Junckers vision of a United States of Europe.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:16 pm

Stayingup wrote:FFS the commission ( the power) isn't
Grow up.

Neither is our government's cabinet. So is our government undemocratic?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:33 pm

Ryan Air told - "'Respect our rules' as the EU wades in, after airline cancels hundreds of flights!

The budget airline has angered travellers after announcing plans to axe between 40 and 50 flights per day until the end of October.

The fiasco will cost O'learys shabby outfit millions of his beloved Euros!!!

And all this from the cheapskate airline. Who's boss probably pleased the Remonars on this message board when he hysterically claimed that, “There is not going to be an interim agreement, there is not going to be a legal basis, we will be cancelling flights, we will be cancelling people’s holidays for summer of 2019.”

"“This is going to be a real mess,” Mr O’Leary said, before adding, “Brexit will be one of the great economic suicide notes in history.”

That was early August. Fast forward to today and -

A European Commission spokesman told a press conference in Brussels: "Airlines operating in the EU need to respect the European rules.

"Passengers whose flights are cancelled have a comprehensive set of rights. We have to check if all this is respected by Ryanair.

"For instance, you are entitled to reimbursement if you are not warned two weeks in advance."

Poetic justice for the arrogant little democracy denier, who's constantly called for the referendum result to be overturned or ignored

Hoisted by his own petard. RESULT!!

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:35 pm

Stayingup wrote:FFS the commission ( the power) isn't
Grow up.

Well said that man!

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:37 pm

Think Kazakhstan, think UEFA, think Junckers and a United States of.....

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:54 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:There are a whole bunch of things the Conservative Party is more interested in that what is best for the country.

If people didn't already know it, then the last few years should have really rammed the point home. That the Conservative party is completely disinterested about the interests of the country. Their only purpose is to protect and preserve their party at any cost.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:30 pm

Jmg, I think you mean 'uninterested' not 'disinterested '. The latter means 'unbiased ', the former gives the idea of not caring about.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:30 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Its really simple. The Government talk to the EU, agree a transition period, and hey presto! The economy doesn't tank, us remainers are happy because we are doing it sensibly, and the brexiteers are happy because we are still leaving.

I would agree that would be a sensible first step in 2019.

The trouble is, say our net payment is £10bn (I can't remember). If we then offer £10bn from 2019 to 2022 this would be no different financially to before despite us being partially out (in the single market but out of many things, in increasing numbers over the 3 years).

We would have lots of stuff to set up, new customs arrangements, new quangos, and this will all cost money, so it makes sense to pay it out of the saving from 2019-2022 which means there should be one. Us and the EU should share any financial hit in 2019-2022, after all, it's our money they are currently spending elsewhere and it's that that our voters have called time on.

I thus think the sensible deal you propose should be around £5bn per annum for 2-3 years, any more than that would be wrong. I suspect this is where Boris has got annoyed. The EU will kick up a fuss, and will hopefully agree eventually, but otherwise we will be out of pocket even before any economic slowdown. I am hoping Boris agrees that we need a transition but that it shouldn't be OTT. If he does, there could be a consensus on it. Post Brexit post transition, I think he's spot on with his vision, as long as there is some social protection to sit alongisde the free market, lower regulation and lower tax society he proposes.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:36 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
The rebate is a complicated VAT based formula negotiated by Mrs T because of the CAP and how it affected us adversely. Part of the formula is the Euro Sterling exchange rate, so to put it simply, it is not in the UK's full control. They cannot budget for it with certainty, nor can they spend it with certainty. Boris was right - the full £350m is not in our control and would be.

Where he is being a bit shady, as they all are, is that some of the £350m is more in our control than others, but NONE is in our full control. The UK Statistics guy was, simply, wrong. He wouldn't have been if he had given more context and told more truths, such as the above.
.

I'm afraid whichever way you try to spin it, we've never paid more than £276 million a week to the EU, so we can't possibly be suddenly £350 million per week better off. This is what the official statistics and the Treasury tell us. Even the Daily Telegraph tells us this.
We can leave aside the £110 million per week that we get back if you want, though it's illogical to do so because farmers etc will still want their subsidy.
So - last year £276 million per week went to Brussels, of which over £110 million came back to us, but was earmarked by the EU rather than us for certain things. So if Johnson said that we could choose to spend £276 / week on the NHS, he could do so. It would be unrealistic, because he knows that much of that "returned" £110 million is already spoken for, but it wouldn't be a lie.
Since £350 million /day has never ever been sent from the Treasury to Brussels it is mathematically impossible for it to come back. The maximum that would be available is £276 million.
Speculation about what the figure might be in the future is relevant because we won't be in the EU, so the only figure we can use is the most recent one. £276m gross £161m net.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:48 pm

It's £350m gross, I saw a Treasury paper today, the rebate is part of what makes it net.

What you say I agree with generally though I never said we paid more than £276m to the EU, nor did Boris. I also never said we would be £350m better off, nor did Boris.

What I said was that the whole £350m isn't fully in our control, including the rebate. It goes up, it goes down, none of which we can control.

I'm not saying Boris wasn't playing games by mentioning it, I'm saying the statistics expert was wrong to say what he did (given he is a very clever chap, I will assume he is biased and knows what he is doing, which is why Gove made his comment about experts in the first place a year ago).

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:19 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Ryan Air told - "'Respect our rules' as the EU wades in, after airline cancels hundreds of flights!

The budget airline has angered travellers after announcing plans to axe between 40 and 50 flights per day until the end of October.

The fiasco will cost O'learys shabby outfit millions of his beloved Euros!!!

And all this from the cheapskate airline. Who's boss probably pleased the Remonars on this message board when he hysterically claimed that, “There is not going to be an interim agreement, there is not going to be a legal basis, we will be cancelling flights, we will be cancelling people’s holidays for summer of 2019.”

"“This is going to be a real mess,” Mr O’Leary said, before adding, “Brexit will be one of the great economic suicide notes in history.”

That was early August. Fast forward to today and -

A European Commission spokesman told a press conference in Brussels: "Airlines operating in the EU need to respect the European rules.

"Passengers whose flights are cancelled have a comprehensive set of rights. We have to check if all this is respected by Ryanair.

"For instance, you are entitled to reimbursement if you are not warned two weeks in advance."

Poetic justice for the arrogant little democracy denier, who's constantly called for the referendum result to be overturned or ignored

Hoisted by his own petard. RESULT!!

You're celebrating the EU protecting RyanAir customers as a means to stick it to Remain voters?

Serious question, are you OK?

Dazzler · Post by **Dazzler** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:54 am

Reminds me of this funny tale from Rhod Gilbert.

https://youtu.be/OISGykO6Z7U" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:09 am

Oh sorry, I didn't realise the Nazis were responsible for dragging the world into the 1914-18 world war. The Nazis were just another bunch of Germans trying to achieve the same ambition, and that's where your whole argument falls down

Every nation is guilty for what happened in WWI Benny. The system of alliances and the desire for war make the conflict inevitable. That is very well known and a widely accepted historical fact.

I've no idea what your beef is with the Germans, but its not doing your argument any good.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:33 am

The Rhod Gilbert sketch is brilliant.

So is Rabid Ringo's latest tantrum/meltdown/orgasm.

RingoMcCartney wrote:Ryan Air told - "'Respect our rules' as the EU wades in, after airline cancels hundreds of flights!

The budget airline has angered travellers after announcing plans to axe between 40 and 50 flights per day until the end of October.

The fiasco will cost O'learys shabby outfit millions of his beloved Euros!!!

And all this from the cheapskate airline. Who's boss probably pleased the Remonars on this message board when he hysterically claimed that, “There is not going to be an interim agreement, there is not going to be a legal basis, we will be cancelling flights, we will be cancelling people’s holidays for summer of 2019.”

"“This is going to be a real mess,” Mr O’Leary said, before adding, “Brexit will be one of the great economic suicide notes in history.”

That was early August. Fast forward to today and -

A European Commission spokesman told a press conference in Brussels: "Airlines operating in the EU need to respect the European rules.

"Passengers whose flights are cancelled have a comprehensive set of rights. We have to check if all this is respected by Ryanair.

"For instance, you are entitled to reimbursement if you are not warned two weeks in advance."

Poetic justice for the arrogant little democracy denier, who's constantly called for the referendum result to be overturned or ignored

Hoisted by his own petard. RESULT!!

He's not right in the head, this lad.

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:16 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Ryan Air told - "'Respect our rules' as the EU wades in, after airline cancels hundreds of flights!

The budget airline has angered travellers after announcing plans to axe between 40 and 50 flights per day until the end of October.

The fiasco will cost O'learys shabby outfit millions of his beloved Euros!!!

And all this from the cheapskate airline. Who's boss probably pleased the Remonars on this message board when he hysterically claimed that, “There is not going to be an interim agreement, there is not going to be a legal basis, we will be cancelling flights, we will be cancelling people’s holidays for summer of 2019.”

"“This is going to be a real mess,” Mr O’Leary said, before adding, “Brexit will be one of the great economic suicide notes in history.”

That was early August. Fast forward to today and -

A European Commission spokesman told a press conference in Brussels: "Airlines operating in the EU need to respect the European rules.

"Passengers whose flights are cancelled have a comprehensive set of rights. We have to check if all this is respected by Ryanair.

"For instance, you are entitled to reimbursement if you are not warned two weeks in advance."

Poetic justice for the arrogant little democracy denier, who's constantly called for the referendum result to be overturned or ignored

Hoisted by his own petard. RESULT!!

Whoosh

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:21 am

There'll be no whooshing if you're going by Ryanair.....

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:46 am

Why is it only happening to Ryan air?

Cos there a cheap skate outfit who don't pay their pilots emough.

While Mr Remoaner Oleary was at his shambolic press conference claiming we have enough pilots but we don't have enough pilots! His pilots were having meetings to discuss industrial action!!!!

You don't think his pro EU stance and his sponsorship of have a over supply of cheap labour is a coincidence?!

Well it looks like it's bit him on his, privileged, millionaire anti brexit @rse !!

What a good do!!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:50 am

Amazing

bedfords · Post by **bedfords** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:52 am

Every airline has to pay compensation at some stage.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:53 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Why is it only happening to Ryan air?

Cos there a cheap skate outfit who don't pay their pilots emough.

While Mr Remoaner Oleary was at his shambolic press conference claiming we have enough pilots but we don't have enough pilots! His pilots were having meetings to discuss industrial action!!!!

You don't think his pro EU stance and his sponsorship of have a over supply of cheap labour is a coincidence?!

Well it looks like it's bit him on his, privileged, millionaire anti brexit @rse !!

What a good do!!

You've posted this on two threads now.

Why?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:19 am

"I think our Brexit negotiating team would end up paying full price on a DFS Sofa"
- Frankie Boyle

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:30 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:You've posted this on two threads now.

Why?

Cos i love it when Remoaners predict doom n gloom and events out flank their whining n self serving anti referendum result garbage.

Oleary the hysterical Remoaner- "March 2019 there'll be no flights between the UK and Europe."

Reality - quite possibly if they're YOUR f****** planes Mr anti democracy

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:37 am

only an absolute tw@t could be celebrating thousands of people having flights cancelled, travel/holiday plans disrupted and extra expense incurred as a victory for brexit.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:39 am

They shouldn't be flying with a blatant remainer though.

Farage air is the way Ringo flies

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:41 am

Ringo never leaves the country, silly

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:50 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Oleary the hysterical Remoaner- "March 2019 there'll be no flights between the UK and Europe."

Now shall we look at what O'Leary actually said?, which is rather different:
“There is a real prospect, and we need to deal with this, that there are going to be no flights between the UK and Europe for a period of weeks, months beyond March 2019.
“There is not going to be an interim agreement, there is not going to be a legal basis, we will be cancelling flights, we will be cancelling people’s holidays for summer of 2019.”
I'm no fan of O'Leary, but there is factual basis for his statement. In the scenario where we simply walked away from the EU with absolutely no deal of any kind, then we wouldn't have any agreement to fly planes in and out of Europe. This is why - where agreements can't be made before March 2019 transitional arrangements will have to be made in order to maintain current flight schedules. This is basically what he said.

With regards to the current Ryanair fiasco. One benefit we currently enjoy within the EU is that flights within the EU are protected, whereas when you fly outside the EU the same financial protections are not there.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:56 am

quoonbeatz wrote:only an absolute tw@t could be celebrating thousands of people having flights cancelled, travel/holiday plans disrupted and extra expense incurred as a victory for brexit.

Who said it was a victory for brexit!?

It's simply Karma.!!

However.

A recent poll showed 22 % of Remoaners would want Britain to suffer economically so they could be proven their opinion was right. So that's a couple of million wishing ill for the entire nation!

So if you want absolute tw@ts !? ..........

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:01 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Who said it was a victory for brexit!?

It's simply Karma.!!

However.

A recent poll showed 22 % of Remoaners would want Britain to suffer economically so they could be proven their opinion was right. So that's a couple of million wishing ill for the entire nation!

So if you want absolute tw@ts !? ..........

100% of Brexiters were happy for Britain to suffer economically so they could be proven right.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:02 am

nil_desperandum wrote:Now shall we look at what O'Leary actually said?, which is rather different:
“There is a real prospect, and we need to deal with this, that there are going to be no flights between the UK and Europe for a period of weeks, months beyond March 2019.
“There is not going to be an interim agreement, there is not going to be a legal basis, we will be cancelling flights, we will be cancelling people’s holidays for summer of 2019.”
I'm no fan of O'Leary, but there is factual basis for his statement. In the scenario where we simply walked away from the EU with absolutely no deal of any kind, then we wouldn't have any agreement to fly planes in and out of Europe. This is why - where agreements can't be made before March 2019 transitional arrangements will have to be made in order to maintain current flight schedules. This is basically what he said.

With regards to the current Ryanair fiasco. One benefit we currently enjoy within the EU is that flights within the EU are protected, whereas when you fly outside the EU the same financial protections are not there.

In summary-

Oleary - "the sky's going to fall in! The sky's going to fall in!"

Pay your fines. And stop whining!

Couldn't have happened to less likable Remoaner!

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:04 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Who said it was a victory for brexit!?

It's simply Karma.!!

However.

A recent poll showed 22 % of Remoaners would want Britain to suffer economically so they could be proven their opinion was right. So that's a couple of million wishing ill for the entire nation!

So if you want absolute tw@ts !? ..........

Is the the same poll that showed 61% of Leave voters considered significant damage to the British economy would be worth it to get us out of the EU and 39% thought it would be worth them or their family members losing their jobs?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:05 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:100% of Brexiters were happy for Britain to suffer economically so they could be proven right.

In your opinion.

But not bona fide opionion polls eh!?

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:07 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Who said it was a victory for brexit!?

It's simply Karma.!!

you. you are revelling about problems with a company who's boss backed remain.

lets just get this straight; you are telling the thousands of people who are stuck abroad, who now have to change travel plans, rebook flights, take extra time off work, change childcare arrangements and incur further expenses that its karma?

karma for what?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:09 am

Tall Paul wrote:Is the the same poll that showed 61% of Leave voters considered significant damage to the British economy would be worth it to get us out of the EU and 39% thought it would be worth them or their family members losing their jobs?

Yes.

But there's a difference between saying it's a price worth paying if it were to happen. But not actually WANTING it. And simply WANTING it. One is weighing up the pros and potential cons. The other is needy economic masochism But I doubt you'll admit it or even be able to work it out.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:10 am

quoonbeatz wrote:you. you are revelling about problems with a company who's boss backed remain.

lets just get this straight; you are telling the thousands of people who are stuck abroad, who now have to change travel plans, rebook flights, take extra time off work, change childcare arrangements and incur further expenses that its karma?

karma for what?

Whatever.

Keep up the mock virtue signalling!

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:13 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Whatever.

Keep up the mock virtue signalling!

that's a meaningless post, i'm afraid.

i'll ask again.

karma for what?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:19 am

quoonbeatz wrote:that's a meaningless post, i'm afraid.

i'll ask again.

karma for what?

Rabbit hole?

No thanks.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:20 am

What the **** is this whole 'virtue signalling' thing that right wingers come out with all the time?

I saw this the other day and it sums up my thoughts too

: IMG_20170919_111855.jpg (156.77 KiB) Viewed 3363 times

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:21 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Yes.

But there's a difference between saying it's a price worth paying if it were to happen. But not actually WANTING it. And simply WANTING it. One is weighing up the pros and potential cons. The other is needy economic masochism But I doubt you'll admit it or even be able to work it out.

That poll doesn't say that remain voters want it. It uses exactly the same language for both sides of the question.

Unless we're talking about a different poll, you did say 22% and the one I saw said 19%.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:27 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Rabbit hole?

No thanks.

come on ringo, i'm giving you a really good opportunity to rescue yourself from making yourself look a proper tosser again.

take it.

i'll ask again.

for all the passengers who have been adversely affected by the ryanair cancellations. what karma is it?

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:29 am

Walton wrote:What the **** is this whole 'virtue signalling' thing that right wingers come out with all the time?

meaningless buzz-phrase that the likes of that prisonplanet weirdo uses.

keith1879 · Post by **keith1879** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:30 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:You're celebrating the EU protecting RyanAir customers as a means to stick it to Remain voters?

Serious question, are you OK?

I stopped reading his posts quite some time ago

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:32 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:They shouldn't be flying with a blatant remainer though.

Farage air is the way Ringo flies

FarageAir let you smoke on their planes. Also, when they land, they blast God Save the Queen out over the PA system and all the passengers and crew sing along, tearfully.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:33 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:FarageAir let you smoke on their planes. Also, when they land, they blast God Save the Queen out over the PA system and all the passengers and crew sing along, tearfully.

Doesn't have the greatest safety record though

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:43 am

You're gonna upset the PC brigade that pretends to be anti-PC with that joke.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:44 am

Some classic virtue signalling heading your way Upthebeehole

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:45 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:FarageAir let you smoke on their planes. Also, when they land, they blast God Save the Queen out over the PA system and all the passengers and crew sing along, tearfully.

You forgot the Blue passport requirement.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:49 am

At least we'll be rid of those pesky compensation rules soon though.

Of course if we do take the favoured Brexit route of telling the EU to go stuff 'emselves and ripping up all the agreements (No deal is the technical name I believe) then it is true that UK airlines won't be able to fly into Europe as to continue to operate on routes between European airports, they must have a significant base on EU territory and that a majority of their capital shares must be EU-owned. They also won't be able to fly into the US either as they'll no longer be part of the EU-US open skies agreement.

Of course it is unlikely to happen but it does show how absurd the "No deal" position is.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:52 am

Genuinely laughed out loud at that FarageAir post.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:54 am

That's essentially it aggi, but there's a bit of complication in that - as I understand it - flights within the EU come under the jurisdiction of the ECJ, so we would need to reach some compromise over that before we could continue "business as usual".

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:54 am

I'm surprised I've had no takers nor at any time on the site for pointing out that Kazakhstan have been allowed into the UEFA cohort and following on from that insidious cultural directive...

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:13 pm

quoonbeatz wrote:come on ringo, i'm giving you a really good opportunity to rescue yourself from making yourself look a proper tosser again.

take it.

i'll ask again.

for all the passengers who have been adversely affected by the ryanair cancellations. what karma is it?

Thank you, your precious. For graciously allowing me the chance for self healing!

Your clearly trying but failing to twist my words.

So no. Obviously for the passengers it's not.

But for Mr Remoaner, Oleary who the hysterically claimed thatr- "March 2019 there'll be no flights between the UK and Europe."

And now cos of his inability to organise a p*** up in a brewery. He's having to ground planes left right and centre! Now the EU rules on basically bring s***. Have bit him in his entitled @rse. !

That's karma!