UK Economy suffers Triple Blow

[dpinsussex]

No one agrees with my politics DP!

Everyone is either mentally right wing or mentally left wing these days. its very hard work!

Better than getting splinters in your as we sitting middle of the road lol

[dpinsussex]

That's right because all people from Burnley have impoverished lives.
You sound a right tit.

Thanks I have a right tit. I also have a left one. Given the majority on here are from Burnley it's a generic. But having lived in the area most my life can see trends. I moved away because I wanted to make a difference for my family. I don't sit whinging about life. I just get on with it.

[dpinsussex]

Oh and guess what I have to go to bed now as I have to be up early to keep this great nation of ours going. GOOD NIGHT

[Damo]

I'm at least capable of understanding the issue was a global one.

You lot are all completely mental, you probably blame the EU if it rains.

https://www.ft.com/content/74ab02a6-fd8 ... 144feab49a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bin Ont Turf]

Thanks I have a right tit. I also have a left one. Given the majority on here are from Burnley it's a generic. But having lived in the area most my life can see trends. I moved away because I wanted to make a difference for my family. I don't sit whinging about life. I just get on with it.

You do come across as a right tit when you post lines like this though.......

Burnley people like to blame anyone except themselves for being impoverished irrespective of politics.

If you'd have put the word 'some' before Burnley, then I wouldn't be here.

[Damo]

Burnley people like to blame anyone except themselves for being impoverished irrespective of politics. That said there is a theme with their politics.
Any other opinion is wrong in their opinion.

Seriously the world does not owe you anything. The only one who can influence your life is you. Get a fo ok ing grip and take control over yours and your families lives.

Sorry but in or out we will make this country great again. I didn't want to leave but have accepted that we are leaving and fully intent on making this country successful.

Ps I don't agree with Lancasters politics but he does talk with an element of knowledge

Some guy from Sussex telling Burnley people about their local issues.
Kind of sums this debate up to be honest

[RingoMcCartney]

Any one who thinks the EU killed the manufacturing in Burnley shouldn't be listened to either to be fair.

You seem to think you know what killed manufacturing in burnley. You seem to think it wasn't membership of the EU.

So i ask you again.

Who knows what is best for Burnley with regards to EU membership? The People of Burnley (The vast majority of whose voters have chosen to leave it) who've had 40 odd years to make their own personal impact assessment.

Or you?

[Damo]

You seem to think you know what killed manufacturing in burnley. You seem to think it wasn't membership of the EU.

So i ask you again.

Who knows what is best for Burnley with regards to EU membership? The People of Burnley (The vast majority of whose voters have chosen to leave it) who've had 40 odd years to make their own personal impact assessment.

Or you?

Him definitely
He won't explain why other than that he knows more than everyone else.
Just accept it and stop being so stupid

[RingoMcCartney]

Seriously the world does not owe you anything. The only one who can influence your life is you. Get a fo ok ing grip and take control over yours and your families lives.

We don't think the world owes us anything.

And we didnt need to take your advice about, "getting a grip and take control over yours and your families lives."

WE VOTED TO LEAVE.

[Lancasterclaret]

I'd listen to convincing arguments that suggest otherwise Ringo.

You appear to be concentrating on me being one of the very many Burnley fans who don't live in the town, which is a bit silly and convincing me more than ever that you struggle with people who are not what you are used to.

Can you explain how the immigration issues that you highlighted in your previous post are anything to do with the EU as well please.

[RingoMcCartney]

Him definitely
He won't explain why other than that he knows more than everyone else.
Just accept it and stop being so stupid

By breeezing into Burnley once a fortnight to visit the Turf. Listening to grinding monologues by the posh boy, socialist with starff, James Obrian. And opinion pieces in the guardian by the likes of Polly Toynbee, about what the North experiences. They trully believe they know what's better for Burnley. Than the People who actually live here.

To be fair, at least Sussex and lancs claret, haven't stooped to the levels of uphisownhole, and called half the population of our town, the women, "scrubbers"

[RingoMcCartney]

I'd listen to convincing arguments that suggest otherwise Ringo.

You appear to be concentrating on me being one of the very many Burnley fans who don't live in the town, which is a bit silly and convincing me more than ever that you struggle with people who are not what you are used to.

Can you explain how the immigration issues that you highlighted in your previous post are anything to do with the EU as well please.

Swerving like **** now lancs.

You seem to think you know what killed manufacturing in burnley. You seem to think it wasn't membership of the EU.

So i ask you again.

Who knows what is best for Burnley with regards to EU membership? The People of Burnley (The vast majority of whose voters have chosen to leave it) who've had 40 odd years to make their own personal impact assessment.

Or you?

Having a large pool of cheap foreign Labour, thanks to EUs free movement of people principle. Means there is an over supply of unskilled labour. Even Ed Miliband admitted in the 2015 election campaign there'd been a race to the bottom on wages, thanks to uncontrolled immigration. If you went to Burnley job centre you'd see minimum wage as the average wage. You see importing a large city each year puts pressure on public services on roads and housing. As a poor eastern European coming to the UK, I wont be able to afford to live in nice leafy places like Lancaster or Chiswick where your hero Obrain lives. But to.poor towns like Burnley where rents are relatively low. Every time I hear exploitative employers claiming , " I just can't get local British workers" I want the interviewer to ask, " but what poverty wages are you offering?"

By supporting free movement of people you're simply backing the latter day master sweeps of this world. More in common with Mike Ashley than your average Leave voting Burnleyite.

Now, I've tried to answer your question. For the 3rd time

Who knows what is best for Burnley with regards to EU membership? The People of Burnley (The vast majority of whose voters have chosen to leave it) who've had 40 odd years to make their own personal impact assessment.

Or you?

[Spijed]

Ringo, considering the majority of immigrants in Burnley are from outside of the EU how will leaving help reduce numbers?

[RingoMcCartney]

Ringo, considering the majority of immigrants in Burnley are from outside of the EU how will leaving help reduce numbers?

1, are they? Do you have the figures on EU and non EU migrants in burnley?

2, leaving the EU, means ending free movement of people. That must help to reduce numbers. Surely?

[Dazzler]

Remainers Motto:
Believe we can't and it will fail

[evensteadiereddie]

Brexiters' Motto:
Believe we can and it will fail.
Oh and when you get rattled if people challenge you add lots of
And then wait for the rest of your half-witted redneck gang to turn up and extol the virtues of good ol' Burnley folk.
And, if all else fails, threaten someone you'll meet them for a full and frank discussion "if you can be bothered" and, funnily enough, chicken out.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Ringo, considering the majority of immigrants in Burnley are from outside of the EU how will leaving help reduce numbers?

I’ve stayed away from this topic recently because these threads are all degenerating, but this is a common perception and one that, in my view, is incorrect.

It isn’t about numbers, though they will come down, more in some locations than others. It is about the culture, identity, feel of the country. Many, many studies now point to this as being behind populism.

Free movement is disasterous because it actively discourages countries from having policies aimed at integration. How can we have citizenship drives aimed at (for example) getting our south-Asians to integrate into a British way of life when we cannot do the same to EU migrants (or at least, cannot mandate it)?

If a Romanian can come in, earn a few bob, don’t bother to integrate, and just mix with other Romanians, how can we force others to do different?

Integration and a British bill of rights are crucial. We need to reinforce rights (e.g. the rights of women not to have to undergo some humiliating medical procedures) and thus reinforce the British way of life, which for some daft reason some people think is something for us to be embarrassed about. If you want it, you stay, if you don’t, you go.

Ironically, I think there is a lot to learn from other cultures (e.g. Denmark’s Hygge). That’s why we should try to retain close links to the EU, but only if the above can be prioritised too, which currently it cannot.

Anyway, that’s why leaving the EU will benefit in a migration sense.

[Lancasterclaret]

So we force people to integrate now? Yeah, that will work

What is the British Way of life though? its constantly changing (which isn't a bad thing)

Fully agree on standardisation across the UK of stuff like abortions (FGM is already illegal)

Ringo, industrial decline in Burnley and other areas is due to many factors, mainly globalisation (which I agree the EU plays a part in, but the decline set in long before we joined the EU) There is an interesting debate to be had at whereabouts we'd be in we'd never joined the EU in the first place and how our manufacturing/services base would look but it would purely be an academic exercise because the rise of the rest of the world manufacturing means we certainly can't turn the clock back.

And stop telling me I can't have an opinion because I don't live in Burnley, its not like I'm not in there more often than most who live in East Lancs is it?

[RingoMcCartney]

So we force people to integrate now? Yeah, that will work

What is the British Way of life though? its constantly changing (which isn't a bad thing)

Fully agree on standardisation across the UK of stuff like abortions (FGM is already illegal)

Ringo, industrial decline in Burnley and other areas is due to many factors, mainly globalisation (which I agree the EU plays a part in, but the decline set in long before we joined the EU) There is an interesting debate to be had at whereabouts we'd be in we'd never joined the EU in the first place and how our manufacturing/services base would look but it would purely be an academic exercise because the rise of the rest of the world manufacturing means we certainly can't turn the clock back.

And stop telling me I can't have an opinion because I don't live in Burnley, its not like I'm not in there more often than most who live in East Lancs is it?

3 attempts at answering a straight forward question. Still no straight forward answer. Fair enough.

[RingoMcCartney]

Brexiters' Motto:
Believe we can and it will fail.
Oh and when you get rattled if people challenge you add lots of
And then wait for the rest of your half-witted redneck gang to turn up and extol the virtues of good ol' Burnley folk.
And, if all else fails, threaten someone you'll meet them for a full and frank discussion "if you can be bothered" and, funnily enough, chicken out.

Some quality rewriting of history there Edward old chap.

1, as I pointed out previously, there was no "threat" to meet you.

2, you made it clear that you didn't want the pleasure of my company.

Get your facts right pillock.

[UpTheBeehole]

3 attempts at answering a straight forward question. Still no straight forward answer. Fair enough.

That's rich, coming from you

[Lancasterclaret]

I have answered it.

Not a complete shock that you haven't answered any of mine is it?

[RingoMcCartney]

I have answered it.

Not a complete shock that you haven't answered any of mine is it?

Who knows what is best for Burnley with regards to EU membership? The People of Burnley (The vast majority of whose voters have chosen to leave it) who've had 40 odd years to make their own personal impact assessment.

Or you?

[RingoMcCartney]

I have answered it.

Not a complete shock that you haven't answered any of mine is it?

This is me cutting n pasting from my previous post. Where I clearly answered your question.

Having a large pool of cheap foreign Labour, thanks to EUs free movement of people principle. Means there is an over supply of unskilled labour. Even Ed Miliband admitted in the 2015 election campaign there'd been a race to the bottom on wages, thanks to uncontrolled immigration. If you went to Burnley job centre you'd see minimum wage as the average wage. You see importing a large city each year puts pressure on public services on roads and housing. As a poor eastern European coming to the UK, I wont be able to afford to live in nice leafy places like Lancaster or Chiswick where your hero Obrain lives. But to.poor towns like Burnley where rents are relatively low. Every time I hear exploitative employers claiming , " I just can't get local British workers" I want the interviewer to ask, " but what poverty wages are you offering?"

By supporting free movement of people you're simply backing the latter day master sweeps of this world. More in common with Mike Ashley than your average Leave voting Burnleyite.

Last try.

Who knows what is best for Burnley with regards to EU membership? The People of Burnley (The vast majority of whose voters have chosen to leave it) who've had 40 odd years to make their own personal impact assessment.

Or you?


Cos right now you're looking like your saying the 28854 who voted to Leave don't know what's best and, well, you do.!

[Lancasterclaret]

Its like arguing with a child

It really is.

[RingoMcCartney]

Its like arguing with a child

It really is.

Disagree. At least kids can give straight forward answers to straight forward questions.



Very last time.


Who knows what is best for Burnley with regards to EU membership? The People of Burnley (The vast majority of whose voters have chosen to leave it) who've had 40 odd years to make their own personal impact assessment.?

Or you?

[UpTheBeehole]

It's not like arguing with a child, it's like arguing with the world's thickest man.

[nil_desperandum]

2, leaving the EU, means ending free movement of people. That must help to reduce numbers. Surely?

It potentially could, but it would depend on the new Trade deals that we negotiate.
Any new free trade deal is likely to involve free movement of goods , services and workers.
India are very keen on this. Population 1.32 Billlion.
There are over 1.5 million people in the UK of Indian descent. The number who might potentially want to come over to join them in the initial phase could make the number of Roumanians etc. look trivial.

[Lancasterclaret]

Please, please let it be the very last time.

[RingoMcCartney]

Please, please let it be the very last time.

You had several opportunities Lancs.

Final Score.

Ringo 1 . Lancaster "The Swerver" Claret 0

[Lancasterclaret]

hahahhaahhahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Never change Ringo, never change

[RingoMcCartney]

It potentially could, but it would depend on the new Trade deals that we negotiate.
Any new free trade deal is likely to involve free movement of goods , services and workers.
India are very keen on this. Population 1.32 Billlion.
There are over 1.5 million people in the UK of Indian descent. The number who might potentially want to come over to join them in the initial phase could make the number of Roumanians etc. look trivial.

3 key words in this post.

"Potentially" could

"Likely" to involve free movement.

"Might" potentially want.

Lots up in the air. At least, once we're out of the EU, it's the British government that decides immigration policy ( hopefully on a points based basis). If the electorate don't like it, they can have their say and elect a new government that reflects their opinion more closely.

The majority of british people believe that being in the EU means that accountability is transferred to Brussels. That's why" taking back control " really hit a chord with so many. Now you may not have agreed with the notion. It's irrelevant. Millions did.

[nil_desperandum]

3 key words in this post.

"Potentially" could

"Likely" to involve free movement.

"Might" potentially want.

Lots up in the air. At least, once we're out of the EU, it's the British government that decides immigration policy ( hopefully on a points based basis). If the electorate don't like it, they can have their say and elect a new government that reflects their opinion more closely.

The majority of british people believe that being in the EU means that accountability is transferred to Brussels. That's why" taking back control " really hit a chord with so many. Now you may not have agreed with the notion. It's irrelevant. Millions did.

One of your most measured and sensible posts Ringo. (Long may it continue).
I was simply pointing out the realistic potential immigration issues in the future, and at least you haven't dismissed them as total nonsense. (That's real progress in my book )

[Lancasterclaret]

You need to post more like that Ringo, and less of the other one (though we'd all miss him!)

[Spijed]

Ringo, it's also worth pointing out that many millions wanted to stay in the EU and still do.

Yet their views get dismissed out of hand.

[RingoMcCartney]

Ringo, it's also worth pointing out that many millions wanted to stay in the EU and still do.

Yet their views get dismissed out of hand.

Correct they did and still do.

However, in a binary (but no less democratic) referendum. There can be, by it's very nature, only one option that prevails.

[nil_desperandum]

Correct they did and still do.

However, in a binary (but no less democratic) referendum. There can be, by it's very nature, only one option that prevails.

Whilst you're in the mood for sensible debate, let's agree that it was a binary referendum.
The issue is that alternative 1 (remain) was dismissed, so we move on to alternative 2 (leave).
Now the issue is: how we leave, when we can achieve this by, and what bits do we want to try to retain.. So whilst we are leaving there's no hurry to the exit door. Negotiating the best deal we can get is the priority and this isn't a simple binary issue. There are many variants. You can read articles by all the "senior" brexiteers, and none of them are consistent in all aspects of what we want / need post brexit. This has left the government deeply divided, as is the country as a whole.

[RingoMcCartney]

Whilst you're in the mood for sensible debate, let's agree that it was a binary referendum.
The issue is that alternative 1 (remain) was dismissed, so we move on to alternative 2 (leave).
Now the issue is: how we leave, when we can achieve this by, and what bits do we want to try to retain.. So whilst we are leaving there's no hurry to the exit door. Negotiating the best deal we can get is the priority and this isn't a simple binary issue. There are many variants. You can read articles by all the "senior" brexiteers, and none of them are consistent in all aspects of what we want / need post brexit. This has left the government deeply divided, as is the country as a whole.

"There are many varients"

Sorry, but around 18 months of phone ins, several live head to head debates on tv, question time, parliamentary debates, countless new paper articles, on line discussions, a 9 million pound pamphlet that was sent to every every household in the land. Several 5 minute tv referendum broadcasts on all major tv channels.The pros and cons were done to death. The electorate was informed. And made it's decision.

I remember an interview with Tim Farron, a couple of days after the result. For the first time I heard the phrase "hard" or "soft" brexit.( I voted for neither. I voted for a clean Leave.) Farron said the electorate had voted for departure but the destination was undecided. The presenter asked him what his idea of a good "destination" would look like?

He gave his answer, stay in the single market, maintain freedom of movement, ECJ to continue to be supreme.

The presenter, Andrew Neil, laughed and said, "Your version of Leave is actually to Remain!"

Unfortunately, there is still a dwindling number of Remain voters who hold this opinon.

[Spijed]

Correct they did and still do.

However, in a binary (but no less democratic) referendum. There can be, by it's very nature, only one option that prevails.

The problem with this referendum is that it can't be reversed in five years time, unlike a general election.

We'll be left with a 52-48 split for decades, and 16 million people left unrepresented.

Remember, if the trade deals don't work out in our favour that's it for years to come!

[Lancasterclaret]

As we are hopefully reaching a consensus, slowly, and with a good deal of kicking and screaming, would you be happy for us to leave all that, but it would take quite a long time?

Though far from ideal, a much bigger transition period given the proper time for us to get our house in order?

[nil_desperandum]

(Ringo) Unless you agree that there are variants, then you clearly now favour "no deal".
i'm sure in the past I recall you saying that you favoured a deal.
By definition, if we are considering some sort of deal then we are looking at "variants".
(i.e. - which bits do we still want to opt into- the cherry-picking approach).

[RingoMcCartney]

The problem with this referendum is that it can't be reversed in five years time, unlike a general election.

We'll be left with a 52-48 split for decades, and 16 million people left unrepresented.

Remember, if the trade deals don't work out in our favour that's it for years to come!

"The problem with this referendum is that it can't be reversed" . Yes that was the basis on which everybody voted. We know it now and we knew it then. People still voted the way they did.

Following the original referendum back in 75 ( I think) millions were left "unrepresented"

That's democracy - some times your side loses.

[Lancasterclaret]

32% mate, which is a hell of a lot different from 48%, and both NI and Scotland voted differently from Eng and Wales

[CrosspoolClarets]

So we force people to integrate now? Yeah, that will work

What is the British Way of life though? its constantly changing (which isn't a bad thing)?

It does work. At least, better than it does here. Take Australia for example.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinio ... 070af06207

I agree defining British values is tricky, but far from impossible. Freedom of expression, no discrimination and freedom of choice are three important principles for example.

[RingoMcCartney]

(Ringo) Unless you agree that there are variants, then you clearly now favour "no deal".
i'm sure in the past I recall you saying that you favoured a deal.
By definition, if we are considering some sort of deal then we are looking at "variants".
(i.e. - which bits do we still want to opt into- the cherry-picking approach).

You're correct I did say that. But that was before the sheer belligerence of the EU, the regular capitulation of our government, the plotting and conniving of british MPs, MEPs,( as witnessed on channel 4s Carry on Brussels) civil servants, the UNELECTED lords and the anti democratic interference of the immoral forign billionaire Geoege Soros.

Preparing for no deal will help to focus minds. If the EU believes that any deal agreed can be slapped down by a parliament packed full of Remoaners it will embolden it to secure the worse deal imaginable.

You have to be prepared to walk. To walk and trade on the same basis that we trade with the rest of the world. Which represents 85% of GDP.


(Bit busy rest of afternoon. But will get back to you If you reply)

[Lancasterclaret]

But we have that already Crosspool

You can't force people, that just doesn't work. You look at Burnley, what % of the immigration population always wear their traditional dress, don't drink, force marriage etc etc

Its a hell of a lot less than it was when they all started arriving, especially amongst the young.

Time and tolerance will do it, but both are in very short supply with some people.

[RingoMcCartney]

32% mate, which is a hell of a lot different from 48%, and both NI and Scotland voted differently from Eng and Wales

The principle is consistent and applies to both votes.

[Lancasterclaret]

But one is clearly a landslide and one clearly isn't.

[KateR]

Why the inverted commas? Do you not think these “facts” matter or do you just not understand them?

Facts can matter but only if they are relevant facts, I have a bad back today, it's a fact, I doubt it will be relevant a month from today, however these facts are no indication that I will never get a bad back again in the next 10 years..

Quoting facts in isolation are not relevant, they are used by individuals as exampled in this thread twice since it started, in both instances his short term facts were to put Brexit in a bad light and he did not correlate his facts or substantiate them as to what would happen in the future after Brexit. Whether the day after, a year after or 10 years after, however what his "facts" did prove is that the data he quotes his facts from do go up and down and have done so long before Brexit was even a word used, therefore the "facts" are as relevant as my bad back today.

I hope the above makes sense to you

[KateR]

KateR lives in america so her concept of facts is very different to what it means here.

You are taking facts and twisting them to suit your own end! Facts are facts, it's your interpretation of the facts that matter and where you get your information regarding facts from and yes I 100% agree that interpretations surrounding facts can be very different country to country.

Indeed I do live in America and have had a home there for 21 years, however you have also missed the fact that I also have a home in the UK, was born and bred in Burnley, have lived in many different countries while retaining my homes in both the USA and the UK. For example I have been living in the UK for the last 3 years while my husband is on assignment but also travel back to the US regularly, these are facts but doesn't make me any smarter than anyone else.

I do follow politics as well as football, I do try to see the truth hidden in the facts on all sides as well as those thrust out there to blind people, rather than being blinded by isolated facts that someone quotes from an organization, I believe I am able to read and understand, as well as think for myself and try to determine if facts are relevant or not to the situation being discussed.

The so called "facts" in question are not relevant to anything other than the months they were based on, even the poster quoted the facts twice trying to blind people as to the horrors of Brexit while defeating his own logic given the time period between the useless facts, but hey knock yourself out and believe them as the bringer of doom that is Brexit.