What next for Labour?

[PutTheWheelieBinsOut]

You only need to read what I have posted on this thread to know that in regards to Corbyn

In regards to anti-semitism in Labour members, I'd start by wanting those who clearly haven't a clue what that involves to stop posting it every post.

And I'm another who has issues with his position with Hamas and other terrorist organisations.

It's totally clear to me now, you never answer a question do you, it's all an illusion to pretend you actually know what your talking about, you mask it by making snide and abstract comments, in some attempt to distract. If you do respond to this comment it will be "And he's done it again. But its ok, its not an issue for the Labour party." The sad thing is with a little effort you could be so much more than a puppet of the media and you could have some original thoughts for yourself.

[android]

You are missing the point IIBYW. This is not about voters, it's about leadership. Someone who wants to be our PM.

This is not about X Tory voters or Y Labour voters in a survey. In any event, I would be very sceptical of hands up if you are an anti-Semite polls. Put it this way, I wouldn't be surprised if Put The Bins polled as not anti-Semitic (maybe even blue lab)! Think about that when you are relying on "statistics".

This is about Corbyn and the people he surrounds himself with and the message that sends out to people, especially Jewish people and those inclined to dislike Jewish people. We can debate whether Corbyn is anti-Semitic. He seems to me to be but not to you. What is beyond dispute he is very, very tolerant of people who share his left wing ideology but have expressed anti-Semitism or support for anti Semitism. There is mountains of evidence of this. Even this past week, when the woman on the NEC was found to have defended a holocaust denier he did not act - I understand she eventually resigned after Watson spoke out.

[HatfieldClaret]

The Labour party under Corbyn reminds me of the National Council for Civil Liberties in the early 80's. The NCCL were so busy trying to be an umbrella group for every rebel with a cause that the NCCL (under the leadership of Harriet Harman) even defended the paedophile information exchange (PIE).

If the Labour party got back to doing what they're supposed to do, try to offer an alternative government, then they might have a chance.

[HatfieldClaret]

Momentum has warned its supporters that accusations of antisemitism in Labour are not rightwing smears or conspiracy, saying unconscious anti-Jewish bias is “more widespread in the Labour party than many of us had understood even a few months ago”.

Reported in the Guardian.

Right wing rag !!

[Lancasterclaret]

It's totally clear to me now, you never answer a question do you, it's all an illusion to pretend you actually know what your talking about, you mask it by making snide and abstract comments, in some attempt to distract. If you do respond to this comment it will be "And he's done it again. But its ok, its not an issue for the Labour party." The sad thing is with a little effort you could be so much more than a puppet of the media and you could have some original thoughts for yourself.

All I'll say to that is that yesterday was the only day of the year in which people check internet facts before assuming they are true.

If you had bothered to read what I posted, then I have already answered your two questions.

Not as clearly as you have demonstrated that point being made that Labour members don't understand what anti-semitism is, or ignore it because they believe it mind!

[AndrewJB]

Corbyn has now been criticised for celebrating Passover with what I can only guess were 'the wrong kind of Jews'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... wish-event" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lancasterclaret]

Thats all from Guido Fawkes, which is absolutely terrible for this kind of thing.

Labour has anti-semitic issues, but the Guido story is clearly flogging it to a whole new level, and it has to be said, undermining the drive to push out anti-semitism by making it look even more like a smear campaign.

Smacks of CCHQ sticking its oar in with some spectacular backfiring advice to be honest.

[Guich]

The Tories must be wetting themselves.

I sometimes wonder if Corbyn has yet realised the joke candidate was elected leader of the party two years ago.

[Blackrod]

Alan Carr to replace Jeremy Corbyn. At least they might be taken more seriously. They would also appeal to youngsters who know nothing of historic Labour governments as they would look modern instead of those stuffy old Conservatives.

[UpTheBeehole]

Pathetic smear campaign

[AndrewJB]

Only fair that we get to hear from the Jewish group Corbyn celebrated Passover with:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -good-news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Paul Waine]

Only fair that we get to hear from the Jewish group Corbyn celebrated Passover with:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -good-news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good to read this link, Andrew. Thanks for posting.

[If it be your will]

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[android]

I happened to see David Baddiel (Jewish Labour voter) on ITV this morning and he explained the far left and Corbyn's anti-Semitism problem very clearly - worth a watch for anyone who still imagines it was all a smear.

Essentially he was saying what you seem to be saying IIBYW. For the far left, anti-Semitism is just not seen as, as bad as, other forms of racism because of the whole wealthy, in control of the world stuff ( the blue lab fantasy guff - although bluelab had a shocking number of supporters on this thread). Baddiel contrasted Corbyn's immediate and passionate response to Windrush to his sitting on hands approach to anti-Semitism (2 years and counting to investigate Livingstone as just one example).

I don't think it was stupid to call out Corbyn for not dealing with racism. It should be called out regardless of the politics of the perpetrators.

[claretonthecoast1882]

" May or may not be among Labour ranks "


Like there is any doubt about it

[AndrewJB]

I happened to see David Baddiel (Jewish Labour voter) on ITV this morning and he explained the far left and Corbyn's anti-Semitism problem very clearly - worth a watch for anyone who still imagines it was all a smear.

Essentially he was saying what you seem to be saying IIBYW. For the far left, anti-Semitism is just not seen as, as bad as, other forms of racism because of the whole wealthy, in control of the world stuff ( the blue lab fantasy guff - although bluelab had a shocking number of supporters on this thread). Baddiel contrasted Corbyn's immediate and passionate response to Windrush to his sitting on hands approach to anti-Semitism (2 years and counting to investigate Livingstone as just one example).

I don't think it was stupid to call out Corbyn for not dealing with racism. It should be called out regardless of the politics of the perpetrators.

I think Baddiel is painting with a broad brush, if that's how he's 'explained' anti-Semitism in Labour. I don't think there are many within the Labour family who believe Jews control the world (certainly polls conducted by YouGov showed that only fourteen percent of people identifying as Labour voters gave responses indicating possible anti-Semitic opinions - which is set against twenty percent across the country, and nearly thirty percent of Conservative voters). The most common slanders against the Jewish people - that they control the banks and therefore the world, that the Holocaust didn't happen, the blood libel and so on - all of these are firmly grounded in far right ideology, and a lot of the anti-Semitic hatred some Jewish Labour MPs have described has come from right wing extremists.

My opinion on this is a lot of what is real and perceived anti-Semitism within Labour stems from people campaigning against Israel's treatment of Palestinians. Real anti-Semitism in that it crosses the line from being against Israel's government policy to being against Israel itself; and perceived because there is a thought among some people that any criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic.

Where this has become a smear against Corbyn is in the way opposition to him within the Labour Party has coalesced against him around the issue. It's indisputable that a significant number of senior Labour members have opposed Corbyn from the beginning. And it is also true that they've jumped on virtually any issue to attack him - including staging a coup back in 2016. It's also a fact that the national media has largely joined in with any attack that might stick. A few years ago a Jewish man I know said he would vote LibDem while Corbyn was in charge of Labour; "because he doesn't recognise Israel's right to exist" When I challenged him to provide proof, he only said it was widely known within the Jewish community. This is a smear. I'm not suggesting the whole issue has been invented, but that it has been used as a weapon against Corbyn.

What I would like to see is a fair, transparent and open investigation into the charges of anti-Semitism. Saying that Ken Livingstone, for example, needs to be thrown out of the party is just lynch mob mentality. Investigate, and deal with each situation appropriately.

[Bacchus]

Painting it as a smear against Corbyn is a neat way of dodging the real issue that many Labour supporters don't want to face up to. I'm sure there are anti semites and racists within Labour but I doubt it's significantly more (if at all) than in the Conservative party. That is a problem that both parties need to deal with.

The big problem that Labour needs to deal with is, that regardless of whether the charge of ant-semitism is fair or otherwise, Corbyn is utterly incapable of dealing with it. He's politically inept, completely indecisive and lacks any kind of leadership skill and he is already well past any high mark he is going to achieve in terms of public opnion. He's losing ground on what could well be the worst government in recent history and offers no solutions or flexibility around the issues that are causing that.

The apparent belief that we'll get a Labour government if Corbyn just hangs around doing as little as possible until the Tories are voted out is beyond delusional.

[Lancasterclaret]

Saying that Ken Livingstone, for example, needs to be thrown out of the party is just lynch mob mentality. Investigate, and deal with each situation appropriately.

Fully Investigated, and he's been suspended for two years. Only reason he is still in it is because he's very much a good friend and vital political ally of Jeremy Corbyn.

And that is before you even start with the idea that George Galloway might be allowed back in the party as well.

But yeah, its just a smear campaign.

[If it be your will]

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[If it be your will]

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[Lancasterclaret]

On the enemies of the people, or anti-semitism?

Its tough to argue here with people who are effectively ignoring their own leader saying its a problem and then not having an issue with eliminating all political opponents.

Look at the opinion polls ITBYW. Why are you not running away with it at the moment? If you think its because its not a cult behind Jeremy, and its because that it is a party with a variety of views then cheers in advance for giving us umpteen more years of Conservative government.

You have to appear to more than just the left wing, or you'll stay out of power. It really is that simple.

And has already been mentioned, you are effectively endorsing Tory Brexit policy as well, which isn't a good look either.

[Pstotto]

We're facing an impending catastrophic equation of increasing population and increasing needs v. diminishing resource and climate change. All the other stories are political distraction.

Labour announce £250 billion fund raising because 'Stoke is not productive enough' (Guardian.) it's basically more road building for more people to keep folk in work digging holes.

It's not just ostrich policy, it's dodo policy.

[HatfieldClaret]

I see Labour have de-selected their asian parliamentary candidate in WelwynHatfield for an all women shortlist. He was a decent chap and quite popular. Brought the sitting MP's majority down from 15k to 7k at the last election.

Female candidate has now been shown on tw!tter for what she is, aggressive Corbynista numbnut now full of apologies and "not representative of me".

Should have stuck with what they had. Dickheads.

[bluelabrador16]

Some interesting thoughts:

Jewish Guilt is the Discourse of The Goyim ....Gilad Atzmon

"For quite some time the British have accepted that British Jewish organizations have hijacked the political discourse. As has happened in other Western countries, the British political establishment has engaged is a relentless rant against antisemitsm. Sometime the focus drifts for a day or two. An alleged ‘Russian nerve gas attack’ provided a 48 hour pause. Occasionally we bomb Arabs in the name of ‘human intervention’ only to realize a day or two later that we have, once again, followed a premeditated foreign agenda. But, somehow, we always return to the antisemitsm debate, as if our media and politicians are a herd of flies gravitating to a pile of poop....

Last week the BOD/JLC, two Jewish organisations that claim to ‘represent’ British Jews published this painful to watch video.

A message from the Jewish community and friends #EnoughIsEnough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... nEYxMHb-RU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

....Brits are tired of this nauseating outburst. Brits know very well that when it comes to hate crimes, Jews are not high on the victim list; Jews are far less ‘victimized’ than Blacks, Muslims, Roma, trans-sexuals, gays and many others.

Since Jewish community ‘leaders’ remain obsessed with anti semitism, I will try to help these ‘leaders’ understand the universal perspective on the meaning of antisemitsm.

True Antisemitsm is when IDF snipers film themselves shooting unarmed Semite protestors* like sitting ducks while laughing their heads off!

True Antisemitsm is when the Jewish State legislates and enforces institutional racism against actual Semites, Blacks and Goyim in general.

The Gaza siege is an example of what common people see as real Antisemitsm. It is designed to humiliate and deprive Semites for being Semites and it has turned Gaza into the largest open air prison known to man.....

https://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/2018/4 ... -the-goyim" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[If it be your will]

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[Lancasterclaret]

Its not a couple though is it (and i apologise for using the word "cult", I've been too long on twitter!)

Its everyone who doesn't fully agree with everything JC says.

YOu have 500,000 members, and 12 million plus voted for you, surely you can see that you can't afford to alienate even a small percentage of that?

[dermotdermot]

I agree - the time to act has arrived.

So how do you propose to get rid of him? I’ve run out of ideas, other than...............................

[If it be your will]

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[Lancasterclaret]

You didn't win last time with the left wing manifesto and a terrible Conservative govt, and you did well because you got anti-brexit votes.

[PutTheWheelieBinsOut]

The Labour party at the last general election got the most votes since the 1997 election. As for getting anti-brexit votes I think thats unlikely as Labour's policy on brexit was at best unclear at the time of the last election. Where as the Liberal Democrats position on brexit was totally clear and they lost votes. Labour had a left wing manifesto which attracted voters, if those on the right of the Labour party, especially MP's had united with the leadership we would now have a Labour government. So yes they should have democratic de-selection in the Labour party without doubt, maybe increasing the likelihood of eventually having a united party. If certain sections want to break away and form a new party, best of luck to them, I wish them well, they would be at least showing they had a bit of something about them and conviction in their beliefs. I admired the courageous actions of the SDP gang of four (Owen, Rodgers, Jenkins, Williams) just a shame the current rebels in the Labour party have no back bone and prefer to act like a rebellious group of sulky kids.