Young soldiers pose with Tommy Robinson.

[ClaretAndJew]

Maybe yes, maybe no.

There is an unusually high number of white girls being systematically raped by pakistani men in this country. That is a fact. There is no pussyfooting around that. So my question is, why is one special interest group fighting one corner on the grounds of race okay, but another doing the exact same thing not?

Because as far as I know black lives matter aren't committing crimes like TR is. Rightly or wrongly from a moral stand point, he is committing crimes when he goes outside courtrooms.

It's absolutely not racist to question why Asian males are grooming white British girls but no one has ever said it is.

[evensteadiereddie]

Moffitt and his gang have so it must be right......

[Bin Ont Turf]

It's absolutely not racist to question why Asian males are grooming white British girls but no one has ever said it is.

Deary me.

[ClaretAndJew]

Deary me.

Go on

[Bin Ont Turf]

The reason why it hasn't been questioned is because the sandal wearing blind buggers would rather cringe and enter their own arseholes, because it would be deemed racist.

[ClaretAndJew]

The reason why it hasn't been questioned is because the sandal wearing blind buggers would rather cringe and enter their own arseholes, because it would be deemed racist.

If it hasn't been questioned how come people are serving time for the crime?

[Lancasterclaret]

Okay, back a bit

British Army soldiers singing Tommy Robinsons name?

Is that okay, or not okay?

[Imploding Turtle]

So yes, you do.

So i'm guessing you would have a problem with British Army Muslims standing next to a hate preacher if he's a Muslim hate preacher. But not white Brits if they stand next to a white hate preacher.

I'm not saying the two are equivalent, i'm saying that soldiers posing to have videos and photos taken with them, especially white in uniform, is something that the Army shouldn't let go uninvestigated.

[Clarinetclaret]

So i'm guessing you would have a problem with British Army Muslims standing next to a hate preacher if he's a Muslim hate preacher. But not white Brits if they stand next to a white hate preacher.

I'm not saying the two are equivalent, i'm saying that soldiers posing to have videos and photos taken with them, especially white in uniform, is something that the Army shouldn't let go uninvestigated.

I'm guessing you'd never be outdoors to have a photo taken with anyone!

[Imploding Turtle]

I'm guessing you'd never be outdoors to have a photo taken with anyone!

Well argued.

[burnleymik]

You say the media are scared to criticise Islam, right? Is that a fair portrayal of what you want to say?

Because I say that’s b0ll0cks.

It isn't. The media will criticise when a Muslim has broken the law, like anyone else, but what they won't do is criticise the problems with the ideology. Such as FGM, interpretations of how women should be treated, treatment of homosexuality, problems with madrasa teaching and methods, the demand for their sharia etc.

Criticising an individual Muslim and criticising the ideology are quite different things, especially when it's clear they do not all interpret things the same way.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

could that be because those crimes were being perpetrated by like 99% Muslim men?

Perhaps, being a working class lad from these types of communities, it rubbed him the wrong way to see girls in his communities, people he knew personally being abused in this way and the authorities turning a blind eye to it all.

[TheFamilyCat]

could that be because those crimes were being perpetrated by like 99% Muslim men?

Muslim men are responsible for 99% of sexual offences against children?

Have you any source to back that up?

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Muslim men are responsible for 99% of sexual offences against children?

Have you any source to back that up?

No he doesn't, he just has his own bigoted views.

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

In cases of grooming, the states are overwhelmingly swayed towards men from the Muslim community.

However, sex offences on the whole are swayed much more towards white males.

There's no doubt that these grooming gangs are a massive issue, but it's unfair to tarnish an entire community because a portion of them have behaved in a totally abhorrent manner.

My family are all catholic and we weren't treated any differently by people when the IRA bombed Manchester in 1996.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

My family are all catholic and we weren't treated any differently by people when the IRA bombed Manchester in 1996.

Thank god there are no catholics going around abusing people and covering it up.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Perhaps, being a working class lad from these types of communities, it rubbed him the wrong way to see girls in his communities, people he knew personally being abused in this way and the authorities turning a blind eye to it all?

Did it also rub him the wrong way to see Newport County fans in Luton for a football match, probably drinking and having a laugh while the authorities turned a blind eye to it and he had to defend Luton by starting a 100 man brawl?

[aggi]

On Rotherham, this is a decent read https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -rotherham" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (from someone who did a hell of a lot more to have the perpetrators convicted than Tommy Robinson).

[ClaretMoffitt]

Did it also rub him the wrong way to see Newport County fans in Luton for a football match, probably drinking and having a laugh while the authorities turned a blind eye to it and he had to defend Luton by starting a 100 man brawl?

Yeah because a scrap at football is definitely as if not more evil that industrial scale child sex trafficking.

[BOYSIE31]

Dont see an issue - anyone can have their picture taken with who ever they like its a free world.

[ClaretMoffitt]

On Rotherham, this is a decent read https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -rotherham" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (from someone who did a hell of a lot more to have the perpetrators convicted than Tommy Robinson).

Nazir is an absolute legend, his work tackling the dregs of the Islamic communities is unquestioned.

[burnleymik]

Dont see an issue - anyone can have their picture taken with who ever they like its a free world.

Clearly it isn't in the UK, unfortunately.

[TheFamilyCat]

Dont see an issue - anyone can have their picture taken with who ever they like its a free world.

Yes, they can. But they have to face the consequences of doing so.

[BOYSIE31]

I take it no one on here have seen the picture of our police doing the ISIS salute ?

[ClaretMoffitt]

I take it no one on here have seen the picture of our police doing the ISIS salute ?

I posted it.

Nobody cared.

[BOYSIE31]

I suspect they didn’t realise the significance of that gesture. If they did they should absolutely be sacked - no question.

Will you answer my question about who the “mainstream media” are, please?

Did you see this on the news anywhere or any mainstream sites - no didnt think so.

[Tall Paul]

I take it no one on here have seen the picture of our police doing the ISIS salute ?

Dont see an issue - anyone can have their picture taken with who ever they like its a free world.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Dont see an issue - anyone can have their picture taken with who ever they like its a free world.

So you are okay with Tommy being photod with troops, yes?

[BOYSIE31]

I posted it.

Nobody cared.

Yeah just seen above - saw on twitter the other week.

[BOYSIE31]

Dont see an issue - anyone can have their picture taken with who ever they like its a free world.

Ahh see what you did there - is it one side allowed or both ?

[Tall Paul]

So you are okay with Tommy being photod with troops, yes?

I'm not that bothered what "Tommy" does really. It looks like the troops' employer isn't okay with it though.

Ahh see what you did there - is it one side allowed or both ?

You tell me, you're the one who seems to be saying one is alright and the other one isn't.

[Dy1geo]

Robinson from what I can gather whilst having multiple convictions against his name for violence, fraud and contempt of court has not actually been convicted of a race hate crime. He expresses opinions that are abhorrent to many but still do not break the law therefore people are saying the squaddies should be punished for singing the name of someone they personally vehemently oppose, but we still live in a free society that allows freedom of speech however disgusting it may be to many and probably with hidden agendas attached. Feel free to criticise the squaddies for their actions but don’t ask for them to be punished as they have not done anything wrong.

[Lancasterclaret]

Guy in the army says you are wrong in two posts.

But hey, we know we don't listen to experts these days right

[Dy1geo]

Guy in the army says you are wrong in two posts.

But hey, we know we don't listen to experts these days right

I am quite happy to accept that someone has a different opinion unlike many on here and Jarrowclaret stated (paraphrasing) that he believed that by standing next to the odious Robinson they had broken the code of conduct they signed up to and that the Army can’t be seen to have a serving soldier associated with any one from a far right group etc. I can see how it looks with Robinson trying to portray that the Army back him.

I fully get where Jarrowclaret is coming from but he is coming from the perceived rules of the Armed Forces where a punishment can be purely down to a viewpoint of their superiors.

I have said all along that I value the freedom of speech and expression and in other jobs if an employer tried to discipline an individual maybe sacking them purely for standing next to Robinson and singing his name the employer would have a hard time at a tribunal and the public services should go by the same rules.

[Caballo]

I am quite happy to accept that someone has a different opinion unlike many on here and Jarrowclaret stated (paraphrasing) that he believed that by standing next to the odious Robinson they had broken the code of conduct they signed up to and that the Army can’t be seen to have a serving soldier associated with any one from a far right group etc. I can see how it looks with Robinson trying to portray that the Army back him.

I fully get where Jarrowclaret is coming from but he is coming from the perceived rules of the Armed Forces where a punishment can be purely down to a viewpoint of their superiors.

I have said all along that I value the freedom of speech and expression and in other jobs if an employer tried to discipline an individual maybe sacking them purely for standing next to Robinson and singing his name the employer would have a hard time at a tribunal and the public services should go by the same rules.

Your debating a non point, the lads pictured were in the army, were in uniform and will be disciplined accordingly if there superiors deem it necessary. Unsurprisingly the Armed forces does not and can not function in the same manner as 'other jobs'.

[Dy1geo]

The statement from the Army

"Far right ideology is completely at odds with the values and ethos of the Armed Forces,"

But it's the second sentence that exposes the dilemma for army HQ: "The Armed Forces have robust measures in place to ensure those exhibiting extremist views are neither tolerated nor permitted to serve."

Taken from “Sky News” “That is the question the army's investigation must answer: were the soldiers, crowded around Tommy Robinson and chanting his name, "exhibiting extremist views". That is subjective and hard to prove.

They didn't seek him out, nor did they openly endorse his political views -

This is the point I have been making all along, being seen with him and singing his name is not expressing extremist views singing far right songs is.

[TVC15]

The statement from the Army

"Far right ideology is completely at odds with the values and ethos of the Armed Forces,"

But it's the second sentence that exposes the dilemma for army HQ: "The Armed Forces have robust measures in place to ensure those exhibiting extremist views are neither tolerated nor permitted to serve."

Taken from “Sky News” “That is the question the army's investigation must answer: were the soldiers, crowded around Tommy Robinson and chanting his name, "exhibiting extremist views". That is subjective and hard to prove.

They didn't seek him out, nor did they openly endorse his political views -

This is the point I have been making all along, being seen with him and singing his name is not expressing extremist views singing far right songs is.

Semantics
He has extreme far right views and they were singing his name and having photos taken with him - so a fair assumption that they are supporting both him and his extreme views.
Maybe with no hot shot lawyers looking for technical loopholes the army just apply logic and common sense to situations like this.

[Dy1geo]

Semantics
He has extreme far right views and they were singing his name and having photos taken with him - so a fair assumption that they are supporting both him and his extreme views.
Maybe with no hot shot lawyers looking for technical loopholes the army just apply logic and common sense to situations like this.

That can be the assumption made by many, my opinion for what it’s worth do I think they should have stood with him and sing his name no they were naive he is in my opinion **** and as people have expressed above, Robinson exploited it, my argument is with those saying they should be thrown out the Army etc which potentially affect their lives as that will only add to Robinson’s propaganda. There superiors should educate them accordingly so it doesn’t happen in the future.

On a final note just because they sung his name doesn’t mean they support his views, people on the long side sung about the Suicide Squad and Stockport 88 but it didn’t mean that they supported them or the Stockport violence.

[evensteadiereddie]

Dead right, Dy1.
Robinson or, as he known by some on here, "Tommy" exploited these lads, probably not the brightest of our troops, let's face it, knowing exactly what would happen : as we've seen on here, his supporters admiring him and ya-boohing the Army authorities and those who think Robinson and his followers are complete turds, shaking their heads in disbelief at his crass yet dangerous opportunism.
It doesn't matter to him what damage he causes and to whom - so long as he's in the spotlight, that's fine by him.

[box_of_frogs]

Semantics
the army just apply logic and common sense to situations like this.

You obviously don’t know the Army very well! Logic and common sense!!!!!

[Imploding Turtle]

That can be the assumption made by many, my opinion for what it’s worth do I think they should have stood with him and sing his name no they were naive he is in my opinion **** and as people have expressed above, Robinson exploited it, my argument is with those saying they should be thrown out the Army etc which potentially affect their lives as that will only add to Robinson’s propaganda. There superiors should educate them accordingly so it doesn’t happen in the future.

On a final note just because they sung his name doesn’t mean they support his views, people on the long side sung about the Suicide Squad and Stockport 88 but it didn’t mean that they supported them or the Stockport violence.

Are people really saying that they should all be thrown out for the army for this?

[TVC15]

You obviously don’t know the Army very well! Logic and common sense!!!!!

I said maybe
But i’m sure they will apply their own set of values and ethos to it rather than get caught up in the technicalities of employment law etc

[TVC15]

That can be the assumption made by many, my opinion for what it’s worth do I think they should have stood with him and sing his name no they were naive he is in my opinion **** and as people have expressed above, Robinson exploited it, my argument is with those saying they should be thrown out the Army etc which potentially affect their lives as that will only add to Robinson’s propaganda. There superiors should educate them accordingly so it doesn’t happen in the future.

On a final note just because they sung his name doesn’t mean they support his views, people on the long side sung about the Suicide Squad and Stockport 88 but it didn’t mean that they supported them or the Stockport violence.

Agreed and not saying they deserve to be kicked out of the army. They have just been very naive and stupid as you say - or TR could have been very opportunistic.
They are grown adults though and should have known how this was going to look for their employers. Guessing they will get more of a punishment than 100 press ups in their underpants !

[box_of_frogs]

If Only they could be ‘punished by 100 press-ups in their undies’! That’s bullying for our fragile millennials - even in the Forces.....!

[burnleymik]

Love seeing these double standards. Same people on these very boards who defend Corbyn with such vigour, are here criticising these young men for almost the same scenario. The very same people who claim just because you associate or are photographed with someone or a group doesn't mean you support their politics and beliefs, are now saying exactly that about these young cadets.

[Damo]

I understand the army's point of view, in that it's soldiers can not be seen celebrating Robinson and his bigoted views. But by sacking this young lad, they have played right into Irish tommy Robinson's hands.
They know all about the difficulties in combating ideologies and they should have been a lot smarter dealing with this situation.
They should of educated him and every other recruit on the dangers people like this pose, and perhaps made a public statement.
Instead his followers, and potential followers are now lauding him as the hero in all of this when he is the person that has caused the lad to lose his job

[TheFamilyCat]

I understand the army's point of view, in that it's soldiers can not be seen celebrating Robinson and his bigoted views. But by sacking this young lad, they have played right into Irish tommy Robinson's hands.
They know all about the difficulties in combating ideologies and they should have been a lot smarter dealing with this situation.
They should of educated him and every other recruit on the dangers people like this pose, and perhaps made a public statement.
Instead his followers, and potential followers are now lauding him as the hero in all of this when he is the person that has caused the lad to lose his job

Anybody who lauds Robinson as a hero for this and criticises the army for sacking the lad is just plain thick.

[evensteadiereddie]

I think being in the same place, at the same rally or at the same meeting and having a photo of it dragged up several years later is a little different to standing next to a bloke, being filmed and photographed as you yell his name. Probably the same in your simple world but, in the real one, it's not quite as straightforward as you make out.

[Imploding Turtle]

Anybody who lauds Robinson as a hero ...

You had me at "hero".

[box_of_frogs]

Without trawling through the whole thread, who has been “sacked” (not that we can sack people, but I understand the use of the terminology).