Young soldiers pose with Tommy Robinson.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:45 pm

box_of_frogs wrote:Without trawling through the whole thread, who has been “sacked” (not that we can sack people, but I understand the use of the terminology).

One idiot with a history of ill-discipline.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:47 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Anybody who lauds Robinson as a hero for this and criticises the army for sacking the lad is just plain thick.

Or young and impressionable.
It's the same with people like Choudary. Personally I would rather him air his views and have them shot down by common sense, but then I'm not the father of a young, impressionable son of Asian heritage.
Robinson, Choudary and their like are dangerous and need to be beaten by education, not by censorship and martyrdom

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:48 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:One idiot with a history of ill-discipline.

I suspect the infantry won’t miss him.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:56 pm

Damo wrote:Or young and impressionable.
It's the same with people like Choudary. Personally I would rather him air his views and have them shot down by common sense, but then I'm not the father of a young, impressionable son of Asian heritage.
Robinson, Choudary and their like are dangerous and need to be beaten by education, not by censorship and martyrdom

I'm curious, do you think those young soldiers aren't finding out exactly why even the perception of supporting extremists like Robinson is detrimental to unit cohesion, especially if that unit happens to have Muslims in it?

There's a reason military law and civilian law are separate and different, because as nice as it would be for out Army to have all the same rights as civilians it simply wouldn't work very well. For example you can't have one person of one race using freedom of speech to declare all people of another race inferior and then trust them to fight and die for each other.

We have a volunteer army, and these soldiers volunteered to abide by different laws to the rest of us. If they violate those laws then they should expect to face consequences.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:03 pm

I bet the parents of those cadets are well pleased with Tommy for uploading this video.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:14 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'm curious, do you think those young soldiers aren't finding out exactly why even the perception of supporting extremists like Robinson is detrimental to unit cohesion, especially if that unit happens to have Muslims in it?

I would expect eventually they would yes. Would I expect them to after a few weeks training (most of it physical and little to do with hanging around with right wing snake oil salesmen, following a years of exposure to people of his ilk on various mediums) well probably not entirely.

Imploding Turtle wrote:There's a reason military law and civilian law are separate and different, because as nice as it would be for out Army to have all the same rights as civilians it simply wouldn't work very well. For example you can't have one person of one race using freedom of speech to declare all people of another race inferior and then trust them to fight and die for each other.

So what would you suggest? Ban anyone who has ever shared one of Robinson's videos, or attended a sermon at a mosque with a dodgy imam etc from joining the army?

Imploding Turtle wrote: We have a volunteer army, and these soldiers volunteered to abide by different laws to the rest of us. If they violate those laws then they should expect to face consequences.

How authoritarian of you. From a liberal like yourself, your stance surprises me.
Perhaps you are only thinking like that because the subject person in this situation has displayed right wing views

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:21 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:I think being in the same place, at the same rally or at the same meeting and having a photo of it dragged up several years later is a little different to standing next to a bloke, being filmed and photographed as you yell his name. Probably the same in your simple world but, in the real one, it's not quite as straightforward as you make out.

Except the problem is plenty of people on here have made those statements regarding simply being photographed with him. If they appear in a photograph with him they are bringing the army into disrepute because it could upset muslims, yet Corbyn has been photographed with numerous terrorist organisations and that is blindly defended by people like you (still you think it's acceptable).

Hypocrite.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:21 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:24 pm

Damo wrote:I would expect eventually they would yes. Would I expect them to after a few weeks training (most of it physical and little to do with hanging around with right wing snake oil salesmen, following a years of exposure to people of his ilk on various mediums) well probably not entirely.

Yes, they would have organically learned it but sometimes people need more help than others to come to the same level of understanding.

So what would you suggest? Ban anyone who has ever shared one of Robinson's videos, or attended a sermon at a mosque with a dodgy imam etc from joining the army?

Don't be ridiculous. If the Army, thought that then all of those lads would have been thrown out, and if i believed it then i'd be calling for it.

How authoritarian of you. From a liberal like yourself, your stance surprises me.
Perhaps you are only thinking like that because the subject person in this situation has displayed right wing views

Why does someone having a nuanced set of opinions surprise you so much that the only possible explanation you can think of for it is that it is as a result of political bias and that i'm a hypocrite? What is it about anything I've ever posted that makes you think my opinion would be any different if that was a group of young recruits posing with a Muslim hate preacher?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:30 pm

burnleymik wrote:Except the problem is plenty of people on here have made those statements regarding simply being photographed with him. If they appear in a photograph with him they are bringing the army into disrepute because it could upset muslims, yet Corbyn has been photographed with numerous terrorist organisations and that is blindly defended by people like you (still you think it's acceptable).

Hypocrite.

Do you realise that the reverse is also true? You seem to think that Corbyn being photographed with "numerous terrorist organisations" disqualifies him from a job yet you're defending these guys. If eddie's a hypocrite then how can it be that you're not?

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:33 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Do you realise that the reverse is also true? You seem to think that Corbyn being photographed with "numerous terrorist organisations" disqualifies him from a job yet you're defending these guys. If eddie's a hypocrite then how can it be that you're not?

Actually I don't. I don't accept guilt by association and haven't said that about Corbyn. I was highlighting Eddie's hypocrisy directly. He liked a post that said almost exactly that on this very forum.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:35 pm

burnleymik wrote:Except the problem is plenty of people on here have made those statements regarding simply being photographed with him. If they appear in a photograph with him they are bringing the army into disrepute because it could upset muslims, yet Corbyn has been photographed with numerous terrorist organisations and that is blindly defended by people like you (still you think it's acceptable).

Hypocrite.

I've explained to you quite clearly why I consider the two instances not to be the same, giving my reasons.
Calling me a hypocrite because you can't or won't understand is typical of your stupidity when attempting to grapple with any serious issue on this board. I think your feelings towards me are getting the better of you again.

Are you the guy who claimed to be an ex-soldier - I can't be bothered to trawl back to find out. Apologies if not, if you were, I'm a bit surprised you're a Robinson supporter.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:37 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:I've explained to you quite clearly why I consider the two instances not to be the same, giving my reasons.
Calling me a hypocrite because you can't or won't understand is typical of your stupidity when attempting to grapple with any serious issue on this board. I think your feelings towards me are getting the better of you again.
Are you the guy who claimed to be an ex-soldier - I can't be bothered to trawl back to find out. Apologies if not, if you were, I'm a bit surprised you're a Robinson supporter.

Shame you always have to take it to a personal level, but I expect no less of you by now tbh. You can't participate like a normal person, it's not possible for you.

Why am I a Robinson supporter? Again Eddie you are simply making stuff up (seems to be a pattern for you). I do think he should have the right to criticise Islam as I think a Muslim should have the right to criticise Chritianity etc without being screamed down as a racist.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:39 pm

Out of interest Eddie, how did you handle criticism as a teacher?

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:39 pm

Says he, his response being to call me a "hypocrite".................

So let's hear you condemn Robinson's views then. Come on, let's be 'avin' yer !

I never got any criticism, bud, as you can imagine, I was the best !

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:41 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:
Says he, his response being to call me a "hypocrite".................

Highlighting Hypocrisy is the same as "simple" "stupid" etc?

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:41 pm

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:42 pm

What are you struggling with?

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:45 pm

"Highlighting Hypocrisy is the same as "simple" "stupid" etc? " doesn't actually make sense.

No change there, eh ?

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:58 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:"Highlighting Hypocrisy is the same as "simple" "stupid" etc? " doesn't actually make sense.

No change there, eh ?

Is there any point explaining? I doubt it.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:02 pm

Is there any point to your comment is the more apt question.
But no, don't bother trying to formulate your ideas, I hate racists of all political persuasion so I don't think you're going to convert me to your way of thinking.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:03 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Is there any point to your comment is the more apt question.
But no, don't bother trying to formulate your ideas, I hate racists of all political persuasion so I don't think you're going to convert me to your way of thinking.

Okay I'll take the bait. Show me why I am racist, or retract your lies.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:05 pm

burnleymik wrote:It isn't. The media will criticise when a Muslim has broken the law, like anyone else, but what they won't do is criticise the problems with the ideology. Such as FGM, interpretations of how women should be treated, treatment of homosexuality, problems with madrasa teaching and methods, the demand for their sharia etc.

Criticising an individual Muslim and criticising the ideology are quite different things, especially when it's clear they do not all interpret things the same way.

I’m off out soon, but how long do you think it would take me to find something in the media (Daily Mail, Express, even the Guardian) that is critical of FGM or the treatment of homosexuals in, say, Saudi Arabia?

If I did find a couple of articles like that, would you admit you’ve been wrong all along, or would you just move the goalposts?

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:07 pm

You support Robinson, bm, you're a racist. Which bit don't you get ? Or did I miss the bit where you condemned Robinson as a cynical, racist chancer ?
I've seen lots of your usual "whataboutery" but no outright condemnation.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:10 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:You support Robinson, you're a racist. Which bit don't you get ? Or did I miss the bit where you condemned Robinson as a cynical, racist chancer ?

you realise you prove my point again??

Trying to make other people out as racist by any association, but defending Corbyn. Fantastic.

If that is the best you have....

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:10 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:Did you see this on the news anywhere or any mainstream sites - no didnt think so.

I suspect that's because the "evidence" amounted to a picture of a couple of coppers pointing, whilst stood next to a muslim.

A bit like the alleged white power signs that happen to look like the "ok" gesture, if you want an example from the other side of the political divide.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:16 pm

burnleymik wrote: you realise you prove my point again??

Trying to make other people out as racist by any association, but defending Corbyn. Fantastic.

If that is the best you have....

Sorry your "lol" key has gone into Ringo-style meltdown.............
As I said, I hate racists of all political persuasions. Are you still so stupid you can't even read the clearest of statements ?
Are you ready to condemn Robinson or not ? Just asking, seeing as you brought the topic of hypocrisy up.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:19 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Sorry your "lol" key has gone into Ringo-style meltdown.............
As I said, I hate racists of all political persuasions. Are you still so stupid you can't even read the clearest of statements ?
Are you ready to condemn Robinson or not ? Just asking, seeing as you brought the topic of hypocrisy up.

I have already responded, see above. Happy to see the self-proclaimed smartest man on the board trying to deflect away from his own hypocrisy.

Your only problem with the above is that you label anyone you don't like as a racist. See your meltdown thread...

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:28 pm

Eh ?
No deflection necessary. I pointed out what I see as differences between the Robinson and Corbyn fiascos but I'm happy to point out that I hate racism.
I hate people who are racists. I don't hate you because you disagree with me, your futile bullshit makes me laugh, I hate you because you're a Robinson supporter that hasn't quite got the balls to admit it. The worst kind of hypocrite.
You clearly can't bring yourself to condemn Robinson - clearly a step too far for you. Fair enough but please don't pretend that your shitty standards apply to everyone.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:32 pm

burnleymik wrote:See your meltdown thread...

Which one!?

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:33 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Eh ?
No deflection necessary. I pointed out what I see as differences between the Robinson and Corbyn fiascos but I'm happy to point out that I hate racism.
I hate people who are racists. I don't hate you because you disagree with me, your futile bullshit makes me laugh, I hate you because you're a Robinson supporter that hasn't quite got the balls to admit it. The worst kind of hypocrite.
You clearly can't bring yourself to condemn Robinson - clearly a step too far for you. Fair enough but please don't pretend that your shitty standards apply to everyone.

Okay Eddie, so by your own logic you are also a racist. You have defended Corbyn who is the leader of the anti-semetic, racist Labour party.

Evensteadieracistreddie

Ironically your pathetic retorts and insults make me laugh, as does your incredible hypocrisy and the fact you can't even see it.

Also, I don't care enough to hate you, unlike your bitter self.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:39 pm

"Evensteadieracistreddie" .................oh dear, oh dear - take another look.

I'm happy to condemn Corbyn if he's racist. Who wouldn't ? Just as I'll condemn Robinson. Who wouldn't ?

Oh, you for one....

Considering you "don't care enough", your post comes across as being a wee bit hysterical, kid.

Bitterness ? About what or whom ? If you're scatter-gunning any old claims around, please make an effort to give the rest of us a clue what the chuff you're talking about.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:43 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:I'm happy to condemn Corbyn if he's racist. Who wouldn't ? Just as I'll condemn Robinson. Who wouldn't ?

He is the leader of racists in his party and by you defending him, you are therefore defending racism. That is how you create your labels right? By someone who defends something someone said or did?

Considering you "don't care enough", your post comes across as being a wee bit hysterical, kid.

I don't care enough to hate you, like you hate me, I see you are just a bitter old bloke, as do many many others.

Finally, FWIW, show me a quote of Robinson's that is directly racist and I will condemn it no problem..

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:47 pm

Have a go at re-reading my post 282 where I condemn - not defend - Corbyn and point out that for all your bluster, you cannot bring yourself to condemn Robinson.
As I asked - ever so politely - what bitterness are you referring to ?

https://resistinghate.org/tommy-robinso ... te-tweets/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - knock yourself out, kid.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:52 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Have a go at re-reading my post 282 where I condemn - not defend - Corbyn and point out that for all your bluster, you cannot bring yourself to condemn Robinson.
As I asked - ever so politely - what bitterness are you referring to ?

I condemn Robinson for anything he has said or done that is racist, that is unacceptable, but I believe he should be feel to criticise any religious ideology, as should anyone in the UK.

Post #282 - you didn't condemn anything... At least be honest. Ironically it doesn;t matter because, once again, by your own logic, if you defend any form of racism, which Corbyn does, you are automatically a racist.

You must be a racist by your own definition. I wouldn't say you are, but I don't apply the same nonsense and judgement as you do.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:55 pm

burnleymik wrote: I do think he should have the right to criticise Islam as I think a Muslim should have the right to criticise Chritianity etc without being screamed down as a racist.

Maybe he is being screamed down as a racist because he is a fin racist.

Can't believe that you are trying to put that piece of sh-it in the same category as Corbyn.
Anybody who knows anything about Corbyn`s history knows he is not a racist. He deserves criticism for the way that the Labour Party have dealt with the anti-semitism stuff but this was a very complex issue where the main thing the Labour Party have got wrong is how long they have taken to investigate this in the party and take action.

To say TR has the right to "criticise Islam" is in the same category as giving Nick Griffin a platform to spout his vile bullish-it. Freedom of speech is not the same as being able to come out with anything IMHO. If you have abused that right in the past like TR has then you don't deserve the airtime to keep coming out with it. And where the Asian community clearly have something to answer for like in relation to the grooming scandals it does not need the likes of TR weighing in with his doc martins.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:55 pm

http://newsthump.com/2018/08/22/tommy-r ... edophiles/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:00 pm

"I'm happy to condemn Corbyn if he's racist". How is that not condemning the bloke. If he's racist in any form , I despise that.
But, as you argue regarding Robinson, he has the right to say and do as he pleases even if we don't like it....

"You must be a racist by your own definition."

Are you deliberately being stupid or have you some form of illness ?

Anyway, this is getting boring - most folk seem to agree that Robinson has used these idiots to further his agenda. Some are OK with that, others aren't.

Having trouble with the link to "Tommy's" tweets ?

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:11 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:"I'm happy to condemn Corbyn if he's racist". How is that not condemning the bloke. If he's racist in any form , I despise that.
But, as you argue regarding Robinson, he has the right to say and do as he pleases even if we don't like it....

"You must be a racist by your own definition."

Are you deliberately being stupid or have you some form of illness ?

Anyway, this is getting boring - most folk seem to agree that Robinson has used these idiots to further his agenda. Some are OK with that, others aren't.

"if he is racist" - i.e. you don't accept he is or that he supports it... Being very disingenuous there.

You are exactly racist by your own definition and I have explained why, if you don't want to accept that, then so be it, but it is still true.

I agree it's getting boring, but also I have no problem pointing out your hypocrisy and spelling it out to you if that is what it takes.

I think Corbyn should be able to say and do what he likes, within the law, that is the price of freedom of speech, even if we do not like or do not agree with it. Not sure how you do not understand the difference between me pointing out your double standards and somehow you trying to apply them to me.

It's clear you cannot see beyond the end of your nose when it comes to opposing viewpoints and look how quickly you resorted to throwing the labels and insults around. I am amazed that someone who was supposedly a teacher has such a lack of empathy towards other viewpoints.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:13 pm

Good grief.

Make. It. Stop.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:15 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:Good grief.

Make. It. Stop.

No. Too. Much. Fun.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:17 pm

Still not condemning those tweets, then ?

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:17 pm

You should get a room. Where you can repeat the same stuff to each other until your heart's content.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:18 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:You should get a room. Where you can repeat the same stuff to each other until your heart's content.

Wouldn't be any fun exposing a hypocrite to only himself would it?

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:19 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Still not condemning those tweets, then ?

Absolutely, like I said, anything he has said that is racist, I completely condemn.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:20 pm

burnleymik wrote:Wouldn't be any fun exposing a hypocrite to only himself would it?

I see. Someone trying to win the internet. Oh dear.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:20 pm

No need.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:20 pm

You ready to actually condemn Corbyn yet?

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:21 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:I see. Someone trying to win the internet. Oh dear.

No, that is impossible, especially with eddie. You mustn't have seen the other threads?

You realise this is a discussion board don't you?

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:21 pm

Condemn Corbyn ? For the fifth time ? Yeah, why not ?