Women’s Euros 2022

[Jamesy]

Non league football isn’t on prime-time BBC1 because the viewing figures would be appalling.

They wouldn’t be if it was hyped up to such an extent Women’s football is.

[Rileybobs]

They wouldn’t be if it was hyped up to such an extent Women’s football is.

It would be because it’s less popular. But where is women’s football hyped up? I’ve hardly seen any hyping up. Just the same level of promotion as any elite sport.

[CoolClaret]

It would be because it’s less popular. But where is women’s football hyped up? I’ve hardly seen any hyping up. Just the same level of promotion as any elite sport.

Yeah the whole point is that it isn’t elite sport - it’s pretty crap (but improving to be fair)

[Rileybobs]

Yeah the whole point is that it isn’t elite sport - it’s pretty crap (but improving to be fair)

But it is elite - in the same way that any women’s sport played at an international level is elite. They are the best female footballers in the world. Do you consider women’s boxing to be elite, for example? What about women’s tennis, or women’s golf?

[CoolClaret]

But it is elite - in the same way that any women’s sport played at an international level is elite. They are the best female footballers in the world. Do you consider women’s boxing to be elite, for example? What about women’s tennis, or women’s golf?

I suppose this comes down to interpretations and semantics but for me I consider elite sport where the best athletes go and the levels the game is being played at are clearly echelons above what the average joe could play at - I don’t see this (yet) with women’s football

[Rileybobs]

I suppose this comes down to interpretations and semantics but for me I consider elite sport where the best athletes go and the levels the game is being played at are clearly echelons above what the average joe could play at - I don’t see this (yet) with women’s football

But these women are echelons above what the average Jane could play at.

[CoolClaret]

But these women are echelons above what the average Jane could play at.

I really don’t think they are.

I’d wager you could take the GB track team (women) athletes and give them a months footy training and they’d get results against the womens team,

Just wouldn’t happen with the mens

[Rileybobs]

I really don’t think they are.

I’d wager you could take the GB track team (women) athletes and give them a months footy training and they’d get results against the womens team,

Just wouldn’t happen with the mens

That’s an utterly preposterous claim. I do wonder what some of you are on making such wild claims.

It’s a pointless conversation because you keep comparing the game with the mens equivalent. Womens football will never be at the same level as mens football - you could say the same for almost any sport.

[CoolClaret]

That’s an utterly preposterous claim. I do wonder what some of you are on making such wild claims.

It’s a pointless conversation because you keep comparing the game with the mens equivalent. Womens football will never be at the same level as mens football - you could say the same for almost any sport.

Not really - I see the level of athlete and I just don’t think it’s anywhere near close to what is on offer in other womens sport right now

[1968claret]

Don’t really care what level it is, don’t even see why we should compare it to any other levels either.
The question is whether it is good entertainment to watch.
And to be fair, I have quite enjoyed it.
There is some good technical skill on show and the games on the whole have been entertaining.

It is also so refreshing to watch a full game of football, without the constant stop start due to “injury” and “fouls”.
It really is quite noticeable.

[Jamesy]

But it is elite - in the same way that any women’s sport played at an international level is elite. They are the best female footballers in the world. Do you consider women’s boxing to be elite, for example? What about women’s tennis, or women’s golf?

Women’s tennis is certainly an elite sport as the prize money on offer in the slams is immense. I get some of your points and I actually enjoy watching some of the women’s football games if they are close contests. I get no satisfaction however watching mis matched contests as in the women’s Euros where England and others are sticking a hatful of goals past weak teams. This rarely happens in men’s tournaments and indicates that women’s football hasn’t reached a consistent level globally.
One other thing to consider when we judge what is and what isn’t an elite sport is spectator numbers. Women’s Super League in England is still drawing meagre crowds even when admission is a fiver or less to get in. I believe the ticket price for this Euro tournament is only ten pounds for adults and a fiver for everyone else?
I do look forwards to the time if and when Women’s football becomes an attractive proposition and they are getting the saturation coverage on merit, ie we all want to see it. At the moment it just feels like the BBC are doing all this because of the equality ticket. When the women’s football is bumped up on the news ahead of the Wimbledon men’s singles final we should realise there is something not quite right going on here.

[Rileybobs]

Women’s tennis is certainly an elite sport as the prize money on offer in the slams is immense. I get some of your points and I actually enjoy watching some of the women’s football games if they are close contests. I get no satisfaction however watching mis matched contests as in the women’s Euros where England and others are sticking a hatful of goals past weak teams. This rarely happens in men’s tournaments and indicates that women’s football hasn’t reached a consistent level globally.
One other thing to consider when we judge what is and what isn’t an elite sport is spectator numbers. Women’s Super League in England is still drawing meagre crowds even when admission is a fiver or less to get in. I believe the ticket price for this Euro tournament is only ten pounds for adults and a fiver for everyone else?
I do look forwards to the time if and when Women’s football becomes an attractive proposition and they are getting the saturation coverage on merit, ie we all want to see it. At the moment it just feels like the BBC are doing all this because of the equality ticket. When the women’s football is bumped up on the news ahead of the Wimbledon men’s singles final we should realise there is something not quite right going on here.

I see your points. Personally I have very little interest in women’s football. I haven’t watched any of the games in this tournament, I’ll possibly watch the final if England got there but only if I was already sat in front of my TV. But not sure attendance numbers etc are relevant to whether something is elite sport. I’d guess netball viewing figures and attendances are small, but international netball is still elite sport.

In terms of the BBC pushing it, again I can see where you’re coming from. But how many people watched the men’s final compared to the England game? I genuinely don’t know the answer, I’m asking sincerely. But I bet there’s not a lot of difference.

[Billy Balfour]

Heh. CoolClaret really loves this tournament. I mean, he's been banging on about it for nearly a week.

You can clog up a thread by saying you don't like something a multitude of times, yet there comes a tipping point where your level of dullness is laid bare for all to see, and this was reached long ago.

[1968claret]

I get no satisfaction however watching mis matched contests as in the women’s Euros where England and others are sticking a hatful of goals past weak teams. This rarely happens in men’s tournaments and indicates that women’s football hasn’t reached a consistent level globally.

Have you watched any of the world come and Euro Qualifiers
I get your point about the consistent level globally, but maybe these tournaments will make that more likely?
It is great to see decent crowds though and all the young girls watching with their mums.
Regardless of what middle aged men like myself (I won’t call you middle aged as I wouldn’t want to presume!) think, it is whether they can reach that demographic and grow the game.

[Jamesy]

Have you watched any of the world come and Euro Qualifiers
I get your point about the consistent level globally, but maybe these tournaments will make that more likely?
It is great to see decent crowds though and all the young girls watching with their mums.
Regardless of what middle aged men like myself (I won’t call you middle aged as I wouldn’t want to presume!) think, it is whether they can reach that demographic and grow the game.

I’m considerably older than middle aged pal. Almost an old aged pensioner.

[Billy Balfour]

Must be crap living in a 1970s time warp with only 3 channels on the TV.

[boatshed bill]

One thing I find odd is that so many "English" people can't just enjoy an English team doing well in any sport.

[CoolClaret]

Heh. CoolClaret really loves this tournament. I mean, he's been banging on about it for nearly a week.

You can clog up a thread by saying you don't like something a multitude of times, yet there comes a tipping point where your level of dullness is laid bare for all to see, and this was reached long ago.

I’ve yet to see a convincing argument as to why it’s a top level of sport.

If you enjoy it great - just don’t pretend like we’re witnessing greatness

[boatshed bill]

I’ve yet to see a convincing argument as to why it’s a top level of sport.

If you enjoy it great - just don’t pretend like we’re witnessing greatness

But it is a top-level female sport.
Plenty are enjoying it for what it is.

[CoolClaret]

But it is a top-level female sport.
Plenty are enjoying it for what it is.

But it’s not,

As there’s more money in the game when the next crop come through it’ll start looking better, girls will pick football first over other sports etc.

Is that a good thing? Maybe, time will tell.

[boatshed bill]

But it’s not,

As there’s more money in the game when the next crop come through it’ll start looking better, girls will pick football first over other sports etc.

Is that a good thing? Maybe, time will tell.

So the best 11 from Germany vs the best 11 from Spain cannot currently be classed as top level?

[CoolClaret]

So the best 11 from Germany vs the best 11 from Spain cannot currently be classed as top level?

Read my prior points...It's been done to death.

[Big Vinny K]

I’ve yet to see a convincing argument as to why it’s a top level of sport.

If you enjoy it great - just don’t pretend like we’re witnessing greatness

If we are talking womens sport is there a sport in the world that has more females (girls and adults) watching and participating than football ?
If there is I can’t think of one - and it is regularly quoted in the states and Canada as the highest participation sport for females.

I’m not sure what defines a “top level of sport” in your eyes but would have thought participation and spectator levels would be part of the criteria.
Quality levels are subjective for any sport and based on opinions (often made by people who get out of breath reaching for their remote control !!)

[aggi]

So the best 11 from Germany vs the best 11 from Spain cannot currently be classed as top level?

The answer to that is somewhat circular. It can't be classed as top level because he thinks it's not top level.

[martin_p]

There’s some fairly desperate arguments being put forward to try and belittle women’s football but games between the top female footballers in the world not being top level/elite sport is the most bizarre.

[Guppyspotter]

Women's football surely will not achieve its' potential until it is hyped up and the rewards are such that it becomes a realistic career option for a large number of athletes. I hope this happens sooner rather than later.

[1968claret]

Women's football surely will not achieve its' potential until it is hyped up and the rewards are such that it becomes a realistic career option for a large number of athletes. I hope this happens sooner rather than later.

You say that, but I’m not so sure. I really dislike what Elite mens football had become. Despite having all the various sky channels(my son insists!) I didn’t watch one match in this last year. Other than wanting my team to do well, I have completely lost interest. Just so fed up of all the hype, the never ending punditry discussions, cheating, feigning injury, lack of respect for officials.

I have watched more football in this last week than the whole of last season.

[Middle-agedClaret]

What 1968claret said.
It’s been refreshing to watch games where the teams want to play - not fall as if shot by a sniper;whinge; feign injury; argue; cheat; waste time; spit; surround the referee; spit with gusto and regularity…

[CoolClaret]

There’s some fairly desperate arguments being put forward to try and belittle women’s football but games between the top female footballers in the world not being top level/elite sport is the most bizarre.

Just because you don’t understand the argument doesn’t mean it’s bizarre.

I think it’s getting better I do admit and I’m glad people are enjoying watching it.

This notion of if someone has legit criticisms of a sporting event (in this case) somehow makes them sexist/belittling is a complete cop out.

[martin_p]

Just because you don’t understand the argument doesn’t mean it’s bizarre.

I think it’s getting better I do admit and I’m glad people are enjoying watching it.

This notion of if someone has legit criticisms of a sporting event (in this case) somehow makes them sexist/belittling is a complete cop out.

If you think claiming a female athlete with a months football training could play for England is ‘legit criticism’ then you need to look up the definition of the word. Thousands of girls and women play football in this country and the ones that have reached the top level have done so because of the sacrifice and hard work allied with natural talent. If you can’t see why claiming any physically fit women with a months training could achieve the same is belittling then I suspect your judgment is indeed clouded by a hint of mysoginy!

[martin_p]

That’s misogyny! (always like to correct my spulling!)

[CoolClaret]

If you think claiming a female athlete with a months football training could play for England is ‘legit criticism’ then you need to look up the definition of the word. Thousands of girls and women play football in this country and the ones that have reached the top level have done so because of the sacrifice and hard work allied with natural talent. If you can’t see why claiming any physically fit women with a months training could achieve the same is belittling then I suspect your judgment is indeed clouded by a hint of mysoginy!

Well I didn’t say that did I? I said they could maybe get a result.

Have you seen the track/field athletes? Absolute specimens!

It was to say that maybe the skill discrepancy wouldn’t be enough to outweigh the physicality, where as the mens game it definitely would (and the bloke footy players are better athletes comparatively as well) - it’s hard to pickup on nuance I understand.

Just stimulating debate here… is a forum after all

[jackmiggins]

Well I didn’t say that did I? I said they could maybe get a result.

Have you seen the track/field athletes? Absolute specimens!

It was to say that maybe the skill discrepancy wouldn’t be enough to outweigh the physicality, where as the mens game it definitely would (and the bloke footy players are better athletes comparatively as well) - it’s hard to pickup on nuance I understand.

Just stimulating debate here… is a forum after all

‘Absolute specimens’ - what on earth do you mean?

[Sproggy]

What 1968claret said.
It’s been refreshing to watch games where the teams want to play - not fall as if shot by a sniper....

You did see the heinous foul leading to England's penalty the other night didn't you?

[martin_p]

Well I didn’t say that did I? I said they could maybe get a result.

Have you seen the track/field athletes? Absolute specimens!

It was to say that maybe the skill discrepancy wouldn’t be enough to outweigh the physicality, where as the mens game it definitely would (and the bloke footy players are better athletes comparatively as well) - it’s hard to pickup on nuance I understand.

Just stimulating debate here… is a forum after all

There is no ‘nuance’ to what you’re saying. It’s straight up ‘there’s very little skill involved in the women’s game, any physically fit female could play at the top level with minimal coaching’. If that’s the case how come there are thousands of women in this country playing football who don’t make the top level? Not fit enough?

[CoolClaret]

‘Absolute specimens’ - what on earth do you mean?

I mean they’re incredible athletes !

[CoolClaret]

There is no ‘nuance’ to what you’re saying. It’s straight up ‘there’s very little skill involved in the women’s game, any physically fit female could play at the top level with minimal coaching’. If that’s the case how come there are thousands of women in this country playing football who don’t make the top level? Not fit enough?

My last post on this thread because I’m probably boring people and I can’t be bothered with playing ‘gotcha’ it’s really boring.

My premise isn’t about the skill level of the ladies, I’m sure individually they’re clearly skilled players and will be able to do things with the ball that I certainly couldn’t do.

I think why it doesn’t translate to a high level spectacle (lots of keeper errors/blunders leading up to goals) at times is because of the level of athleticism and more importantly the level needed to play at a high intensity for an entire match.

Footballl is a very intense sport to play and maintain high levels across 90 minutes.

I think the women’s game could be better if the pitches & goals were a bit smaller - in the cricket for example the boundaries are smaller & in grand slam tennis the women play best of 3 whilst the blokes play best of 5.

I think these changes would help the game - stop 5ft8 keepers being lobbed from 25 yards / beaten by looping headers constantly and would make the game more focused on skill and not athleticism.

[Rowls]

There is no ‘nuance’ to what you’re saying. It’s straight up ‘there’s very little skill involved in the women’s game, any physically fit female could play at the top level with minimal coaching’. If that’s the case how come there are thousands of women in this country playing football who don’t make the top level? Not fit enough?

Evidently they're just not trying hard enough martin.

Sure, the England women's team look very good right now but it's only because we're running round a lot and playing better football than our opposition.

[Big Vinny K]

I’m assuming they only won 8-0 cos they let a few of these “specimens” play for them - Sally Gunnell, Fatima Whitbread, Tessa Sanderson, Paula Radcliffe and Mary Peters all started against Norway.
None of them had kicked a football before or even knew the rules but it didn’t matter as they were female athletes and that superseded any footballing skills of those pesky Norwegians.
Jessica Ennis has just got the call for the quarters

[aggi]

My last post on this thread because I’m probably boring people and I can’t be bothered with playing ‘gotcha’ it’s really boring.

My premise isn’t about the skill level of the ladies, I’m sure individually they’re clearly skilled players and will be able to do things with the ball that I certainly couldn’t do.

I think why it doesn’t translate to a high level spectacle (lots of keeper errors/blunders leading up to goals) at times is because of the level of athleticism and more importantly the level needed to play at a high intensity for an entire match.

Footballl is a very intense sport to play and maintain high levels across 90 minutes.

I think the women’s game could be better if the pitches & goals were a bit smaller - in the cricket for example the boundaries are smaller & in grand slam tennis the women play best of 3 whilst the blokes play best of 5.

I think these changes would help the game - stop 5ft8 keepers being lobbed from 25 yards / beaten by looping headers constantly and would make the game more focused on skill and not athleticism.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with this but you've got be realistic. Making it common to the facilities that are already in place in thousands of places throughout the country hugely reduce the barriers to entry. If you needed bespoke women's pitches you'd be down to a tiny number of pitches.

Although I would bet that the average height of a female player now (particularly in the professional ranks) is more than the average of a male player in the 1800s.

[dsr]

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with this but you've got be realistic. Making it common to the facilities that are already in place in thousands of places throughout the country hugely reduce the barriers to entry. If you needed bespoke women's pitches you'd be down to a tiny number of pitches.

Although I would bet that the average height of a female player now (particularly in the professional ranks) is more than the average of a male player in the 1800s.

I saw a list of Nelson FC's squad from the year they played in Division 2 - 1923-24. (The year they got away wins at both Real Madrid and Manchester United.) They had a goalkeeper at 6'2", and no-one else in a squad of 30+ (not even the reserve keepers) of more than 5'9". I don't think there is any need to faff about with the size of the women's goals.

[Clarets4me]

Going back to the Football .....

Elements in the Portugese performance tonight creeping in from the men's game, leaving the foot in the tackle, kicking the ball away, surrounding the referee. The Portugal 'keeper was poor and their defence vulnerable at set-pieces .... a shame because they looked good going forward !

The Dutch looked very frustrated at the poor refereeing failing to pick up on the fouling and it nearly spilled over at the end ..

[tiger76]

Attendance record already broken, and there's still 15 games to play.https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62170687

[aggi]

Interesting article on goalkeeping
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... ls-sexism/

[Mattster]

Just because you don’t understand the argument doesn’t mean it’s bizarre.

I think it’s getting better I do admit and I’m glad people are enjoying watching it.

This notion of if someone has legit criticisms of a sporting event (in this case) somehow makes them sexist/belittling is a complete cop out.

Except the only person who sees your absolutely ridiculous viewpoint (that the GB women's track team with one month's football training could get close to the England women's football team) as "legit criticism" is you. It's a viewpoint based on zero evidence and since it has no basis in fact (or reality, for that matter) you won't accept any point that refutes it.

That you hold that view makes it pointless engaging with you on the point further, it's a claim that shows your complete and utter lack of knowledge/understanding of women's football (and quite possibly football as a whole, to be honest).

[CoolClaret]

Except the only person who sees your absolutely ridiculous viewpoint (that the GB women's track team with one month's football training could get close to the England women's football team) as "legit criticism" is you. It's a viewpoint based on zero evidence and since it has no basis in fact (or reality, for that matter) you won't accept any point that refutes it.

That you hold that view makes it pointless engaging with you on the point further, it's a claim that shows your complete and utter lack of knowledge/understanding of women's football (and quite possibly football as a whole, to be honest).

Firstly - way to revive an old post

Secondly - what because you write a few **** blogs you think you’re a resident expert

I was highlighting the level of athleticism in women’s football as being low in comparison to elite women sport and a reason why it’s effecting the perceived quality/overall product and that the skill gap could ‘perhaps’ be closed somewhat by vastly superior athletes by physically dominating.

I do admit the sport has gotten better and fair play - but all to often do see them being misbalanced and falling over in bizarre ways and keepers flapping at nothing, think more should be done to tailor the game to highlight their skill and not so much the athleticism required (so use smaller pitches/nets)

[Commy]

It isn't that long ago that the top men's teams were battering the minnows. It doesn't happen as often now. I am sure that more countries will start to have full time female footballers and leagues so it will become more competitive in the future. These things take time. Personally, I have enjoyed it because teams actually look to pass the ball forwards. I watch England men's if I can't sleep. Works every time.

[AlargeClaret]

Firstly - way to revive an old post

Secondly - what because you write a few **** blogs you think you’re a resident expert

I was highlighting the level of athleticism in women’s football as being low in comparison to elite women sport and a reason why it’s effecting the perceived quality/overall product and that the skill gap could ‘perhaps’ be closed somewhat by vastly superior athletes by physically dominating.

I do admit the sport has gotten better and fair play - but all to often do see them being misbalanced and falling over in bizarre ways and keepers flapping at nothing, think more should be done to tailor the game to highlight their skill and not so much the athleticism required (so use smaller pitches/nets)

Re: Athleticism/fitness , you’re miles out with your assumptions ,absolutely eons away , bordering on utterly clueless I’m afraid . Nothing personal at all, but you have some wires crossed perhaps on elite performance based cardio and overall fitness .

The pro woman’s teams are full time high end pro athletes with elite level fitness not far from the mens game ( pro rata ) Their cardio , conditioning and training regimes are ferocious.

Now the lower levels are more akin fitness wise to maybe tier 7 Football league ( again pro rata-that ain’t bad at all ) simply due to the “part time” nature of the womens game outside the bigger clubs . Conditioning coaching is lacking also in most levels of womens footy , again due to being light on budget and any serious club infrastructure.

I will agree on your “ balance “ arguments though and their keeper issues . Football is just one of those sports that the women can never approach the men in elite end product physically . Personally can’t stand it , but the top teams fitness is not the issue it’s the physical /balance / body make up that just doesn’t “ quite fit” the way say Tennis , athletics , cycling , swimming does .

[Mattster]

Firstly - way to revive an old post

Secondly - what because you write a few **** blogs you think you’re a resident expert

I was highlighting the level of athleticism in women’s football as being low in comparison to elite women sport and a reason why it’s effecting the perceived quality/overall product and that the skill gap could ‘perhaps’ be closed somewhat by vastly superior athletes by physically dominating.

I do admit the sport has gotten better and fair play - but all to often do see them being misbalanced and falling over in bizarre ways and keepers flapping at nothing, think more should be done to tailor the game to highlight their skill and not so much the athleticism required (so use smaller pitches/nets)

Firstly - forum been down, I saw it was posted Tuesday and just assumed that was today.

Secondly - no I don't think I'm an expert. But given that "legit criticism" I can say with 100% confidence I know more than you.

For one, it completely ignores the different kind of fitness needed for sports like football and track athletics. That's before we get to all the other, many, issues with it. As an opinion it's beyond embarrassing.

[Paul Waine]

I was at the Lionesses training camp yesterday. {I know the venue they are using well). Watched them in a practise game - in the heat. These are serious footballers. Not as strong, of course, as the top male footballers. Good footballers, without a doubt.