Soft Brexit defeated

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:11 pm

IT is just like this guy

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OKnGFuthtFM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:12 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Were they a burden when they didn't repay their student loans when they ended up working below the repayment threshold?

How many end up working below the repayment threshold? And what was the repayment threshold prior to tuition fees?

(Hint: The second question is sarcastic and rhetorical, don't answer it)

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:14 pm

Sidney1st wrote:I'm not the one disregarding the intelligence and ability of people without degrees.

Who's the stupid one again?

You have to be pretty stupid to think that's what i'm doing.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:15 pm

Lol. I see you people are trying to personalise this conversation

The last resort of the defeated.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:17 pm

Education and intelligence are 2 entirely different things.

Take George Osborne.

Highly educated.

However.........

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:19 pm

Defeated in what?

The apparently better researchers are the ones who were defeated.

The thickos won.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:20 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:You have to be pretty stupid to think that's what i'm doing.

Did you, or did you not state that people with degrees were more likely to make an apparently informed vote than those without degrees?

Sounds like you were disregarding the intelligence of people who don't have degrees.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:25 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Lol. I see you people are trying to personalise this conversation The last resort of the defeated.

I think you'll find the last resort of the defeated, is to demand a 2nd referendum, Imploding aliases

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:32 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Did you, or did you not state that people with degrees were more likely to make an apparently informed vote than those without degrees?

Sounds like you were disregarding the intelligence of people who don't have degrees.

You don't have to be intelligent to be capable of informing yourself.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:32 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:I think you'll find the last resort of the defeated, is to demand a 2nd referendum, Imploding aliases

Good, cos i haven't done that. In fact i've been quite explicit in my opposition to a 2nd referendum without certain contitions that exclude the possibility of a 3rd, and that the result of any 2nd referendum be made legally-binding by having it automatically trigger A50.

So thanks for admitting that i'm not defeated.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:37 pm

What's your degree in Turtle?

Is it relevant to your chosen career choice?
I vaguely remember you being a former soldier, so I'm referring to after you left the army.

pureclaret · Post by **pureclaret** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:38 pm

I feel that a high percentage of people who have got degrees are more likely to have a higher social idealistic views, perhaps sitting in so many lectures talking about what might be possible if everyone did the same would fill them with dreams of what they would wish for.
Where as a lot of the people who have not had the opportunity to go to university have possibly had to develop or have become that of a pragmatic realistic approach.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:40 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Good, cos i haven't done that. In fact i've been quite explicit in my opposition to a 2nd referendum without certain contitions that exclude the possibility of a 3rd, and that the result of any 2nd referendum be made legally-binding by having it automatically trigger A50.

So thanks for admitting that i'm not defeated.

So you don't want a 2nd referendum. But you do want a 2nd referendum but with strings attached!!!

Proof , were it needed, that you're defeated, with degree in shooting yourself in the foot, idiot!!!

Have a great weekend logging in and out!!

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:42 pm

Just out of interest, what research were brexiteers able to do? The Leave argument was purely based on conjecture, it was a concept, with no supporting evidence.

Even half the stuff brexiteers were saying, such as staying in the single market/having the 'norwegian' system has been about-turned on.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:42 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:

You disagree? Then prove your point. the search function is your friend.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:46 pm

pureclaret wrote:I feel that a high percentage of people who have got degrees are more likely to have a higher social idealistic views, perhaps sitting in so many lectures talking about what might be possible if everyone did the same would fill them with dreams of what they would wish for.
Where as a lot of the people who have not had the opportunity to go to university have possibly had to develop or have become that of a pragmatic realistic approach.

What?

You think that sitting in lectures pushes everyone into doing the same thing? How the **** are you coming to that conclusion?

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:14 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Education and intelligence are 2 entirely different things.

Take George Osborne.

Highly educated.

However.........

It's a fact that if you want to succeed in life, common sense is far more important than intelligence.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:22 pm

Apparently a degree is more important, or so it feels like on here.

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:31 pm

Only a degree holder would say, if only to justify wasting 3 years of their life on a degree in media studies.

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:33 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:You don't have to be intelligent to be capable of informing yourself.

Correct. So why are you placing so much importance on have a degree?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:36 pm

Turtle hasn't told us what degree they hold yet.....

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:40 pm

BennyD wrote:Correct. So why are you placing so much importance on have a degree?

I'm not. I'm placing importance on the fact that those people have proven themselves capable of informing themselves and have demonstrable research skills. It's not the degree that's important, it's the skill.

So who do you think is more likely to be better informed. Someone with proven research skills, or someone with unproven research skills?

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:51 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:You'll have to help me out with this scary thing metaphor im supposed to have used.

I quoted it for you. Third post down on the second page.

You may not have realised you were using metaphorical language but you were.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:13 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'm not. I'm placing importance on the fact that those people have proven themselves capable of informing themselves and have demonstrable research skills. It's not the degree that's important, it's the skill.

So who do you think is more likely to be better informed. Someone with proven research skills, or someone with unproven research skills?

Who's more better informed?
The person who's done the research regardless of their level of education of course.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:19 pm

Sidney1st wrote:The thickos won.

QFT

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:22 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Who's more better informed?
The person who's done the research regardless of their level of education of course.

Who is more likely to have done the research (all other thing being equal)? Someone who has demonstrated their research skills by obtaining a degree, or someone who hasn't?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:26 pm

Greenmile wrote:Who is more likely to have done the research (all other thing being equal)? Someone who has demonstrated their research skills by obtaining a degree, or someone who hasn't?

Possibly someone with a degree, but it isn't a given that they would though.

In fact I'd say its more of an assumption that they would, more than anything else.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:37 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Probably someone with a degree.

Fixed your post.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:39 pm

Thanks, I probably got it wrong because I don't have a degree.

I notice you haven't confirmed yet if you do..
Don't be shy.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:47 pm

(see below)

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:50 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Possibly someone with a degree, but it isn't a given that they would though.

In fact I'd say its more of an assumption that they would, more than anything else.

If it's a mathematical probability, then spread across a large enough sample group (e.g. 30million or so) it means (all else being equal) that someone with a degree was more likely to make an informed decision than someone without one. It seems to me that this was the point IT was trying to make. That's not disregarding the intelligence of people without degrees.

(not that I would presume to speak for anyone else, unless you're Ringo, in which case we're the same person anyway

)

There's a similar but opposite point to be made about voters' age and "life experience", but I don't think I'd accuse those of using it as disregarding the intelligence of the youth (although I've seen many on the right using this argument re Corbyn).

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:59 pm

My father in law is a massive arch brexiteer.

He tells me that we should listen to him because he's had greater experience in this (ie lived longer). I totally respect his views on the topic, but don't like the implication that me at 44 should listen to him just because he's 71.

I regard my research and knowledge of the subject greater than his dislike of the EU and his arguments for leaving.

Does that make me more intelligent than him? Nope

Does that make him more intelligent than me? Nope

Point is that if you have done your research into the EU, then it doesn't matter what life experiences you have or haven't had, you are informed, and as long as you've made that decision as informed, then I've no probs with it.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:09 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Thanks, I probably got it wrong because I don't have a degree.

I notice you haven't confirmed yet if you do..
Don't be shy.

If it had any relevence whatsoever i'd have mentioned it already. In fact i've mentioned it in at least one previous thread where it was relevent so happy hunting.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:17 pm

I'm 10 year's when we are still doing well and the rest of Europe is overun with economic migrants, people will thank the thickos for their fantastic common sense.

You really need to listen the common people and not the money lot.

This all subject to us properly protecting our borders from the current and future invasion.

We should be doing much more to help people to improve their quality of life where they live now. Our culture is being destroyed and the common people came see it.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:19 pm

Yeah, so attempting to set the clock back forty years will magically save British culture?

Got it.

So I'm guessing you are massively in favour of us increasing foreign aid then?

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:21 pm

Yes. I don't think people really understand what is going on.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:23 pm

Tolerance is part of British culture

Freedom of religion is part of British culture

Freedom of speech is part of British culture

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:26 pm

I mean, no one seriously thinks we can turn the clock back to a era where, well, history remembers a lot less fondly than you lot appear to do.

Do you?

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:30 pm

I agree. The people that are here now need to live in harmony. However we are a generation or so away from that not being possible.

The common people sent a message in the referendum and that
should be heard. Even the Labour leadership get it. Why don't you ?

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:35 pm

We've never really allowed ourselves to integrate into the EU, just as well get out.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:41 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Tolerance is part of British culture

Freedom of religion is part of British culture

Freedom of speech is part of British culture

STOP TALKING BRITAIN DOWN!

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:42 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:If it had any relevence whatsoever i'd have mentioned it already. In fact i've mentioned it in at least one previous thread where it was relevent so happy hunting.

So on a thread where the importance of degrees and the skills they allegedly give you isn't a relevant place to tell me if you've got a degree?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:43 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I mean, no one seriously thinks we can turn the clock back to a era where, well, history remembers a lot less fondly than you lot appear to do.

Do you?

"If you want a Nigger for a neighbour vote Liberal or Labour" - A Conservative campaign slogan of the 60s or 70s.

Because political correctness is killing this country. amirite?

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:43 pm

I have never liked the federal EU. However they need support to control the external borders of Europe from economic migrants. I don't mean genuine refugees.

This is a massive issue and heads in the sand won't help .

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:46 pm

Sidney1st wrote:So on a thread where the importance of degrees and the skills they allegedly give you isn't a relevant place to tell me if you've got a degree?

Whether or not i have a degree is irrelevent to the fact that degree holders more likely have the skills of a degree holder than someone who doesn't hold a degree. It's really simple if you were willing to think about it.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:54 pm

I merely asked you a question, I'll just make an assumption then instead.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:20 pm

It's amazing how angry certain posters get if you mention the unemployed

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:22 pm

A degree doesnt give you any mental leverage in an argument if you live in your parents box room. Just saying

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:32 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'm not. I'm placing importance on the fact that those people have proven themselves capable of informing themselves and have demonstrable research skills. It's not the degree that's important, it's the skill.

So who do you think is more likely to be better informed. Someone with proven research skills, or someone with unproven research skills?

As I've said, it doesn't always follow. I will put myself (non-graduate) against a number of graduates I know and I won't be found to be lacking. You are being a bit sweeping in your deductions; non-grads aren't always stupid, or lacking in skill.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:35 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:"If you want a Nigger for a neighbour vote Liberal or Labour" - A Conservative campaign slogan of the 60s or 70s.

Because political correctness is killing this country. amirite?

Source?