ALK’s Strategy: Are We Witnessing A Failing Experiment?

[Paul Waine]

The private bridging loan is the one CP describes above.

I don't think it is easier to think that the club could attract £80 million worth of external investment offering no equity and generating no publicity. That is my problem...!

1) I don't think we've seen any information that suggests the £40 million loan that repaid the MSD loan was a bridging loan. All we know is that no security was registered against the club/club assets by this loan. A bridging loan would have required security to be registered.

2) Where do you get £80 million from? We know that JJ Watt and a few others have, as individuals, become "minority investors" in the club. All investors in the club will have an equity holding. The structure of ALK/VSP is set up so that their equity holding is in VSP. I doubt any of us would suggest that JJ Watt has become an investor while "generating no publicity." I believe what you are saying though, which is to see JJ Watt's shareholding directly in BFCHL and declared on the Companies House shareholders listing. That's not how the ALK/VSP structure is set up.

UTC

[Paul Waine]

5. I'm sort of over the Arsenal and Palace results and looking forward to it clicking on Sunday, surviving relegation by means of an amazing run and points deductions for Everton and Forest all capped off by winning the Lottery on Saturday!

Up the Clarets!

True Burnley fan. Defeats always behind us and hopes move on to the next game.

UTC

[ClaretPete001]

1) I don't think we've seen any information that suggests the £40 million loan that repaid the MSD loan was a bridging loan. All we know is that no security was registered against the club/club assets by this loan. A bridging loan would have required security to be registered.

2) Where do you get £80 million from? We know that JJ Watt and a few others have, as individuals, become "minority investors" in the club. All investors in the club will have an equity holding. The structure of ALK/VSP is set up so that their equity holding is in VSP. I doubt any of us would suggest that JJ Watt has become an investor while "generating no publicity." I believe what you are saying though, which is to see JJ Watt's shareholding directly in BFCHL and declared on the Companies House shareholders listing. That's not how the ALK/VSP structure is set up.

UTC

Semantics of language Paul - the loan bridged a gap and it was not possible to ascertain how ALK got it or who it was from ...!

However, it does suggest that ALK have access to significant finance, at least in the short term, without needing the assets of the club. As far as I recall we only know about it because it paid off the original MSD loan before the new one was in place but I maybe wrong on that one.

The £80 million was a big discussion we had as a consequence of some submissions to companies house I can't recall the exact details.

Have we established whether JJ Watt is a significant investor or simply acting on behalf of the club in exchange for equity or something other type of role?

[aggi]

Because what is the alternative? There has been £80 million of external investment into a business like Burnley with no equity, publicity or anything?

There are mystery individuals who lend tens of millions to pay off loans when required?

ALK couldn't find enough money to pay the former owners up front but they found a way to make scheduled payments of £68 million over a couple of years?

Many businesses in the tech industry live on millions and millions of VC money - existing hand to mouth from one month to the next. Why would you not do it that way?

None of it makes sense.

Vlad Torgovnik has ended up with £10m of shares with no publicity.

Burnely is not a tech company, nobody is hoping for us to become a market-leading at many multiples of our current revenue. It's a mature company, not a start-up.

Possibly the money has come from the club (as I said earlier, I'd be suspicious of anyone who gives a definitive answer on this) but I don't really get the you could make a killing in terms of divis, inter company loans and give handsome returns to those who can bridge the time between being in the Championships and in the PL.

Who is making the killing here and how?

And again just to add further complexity to it. If we are relegated from the PL not only do we lose something like £20 - £30 million of Broadcast revenue but there is a clause in the 21/22 accounts that says we have to repay the current loan back up to 75 per cent of the parachute money limited to £25 million. We are currently only paying interest with the capital due for repayment in 2025.

...

I suspect that relates to the old loan that is now paid off (although could of course be a condition of any current loan).

[ClaretPete001]

Vlad Torgovnik has ended up with £10m of shares with no publicity.

Burnely is not a tech company, nobody is hoping for us to become a market-leading at many multiples of our current revenue. It's a mature company, not a start-up.

Possibly the money has come from the club (as I said earlier, I'd be suspicious of anyone who gives a definitive answer on this) but I don't really get the you could make a killing in terms of divis, inter company loans and give handsome returns to those who can bridge the time between being in the Championships and in the PL.

Who is making the killing here and how?



I suspect that relates to the old loan that is now paid off (although could of course be a condition of any current loan).

I'm typing quickly on a football forum and not giving the language semantics of it too much thought.

'Vlad Torgovnik has ended up with £10m of shares with no publicity.' - Burnley issued a press release about his role with the club and while the shares he received might not have been widely publicised his role with the club was.

The second point relates to the possibility of large high risk unsecured loans and what it would cost to secure them. The phrase 'killing' is a crap one and I should not have said that...! I'm usually multi tasking while typing.

I find it highly unlikely that the club has secured large amounts of external investment with no equity offered and I either just simply refuse to accept it with no grounds for doing so or try to explain how the club could manage without it.

And it would seem to me with savvy financial planning you can kick a lot of debt down the road bring forward a good deal of revenue generating a lot of cash but it's the £68 million to the former owners I can't explain.

It's a lot of money...!

[ClaretPete001]

I missed this...!

'I suspect that relates to the old loan that is now paid off (although could of course be a condition of any current loan).'

Indeed and as I say, we will lose a good deal of Broadcast revenue possibly as much as £50 million and a further £25 million in debt re-payments if the terms are the same.

A lot of money to lose over a summer period. And likely as not without the £50 million windfall of long term players that we had last time because we will likely not have paid up current contracts and we certainly haven't increased the value of the players.

It's a lot of money....!

[Chester Perry]

Vlad Torgovnik has ended up with £10m of shares with no publicity.

Burnely is not a tech company, nobody is hoping for us to become a market-leading at many multiples of our current revenue. It's a mature company, not a start-up.

Possibly the money has come from the club (as I said earlier, I'd be suspicious of anyone who gives a definitive answer on this) but I don't really get the you could make a killing in terms of divis, inter company loans and give handsome returns to those who can bridge the time between being in the Championships and in the PL.

Who is making the killing here and how?

I suspect that relates to the old loan that is now paid off (although could of course be a condition of any current loan).

Vlad Torgovnik's entry is indeed an interesting one

Club announced in early August 2023 yet Companies House were not informed until September 2023 and the October 2023 filed Confirmation Statement states shares were purchased on June 29 2023

What I am certain of is that is not the whole story

[ClaretPete001]

Vlad Torgovnik's entry is indeed an interesting one

Club announced in early August 2023 yet Companies House were not informed until September 2023 and the October 2023 filed Confirmation Statement states shares were purchased on June 29 2023

What I am certain of is that is not the whole story

Indeed a CIO of that calibre would seem an odd fit for a club like Burnley. As an employee of millenium, he won't be wealthy just your average everyday millionaire but likely as not - not wealthy enough to be able to shove a big stack of cash into the club.

I doubt whether the club requires the tech architecture of a global bank. I'm not sure ALK see themselves as being in the business of Milltown FC though..

[Paul Waine]

Vlad Torgovnik's entry is indeed an interesting one

Club announced in early August 2023 yet Companies House were not informed until September 2023 and the October 2023 filed Confirmation Statement states shares were purchased on June 29 2023

What I am certain of is that is not the whole story

Hi CP, where does the Confirmation Statement say that Vlad Torgovnik bought his shares on 29th June 2023? I can see that some significant shares were transferred by other shareholders on that date. I imagine it's possible that they were first transferred to other shareholders and then later transferred to Torgovnik when he became a director. Of course, more accurately, Torgonvik's shares are held by CJA NYC Element LLC, 6,128 in total = 5% of BFCHL shares. Calder Vale Holdings holds 101,302 shares, 82.7% and Velocity Sports holds 8,985 shares, 7.3%.

I guess you've seen the Asset Match Admission Statement re Burnley FC Holdings Limited dated 15th December 2023. I note current auction of BFCHL shares closes at 3pm on 29th March.

[Chester Perry]

Indeed a CIO of that calibre would seem an odd fit for a club like Burnley. As an employee of millenium, he won't be wealthy just your average everyday millionaire but likely as not - not wealthy enough to be able to shove a big stack of cash into the club.

I doubt whether the club requires the tech architecture of a global bank. I'm not sure ALK see themselves as being in the business of Milltown FC though..

lets be honest Pete nobody has shoved a big stack of cash into the club - the last monies that came into the club was 10 years ago and most of that was loans converted into equity from Mike Garlick and John Banaszkiewicz towards the end of the first Dyche promotion season, possibly because it helped with negotiating the factoring deal the club would later enter into with Barclays

I suspect Torgovnik has more wealth than you think, but it would be very interesting to know if his is the only money in CJA NYC Element LLC, and also why he chose to take shares independent of ALK/VSL rather than join their ownership group directly. Not that the club even mentioned that he was a shareholder

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/con ... ings-board

[Westleigh]

Vlad Torgovnik has ended up with £10m of shares with no publicity.

Burnely is not a tech company, nobody is hoping for us to become a market-leading at many multiples of our current revenue. It's a mature company, not a start-up.

Possibly the money has come from the club (as I said earlier, I'd be suspicious of anyone who gives a definitive answer on this) but I don't really get the you could make a killing in terms of divis, inter company loans and give handsome returns to those who can bridge the time between being in the Championships and in the PL.

Who is making the killing here and how?

I suspect that relates to the old loan that is now paid off (although could of course be a condition of any current loan).

I hope your not an imposter Vlad seeing you can’t spell Burnley .

[Chester Perry]

Hi CP, where does the Confirmation Statement say that Vlad Torgovnik bought his shares on 29th June 2023? I can see that some significant shares were transferred by other shareholders on that date. I imagine it's possible that they were first transferred to other shareholders and then later transferred to Torgovnik when he became a director. Of course, more accurately, Torgonvik's shares are held by CJA NYC Element LLC, 6,128 in total = 5% of BFCHL shares. Calder Vale Holdings holds 101,302 shares, 82.7% and Velocity Sports holds 8,985 shares, 7.3%.

I guess you've seen the Asset Match Admission Statement re Burnley FC Holdings Limited dated 15th December 2023. I note current auction of BFCHL shares closes at 3pm on 29th March.

No it doesn't, you are right to bring that up, it does mention that the Garlick and Banaszkiewicz holdings were disposed of on the 29th of June

What document are you looking at to get those Velocity Sports shares and which Velocity Sports - Limited (Jersey) or Partners LLC?

The Confirmation Statement dated September 30 2023 has 9,019 shares with Velocity Capital (UK) Holdings Ltd, but none with Velocity Sports (of either variety)

[Westleigh]

I hope your not an imposter Vlad seeing you can’t spell Burnley .

Aggi ,sorry to call you Vlad ,it’s been a long week.

[Paul Waine]

No it doesn't, you are right to bring that up, it does mention that the Garlick and Banaszkiewicz holdings were disposed of on the 29th of June

What document are you looking at to get those Velocity Sports shares and which Velocity Sports - Limited (Jersey) or Partners LLC?

The Confirmation Statement dated September 30 2023 has 9,019 shares with Velocity Capital (UK) Holdings Ltd, but none with Velocity Sports (of either variety)

The Admission Statement on Asset Match that I mentioned in my post. It simply states "Velocity Sports." Agree it's Velocity Capital on the Confirmation Statement filed at Companies House. Perhaps just "casual" completion of the Admission Statement. I can't imagine there would have been shares shifted around corporate entities between date of Confirmation Statement and the date of Admission Statement.

[Chester Perry]

The Admission Statement on Asset Match that I mentioned in my post. It simply states "Velocity Sports." Agree it's Velocity Capital on the Confirmation Statement filed at Companies House. Perhaps just "casual" completion of the Admission Statement. I can't imagine there would have been shares shifted around corporate entities between date of Confirmation Statement and the date of Admission Statement.

hmm interesting, any chance you could email that to me?

[Chester Perry]

hmm interesting, any chance you could email that to me?

It is ok Paul I have found it now