Football's Magic Money Tree
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Something new - @OmarChaudhouri (of 21stClub football analysis specialists) and @FootballLaw with the first of a series of chats - episode 1 - Football Agents
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngKGaGg ... e=emb_logo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngKGaGg ... e=emb_logo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
@DavidConn looks at Manchester Utd's debt, and financing and contrasts the approach to that of FSG at Liverpool
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
The growing debate - highlighted throughout the life of this thread - about sports washing of institutions and nations of dubious record utilising football for reflected positivity is taking a new turn - apparently Bayern Munich have rejected a motion by a member to adopt UN human riaghts standards to it's constitution - it would impact sponsorships
https://www.dw.com/en/bayern-munich-rej ... a-51264334" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.dw.com/en/bayern-munich-rej ... a-51264334" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Man City have now released their financial results for '18/'19 and surprisingly both Matchday and Commercial Income are down compared to the previous year. They are still a way behind Man United in many respects, if not on the pitch.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
A report on the Man City figures
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50476584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
full financial report
https://www.mancity.com/annualreport201 ... report.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
which comes with a spin document known as the Annual report
https://www.mancity.com/annualreport201 ... report.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50476584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
full financial report
https://www.mancity.com/annualreport201 ... report.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
which comes with a spin document known as the Annual report
https://www.mancity.com/annualreport201 ... report.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
@KieranMaguire with some instant takeaways from Man City's financial results
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 8079793153" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
EDIT - This is a truly shocking statement in the accounts - if City win the Quadruple the bonuses would give them a huge financial loss
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 7645563904" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 8079793153" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
EDIT - This is a truly shocking statement in the accounts - if City win the Quadruple the bonuses would give them a huge financial loss
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 7645563904" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Chester Perry on Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
More takes on City's financial results
The Telegraph
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... sive-year/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Daily Mail
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... llion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Independent
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 09316.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The MEN
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... t-17281379" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
EDIT The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... es-2018-19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Telegraph
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... sive-year/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Daily Mail
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... llion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Independent
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 09316.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The MEN
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... t-17281379" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
EDIT The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... es-2018-19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Chester Perry on Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Royboyclaret wrote:Man City have now released their financial results for '18/'19 and surprisingly both Matchday and Commercial Income are down compared to the previous year. They are still a way behind Man United in many respects, if not on the pitch.
only made a profit from player sales too - Academy player sales - which I posted about last year as being a major contributor to their bottom line
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Remarkable really that a club the size of Manchester City still require a Profit on Player Sales in order to make an overall Net Profit. For Burnley over the decades we simply had to be a selling club and Bob Lord realised soon into his Chairmanship the importance of such profits to a small town club. Hence, even when we were relatively successful throughout the '60's and early '70's, Lord still ensured that a substantial fee for a player was received each and every season in order to balance the books.Chester Perry wrote:only made a profit from player sales too - Academy player sales - which I posted about last year as being a major contributor to their bottom line
But for Man City to be so reliant on the same Profit stream shows just how far they still are behind the likes of even their neighbours across the road. City might be a million miles ahead of United on the pitch but off it they are still light years behind exemplified in just one number for me, City have 463 employees on their books compared to 940 at United.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
The International break - downtime from the Premier/Champions League does funny things to the media - take this from the Mirror - average salary of each Premier League club (to my understand the data being used is way out of date)
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... e-20916779" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... e-20916779" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Probably close to being realistic CP, or at least based on the last set of accounts available to Jun'18.Chester Perry wrote:The International break - downtime from the Premier/Champions League does funny things to the media - take this from the Mirror - average salary of each Premier League club (to my understand the data being used is way out of date)
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... e-20916779" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
for us maybe but their are a few strange ones thereRoyboyclaret wrote:Probably close to being realistic CP, or at least based on the last set of accounts available to Jun'18.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Initially Tottenham looked suspect but on further inspection their Wage bill was a mere £147.6m, at least £100m less than each of City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea & Arsenal.Chester Perry wrote:for us maybe but their are a few strange ones there
The figures are probably accurate but require more context as to whether all employees on the Wage bill are included in the calculations.
Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Thank you, as ever, for your unstinting efforts, CP. Thanks also to royboyclaret who also helps non-finance people like yours truly make sense of the arcane details of accounts and football finance in general.
Just an observation re. City. Far be it from to "defend" the club. I used to quite like them back in the day when they were light years behind MUPLC. However, I detest what the club is today.
However, although you're both absolutely right to say they're still a long way behind their local rivals, they've still come a long way in the last 10 years or so.
United are a one-off for all the reasons we know. Hence they're able to post record revenues despite six years of relative disaster. I suspect they could carry on raking it in for quite a few more years before their income begins to falter.
City, on the other hand, would need another equally rich owner to keep where they are if the current lot pulled the plug.
In that respect, United are arguably in a very limited group of special clubs, special in that their long-term standing can maintain their wealth, the obvious examples being Real Madrid and Barcelona followed, to a lesser extent, by Bayern and Juventus and Liverpool.
Just an observation re. City. Far be it from to "defend" the club. I used to quite like them back in the day when they were light years behind MUPLC. However, I detest what the club is today.
However, although you're both absolutely right to say they're still a long way behind their local rivals, they've still come a long way in the last 10 years or so.
United are a one-off for all the reasons we know. Hence they're able to post record revenues despite six years of relative disaster. I suspect they could carry on raking it in for quite a few more years before their income begins to falter.
City, on the other hand, would need another equally rich owner to keep where they are if the current lot pulled the plug.
In that respect, United are arguably in a very limited group of special clubs, special in that their long-term standing can maintain their wealth, the obvious examples being Real Madrid and Barcelona followed, to a lesser extent, by Bayern and Juventus and Liverpool.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Very kind words, ecc.
Whenever the subject of Man United crops up something that Paul Merson often says sticks with me. He says they are THE biggest club in the football world, bar none. Now I know Paul comes out with some gems from time to time but, with this one, he might not be too far wrong.
Off the pitch City are a million miles behind them. At the Etihad, with a capacity of what 48,000, there always seems to be some empty blue seats in the home ends, whereas at Old Trafford I suspect they'd fill 90,000 every game even with a team outside the top four. It will take years before City come even close to United as a Club.
Whenever the subject of Man United crops up something that Paul Merson often says sticks with me. He says they are THE biggest club in the football world, bar none. Now I know Paul comes out with some gems from time to time but, with this one, he might not be too far wrong.
Off the pitch City are a million miles behind them. At the Etihad, with a capacity of what 48,000, there always seems to be some empty blue seats in the home ends, whereas at Old Trafford I suspect they'd fill 90,000 every game even with a team outside the top four. It will take years before City come even close to United as a Club.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
The latest Price of Football podcast is out - Financial Doping
http://priceoffootball.com/podcast/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://priceoffootball.com/podcast/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Chester Perry on Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
@SwissRamble's Euro tour lands in Munich - and looks at Bayern's 2018/19 results
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 6946281472" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 6946281472" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
The result of Chelsea's appeal over it's transfer ban should be known in 3 weeks
https://apnews.com/eefa6baf14894ef88841b70fc714a77d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://apnews.com/eefa6baf14894ef88841b70fc714a77d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Yet another article on the financing of football transfers - amazing how every one says you will never have heard about this - this one is from the Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -barcelona" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
they are probably touting for business in the upcoming transfer window
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -barcelona" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
they are probably touting for business in the upcoming transfer window
Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
What do we think of the price of football podcast? I love it except it doesn't seem long enough to really get into the meat of any subject so I'm usually left wanting more.
I thought the instance of the player questioning his new agents fees was brilliant story and how he hadn't realised that in his last contract his agent had been paid by the club seemingly without his knowledge for years (clubs paying agents #2455)
I thought the instance of the player questioning his new agents fees was brilliant story and how he hadn't realised that in his last contract his agent had been paid by the club seemingly without his knowledge for years (clubs paying agents #2455)
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
It seems purposely designed to be entertainment, and an introduction to the financial issues in the game, I personally think it lacks depth - almost all the stuff is old hat for this thread, that said the agent in the last 2 has been very good, and you get the occasional gem like TNS in the Welsh Premier League in today's podcast.
Would definitely like it to be more serious, Kieran has some serious issues/concerns that he rarely brings to the table in this and his other broadcast interviews
Would definitely like it to be more serious, Kieran has some serious issues/concerns that he rarely brings to the table in this and his other broadcast interviews
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Millwall become the 4th club from last years Championship to publish their financial results - @KieranMAguire has a look
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 8597537792" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is not far from a relegated Burnley without parachute payments I would think
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 8597537792" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is not far from a relegated Burnley without parachute payments I would think
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
I have been highlighting the woes of Macclesfield for some time now - this Guardian article summarises the anguish
https://www.theguardian.com/football/fo ... league-two" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/football/fo ... league-two" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
The bookies rig the system to profit themselves - is essentially what this article says - though many would do well to take note of the tricks they use
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... demic.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... demic.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
A useful reminder of the cosmopolitan nature of the Premier League owners
https://twitter.com/vysyble/status/1194258560064118784" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/vysyble/status/1194258560064118784" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
There has been much speculation recently about would/would not Chelsea be sold with contradictory stories appearing daily - the message now seems to be clear - Roman is not for selling and with the vibrancy of the new youthful Academy filled team he is enjoying his ownership again, plus their is hope that they can win their appeal at CAS in the next couple of weeks and bring in some reinforcements in January.
Here David Conn in the Guardian reminds just what it was that rose owner Roman Abramovich to power
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ealth-visa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here David Conn in the Guardian reminds just what it was that rose owner Roman Abramovich to power
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ealth-visa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
I can imagine the gut reaction of many football fans when they read the title of this article - "Javier Tebas: the clásico must always be for people in Asia or the US " but as I have said before this guy is a shrewd operator and the Premier League have allowed him prominence by creating the vacuum in Scudamore's absence
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... d-football" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... d-football" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
@SwissRamble digs into Man City's 2018/19 financial results- the aoofical accounts of which I posted last Tuesday
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 8500622336" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 8500622336" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Las Thursday I posted Millwall's 2018/19 financial results, @SwissRamble has had a look and shares his thoughts
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 0841143296" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/ ... 0841143296" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Apparently Man United know Old Trafford is decrepit but don't really know how best to take the next step forward with it - From the Telegraph
Manchester United look for ‘perfect solution’ to revamp Old Trafford
By James Ducker, Northern Football Correspondent - 26 November 2019 • 7:38am
review of their infrastructure, including Old Trafford and the club’s Carrington training base, amid recognition that modernisation is required.
The Glazer family, United’s owners, have faced criticism from supporters over the perceived neglect of Old Trafford. There have been complaints that it is looking “tired and tatty” at a time when many domestic and European rivals have either moved into new stadiums or are revamping existing grounds.
Tottenham Hotspur, Arsenal, Bayern Munich, Juventus and Atlético Madrid have all moved into new stadiums during the Glazer era and Real Madrid and Barcelona are upgrading the Santiago Bernabéu and Nou Camp respectively. Liverpool have redeveloped Anfield. San Siro, which is home to Milan giants AC and Inter, is due to be rebuilt.
Responding to claims the Glazers did not want to spend the money, Ed Woodward, United’s executive vice-chairman, said the club had invested £100 million in Old Trafford and other infrastructure over the past decade, including £20 million this year, but he acknowledged “that we need to do more”.
“We’re doing a big review in terms of where we are and what we need to do,” Woodward told the United We Stand fanzine. “We’re also looking at the training ground, The Cliff, Old Trafford and Littleton Road.”
Woodward said there were “no plans at present” to expand Old Trafford’s existing 76,000 capacity and that there was no desire to commit to developments that would materially change the “look and feel” of an iconic stadium.
“Our objectives for the stadium are for it to be safe, full and noisy,” he added. “Adding more seats can influence the third one, but has to be done in the right way.
“There are no plans currently to increase capacity, but I’m not saying it can’t happen long-term.
“If you totally change it then you can change the feel of it.
“We’re looking at an investment plan while maintaining what makes Old Trafford special. Part of the allure of United or Old Trafford is the fact that it’s a stadium that was built in 1910.
“Our vision for it is that we don’t want to radically change that look and feel. If you have Old Trafford and you regenerate, rejuvenate and keep it modern but keep it feeling like it’s Old Trafford, then that’s the perfect solution for us.”
Woodward said the prospect of creating a smaller stadium where the club’s junior teams and women’s team could play games, like Manchester City have at their CFA base, had been discussed but not gone any further at this stage.
He said United did intend to keep pushing for the introduction of safe standing areas at Old Trafford and are exploring the feasibility of a trial of rail seating.
Of the £20 million invested this year, £11 million had been committed to improvements to accessible facilities with a further £8 million on the refurbishment of hospitality areas and security upgrades.
Last month, United were heavily criticised by a coroner over failings that contributed directly to the death of a lifelong fan, John Whale, 80, during a derby game at Old Trafford in 2017.
At the inquest, a jury found that the behaviour of two of the club’s stewards – blocking an exit to the concourse at the stadium – had contributed to the death of the retired mining engineer.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cannot say I am convinced by the line of argument
Manchester United look for ‘perfect solution’ to revamp Old Trafford
By James Ducker, Northern Football Correspondent - 26 November 2019 • 7:38am
review of their infrastructure, including Old Trafford and the club’s Carrington training base, amid recognition that modernisation is required.
The Glazer family, United’s owners, have faced criticism from supporters over the perceived neglect of Old Trafford. There have been complaints that it is looking “tired and tatty” at a time when many domestic and European rivals have either moved into new stadiums or are revamping existing grounds.
Tottenham Hotspur, Arsenal, Bayern Munich, Juventus and Atlético Madrid have all moved into new stadiums during the Glazer era and Real Madrid and Barcelona are upgrading the Santiago Bernabéu and Nou Camp respectively. Liverpool have redeveloped Anfield. San Siro, which is home to Milan giants AC and Inter, is due to be rebuilt.
Responding to claims the Glazers did not want to spend the money, Ed Woodward, United’s executive vice-chairman, said the club had invested £100 million in Old Trafford and other infrastructure over the past decade, including £20 million this year, but he acknowledged “that we need to do more”.
“We’re doing a big review in terms of where we are and what we need to do,” Woodward told the United We Stand fanzine. “We’re also looking at the training ground, The Cliff, Old Trafford and Littleton Road.”
Woodward said there were “no plans at present” to expand Old Trafford’s existing 76,000 capacity and that there was no desire to commit to developments that would materially change the “look and feel” of an iconic stadium.
“Our objectives for the stadium are for it to be safe, full and noisy,” he added. “Adding more seats can influence the third one, but has to be done in the right way.
“There are no plans currently to increase capacity, but I’m not saying it can’t happen long-term.
“If you totally change it then you can change the feel of it.
“We’re looking at an investment plan while maintaining what makes Old Trafford special. Part of the allure of United or Old Trafford is the fact that it’s a stadium that was built in 1910.
“Our vision for it is that we don’t want to radically change that look and feel. If you have Old Trafford and you regenerate, rejuvenate and keep it modern but keep it feeling like it’s Old Trafford, then that’s the perfect solution for us.”
Woodward said the prospect of creating a smaller stadium where the club’s junior teams and women’s team could play games, like Manchester City have at their CFA base, had been discussed but not gone any further at this stage.
He said United did intend to keep pushing for the introduction of safe standing areas at Old Trafford and are exploring the feasibility of a trial of rail seating.
Of the £20 million invested this year, £11 million had been committed to improvements to accessible facilities with a further £8 million on the refurbishment of hospitality areas and security upgrades.
Last month, United were heavily criticised by a coroner over failings that contributed directly to the death of a lifelong fan, John Whale, 80, during a derby game at Old Trafford in 2017.
At the inquest, a jury found that the behaviour of two of the club’s stewards – blocking an exit to the concourse at the stadium – had contributed to the death of the retired mining engineer.
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cannot say I am convinced by the line of argument
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Apparently there is to be a new bookmakers code to stop the VIP targeting of vulnerable customers - let's hope they adhere to it
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... nters.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... nters.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Stories emerging that Man United are to get a £70m+ a year shirt sponsor to replace Chevrolet - not bad for a team currently below Wolves, Sheffield Utd and Burnley, who combined can't muster a third of that
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... Haier.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... Haier.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
KPMG's Football Benchmark takes a look at the ongoing boom in Football Stadium Development and digs down into the numbers
https://www.footballbenchmark.com/libra ... _continues" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.footballbenchmark.com/libra ... _continues" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Borussia Dortmund's Puma Kit Deal extension highlight's the cost of long term deals in terms of missed revenue opportunities
https://twitter.com/Football_BM/status/ ... 9771322368" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/Football_BM/status/ ... 9771322368" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
The limited Market place for Stadium naming rights at the highest level has just got a little more crowded as PSG look for a naming partner 0 is this just to meet Mbappe's latest salary demands while dealing with FFP
https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/psg- ... ng-rights/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/psg- ... ng-rights/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Football teams up with other sports to demand a levy on bookmakers to fund grassroots in their sports
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... kdown.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... kdown.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Chester Perry wrote:Stories emerging that Man United are to get a £70m+ a year shirt sponsor to replace Chevrolet - not bad for a team currently below Wolves, Sheffield Utd and Burnley, who combined can't muster a third of that
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... Haier.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
EDIT - not for the first time organisations are denying that they have been in negotiation with Man Utd over shirt sponsorship
https://twitter.com/titan_plus/status/1 ... 3357090817" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- who is trying to drive the price up?
Simon Chadwick also questioned it when the story broke
https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick/statu ... 4008602624" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Rangers require another £10m share issue to see them through the season (and that is before any Jan transfer window activity
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50556392" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50556392" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Simon looks at why those Saudi Arabia buying Manchester United stories will just not go away
https://www.policyforum.net/a-different ... g-contest/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and to help you understand the "rentier state" mentioned notion in that article he has also written this on that particular topic
http://www.ejinsight.com/20191125-the-r ... -football/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.policyforum.net/a-different ... g-contest/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and to help you understand the "rentier state" mentioned notion in that article he has also written this on that particular topic
http://www.ejinsight.com/20191125-the-r ... -football/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Old hat for this thread but a useful summary for those that are newer to it - Tifo Football on why China invested in English football
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZmzi4V ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Simon Chadwick again!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZmzi4V ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Simon Chadwick again!
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
@OmarChaudhouri (of 21stClub football analysis specialists) and @FootballLaw continue their series of chats - episode 2 - The Future of Broadcasting rights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Episode 1 is in post #2456 http://uptheclarets.com/messageboard/vi ... start=2455" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Episode 1 is in post #2456 http://uptheclarets.com/messageboard/vi ... start=2455" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Probably a very fair observation CP and, strange as it sounds on current league positions, Millwall are possibly the closest comparison with us with both clubs' off a level footing. Certainly Income would be very similar, they had an average attendance last season of just over 13,000 resulting in Matchday receipts of £5.6million and that is the exact same Matchday Income as ours.Chester Perry wrote:Millwall become the 4th club from last years Championship to publish their financial results - @KieranMAguire has a look
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 8597537792" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is not far from a relegated Burnley without parachute payments I would think
Thanks largely to parachute payments and Wage relegation clauses Burnley have at least a three year buffer before we reach comparable levels with the likes of Millwall again but I suspect that fateful day is always in minds of our Board of Directors when planning ahead. The first two years parachute payments of £43million and £35million being particularly crucial.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Looks like the fans who own AFC Wimbledon are going to have to make some very big decisions on their ownership structure in the next two weeks - they cannot raise enough money to pay for the development of their new ground from the banks and the individuals who are prepared to do so want equity for their investment
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 96711.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/mrkfm01/status/1199082725556269057" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 96711.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/mrkfm01/status/1199082725556269057" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Earlier this week @AndyhHolt revealed that Accy are currently in the red to the tune of about £145k - The new pitch mean't they had no home pre-season games and then they lost a big earner when Bury were removed from the league - here he gives a breakdown on match by match earnings - he has done this before and no other club does this
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 7129670656" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 5543116800" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 2948179969" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
the financial realities down there are stark - which is why he has been so vocal in campaigning for change. Meanwhile he has been getting Dog's abuse from both Bury and Bolton fan's in the last week - no surprise that a lot don't like the truth
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 7129670656" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 5543116800" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 2948179969" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
the financial realities down there are stark - which is why he has been so vocal in campaigning for change. Meanwhile he has been getting Dog's abuse from both Bury and Bolton fan's in the last week - no surprise that a lot don't like the truth
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Is there a chance that the Premier Leagues new boss will have to stand down before he even starts
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -sexy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
follow the Susan Dinnage U-turn and the vacuum at the top this would be very welcome news to La Liga and Javier Tebas
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -sexy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
follow the Susan Dinnage U-turn and the vacuum at the top this would be very welcome news to La Liga and Javier Tebas
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
Episode 8 of the Price of Football Podcast - looks into Man City finances after yesterdays news re new investment
https://twitter.com/GuyKilty/status/1199966853919117312" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
if you mussed it - it first appeared here - http://uptheclarets.com/messageboard/vi ... =2&t=43421" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/GuyKilty/status/1199966853919117312" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
if you mussed it - it first appeared here - http://uptheclarets.com/messageboard/vi ... =2&t=43421" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Chester Perry on Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
More on Man City or CFG really - they are about to take on their 8th team, in India - which I have trailed a few times this year
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -club.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... -club.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
I have talked about the ways different owner culture affects the way about they go about their business - usually it involes their approach to the governing rules - this is a little different
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... steel.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
you do get a lot of good pictures of this new facility at Leicester, and again as I have said before if this has cost close to £100m we should never claim Gawthorpe, wonderful and transformational as it has been, is no where near state of the art
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... steel.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
you do get a lot of good pictures of this new facility at Leicester, and again as I have said before if this has cost close to £100m we should never claim Gawthorpe, wonderful and transformational as it has been, is no where near state of the art
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
EDIT as ever there is an interesting nugget of information - today's is about David Moyes and the end of his tenure at Man United, and tax investigations at Newcastle amongst othersChester Perry wrote:Episode 8 of the Price of Football Podcast - looks into Man City finances after yesterdays news re new investment
https://twitter.com/GuyKilty/status/1199966853919117312" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
if you mussed it - it first appeared here - http://uptheclarets.com/messageboard/vi ... =2&t=43421" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Chester Perry on Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Football's Magic Money Tree
So why do CFG continue to grow - this from the Telegraph provides some insight, but no answer and a great overview of CFG itself
Expansion of City Football Group knows no limits — the question is why they bother
Sam Wallace -Chief Football Writer - 28 November 2019 • 7:30am
The next frontier in which Manchester City will plunge the flag will be Mumbai, and its Indian Super League club, currently seventh in a 10-team division, home crowds averaging fewer than 5,000 and about to join the biggest club football operation in the world.
Mumbai City Football Club already have the right football acronym, they even have Peter Reid among their four former managers, as well as another City old boy Nicolas Anelka, and no doubt there will more changes to come.
They are just five years old and there is no tradition too deep-seated that it cannot be tweaked by the new owners City Football Group (CFG), already active in seven clubs in seven countries across five continents and growing larger by the year.
For those sufficiently determined to read the boutique publication that is Ferran Soriano’s 2009 book, Goal: The Ball Doesn’t Go In By Chance – Management Ideas From The World Of Football none of this will come as a surprise. The CFG chief executive sees the world as a place where the “winners” are those “creative enough to come up with new ideas and brave enough to put their ideas into practice” and since selling his vision to his Abu Dhabi bosses, Soriano has certainly pursued his own version of the future.
In February CFG added Sichuan Jiuniu FC to the roster, a third-tier Chinese club, and since then City have become Premier League champions again and their Japanese partners, Yokohama F Marinos, are two wins from their first J-League title in 15 years. New York City won Major League Soccer’s Eastern Conference. Melbourne City are top of the A-League. Atletico Torque have been promoted to Uruguay's Primera Division. Girona, relegated from Spain’s top flight last season, and Sichaun Jiuniu are not quite so upwardly mobile but then this empire was not built overnight.
The CFG acquisition programme has no direct comparison in world football.
One might point to the Red Bull energy drinks football empire encompassing New York, Leipzig and Salzburg but, in terms of size and scope, CFG is a cut above everyone else, constructed with the energy levels of someone who drinks nothing other than highly-caffeinated fizzy drinks. What has changed this week is that the investment from the US private equity firm Silver Lake suggests that others see the value in it too.
For Soriano, CFG and those there when the Spaniard’s predecessor Garry Cook promised to conquer the world at the start of the Abu Dhabi revolution in 2008, the Silver Lake investment of £389 million for a 10 per cent stake, valuing CFG at £3.73 billion, is vindication. It not only allows CFG to claim that it is the most valuable sports franchise property in the world but also it means that the investment by Sheikh Mansour of around £1.6 billion to acquire and transform Manchester City, and the CFG affiliates, looks like it might pay for itself.
The bigger it grows the bigger the question: why are they doing it? We never see CFG’s majority nominal owner, and so the assumption is that it exists for the glory of a tiny Gulf state and its leaders, to enhance Abu Dhabi’s reputation and, by extension, its global security.
It is easier to explain from a football perspective. As a sporting and financial enterprise, this enormous Abu Dhabi investment project has acquired its partner clubs in different regions for often different reasons. In the US, India, Japan and Australia, the CFG clubs offer opportunities for the size of the Manchester City fan base to be increased at an accelerated rate by contact with a local entity and thus to enhance commercial value. So too in China although the Chinese market is much more complicated, hence the original equity sale of 12 per cent of CFG for £265 million in 2015 to China Media Capital, which has since acted as a partner in the acquisition of Sichuan Jiuniu.
In Uruguay, where Torque cost around an annual £1 million to run, CFG has a foothold in the South American player market and already the Argentine midfielder Valentín Castellanos has made his way from Montevideo to New York City.
In Spain, Girona are a deal with Pep Guardiola’s brother Pere, a co-owner, which brings obvious benefits in cementing the relationship with their manager.
In Japan, Nissan, the co-owners of the F Marinos wanted a part of CFG’s football expertise to revitalise their club, while in India, where there is very little short-term chance of a player being able to make the transition to European football, the relationship is different again.
Staff and players are moved around the group. CFG has always denied that there is any financial fair play benefit to be derived by Manchester City by spreading the wage bill among its satellite clubs. Only non-playing staff wages can be split across the group and that cost is minimal compared to that of playing talent.
Back in Manchester, there is a proposed new arena to be built on the Etihad Stadium site by an operator in which Silver Lake has also invested. CFG will not confirm the size of its Manchester portfolio, estimated in some quarters as greater than £300 million. It feels like the foundations of an empire being laid, something that will be expected to last for years. Its construction began in the final years of the one that preceded it, Manchester United’s era of dominance under Sir Alex Ferguson when it seemed improbable that their often calamitous, resolutely local city neighbours could ever exert a global reach.
Yet here go City, opening another new operation in India. They never had anything like the international fan base of United so they set about creating a network to make it happen by buying clubs that meant something to different people in different countries. They had no allies or connections in the world of football politics and yet on Tuesday night the Uefa President Aleksandar Ceferin was at the Etihad Stadium, a personal guest of CFG chairman Khaldoon Al-Mubarak.
So where does it all end? When Ferguson ruled at Old Trafford and United were the biggest club in the country it felt eternal, as these things always do. It needed a vast jolt of capital, and ambition, to move the dial and now, 11 years on, others are buying into the Abu Dhabi vision of Manchester City, of their affiliate partners and of the future of football. Yet still at the heart of this giant £4 billion entity is Abu Dhabi, the notably absent Sheikh Mansour and the lingering question: why?
1. Manchester City
2018-19 accounts (most recently available) Revenue: £535.2m; Profit: £10.1m
Honours: 4x Premier League, 2x FA Cup, 4x EFL Cup, 3x Community Shield, 1x Women’s Super League, 2x FA Women’s Cup, 3x Women’s League Cup
Since buying City for a reported £150 million in 2008, the Abu Dhabi United Group has spent more than £1.5 billion on the club, nearly all of it on players.
2. Girona FC (44.3 per cent stake)
Revenue: TBC; Profit/loss: TBC
Honours: None
In August 2017, CFG and Girona Football Group bought an equal stake in Girona after they won promotion to La Liga for the first time. Shortly after the purchase, City became engulfed in an extraordinary legal row with the Spanish football league after being accused of trying to “cooking the books” on loan deals between them. CFG categorically denied this.
3. New York City (80 per cent stake)
2017-18 accounts (most recently available) Revenue: £40.4m; Loss: Unknown
Honours: Reached MLS Cup play-offs for first time in 2018.
Formed six years ago by City and the owners of the New York Yankees, New York City is the first Major League Soccer franchise to play in the city. Star signings have included David Villa, Frank Lampard and Andrea Pirlo.
4. Club Athletico Torque (stake unknown)
Revenue: Unknown; Profit/loss: Unknown
Honours: 2x Segunda Division
CFG invested in Uruguayan side Club Atletico Torque in April 2017, giving it a foothold in the lucrative market for South American players. Founded in 2007, Torque were promoted to the Uruguayan Primera Division for the first time in its history within 12 months of the investment.
5. Sichuan Jiuniu
Revenue: Unknown; Profit/loss: Unknown
Honours: None
In February, CFG announced the acquisition of Sichuan Jiuniu in China League 2, together with CFG shareholders China Media Capital Holdings (CMC), through China Sports Capital, and Manchester City partner UBTECH.
6. Yokohama Marinos (19.9 per stake)
Revenue: Unknown; Profit/loss: Unknown
Honours: None
CFG were announced five years ago as a minority stakeholder in one of the founding members of the J-League. The club were founded in 1972 as Nissan Motors FC, and the car giant remains their majority owner.
7. Melbourne City
2017-18 accounts (most recently available): Revenue: £9.5m; Loss: Unknown
Honours: 1x Football Federation Australia Cup, 1x W-League Premiers, 3x W-League Champions.
Formed a decade ago as Melbourne Heart, Melbourne City was rebranded in 2014 after a majority stake was bought by CFG, which acquired 100 per cent of the club the following year.
8. Mumbai City
CFG’s aggressive global expansion plans will extend to the imminent purchase of the Indian Super League side, who will become the eighth club in the group’s stable.
CFG investors
Abu Dhabi United Group (77 per cent stake)
The private equity company owned by Abu Dhabi royal family member Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan bought City for a reported £150m in 2008 and formed CFG six years later. Silver Lake’s purchase of a 10 per cent stake has now made the group the world’s most valuable sports franchise, worth close to £4bn.
China Media Capital Holdings/CITIC Capital (13 per cent stake)
The Chinese consortium bought a $400m (£310.4m) stake in CFG almost four years ago that valued the group at $3bn (£2.3bn). The partnership was announced after China president Xi Jinping visited City during his state visit to Britain. It has already resulted in CFC’s investment in Sichuan Jiuniu.
Silver Lake (10 per cent stake)
The US private equity firm’s £389m purchase of a 10 per cent stake of CFG will be used primarily to fund its expansion plans, including the imminent purchase of Mumbai City.
City Football Group
2017-18 accounts (most recently available)
Revenue: £584.8 million (£500.5m City, New York City £40.4m – up 34.2 per cent, Melbourne City £9.5m, Others £34.4m)
Loss: £44.8m (down from £71.1m). Loss minus City’s £10.4m profit: £55.2m
Expansion of City Football Group knows no limits — the question is why they bother
Sam Wallace -Chief Football Writer - 28 November 2019 • 7:30am
The next frontier in which Manchester City will plunge the flag will be Mumbai, and its Indian Super League club, currently seventh in a 10-team division, home crowds averaging fewer than 5,000 and about to join the biggest club football operation in the world.
Mumbai City Football Club already have the right football acronym, they even have Peter Reid among their four former managers, as well as another City old boy Nicolas Anelka, and no doubt there will more changes to come.
They are just five years old and there is no tradition too deep-seated that it cannot be tweaked by the new owners City Football Group (CFG), already active in seven clubs in seven countries across five continents and growing larger by the year.
For those sufficiently determined to read the boutique publication that is Ferran Soriano’s 2009 book, Goal: The Ball Doesn’t Go In By Chance – Management Ideas From The World Of Football none of this will come as a surprise. The CFG chief executive sees the world as a place where the “winners” are those “creative enough to come up with new ideas and brave enough to put their ideas into practice” and since selling his vision to his Abu Dhabi bosses, Soriano has certainly pursued his own version of the future.
In February CFG added Sichuan Jiuniu FC to the roster, a third-tier Chinese club, and since then City have become Premier League champions again and their Japanese partners, Yokohama F Marinos, are two wins from their first J-League title in 15 years. New York City won Major League Soccer’s Eastern Conference. Melbourne City are top of the A-League. Atletico Torque have been promoted to Uruguay's Primera Division. Girona, relegated from Spain’s top flight last season, and Sichaun Jiuniu are not quite so upwardly mobile but then this empire was not built overnight.
The CFG acquisition programme has no direct comparison in world football.
One might point to the Red Bull energy drinks football empire encompassing New York, Leipzig and Salzburg but, in terms of size and scope, CFG is a cut above everyone else, constructed with the energy levels of someone who drinks nothing other than highly-caffeinated fizzy drinks. What has changed this week is that the investment from the US private equity firm Silver Lake suggests that others see the value in it too.
For Soriano, CFG and those there when the Spaniard’s predecessor Garry Cook promised to conquer the world at the start of the Abu Dhabi revolution in 2008, the Silver Lake investment of £389 million for a 10 per cent stake, valuing CFG at £3.73 billion, is vindication. It not only allows CFG to claim that it is the most valuable sports franchise property in the world but also it means that the investment by Sheikh Mansour of around £1.6 billion to acquire and transform Manchester City, and the CFG affiliates, looks like it might pay for itself.
The bigger it grows the bigger the question: why are they doing it? We never see CFG’s majority nominal owner, and so the assumption is that it exists for the glory of a tiny Gulf state and its leaders, to enhance Abu Dhabi’s reputation and, by extension, its global security.
It is easier to explain from a football perspective. As a sporting and financial enterprise, this enormous Abu Dhabi investment project has acquired its partner clubs in different regions for often different reasons. In the US, India, Japan and Australia, the CFG clubs offer opportunities for the size of the Manchester City fan base to be increased at an accelerated rate by contact with a local entity and thus to enhance commercial value. So too in China although the Chinese market is much more complicated, hence the original equity sale of 12 per cent of CFG for £265 million in 2015 to China Media Capital, which has since acted as a partner in the acquisition of Sichuan Jiuniu.
In Uruguay, where Torque cost around an annual £1 million to run, CFG has a foothold in the South American player market and already the Argentine midfielder Valentín Castellanos has made his way from Montevideo to New York City.
In Spain, Girona are a deal with Pep Guardiola’s brother Pere, a co-owner, which brings obvious benefits in cementing the relationship with their manager.
In Japan, Nissan, the co-owners of the F Marinos wanted a part of CFG’s football expertise to revitalise their club, while in India, where there is very little short-term chance of a player being able to make the transition to European football, the relationship is different again.
Staff and players are moved around the group. CFG has always denied that there is any financial fair play benefit to be derived by Manchester City by spreading the wage bill among its satellite clubs. Only non-playing staff wages can be split across the group and that cost is minimal compared to that of playing talent.
Back in Manchester, there is a proposed new arena to be built on the Etihad Stadium site by an operator in which Silver Lake has also invested. CFG will not confirm the size of its Manchester portfolio, estimated in some quarters as greater than £300 million. It feels like the foundations of an empire being laid, something that will be expected to last for years. Its construction began in the final years of the one that preceded it, Manchester United’s era of dominance under Sir Alex Ferguson when it seemed improbable that their often calamitous, resolutely local city neighbours could ever exert a global reach.
Yet here go City, opening another new operation in India. They never had anything like the international fan base of United so they set about creating a network to make it happen by buying clubs that meant something to different people in different countries. They had no allies or connections in the world of football politics and yet on Tuesday night the Uefa President Aleksandar Ceferin was at the Etihad Stadium, a personal guest of CFG chairman Khaldoon Al-Mubarak.
So where does it all end? When Ferguson ruled at Old Trafford and United were the biggest club in the country it felt eternal, as these things always do. It needed a vast jolt of capital, and ambition, to move the dial and now, 11 years on, others are buying into the Abu Dhabi vision of Manchester City, of their affiliate partners and of the future of football. Yet still at the heart of this giant £4 billion entity is Abu Dhabi, the notably absent Sheikh Mansour and the lingering question: why?
1. Manchester City
2018-19 accounts (most recently available) Revenue: £535.2m; Profit: £10.1m
Honours: 4x Premier League, 2x FA Cup, 4x EFL Cup, 3x Community Shield, 1x Women’s Super League, 2x FA Women’s Cup, 3x Women’s League Cup
Since buying City for a reported £150 million in 2008, the Abu Dhabi United Group has spent more than £1.5 billion on the club, nearly all of it on players.
2. Girona FC (44.3 per cent stake)
Revenue: TBC; Profit/loss: TBC
Honours: None
In August 2017, CFG and Girona Football Group bought an equal stake in Girona after they won promotion to La Liga for the first time. Shortly after the purchase, City became engulfed in an extraordinary legal row with the Spanish football league after being accused of trying to “cooking the books” on loan deals between them. CFG categorically denied this.
3. New York City (80 per cent stake)
2017-18 accounts (most recently available) Revenue: £40.4m; Loss: Unknown
Honours: Reached MLS Cup play-offs for first time in 2018.
Formed six years ago by City and the owners of the New York Yankees, New York City is the first Major League Soccer franchise to play in the city. Star signings have included David Villa, Frank Lampard and Andrea Pirlo.
4. Club Athletico Torque (stake unknown)
Revenue: Unknown; Profit/loss: Unknown
Honours: 2x Segunda Division
CFG invested in Uruguayan side Club Atletico Torque in April 2017, giving it a foothold in the lucrative market for South American players. Founded in 2007, Torque were promoted to the Uruguayan Primera Division for the first time in its history within 12 months of the investment.
5. Sichuan Jiuniu
Revenue: Unknown; Profit/loss: Unknown
Honours: None
In February, CFG announced the acquisition of Sichuan Jiuniu in China League 2, together with CFG shareholders China Media Capital Holdings (CMC), through China Sports Capital, and Manchester City partner UBTECH.
6. Yokohama Marinos (19.9 per stake)
Revenue: Unknown; Profit/loss: Unknown
Honours: None
CFG were announced five years ago as a minority stakeholder in one of the founding members of the J-League. The club were founded in 1972 as Nissan Motors FC, and the car giant remains their majority owner.
7. Melbourne City
2017-18 accounts (most recently available): Revenue: £9.5m; Loss: Unknown
Honours: 1x Football Federation Australia Cup, 1x W-League Premiers, 3x W-League Champions.
Formed a decade ago as Melbourne Heart, Melbourne City was rebranded in 2014 after a majority stake was bought by CFG, which acquired 100 per cent of the club the following year.
8. Mumbai City
CFG’s aggressive global expansion plans will extend to the imminent purchase of the Indian Super League side, who will become the eighth club in the group’s stable.
CFG investors
Abu Dhabi United Group (77 per cent stake)
The private equity company owned by Abu Dhabi royal family member Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan bought City for a reported £150m in 2008 and formed CFG six years later. Silver Lake’s purchase of a 10 per cent stake has now made the group the world’s most valuable sports franchise, worth close to £4bn.
China Media Capital Holdings/CITIC Capital (13 per cent stake)
The Chinese consortium bought a $400m (£310.4m) stake in CFG almost four years ago that valued the group at $3bn (£2.3bn). The partnership was announced after China president Xi Jinping visited City during his state visit to Britain. It has already resulted in CFC’s investment in Sichuan Jiuniu.
Silver Lake (10 per cent stake)
The US private equity firm’s £389m purchase of a 10 per cent stake of CFG will be used primarily to fund its expansion plans, including the imminent purchase of Mumbai City.
City Football Group
2017-18 accounts (most recently available)
Revenue: £584.8 million (£500.5m City, New York City £40.4m – up 34.2 per cent, Melbourne City £9.5m, Others £34.4m)
Loss: £44.8m (down from £71.1m). Loss minus City’s £10.4m profit: £55.2m