a p*ss take but Jakub managed to use it to validate his point. Actually felt sorry for him cos some people are just born stupid and cant really help it

The scary bit is that he still seems to believe it!

[Spijed]

Indeed, though the suggestion tonight is that the EU have also blinked, in (potentially) accepting a NI only version of May’s Custom’s Partnership.

That would be jeopardising the four freedoms by letting Ni cherry pick parts of the single market.

Basically, that the EU would never do this has been the cornerstone of the argument Lancs and other intelligent Remainers have been making on here for three years.

I suspect that in hindsight we will say that the EU principles were fine and dandy, but having the world’s fifth biggest economy on your doorstep and out of the SM changes things as regards the loyalty to the four freedoms.

Like I've been asking Lowbankclaret, how do you think it'll play out with the Brexit party?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... k-no-deal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Devils_Advocate]

The scary bit is that he still seems to believe it!

Aye its good to have him back

[elwaclaret]

If the EU pull together, and spread the hardship around - as I think they would in a no deal situation - then Ireland, and the rest of the EU will be fine. Ireland and other EU countries would have the potential to step into markets left open by the absence of British products. That might not completely balance out the export losses to the UK market, but the EU as a whole could take the loss of the UK market easier than the UK could take the loss of the EU market.

We on the other hand will be alone.

Accept you point of view and accept it on its merit as a position. However Ireland is going to experience a major drop before it equates to EU National intervention levels. Still a quite hefty slap for one of the Golden boys of the organisation. Just my thoughts, probably Ill conceived and lacking research, but hey ho.

Edit - corrected for pedant

[elwaclaret]

Can I suggest you start by learning how to use basic English prepositions and work your way up from there?

Or you can start with learning the difference between something you saw on TV and something you dreamed about and mistook for reality. The choice is yours.

Wish I was as clever as you.

[Jakubclaret]

Yep spot on with Edinburgh. Wasnt even fishing as it was so obviously a p*ss take but Jakub managed to use it to validate his point. Actually felt sorry for him cos some people are just born stupid and cant really help it

Or somebody dropped a clanger & then later realised that particular poll was similar to a kitchen colander & then backtracked.

[Devils_Advocate]

Or somebody dropped a clanger & then later realised that particular poll was similar to a kitchen colander & then backtracked.

Yes thats it Sherlock, caught me out good and proper you have

[Greenmile]

Wish I was as clever as you.

Looks like you have quite a way to go yet - this is just gobbledygook :-

Accept you point of view and except it on its merit as a position...

[summitclaret]

Another blinkered view that all leavers want to leave on the same terms and I'm sure all the "us leavers" are delighted to have you as their spokesperson.

A GE should not be fought on a single issue. Imagine that somehow the Brexit Party won all majority; they may deliver the Brexit that you (and some other) Brexiteers want but would you seriously want them running the country after that?

I have said time after time that I want a deal. I think you will find that I have a moderate view on brexit and that once we have GE with the tories fighting it in a free trade deal and leave anyway if the EU won't let us is absolutely what the people voted for in 2016 and will again in a GE.

[elwaclaret]

Looks like you have quite a way to go yet - this is just gobbledygook :-

Very good you found a spelling error... wish I was as clever as you.

[If it be your will]

If the EU pull together, and spread the hardship around - as I think they would in a no deal situation - then Ireland, and the rest of the EU will be fine. Ireland and other EU countries would have the potential to step into markets left open by the absence of British products. That might not completely balance out the export losses to the UK market, but the EU as a whole could take the loss of the UK market easier than the UK could take the loss of the EU market.

We on the other hand will be alone.

A bit like when all the EU countries rallied to support the Greeks in their time of hardship, you mean?

[Lancasterclaret]

Very good you found a spelling error... wish I was as clever as you.

I don't know anything about doctorates, but I know to pass my viva to read History at Newcastle Uni I had to prepare and argue a point with a distinguished professor of history.

Mine was on Swedish influence in the Baltic continuing pretty much unchanged if Charles XI has lived longer and Charles XII hadn't taken over.

Bit niche, and my viva (is that even the right word?) with the head of history on it was a proper humdinger, but I got my place.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Like I've been asking Lowbankclaret, how do you think it'll play out with the Brexit party?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... k-no-deal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Poorly. But they do not have any MPs. The key is the ERG and also the DUP though there should be enough Labour votes to offset that.

Whether NI can take part in free trade deals elsewhere may be the key point.

[Greenmile]

Very good you found a spelling error... wish I was as clever as you.

So you meant to say “Accept you point of view and accept it on its merit as a position...”, or “Except you point of view and except it on its merit as a position...”? Both are still gobbledygook I’m afraid.

If you’re as repetitive as this when you write your thesis you won’t get very far, either.