More post brexit referendum good news!!!!

[RingoMcCartney]

The stats are clear, but don’t necessarily give you the answer you want. There was no clear majority for either leave or remain in Burnley amongst those eligible to vote. So assuming you are including those that didn’t vote in your definition of ‘Burnleyite’ then the answer is that it is impossible to tell!

Are you being serious Martin? Are you actually typing that with a straight face!?

"There was no clear majority for either leave or remain in Burnley amongst those eligible to vote."

The referendum result in Burnley, was 66.6% Leave. 33.4% Remain. How the he'll is that not clear majority!!!!!!!?

Are you some kind of wind up merchant? Please don't tell me you're one of those utterly deluded Remoaners that try and kid themselves that if people didn't vote they can be counted as remain voters by default!?

Uphisownhole attempted the very same ploy and was treat with the contempt he deserved. Please don't lower yourself to his standards. Then again you previously claimed to have evidence of from an event that was yet to happen didn't you Martin! You claimed I only had an opinion or a feeling about the same future event. Whereas you had evidence of that event even though I tried to point out that you couldn't possibly have evidence as it wasnt likely to happen for around 2 years at the earliest.

The more I think about it, its not as implausible as I first thought. Yes. Burnley voted 66.6% Leave and 33.4% Remain and the guy that claimed to have evidence from a future event also now claims that, "There was no clear majority for either leave or remain in Burnley amongst those eligible to vote."

Well you've given me laugh before bed! Fair play to yeah Martin!

[Paul Waine]

Seeing as they've left the country I don't see why they get a vote in a GE.
Fully agree that they didn't get a vote in the referendum and as for the comment further up about their health care etc, they made their bed moving abroad, let them deal with it.

Anyone would moved abroad, whether living elsewhere in EU or moved to any of the many non-EU countries was entitled to vote in the referendum, as in GE's, if they registered to vote - and it was less than 15 years since they'd moved abroad.

Greenmile's link to BBC reporting on the "expats who weren't allowed to vote" case is about people who had left the UK more than 15 years previously.

[RingoMcCartney]

P. KERR 29 March 1939,
" it now seems clear that Hitler is in effect a fanatical gangster who will stop at nothing to beat down all possibility of resistance anywhere to his will".
Kerr was quite correct in assessing that Hitler and his country's view that their perception of unjust persecution since WW1 would lead to the mass destruction of another global conflict and attempted, rightly , to avoid that. When it became apparent what Hitler was about to unleash, under the banner of "national sovereignty", he was as committed as anyone to the war effort and as US ambassador to his death, was instrumental in getting the Yanks on board.
Sounds like a bloke of wisdom and integrity to me.

Even on the eve of the Battle of Britain in 1940, he was urging Winston Churchill’s Government to reach a peace deal with Hitler’s regime.

One man's bloke of wisdom and integrity, is another man's white flag waving surrender monkey then eh Eddie?

His addiction to federalism is shared by the EU today hence the special place give to his chilling utterance. The destruction of national sovereignty is the ideological driving force behind the Brussels oligarchs as they plot to build their federal superstate. You only have to watch the near hysterical Guy Verhofstadt during one of his fraggle-like anti sovereignty rants, to see the ghost of Kerr is alive and well.

[Paul Waine]

Your comment re health care seems awfully callous to me - they couldn’t be expected to foresee losing the rights they used to have (as EU citizens) when they moved.

The NHS is very clear - if you don't live in the UK you don't qualify for NHS health care. If you move to live in another country, in most situations, you will qualify to use their health care system in accordance with their rules about residents. In most countries this means you will either need health insurance or will be required to make co-payments towards the cost of your care.

EHIC only covers UK citizens/residents who visit another EU country (plus EEA and Switzerland) and aren't resident in that other country. EHIC cover requires UK visitors to pay towards their health care under the same terms as people who live in that other country - the NHS picks up the balance of costs only (not all the costs).

So, it sounds as though if you moved away from the UK you've already made your decision re health care, you are not covered by NHS and not eligible for (UK) EHIC. Nothing changed with the referendum, whether the vote was for "remain" or "leave."

[Damo]

There are some nut jobs on here who complain that the elderly got a vote because they might die before the full impact of Brexit is known.
Ex pats and foreign nationals are right down on my list of people who need their rights defending

[martin_p]

Are you being serious Martin? Are you actually typing that with a straight face!?

"There was no clear majority for either leave or remain in Burnley amongst those eligible to vote."

The referendum result in Burnley, was 66.6% Leave. 33.4% Remain. How the he'll is that not clear majority!!!!!!!?

Are you some kind of wind up merchant? Please don't tell me you're one of those utterly deluded Remoaners that try and kid themselves that if people didn't vote they can be counted as remain voters by default!?

Uphisownhole attempted the very same ploy and was treat with the contempt he deserved. Please don't lower yourself to his standards. Then again you previously claimed to have evidence of from an event that was yet to happen didn't you Martin! You claimed I only had an opinion or a feeling about the same future event. Whereas you had evidence of that event even though I tried to point out that you couldn't possibly have evidence as it wasnt likely to happen for around 2 years at the earliest.

The more I think about it, its not as implausible as I first thought. Yes. Burnley voted 66.6% Leave and 33.4% Remain and the guy that claimed to have evidence from a future event also now claims that, "There was no clear majority for either leave or remain in Burnley amongst those eligible to vote."

Well you've given me laugh before bed! Fair play to yeah Martin!

Now now Ringo, don’t get wound up by the facts. You asked whether the majority of ‘Burnleyites’ would agree with you in Brexit. The answer is no, but more would agree with you than would shout you down but with a fair number not being that arsed.

[Lancasterclaret]

Remainer says - "its a bit unfair for the old to effect the young and the middle aged in this way to be honest, I wish they'd think of the future occassionally"

Brexiteer response "CRAZED REMOANERS DEMAND CULL OF OLD PEOPLE TO PROTECT THE LIBERAL ELITE"

[nil_desperandum]

EHIC only covers UK citizens/residents who visit another EU country (plus EEA and Switzerland) and aren't resident in that other country. EHIC cover requires UK visitors to pay towards their health care under the same terms as people who live in that other country - the NHS picks up the balance of costs only (not all the costs).

So, it sounds as though if you moved away from the UK you've already made your decision re health care, you are not covered by NHS and not eligible for (UK) EHIC. Nothing changed with the referendum, whether the vote was for "remain" or "leave."

Hi Paul,
I think you need to fact-check that.
Ex-pats are currently covered by EHIC, and as recently as September David Davis claimed that this would continue after brexit, but those - like myself - with a serious interest in this, fear that this promise cannot be kept in a "hard brexit" scenario.
"The two sides have agreed that EU residents living in the UK and Brits living in Europe on the day Britain leaves the bloc on March 29, 2019 will continue to enjoy free healthcare.
They will continue to be able to use the European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) across EU’s 27 remaining member states – not just the country they’re living in.
Mr Davis said the agreement was “good news for British pensioners”.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4363792/b ... -confirms/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dsr]

Remainer says - "its a bit unfair for the old to effect the young and the middle aged in this way to be honest, I wish they'd think of the future occassionally"

This is one of the genuine reasons why Remainers and Brexiteers don't understand each other - or at least, why Remainers can't understand Brexiteers. To many Remainers, it's as obvious to say that Remain is best for Britain as it is to say that the sun will rise in the east. They have literally no concept that other people can rationally and intelligently disagree. Hence, they assume that anyone who voted Brexit cares nothing, or less than nothing, for their own children and grandchildren; they assume they're just after a selfish retirement and do not care what happens to their families.

That doesn't fit with any description of most of the old people I know. Old people who voted Brexit did so because (like it or lump it) they thought it was the best decision for themselves and their families.

[Lancasterclaret]

Why is putting even more pressure on the finances of them and their families better dsr?

You can't eat blue passports, you can't use sovereignty to solve the housing crisis, you can't use a flag to save the NHS.

You need money to do all that, and Brexit costs everyone in that respect.

No one is arguing about that now. No one.

[RingoMcCartney]

Now now Ringo, don’t get wound up by the facts. You asked whether the majority of ‘Burnleyites’ would agree with you in Brexit. The answer is no, but more would agree with you than would shout you down but with a fair number not being that arsed.

On what do you base this opionion Martin?

[Paul Waine]

Hi Paul,
I think you need to fact-check that.
Ex-pats are currently covered by EHIC, and as recently as September David Davis claimed that this would continue after brexit, but those - like myself - with a serious interest in this, fear that this promise cannot be kept in a "hard brexit" scenario.
"The two sides have agreed that EU residents living in the UK and Brits living in Europe on the day Britain leaves the bloc on March 29, 2019 will continue to enjoy free healthcare.
They will continue to be able to use the European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) across EU’s 27 remaining member states – not just the country they’re living in.
Mr Davis said the agreement was “good news for British pensioners”.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4363792/b ... -confirms/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My source is NHS England

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcare ... ction.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ensure you plan ahead

Moving to another country can be an overwhelming experience. Travel arrangements, accommodation and visa or work permits are obvious things to consider when preparing to move, but what about planning for your healthcare?
If you are moving abroad on a permanent basis, you will no longer automatically be entitled to medical treatment under normal NHS rules. This is because the NHS is a residence-based healthcare system. You'll have to notify your GP so that you and your family can be removed from the NHS register.
Most people will no longer be entitled to use their UK-issued European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) to access healthcare in Europe, however there are a few exceptions. Read our EHIC guide for more detailed information.

Make sure you budget for any additional healthcare costs you may face, including health insurance.
Before leaving for your new destination, it is important to check what health services are available to you in that country. Healthcare systems vary from country to country and might not include services you would expect to get free of charge under the NHS.
In most cases you will have to register with the relevant authorities abroad. Once you are registered to work and make national insurance contributions, you'll be entitled to state-run healthcare on the same basis as a resident of that country. However, many countries still expect you to make patient contributions or to join the national health insurance scheme. 
Look up the country-by-country guide on this site and find out what rules apply in your chosen country. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) also provides useful information for British nationals living abroad on GOV.UK, including information on entry and residence requirements, health, benefits and finance.

If you live in Europe
If you live in another EEA country or Switzerland, you will be entitled to a UK-issued EHIC if one of the following applies to you: 
you receive a UK State Pension or exportable UK benefit and have a UK-issued S1 form (certificate of entitlement) registered in your country of residence
you are a worker posted to work in another EEA country or Switzerland by your UK employer, or a frontier worker living in the EEA and working in the UK
you are a family member of a posted worker or of someone working in the UK and you are not covered in your own right by the EEA country you reside in
you are a student going to another EEA country or Switzerland to study

So, yes, David Davis is right - British pensioners resident in other EU countries qualify for UK EHIC cover. If you've retired early and haven't reached UK pension age it appears that you don't qualify for UK EHIC cover.

However, The Sun appears to be overstating the case by saying that all British expats will be covered by UK EHIC.

[dsr]

Why is putting even more pressure on the finances of them and their families better dsr?

You can't eat blue passports, you can't use sovereignty to solve the housing crisis, you can't use a flag to save the NHS.

You need money to do all that, and Brexit costs everyone in that respect.

No one is arguing about that now. No one.

EXACTLY - you have nailed my point exactly. Thanks.

[Sidney1st]

Why is putting even more pressure on the finances of them and their families better dsr?

You can't eat blue passports, you can't use sovereignty to solve the housing crisis, you can't use a flag to save the NHS.

You need money to do all that, and Brexit costs everyone in that respect.

No one is arguing about that now. No one.

Ah yes because lots was being done to fix the NHS and solve the housing crisis prior to brexit wasn't it?

Yes Brexit will cost money, but the cost of living has always been rising for as long as I can remember.

[martin_p]

On what do you base this opionion Martin?

The fact that less than half the people eligible to vote in Burnley voted leave. That’s fact, not opinion.

[nil_desperandum]

Very interesting Paul. There's obviously quite a bit of misunderstanding / misinformation here.
I don't think that the small minority of ex-pats who are apparently not currently covered by EHIC are generally aware that they aren't covered.
I think I'll double check on EU and Brit Gov websites.
It doesn't apply to me anyway, as I'm not an ex-pat. (I spend less than 6 months in France, in fact usually only about 3 months, and am therefore currently covered, and will continue to be, unless EHIC arrangements are cancelled).

[RingoMcCartney]

But that's nothing like the question you originally asked me!
In answer to this question however, I would guess that answer is that they wouldn't necessarily agree with either of us. The majority would most likely be more down the middle. (i.e they would be "soft leavers").
I am not however disputing the Burnley voting figures that suggest a significant leave majority in Burnley, and I don't think you'll find that I've done this on this thread. I just don't think that they are as fanatical as you. (Not that I am suggesting that your passion for Brexit is insincere).

You knew the point I was genuinely trying to make which was despite you being one of the vociferous Remoaners on here. You're opinion is a minority opionion in Burnley and the opinion that lost the referendum. I had to switch my analogy simply cos you went on a ridiculous deflecting mission, of talking about who you could turn to, where you sat, how long you'd had a season ticket and where certain people lived! You and i knew exactly the point I was trying to make. You were being silly. I had to change my question!

"I would guess that answer is that they wouldn't necessarily agree with either of us."

This is truly beyond parody! Yet another Remoaner that apparently believes that despite a 66.6% / 33.4% split in favour of Leave. If you walked down a street in Burnley the majority, who had an opinion, wouldn't say that Leaving the EU was the right thing to do. Which is my view. The opposite of your view.
There really hasn't been a massive shift in people's opinions that would your give your "down the middle" view. Itd be more likely, "I voted to leave and it's about time we got on with it and left." Because it's me (admit it) you simply cannot bring yourself to agreeing with me.

[martin_p]

You knew the point I was genuinely trying to make which was despite you being one of the vociferous Remoaners on here. You're opinion is a minority opionion in Burnley and the opinion that lost the referendum. I had to switch my analogy simply cos you went on a ridiculous deflecting mission, of talking about who you could turn to, where you sat, how long you'd had a season ticket and where certain people lived! You and i knew exactly the point I was trying to make. You were being silly. I had to change my question!

"I would guess that answer is that they wouldn't necessarily agree with either of us."

This is truly beyond parody! Yet another Remoaner that apparently believes that despite a 66.6% / 33.4% split in favour of Leave. If you walked down a street in Burnley the majority, who had an opinion, wouldn't say that Leaving the EU was the right thing to do. Which is my view. The opposite of your view.
There really hasn't been a massive shift in people's opinions that would your give your "down the middle" view. Itd be more likely, "I voted to leave and it's about time we got on with it and left." Because it's me (admit it) you simply cannot bring yourself to agreeing with me.

So beyond parody that you’ve had to change your question to make it true! No longer are we asking ‘Burnleyites’, we’re asking those who ‘had an opinion’.

[RingoMcCartney]

The fact that less than half the people eligible to vote in Burnley voted leave. That’s fact, not opinion.

And if we assume that the ones who didn't vote, despite being eligible, didn't have an opinion. What does that leave Martin?

It leaves the ones that did have an opinion. And they expressed that opinion through the ballot box. The majority voted Leave.

Consequently the majority of Burnleyites agree with me. Not you.

[martin_p]

And if we assume that the ones who didn't vote, despite being eligible, didn't have an opinion. What does that leave Martin?

It leaves the ones that did have an opinion. And they expressed that opinion through the ballot box. The majority voted Leave.

Consequently the majority of Burnleyites agree with me. Not you.

Wow, your logic is astounding. And you’ve effectively made the people of Burnley who didn’t vote non-people by telling them their not ‘Burnleyites’. Not the sort of behaviour I’d expect from a man of the people like you Ringo.

[RingoMcCartney]

So beyond parody that you’ve had to change your question to make it true! No longer are we asking ‘Burnleyites’, we’re asking those who ‘had an opinion’.

We're now entering classic Remoaner territory now.

"People who didn't vote, really wanted to Remain but just couldn't be bothered"!

[Damo]

This is one of the genuine reasons why Remainers and Brexiteers don't understand each other - or at least, why Remainers can't understand Brexiteers. To many Remainers, it's as obvious to say that Remain is best for Britain as it is to say that the sun will rise in the east. They have literally no concept that other people can rationally and intelligently disagree. Hence, they assume that anyone who voted Brexit cares nothing, or less than nothing, for their own children and grandchildren; they assume they're just after a selfish retirement and do not care what happens to their families.

That doesn't fit with any description of most of the old people I know. Old people who voted Brexit did so because (like it or lump it) they thought it was the best decision for themselves and their families.

I know people who voted remain, who can see certain benefits of leaving the EU. Just like us Brexiteers know there will be some pit falls with leave.
I think sometimes perceptions of remainers are skewed by certain posters on here

[martin_p]

We're now entering classic Remoaner territory now.

"People who didn't vote, really wanted to Remain but just couldn't be bothered"!

And a classic Ringo tactic of putting words in my mouth. Especially when I’ve said further up the page that a lot couldn’t be arsed either way.

[martin_p]

Will those who didn’t vote in the referendum please leave Burnley, Ringo doesn’t think you’re worthy of being ‘Burnleyites’.

[RingoMcCartney]

Wow, your logic is astounding. And you’ve effectively made the people of Burnley who didn’t vote non-people by telling them their not ‘Burnleyites’. Not the sort of behaviour I’d expect from a man of the people like you Ringo.

In what way have I made somebody who chose not to vote, presumably cos they didn't have an opinion either way, "non-people"!

And by not voting ( I'm actually laughing as I type this Martin!) how do they become not "Burnleyites"

Quite bizarre! Time for bobo's for you Martin I think!

[Lancasterclaret]

I know people who voted remain, who can see certain benefits of leaving the EU

I can as well

No more European elections, no more MEPs

But I'm struggling after that, even with my favourite colour being blue.

[martin_p]

In what way have I made somebody who chose not to vote, presumably cos they didn't have an opinion either way, "non-people"!

And by not voting ( I'm actually laughing as I type this Martin!) how do they become not "Burnleyites"

Quite bizarre! Time for bobo's for you Martin I think!

Because you’re only using the people who voted to support your statement that the majority of Burnleyites voted for Brexit. QED those who didn’t vote can’t be Burnleyites. If they are then less than half of Burnleyites voted for Brexit which isn’t a majority. Come on Ringo it’s not that hard. Here’s the figures to help you, Burnley electorate (or Burnleyites) - 64,461, Leave voters - 28,854 I.e. less than half and not a majority of Burnleyites. Come on Ringo, admit you’re wrong, it doesn’t hurt honest!

[RingoMcCartney]

Will those who didn’t vote in the referendum please leave Burnley, Ringo doesn’t think you’re worthy of being ‘Burnleyites’.

The weird Lengths that some Remoaners will go to, simply to avoid agreeing that the majority of the people in Burnley would agree with me! Congratulations Martin, you've had some tough competition on here today, but, your "non-people" and "Burnley worthiness" babble, you've propelled the levels of ridiculous, common sense avoidance, to truly stratospheric highs! Fantastic effort pal!

[martin_p]

The weird Lengths that some Remoaners will go to, simply to avoid agreeing that the majority of the people in Burnley would agree with me! Congratulations Martin, you've had some tough competition on here today, but, your "non-people" and "Burnley worthiness" babble, you've propelled the levels of ridiculous, common sense avoidance, to truly stratospheric highs! Fantastic effort pal!

While you continue to ignore actual facts. You’re either deliberately refusing to acknowledge facts or don’t understand what the word majority means.

[aggi]

I'm really enjoying Ringo rewriting his question multiple times to make up for the answer not being what he wants.

To save time you need to limit the sample to people living in Burnley who voted in the Brexit referendum.

[RingoMcCartney]

Because you’re only using the people who voted to support your statement that the majority of Burnleyites voted for Brexit. QED those who didn’t vote can’t be Burnleyites. If they are then less than half of Burnleyites voted for Brexit which isn’t a majority. Come on Ringo it’s not that hard. Here’s the figures to help you, Burnley electorate (or Burnleyites) - 64,461, Leave voters - 28,854 I.e. less than half and not a majority of Burnleyites. Come on Ringo, admit you’re wrong, it doesn’t hurt honest!

Can somebody get me a pint of whatever Martins sneaking in his hot chocolate please!

[martin_p]

Can somebody get me a pint of whatever Martins sneaking in his hot chocolate please!

Or alternatively you could give me the stats that show the majority of the electorate in Burnley support Brexit. Good luck!

[RingoMcCartney]

Or alternatively you could give me the stats that show the majority of the electorate in Burnley support Brexit. Good luck!

Tell you what. Seeing that you have all the stats. Apparently. When it comes to EU membership, what do the majority off the electorate in Burnley support? Over to you.

[martin_p]

For his next trick Ringo convinces the Premier League that Burnley have won the majority of their matches this season because they’ve won 9 and only lost 8 of 24 matches catapulting us into the Champions League places!

[RingoMcCartney]

For his next trick Ringo convinces the Premier League that Burnley have won the majority of their matches this season because they’ve won 9 and only lost 8 of 24 matches capitulating us into the Champions League places!

Tell you what. Seeing that you have all the stats. Apparently. When it comes to EU membership, what do the majority off the electorate in Burnley support? Over to you.

[martin_p]

Tell you what. Seeing that you have all the stats. Apparently. What do the majority off the electorate in Burnley support? Over to you.

There is no majority view. More support leave than remain and a lot don’t care or know but there is no majority for any single view. You don’t know what majority means do you?

[RingoMcCartney]

There is no majority view. More support leave than remain and a lot don’t care but there is no majority for any single view.

Now think about this. We often here from Remoaners that the 52 / 48 split was a small MAJORITY. It was "small" but it was, even by their own begrudging admission, a "MAJORITY"

But when it comes to little old Burnley, Martin claims that the 66.6 / 33.4 to Leave is not good enough! And "There is no MAJORITY view!



I don't care what anybody else thinks about you Martin I think, when it comes to comedy, you're brilliant!!



Comedy gold fella!

[martin_p]

Now think about this. We often here from Remoaners that the 52 / 48 split was a small MAJORITY. It was "small" but it was, even by their own begrudging admission, a "MAJORITY"

But when it comes to little old Burnley, Martin claims that the 66.6 / 33.4 to Leave is not good enough! And "There is no MAJORITY view!



I don't care what anybody else thinks about you Martin I think, when it comes to comedy, you're brilliant!!



Comedy gold fella!

Go on then, I’ll humour you and keep going. The result of any election only requires a majority based on those who voted not the entire electorate. So yes, within the rules of the referendum leave had a majority. The statement ‘the majority of Burnleyites agree with me’ requires a majority amongst Burnleyites, which as demonstrated isn’t the case. Do you see?

[RingoMcCartney]

Go on then, I’ll humour you and keep going. The result of any election only requires a majority based on those who voted not the entire electorate. So yes, within the rules of the referendum leave had a majority in the referendum. The statement ‘the majority of Burnleyites agree with me’ requires a majority amongst Burnleyites, which as demonstrated isn’t the case.

I'm off to bed now Martin. You've really helped to top my day on a high you genuinely have! But promise me something won't you. Your inability to grasp the basic concept of the majority of people living in a town have a certain opinion. Means itd be a disastrous career move for you, applying for a job with Yougov, MORI or the Electoral Commission!

The Comedy store is more your line buddy!

Cheers Martin.

[martin_p]

I'm off to bed now Martin. You've really helped to top my day on a high you genuinely have! But promise me something won't you. Your inability to grasp the basic concept of the majority of people living in a town have a certain opinion. Means itd be a disastrous career move for you, applying for a job with Yougov, MORI or the Electoral Commission!

The Comedy store is more your line buddy!

Cheers Martin.

Believe me, they’d be happier with my grasp of statistics than yours. Task for you in the morning, look up the word ‘majority’.

[Greenmile]

On what do you base this opionion Martin?

Eviden...- oh, never mind

[Caballo]

majority of people living in a town have a certain opinion.

Unless 28854 is more than 35604 then I'm afraid that's a claim you can't substantiate Ringo.

[Lancasterclaret]

Fact based discussions are most definitely not his strong point.

[randomclaret2]

The only fact that matters is that "Leave "won.

[UpTheBeehole]

Jesus Christ, Ringo is f*cking thick

[UpTheBeehole]

Ringo did you vote in the 2014, 2009, 2004 and 1999 European elections?

How about 2009, did the 8 North West MEPs reflect your views then?

What about 2004, when there were 9 NW MEPs?

I'm guessing from your demographic (angry white brexit voter) that you are old enough to have voted in the 1999 European elections, where 10 (yes, ten!) MEPs were sent by the North West voters to the EU.

[quoonbeatz]

Just explain to me why you believe im being "a massive hypocrite".

My accepting that in a democracy, there are some things I can change and there are some things I can't. Shows an unusual form of twisted logic on your part, but that's nothing new either is it!

@ twisted logic. its just straight up common sense, ringo, nothing twisted on my part; thats your speciality.

i'll put it another way to help you understand; would you rather have the current government of the tories propped up by the dup or a labour government led by corbyn?

[quoonbeatz]

Perhaps you two could exchange phone numbers and give us all a break !

thought this was aimed at me but i've always had ringo's number so it can't be.

[nil_desperandum]

You knew the point I was genuinely trying to make which was despite you being one of the vociferous Remoaners on here. You're opinion is a minority opionion in Burnley and the opinion that lost the referendum. I had to switch my analogy simply cos you went on a ridiculous deflecting mission, of talking about who you could turn to, where you sat, how long you'd had a season ticket and where certain people lived! You and i knew exactly the point I was trying to make. You were being silly. I had to change my question!

"I would guess that answer is that they wouldn't necessarily agree with either of us."

This is truly beyond parody! Yet another Remoaner that apparently believes that despite a 66.6% / 33.4% split in favour of Leave. If you walked down a street in Burnley the majority, who had an opinion, wouldn't say that Leaving the EU was the right thing to do. Which is my view. The opposite of your view.
There really hasn't been a massive shift in people's opinions that would your give your "down the middle" view. Itd be more likely, "I voted to leave and it's about time we got on with it and left." Because it's me (admit it) you simply cannot bring yourself to agreeing with me.

I'm really not sure why you have tried to turn this into some kind of personal confrontation.
In the midst of what was a civil debate, you said, (at the end of a post), that if I asked those sat around me at the next home game, they would agree with you.
Given that you have no idea where I sit, or who my friends are, it's a claim that you simply cannot substantiate. I know who sits round me, and I know what their views are, and they don't correspond with yours. (They don't all correspond with mine either, since, - as you don't seem to be able to comprehend or acknowledge -, there are various positions ranging from hard brexit, to hard remain, with a large number of people somewhere in between, disinterested or still undecided.)
After numerous posts in between and several other posters chipping in, you then totally changed your question to include "Burnleyites". I would consider myself to be a "Burnleyite", but by your definition I'm not, because I don't live or vote in Burnley, (nor do a large proportion of those who attend home games).
I haven't disputed once on this thread that the majority of those who cast a vote in the referendum in the Burnley constituency voted leave by a substantial margin, but as so many others have pointed out, this is not the same statistic as saying that the majority of those who "sit near me", or "attend Turf Moor", or "live in a random street", or "Burnleyites" or who make up the entire population of Burnley voted leave.

Now, my previous answer:
"I would guess that answer is that they wouldn't necessarily agree with either of us."
Can you explain how that is a parody?
Given the voting statistics for Burnley there is evidence of a strong undercurrent of "leave" in Burnley. But given the number who: voted remain, those who didn't vote either way, (couldn't make up their minds etc), and those who voted "leave" but favour a soft brexit, it 's quite a reasonable assumption that the "majority" favour neither remaining nor a hard brexit.
Maybe I should turn the tables by asking you a question.
If there were to be a vote in Burnley tomorrow with compulsory voting for everyone 18 and over, with the option of (1) remain under current terms and conditions, or (2) walk away immediately with no deal, or option 3: Negotiate a "soft brexit deal" that's good for the local economy, preserves jobs, incomes etc. Who do you think would win?

[Lancasterclaret]

As this shitstorm rumples on, a reminder that other issues exist in this country, and we can't do anything about it because of the situation we are in

https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/post ... 1204574948" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;