Italy v England

[beddie]

After the World Cup perhaps we need a new direction in Management.

[daveisaclaret]

I think the reason most don't take Southgate seriously as a manager is that he'd done absolutely nothing to merit getting the England job.

But since getting the England job his record is semi finals of the World Cup and final of the Euros, better than all but one manager in England's history. Clinging on to an opinion from 2016 despite all evidence being to the contrary is silly.

[bobinho]

Pep and Klopp are better coaches than Gareth Southgate??? Hold the front page.

You know what? They actually might be. They don’t need to be though…. These player shouldn’t need coaching at this stage. They are already playing at their absolute best. They are coached daily at their respective clubs. They just need putting together as a team and given simple instructions that they are familiar with from their club team/position and that they can understand.

Pep and Klopp might actually understand better than Southgate how to set them up properly. They might actually understand better than Southgate which players are best suited to certain positions. And they might actually understand better than Southgate how to play in the most effective formation.

The best group of attacking players in over a generation haven’t scored from open play in over seven - SEVEN hours of football. These players should be ripping teams apart, and at the very least scoring a few goals.

I honestly believe playing managerless would have yielded better results than we’ve had under GS recently.

[Roosterbooster]

I respect Southgate. He's diligent, loyal, smart; and I haven't been embarrassed by the off-field behavior of the team for quite some time.

But he is not the man to get the most out of the players at his disposal. We haven't beaten anyone of note in a major tournament with him in charge, other than Germany (and I don't accept Croatia in the Euros last year, who were a shadow of their former selves)

The negative setup stifles the natural ability of our best players, and makes us very beatable. If we'd have played a natural attacking game, we could have been going into this World Cup having won 6 Nations League games. As it stands, I think we will win none

[roperclaret]

FWIW, I wholeheartedly agree that Southgate should move on after this World Cup - but let’s not make out like his time as England manager has been a failure.

Not has it been a success

[Superjohnnyfrancis]

Five losses in a row think its time to go.

The players looked bored stupid last night, no charisma no plan by the looks of it.

[boatshed bill]

I respect Southgate. He's diligent, loyal, smart; and I haven't been embarrassed by the off-field behavior of the team for quite some time.

But he is not the man to get the most out of the players at his disposal. We haven't beaten anyone of note in a major tournament with him in charge, other than Germany (and I don't accept Croatia in the Euros last year, who were a shadow of their former selves)

The negative setup stifles the natural ability of our best players, and makes us very beatable. If we'd have played a natural attacking game, we could have been going into this World Cup having won 6 Nations League games. As it stands, I think we will win none

If he's not the man, who is?
We've tried internationally acclaimed managers and some decent English ones, none has been a success.

[RVclaret]

If he's not the man, who is?
We've tried internationally acclaimed managers and some decent English ones, none has been a success.

Wenger (maybe), Pochettino and Tuchel are available right now for a starter…

Otherwise, Hungary’s manager Marco Rossi is doing an incredible job.

Bielsa would be fun.

[bumba]

If he's not the man, who is?
We've tried internationally acclaimed managers and some decent English ones, none has been a success.

I'd offer it tuchel til after the world cup

[bobinho]

If he's not the man, who is?
We've tried internationally acclaimed managers and some decent English ones, none has been a success.

Sarina Weigmann.

Yes, I know she’s not a man, but she’d certainly get more out of this group of players than GS has done. There would be clear instructions, a clear plan and everyone would know what they are doing and where they are supposed to be doing it.

National mens team not yet ready for this type of move, but out of the current managers out of work, I’d suggest Pochettino. He’d have us scoring for sure. As would bielsa.

[Roosterbooster]

If he's not the man, who is?

My money's on boatshed bill

[boatshed bill]

My money's on boatshed bill

Nah, I'm way too good.

[TheFamilyCat]

I'd offer it tuchel til after the world cup

Absolutely not. I'd change my nationality if he became England manager.

[Rileybobs]

You know what? They actually might be. They don’t need to be though…. These player shouldn’t need coaching at this stage. They are already playing at their absolute best. They are coached daily at their respective clubs. They just need putting together as a team and given simple instructions that they are familiar with from their club team/position and that they can understand.

Pep and Klopp might actually understand better than Southgate how to set them up properly. They might actually understand better than Southgate which players are best suited to certain positions. And they might actually understand better than Southgate how to play in the most effective formation.

The best group of attacking players in over a generation haven’t scored from open play in over seven - SEVEN hours of football. These players should be ripping teams apart, and at the very least scoring a few goals.

I honestly believe playing managerless would have yielded better results than we’ve had under GS recently.

These players shouldn’t need coaching? What kind of world do you live in where you think that international teams don’t need coaching?

[Rileybobs]

I respect Southgate. He's diligent, loyal, smart; and I haven't been embarrassed by the off-field behavior of the team for quite some time.

But he is not the man to get the most out of the players at his disposal. We haven't beaten anyone of note in a major tournament with him in charge, other than Germany (and I don't accept Croatia in the Euros last year, who were a shadow of their former selves)

The negative setup stifles the natural ability of our best players, and makes us very beatable. If we'd have played a natural attacking game, we could have been going into this World Cup having won 6 Nations League games. As it stands, I think we will win none

So by your logic we’ve only played 2 teams of note in major tournaments under Southgate; Italy and Germany, and we’ve won one and drawn one, losing in extra time. The top international sides rarely play many other teams ‘of note’ in tournaments due to how they are seeded.

Downplaying the opposition in his tournament record is just desperate.

[Goalposts]

Belief perseverance (also known as conceptual conservatism) is maintaining a belief despite new information that firmly contradicts it. Such beliefs may even be strengthened when others attempt to present evidence debunking them, the individual then try’s to present historical events or actions as proof that they still hold true today.

In my experience it can be quite common on forums and a couple of regular posters on here definitely suffer in this regards.

As max Planck said
the new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up, that is familiar with it.

This reference is mainly thought of in terms of getting scientific breakthroughs to be accepted. But also works at many levels , from flat earthers . Vaccine deniers. Personality cults etc

[Rileybobs]

Belief perseverance (also known as conceptual conservatism) is maintaining a belief despite new information that firmly contradicts it. Such beliefs may even be strengthened when others attempt to present evidence debunking them, the individual then try’s to present historical events or actions as proof that they still hold true today.

In my experience it can be quite common on forums and a couple of regular posters on here definitely suffer in this regards.

As max Planck said
the new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up, that is familiar with it.

This reference is mainly thought of in terms of getting scientific breakthroughs to be accepted. But also works at many levels , from flat earthers . Vaccine deniers. Personality cults etc

Who is displaying belief perseverance?

[bobinho]

These players shouldn’t need coaching? What kind of world do you live in where you think that international teams don’t need coaching?

Seriously mate, it's time to just accept that you've backed a donkey here. You clearly know what I meant, but in order to maintain some degree of credibility, you are clinging to semantics. You and I both know that in the few days GS has these lads for, he will be able to coach them absolutely nothing. My point was they are already extremely competent footballers in their own right, they aren't going to be improving their skills after a week of GS talking in riddles to them. Except for maybe Harry Maguire....always room for improvement there. The rest have already learnt their craft. GS is there to select the best team and formation to do a job, and he's getting it ball-bouncingly wrong.

One the one side, there's you, Gareth, Declan Rice & Mrs Southgate, and on the other is the rest of the world - and I include the FA in that.

[Rileybobs]

Seriously mate, it's time to just accept that you've backed a donkey here. You clearly know what I meant, but in order to maintain some degree of credibility, you are clinging to semantics. You and I both know that in the few days GS has these lads for, he will be able to coach them absolutely nothing. My point was they are already extremely competent footballers in their own right, they aren't going to be improving their skills after a week of GS talking in riddles to them. Except for maybe Harry Maguire....always room for improvement there. The rest have already learnt their craft. GS is there to select the best team and formation to do a job, and he's getting it ball-bouncingly wrong.

One the one side, there's you, Gareth, Declan Rice & Mrs Southgate, and on the other is the rest of the world - and I include the FA in that.

I haven’t backed anything. I’ve even said it’s time for Southgate to leave after the World Cup. I’ve just called out some of the nonsense comments about him, one of which being that the players at his disposal don’t need coaching which is utterly bonkers.

[bobinho]

Of course, I'm forgetting that GS may be a fantastic coach, and they are executing the plan superbly. The results and performances might just be exactly what he wants.

Genius Gareth, genius.

[bobinho]

I haven’t backed anything. I’ve even said it’s time for Southgate to leave after the World Cup. I’ve just called out some of the nonsense comments about him, one of which being that the players at his disposal don’t need coaching which is utterly bonkers.

Let it go... I have explained what I meant, and you got it. Stop being silly, you've called out nothing. GS can't coach these lads. What they need is to understand the plan, the tactics and the execution. If they do and they are carrying them out, then they are clearly wrong and that is the fault of GS. If they don't understand them, then that too is the fault of GS.

Great players, really great players in the middle and top third, but made into far less than the sum of their parts by poor management.

[Roosterbooster]

These players shouldn’t need coaching? What kind of world do you live in where you think that international teams don’t need coaching?

I think they need managing as a team more than individually coaching per se

Or at least I assume that's the point

I'd take a tactician over a coach. Conte was my choice about 4 years ago. And probably still would be if he wasn't employed already

[boatshed bill]

I think they need managing as a team more than individually coaching per se

Or at least I assume that's the point

I'd take a tactician over a coach. Conte was my choice about 4 years ago. And probably still would be if he wasn't employed already

A proactive tactician every time.
the coaching has been done, these are the best players at the top of their game.

[Goalposts]

"Loyalty to petrified or unfounded opinions never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul or had an original thought in this world — and never will."

[bumba]

Absolutely not. I'd change my nationality if he became England manager.

We'd at least score a goal

[KRBFC]

Graham Branch played in goal once but he wasn't a goal keeper.

Both are playing on the right for their clubs this season, which is presumably the benchmark Southgate uses to select them - though with Maguire managing to get in despite his form this season, who knows? Probably you, by the sounds of it.

Walker has spent his entire City career playing in a narrow right back role, very similar to the right of a back 3 role he's played for England numerous times, definitely isn't out of position and Branch playing in goals is just an utterly stupid comparison by someone who doesn't know better.

[Top Claret]

Being a top international football manager is not about coaching, it's about man management, tactics, organisation and picking the right players to play his system

[Sproggy]

Walker has spent his entire City career playing in a narrow right back role, very similar to the right of a back 3 role he's played for England numerous times, definitely isn't out of position and Branch playing in goals is just an utterly stupid comparison by someone who doesn't know better.

I do know better, but I just enjoy watching you try to be right all the time. Which you are, obviously.