England vs India - 4th Test

[TheFamilyCat]

How much is Chris Silverwood to blame for another defeat?

Not as much to blame as the batsmen.

[Silkyskills1]

Shambolic performance from senior pros. 10 wickets lost for 109 in about half a day.

[kentonclaret]

Tremendous resilience and fortitude shown once again by India considering that in the Leeds Test Match they were skittled out for 78 in first innings before going on to lose that Test. The momentum should have been with England but India wrestled it back.

[Devils_Advocate]

I reckon we must have won at least 10-12 of the sessions so were a bit unfortunate to let it slip away of day 5

[tiger76]

How much is Chris Silverwood to blame for another defeat?

Good question, however these issues precede Chris Silverwood's appointment, and the batting has been a long standing problem.

However ultimately he's the head coach and the buck does stop with him and the captain I guess.

Depends on how CS reacts to this latest debacle, if he doesn't shake things up, and if needed rattle a few cages, then he's not the man for the job as far as I'm concerned.

The comfort blanket needs removing from several England players who simply aren't performing to the required standard.

And if there isn't at least 3/4 changes for the 5th test then clearly there's players who will be allowed to remain on easy street whoever is in charge.

The only England players who deserve any credit are Pope & Woakes with the bat 1st innings, and Burns & Hameed 2nd innings.

And Robinson & Woakes with the ball, the rest were average at best, and passengers at worst, even Jimmy didn't have his best game, but he's entitled to the odd off day after what he's contributed to English cricket for nigh on 20 years.

Bairstow and Moeen are 2 that would go for me, but there should be others if replacements can be sourced.

Robinson came from the county scene, so there must be other hungry guys out on the county circuit who'd relish the chance to represent England, and they'd take pride in wearing the England colours, and not just go through the motions as some of this bunch are, and have been for far too long now, a new broom required as far as I'm concerned.

[tiger76]

Tremendous resilience and fortitude shown once again by India considering that in the Leeds Test Match they were skittled out for 78 in first innings before going on to lose that Test. The momentum should have been with England but India wrestled it back.

We shouldn't be surprised by that, look at how India reacted to adversity in Australia, sign of character within their group, which I'm afraid is sadly lacking in the English ranks.

[tiger76]

A note for the England selectors, Middlesex 372-0 at Hove, Robson & Stoneman both nearing double tons, just saying.

[DAVETHEVICAR]

There are no replacements in squad
Buttler— no better than Bairstow
Lawrence- had chance and no better than either the above
Dom Bess - average County Cricketer- nowhere near Test Standard

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Yes Middlesex openers facing a standard similar to Lancashire League Amateurs

[kentonclaret]

We shouldn't be surprised by that, look at how India reacted to adversity in Australia, sign of character within their group, which I'm afraid is sadly lacking in the English ranks.

That was exactly what I posted on the 3rd Test thread on 25th August, pointing out India's battling qualities in Australia and not to write them out of the Test Series despite the loss at Leeds.

[Burnley1989]

It was a top class bowling display, huge credit to India

[Bordeauxclaret]

A note for the England selectors, Middlesex 372-0 at Hove, Robson & Stoneman both nearing double tons, just saying.

Two who have failed miserably before.

[MACCA]

We were just sloppy and poor throughout really with the odd bit of good cricket

The amount of drops, some you'd be disappointed not to have seen them taken a Lancashire league level

In the field that potential run out last night, Ali then Hameed both having a comedy moment again something you'd not want to see at league level.

The wasting of reviews also had a bearing on how the game swung away from us.

There were far too many below par performances throughout, both individually and within the units.

We got our noses in front and didn't capitalise, then got pegged back, then got back in with a shout of a result, then through it away again.
And without taking anything away from the 2 or 3 big Indian performers who performed when they needed too, we really did shoot ourselves in the foot far too easily far too often to be winning a test match against anyone anywhere.

[tiger76]

There are no replacements in squad
Buttler— no better than Bairstow
Lawrence- had chance and no better than either the above
Dom Bess - average County Cricketer- nowhere near Test Standard

In the squad no I agree, when Ben Foakes is fit I'd give him the gloves, I have serious reservations about both Bairstow and Buttler in the test arena, both great white ball cricketers, but the test match environment requires a completely different mindset, and I'm not convinced either has that anymore.

Lawrence showed promise, but as with many before him he's failed to kick on in his test career.

Agree on Bess, decent county pro, but way off being a test bowler.

It's a worrying prospect regarding the winter, as on the current evidence I can only see an easy win for Australia.

The one time in the series England have looked comfortable at the crease, was when Jimmy and Co blow India away for 78, but as soon the batters are put under any kind of sustained pressure, they simply capitulate. At happened at Lords on the final day, and ditto here, India did bowl well, but I'm sorry you've got to offer more resistance than England did once the 1st wicket fell.

And I posed the what happens if you take Root's runs out of the equation, well he failed twice in this match, and everyone can see the end result.

I still point to day 2 being when England lost their grip on this match, we should have got a 1st innings lead of 150-200 given the benign batting conditions, but as is often the case with England they think 80's and 30's well be enough to win you test matches, and even in England that's rarely proven to be true, someone should have got a big hundred, and a couple of other guys half centuries, India showed that if you apply yourself there was scope for making runs on that surface, and even their tail enders managed to amass nearly 150 for the last 4 wickets, in stark contrast England were simply blown away by Bumrah this afternoon.

[ClaretTony]

Lost by 157 runs

Takes some doing after posting a first innings lead of 99

[Local cricketer]

I will be there on Saturday but might not even see a bowl Bowled.

Might stand in the bar all day

[tiger76]

Takes some doing after posting a first innings lead of 99

Similar outcome to the Edgbaston test against the Aussies a couple of years ago, England posted a 1st innings lead of 90, before Australia racked up the runs, and Lyon rolled England over on day 5.

This England team seem to have forgotten what it takes to actually win a tight test match, or even draw one.

Of course 1st innings runs are vital, but they mean nothing if you can't finish the job.

[ClaretTony]

Similar outcome to the Edgbaston test against the Aussies a couple of years ago, England posted a 1st innings lead of 90, before Australia racked up the runs, and Lyon rolled England over on day 5.

This England team seem to have forgotten what it takes to actually win a tight test match, or even draw one.

Of course 1st innings runs are vital, but they mean nothing if you can't finish the job.

We should never have let India get that score in the second innings but we were running the seam bowlers into the ground.

[tiger76]

We should never have let India get that score in the second innings but we were running the seam bowlers into the ground.

6 dropped catches, and missing the run out chance didn't exactly help, and England will reflect on this loss with regret, because for large parts of the 5 days we more than matched India, however absolutely we allowed them to amass a 100 more than they should have done 2nd innings, and realistically 368 was never a viable chase for England, but having got to lunch only 2 down, I had high hoped we'd at least be able to salvage a draw, and head to OT all square, then yet another collapse reared it's ugly head.

I agree we were running the seamers into the ground, but again this goes back to when England got themselves into a good position on day 2, and we should have still been batting at stumps, this would have given the seamers welcome respite from their labours, instead India got back in, and cut England's 1st innings lead almost in half by the close, and despite the best efforts of England's bowlers we were always chasing the game from that session on.

Whereas once India got in a strong position they never relaxed their iron grip on the game, but that's why they've won so many matches in recent years, they keep being relentless for the entire 5 days, and even if they suffer a bad session, they come roaring back in the next.

[Targetman]

I will be there on Saturday but might not even see a bowl Bowled.

Might stand in the bar all day

Will be an expensive day at £5.25p a pint.

[Local cricketer]

Will be an expensive day at £5.25p a pint.

It’s only money. Can’t take it with you are when your gone