Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[RingoMcCartney]

Well done at ignoring what the European Head of Nissan is saying.

Given that most people were aware that Nissan had negotiated support from the UK government it seems unlikely that people were saying that it would be shut by now. I'm sure you can break the habit of a lifetime and find evidence for that though. Can't you?

Well done at wanting to ignore the largest expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed.

Now I know you a disciple of the Church of the Latter Day Little Europeaner, but if you dont , or can't, accept that workers at the Sunderland plant , and the rest of the country were told , that if they , and the country, voted Leave, the Nissan Sunderland, would be shut.

With news of the new Juke rolling off the lines yesterday, despite the country voting leave , I'd have presumed youd have accepted you're remoaner side were simply wrong , with a bit of humility and grace. Even say you're chuffed for the workers in the North East.

Instead, you want indulge in a misery fest and just come across as someone who, at hearing the good news, sounds like theyre crying inside.

[Spijed]

They may still vote BP to spite Labour and especially the LD. The former for its fencing and the for it's ******** to brexit.

That is certainly true, but it wouldn't surprise me either to see Nigel Farage trying to damage Conservative chances in their marginal seats because a deal has been struck.

[AndyClaret]

I just can't see it either.

But I also can't believe that until very recently, we had a Lib Dem MP as well so if they pick the right candidate, it might happen

I think that was a one off in protest over the war in Iraq.

[summitclaret]

Some concrete evidence that we have entered the tunnel?

http://news.sky.com/story/stephen-barcl ... s-11832697" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AlargeClaret]

They may still vote BP to spite Labour and especially the LD. The former for its fence sitting and the latter for it's ******** to brexit.

That’s true but will Farage really stand if a deal is done ( no matter how moderate ) I doubt his ego will let him stay on the sidelines . Lab could lose votes to Libs more than the Tories too

[RingoMcCartney]

I see you've gone for the fingers in your ears shouting "blah, blah I can't hear you" approach again.

Another one enjoying a day of mourning after hearing the Nissan factory is , indeed, still open despite the country and Sunderland ignoring the EU nationalists behind Project Fear and voting Leave.


Expect TheFamilyCat to spend the rest of the day listening to sombre music !

[KateR]

This is literally how a finance bill is passed. How on Earth do you think governments raise and spend taxes? As claretspice eloquently put it the other day, the Supreme Court ruled on a thing done TO parliament. They have no say in what happens IN parliament.

and the opposition do not gang up, form little cliques and try to take every bill to court they don't like something do they, it seems like you are trying to infer that going to the court is normal business of parliament, at least that's what I inferred from your original post.

[RingoMcCartney]

You haven’t answered the question I asked (because it will demonstrate uncertainty Brexit).

I’ll make it really simple for you in the style you like.

Are we leaving with a deal? Yes or No

Whether we leave with or without a deal. Does leaving the EU bring to an end, the uncertainty of whether or not the UK is going to leave the European Union?










Yes or No?

[RingoMcCartney]

There is no "Brexit"crisis and uncertainty.





There is "Still Remaining" crisis and uncertainty.

[Lancasterclaret]

Oh ****

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/11 ... 3736548352" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still no definite proposals from the UK.

Bugger

[summitclaret]

If we get a deal labour would be better supporting it. They can then try and convince people about their other policies.

If they vote against any deal they will loose even more votes in a GE. If they try to move an amendment fir a confirmatory referendum, then they will be absolutely slaughtered at a GE imo especially if such an amendment was passed and thereby delays brexit.

I am not counting any chickens, but to see the faces of Sourby and Grieve etl as they realise that their days as mps are done would be almost as good as a clarets win away at Liverpool or City

[martin_p]

Whether we leave with or without a deal. Does leaving the EU bring to an end, the uncertainty of whether or not the UK is going to leave the European Union?










Yes or No?

Ah, you didn't answer my simple yes/no question then.

Yes, exiting the EU would end the uncertainty, but we haven't and we dont' know when or how it will happen, that's why there is Brexit uncertainty.

[Lancasterclaret]

If we get a deal labour would be better supporting it. They can then try and convince people about their other policies.

If they vote against any deal they will loose even more votes in a GE. If they try to move an amendment fir a confirmatory referendum, then they will be absolutely slaughtered at a GE imo especially if such an amendment was passed and thereby delays brexit.

I am not counting any chickens, but to see the faces of Sourby and Grieve etl as they realise that their days as mps are done would be almost as good as a clarets win away at Liverpool or City

Throw a confirmatory referendum with it Summit and they probably would.

Look, its 10 DUP + 35-40 ERG types versus 19 Lab (possibly 1 Lib Dem Norman Smith).

The balance has to satisfy both.

Not easy at all.

[Lancasterclaret]

And just in case you thought it would be just about the deal, Labour are moving on a 2nd ref

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/11 ... 1616701440" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RingoMcCartney]

What you're saying, and showing to everyone else on here, is you don't understand the meaning of the statement you quoted, or you do and want everyone to misconstrue it to mean something else. Either ignorant, or trying to fool people.

At the entrance to the Visitors Centre of the European Parliament, there is a plaque with these words:


“National sovereignty is the root cause of the most crying evils of our times….The only final remedy for this evil is the federal union of the peoples.”


You dont like me posting the above.

I dont like the fact that eurocrats like Guy Verhofstadt believe in it.

I dont like the fact that eurocrats like Guy Verhofstadt got a standing ovation at the illiberal anti Democrats conference recently when he boasted of his dream of an EU empire.

I'm neither " ignorant nor am I trying to fool anyone . "

You may think think it true, and that's your prerogative.


But dont flatter yourself into thinking I give a monkeys.

[summitclaret]

And they would be daft enough. Its electoral suicide and would just show that it has been all about stopping brexit despite their last manifesto. They are **** scared of a GE

Would probably be the end of JC and we can at last get a credible opposition to keep a cocky BJ in line.

[martin_p]

and the opposition do not gang up, form little cliques and try to take every bill to court they don't like something do they

No they don’t. Any bill will have to be debated and passed by a vote in parliament anyway. Prorogation is something the government does to Parliament in which it has no say, that’s why they took, what they saw as an abuse of that power, to court.

[KateR]

Confederates had real hopes of getting Britain involved because of the cotton industry.

But I don't think it got closer than wishful thinking.

Yeah, once the Mississippi was cut it was all over.

Union control of the seas and the rivers with the navy absolutely decisive.

Have either of you two read Texas by James Michener, lot of good stuff in the middle about the war, cutting the Mississippi and also Texas trying to take it's cotton to Mexico to ship out, where the Union had try and block the land border there as the Ships were waiting to take the cotton to Europe. Also good bit on how S Carolina and other states moved in to Texas for the free land on offer, of course fictional characters but real events and places. I really like the way he writes and thoroughly enjoying it, just up to 1919 at the moment.

[Lancasterclaret]

Have either of you two read Texas by James Michener, lot of good stuff in the middle about the war, cutting the Mississippi and also Texas trying to take it's cotton to Mexico to ship out, where the Union had try and block the land border there as the Ships were waiting to take the cotton to Europe. Also good bit on how S Carolina and other states moved in to Texas for the free land on offer, of course fictional characters but real events and places. I really like the way he writes and thoroughly enjoying it, just up to 1919 at the moment.

Never read anything by him Kate.

Read a couple of histories on the war and a lot on the individual battles but that is about it.

Like all history though, endlessly fascinating and the more you read, the more you know about stuff and the more interested you get.

[AndyClaret]

Throw a confirmatory referendum with it Summit and they probably would.

Look, its 10 DUP + 35-40 ERG types versus 19 Lab (possibly 1 Lib Dem Norman Smith).

The balance has to satisfy both.

Not easy at all.

there won't be 35-40 ERG, a lot are in Government now.

[Devils_Advocate]

At the entrance to the Visitors Centre of the European Parliament, there is a plaque with these words:


“National sovereignty is the root cause of the most crying evils of our times….The only final remedy for this evil is the federal union of the peoples.”


You dont like me posting the above.

I dont like the fact that eurocrats like Guy Verhofstadt believe in it.

I dont like the fact that eurocrats like Guy Verhofstadt got a standing ovation at the illiberal anti Democrats conference recently when he boasted of his dream of an EU empire.

I'm neither " ignorant nor am I trying to fool anyone . "

You may think think it true, and that's your prerogative.

But dont flatter yourself into thinking I give a monkeys.

In the Conservative Brexit Plan there is a statement (point 4) with these words:

"No more spend on domestic priorities like the NHS"

[Spijed]

And they would be daft enough. Its electoral suicide and would just show that it has been all about stopping brexit despite their last manifesto. They are **** scared of a GE

Would probably be the end of JC and we can at last get a credible opposition to keep a cocky BJ in line.

According to Mr Campbell, Jeremy Corbyn will stand down if he loses next election.

[AndyClaret]

Oh ****

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/11 ... 3736548352" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still no definite proposals from the UK.

Bugger

Just because he's out of the loop doesn't mean there aren't any. They wouldn't be entering negotiations otherwise.

[RingoMcCartney]

Ah, you didn't answer my simple yes/no question then.

Yes, exiting the EU would end
the uncertainty, but we haven't and we dont' know when or how it will happen, that's why there is Brexit uncertainty.

So you admit that "exiting the EU would END the uncertainty"

Then, you admit that "but we haven't"

So in other words we are "still Remaining."

Therefore it's the "still Remaining" that is prolonging the uncertainty that , by your very own words Marty " " exiting would end "



Arrange these words into a well known phrase -


"Own petard by your hoist"

[Lancasterclaret]

there won't be 35-40 ERG, a lot are in Government now.

Yeah, I get that but I assume they have principles as well which they won't shift from.

Bit worried to be honest that the UK appear to have no concrete proposals.

[RingoMcCartney]

In the Conservative Brexit Plan there is a statement (point 4) with these words:

"No more spend on domestic priorities like the NHS"

Super


You're under no obligation to vote for the conservatives.

[summitclaret]

Looks like Julie Cooper has a big decision to make. Her voters or her career as a shadow minister or even as a candidate. Bet she abstains. At least that would be one less vote against democracy.

[Lancasterclaret]

Just because he's out of the loop doesn't mean there aren't any. They wouldn't be entering negotiations otherwise.

Oh there is some give on the UK side on something to do with NI and customs.

That much is clear, but nobody has anything more than that, and if there were concrete proposals, one or both sides would have made sure they would have leaked by now.

the fact they haven't leaked from the UK side suggests that any ideas are controversial at the very least.

[summitclaret]

Yeah, I get that but I assume they have principles as well which they won't shift from.

Bit worried to be honest that the UK appear to have no concrete proposals.

The majority rightly last time judged that May's gov would fall without the DUP. It matters much less now as a GE is coming soon.

[martin_p]

So you admit that "exiting the EU would END the uncertainty"

Then, you admit that "but we haven't"

So in other words we are "still Remaining."

Therefore it's the "still Remaining" that is prolonging the uncertainty that , by your very own words Marty " " exiting would end "



Arrange these words into a well known phrase -


"Own petard by your hoist"

So if we were remaining forever would there be uncertainty? So what’s causing the uncertainty?

Actually, I don’t know why I’m bothering with this, sometimes you’ve just got to call a spade a spade. Wrongo, you’re terminally thick!

[martin_p]

there won't be 35-40 ERG, a lot are in Government now.

Word from the ERG is it depends on whether the DUP thinks the deal is ok.

[AndrewJB]

At the entrance to the Visitors Centre of the European Parliament, there is a plaque with these words:


“National sovereignty is the root cause of the most crying evils of our times….The only final remedy for this evil is the federal union of the peoples.”


You dont like me posting the above.

I dont like the fact that eurocrats like Guy Verhofstadt believe in it.

I dont like the fact that eurocrats like Guy Verhofstadt got a standing ovation at the illiberal anti Democrats conference recently when he boasted of his dream of an EU empire.

I'm neither " ignorant nor am I trying to fool anyone . "

You may think think it true, and that's your prerogative.


But dont flatter yourself into thinking I give a monkeys.

I'm very pleased you're posting a quote from a British diplomat that underlines the key role the EU and forerunners have played in maintaining peace in Europe. That's the same EU that fosters minority language rights, and celebrates and encourages diversity in culture within Europe (so very obviously not interested in making countries disappear, but conflict between countries disappear).

You are right - no longer ignorant, and no longer fooling anyone.

[AndyClaret]

Oh there is some give on the UK side on something to do with NI and customs.

That much is clear, but nobody has anything more than that, and if there were concrete proposals, one or both sides would have made sure they would have leaked by now.

the fact they haven't leaked from the UK side suggests that any ideas are controversial at the very least.

They haven't leaked from either side, nobody knows.

[Lancasterclaret]

Riingo

Andyclaret posted a poll on here which he admitted he hadn't realised it was a fake poll. He apologised and that was the end of it.

Its not a bad strategy when you are completely in the wrong about something.

[Lancasterclaret]

They haven't leaked from either side, nobody knows.

Guess we will see.

But its got to be something that will cause problems with DUP/ERG.

[KateR]

“Common sense” is just what stupid people claim to have when they have no facts to back up their beliefs. “Common sense” tells us that the sun revolves around a flat Earth. It tells us that a roulette wheel which has come up red 20 times in a row is bound to come up black next time.

Einstein is alleged to have said “Common sense is nothing more than a deposit of prejudices laid down by the mind before you reach eighteen.”

I would agree that many brexiters appear to have “common sense” in spades.

You're just like IT, pompous, lauding it from your pulpit of the font of all knowledge, bombastic, look at me, well let me tell you we flat earthers have nothing to fear except sphere itself.

[Lancasterclaret]

DUP shitting it

https://twitter.com/JamesERothwell/stat ... 6071486464" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With good reason as well, they are the most obvious of sacrificial lambs at the moment.

[RingoMcCartney]

Riingo

Andyclaret posted a poll on here which he admitted he hadn't realised it was a fake poll. He apologised and that was the end of it.

Its not a bad strategy when you are completely in the wrong about something.

Physician , for God's sake, please please please heal thyself

[Spiral]

and the opposition do not gang up, form little cliques and try to take every bill to court they don't like something do they, it seems like you are trying to infer that going to the court is normal business of parliament, at least that's what I inferred from your original post.

I don't mean this in a condescending way but you seem to have formed quite strong opinions on something you clearly don't fully understand. You, me, parliamentarians, none of us can take the govt to court for passing a law we don't like. It's not why the court exists. You mentioned NHS and police spending. This is all debated and voted on at multiple stages in the way any other bill is debated. In order for it to be approved it needs to be voted on and passed like any other bill. (Although I believe there are some limitations to what the Lords can do with a Finance bill, but that's trivial for this point). The govt can't spend a damn penny of our money without it being voted on in a budget. This is such a fundamental mechanism of government that it's depressing to read something so misguided.

[Lancasterclaret]

Physician , for God's sake, please please please heal thyself

I'm not the one quoting something hilariously out of context.

You are about as wrong on this as its possible to be and i've got this awful feeling that you don't know why.

[KateR]

Never read anything by him Kate.

Read a couple of histories on the war and a lot on the individual battles but that is about it.

Like all history though, endlessly fascinating and the more you read, the more you know about stuff and the more interested you get.

He writes history but with fictional characters in real places and events, I like this style of writing, all his book are long/thick which I also like, tried e-reader but not for me, love the feel of a good book. Chesapeake, Hawaii, but really enjoying Texas, I suppose because of the numerous places in it I have visited it helps. I also like all history a lot regardless of where and when.

[aggi]

Well done at wanting to ignore the largest expression of democracy this nation has ever witnessed.

Now I know you a disciple of the Church of the Latter Day Little Europeaner, but if you dont , or can't, accept that workers at the Sunderland plant , and the rest of the country were told , that if they , and the country, voted Leave, the Nissan Sunderland, would be shut.

With news of the new Juke rolling off the lines yesterday, despite the country voting leave , I'd have presumed youd have accepted you're remoaner side were simply wrong , with a bit of humility and grace. Even say you're chuffed for the workers in the North East.

Instead, you want indulge in a misery fest and just come across as someone who, at hearing the good news, sounds like theyre crying inside.

So no evidence then. That is a shocker.

[Greenmile]

You're just like IT, pompous, lauding it from your pulpit of the font of all knowledge, bombastic, look at me, well let me tell you we flat earthers have nothing to fear except sphere itself.

Nice pun. Well worth a like from me. The rest of your post, less so, given that it’s basically just personal abuse with no real content.

[AndyClaret]

Guess we will see.

But its got to be something that will cause problems with DUP/ERG.

It's a fine balancing act that's for sure.

[Lancasterclaret]

He writes history but with fictional characters in real places and events, I like this style of writing, all his book are long/thick which I also like, tried e-reader but not for me, love the feel of a good book. Chesapeake, Hawaii, but really enjoying Texas, I suppose because of the numerous places in it I have visited it helps. I also like all history a lot regardless of where and when.

You can't beat a good book, but I am a fan of my Kindle as well.

Got a sci-fi one next, and then something on the Battle of Arnhem.

[RingoMcCartney]

So if we were remaining forever would there be uncertainty? So what’s causing the uncertainty?

Actually, I don’t know why I’m bothering with this, sometimes you’ve just got to call a spade a spade. Wrongo, you’re terminally thick

Who said

Yes, exiting the EU would end the uncertainty,

And now, who's asking,

So if we were remaining forever would there be uncertainty?

To which the answer is - Yes.



Then you ask -

So what’s causing the uncertainty?

To which the answer must simply be-

"Still Remaining" Marty, you shooting yourself in the foot, clown!!

[RingoMcCartney]

So no evidence then. That is a shocker.

The new Juke rolled off the production line of a Sunderland factory that, according to aggi an the rest of the Little Europeaners should have closed by now.








Dry your eyes mate.

[martin_p]

Who said




And now, who's asking,





To which the answer is - Yes.



Then you ask -





To which the answer must simply be-

"Still Remaining" Marty, you shooting yourself in the foot, clown!!

So you think if we were remaining forever there’d be uncertainty. I stand by my previous comment on your intelligence.

[RingoMcCartney]

I'm not the one quoting something hilariously out of context.

You are about as wrong on this as its possible to be and i've got this awful feeling that you don't know why.

At the entrance to the Visitors Centre of the European Parliament, there is a plaque with these words:


“National sovereignty is the root cause of the most crying evils of our times….The only final remedy for this evil is the federal union of the peoples.”









Why do evangelical europhile zealots hate the above?

[AndrewJB]

The trouble with lefties is that they talk sense one minute then lurch into a silly rant that contains no reality - Extinction Rebellion are perfect examples, as is this reply to me.

First of all, Barnier is not part of a sovereign nation, that is a big distinction, but I have already said on here that I don’t agree with the Cummings approach to public threatening.

On Johnson - trying to accuse him of being thick. His French teacher called him a gifted child. He won a scholarship to Eton entirely on merit (despite disruptive family trauma in the preceding years, and yes, he was otherwise privileged). He is clearly a very clever guy but one who doesn’t conform to many of societies norms and which some folk cannot see past. Even if he goes ahead with his plans to leave the EU in an orderly manner, pile money into the north and raise the living wage massively, people still won’t accept it.

He also has that rare face to face ability to make (almost all) others feel special, as Bill Clinton did, and if he manages to keep putting the UKs interests first, rather than making selfish decisions that backfire (a risk I confess), he could do very well.

If Barnier spoke on behalf of twenty-seven sovereign nations making threats you'd be far more upset about it than the comparatively relaxed pragmatism you've shown in the face of Number 10 doing it (you could say it's not Number 10, but then Number 10 should be releasing a statement denouncing it, and then firing whoever said it, so Number 10 is at least complicit).

Johnson thick? I didn't say that. I questioned whether he is in fact "far more intelligent than May", as you asserted. A good leader doesn't have to be extremely intelligent, but instead have a strong mix of qualities: Memory, Imagination, Reason, Ethics, Common Sense, and Intuition. Johnson is strong in the first two, possibly the first three, but those things count for nothing if they aren't used alongside ethics, common sense, and intuition. Consider his grand schemes - the bridges, and the airport (and the cable car that hardly anyone uses). Good imagination, but no common sense. It's what you get with entitled rich men: "I come up with the grand ideas, and the little people put them into practice for me". This is why I don't consider him to be suitable as PM. Perhaps the last word on Johnson's intelligence should go to his house master at Eton (as read by Rory Stewart): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politi ... tory-party" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;