More post brexit referendum good news!!!!

[RingoMcCartney]

Based on a turnout of 43,316, 14,462 Burnley residents voted to remain

On an electorate of 64,458, 28,854 Burnley residents voted to leave. (44.76% opting to change the status quo)

55.24% therefore were happy enough not to vote to Leave the EU

Or;

on an electorate of 64,458, 14,462 voted to remain. (22% opting not to change the status quo)

78% therefore we’re happy enough not to vote to remain in the EU.

You really don’t help yourself.

Benny, be careful. Your in danger of pointing out the glaring mistake that the hysterical gaggle of Remoaners are making.

That is, the deluded assumption that those who didn't vote, were secret Remain voters, and therefore can be added to their mythical number of people with an opinion that's contrary to mine! I make the assumption that those who didn't vote didn't have an opinion strong enough for them to feel obliged to go to the polling station. But no! The desparate Remoaners count them as theirs!

Any body with an ounce of common sense can see that a town that voted 66.6 Leave and 33.4% Remain will have a majority of people who agree with me.


Imagine the UTC message board Remoaners doing market research.

"Can I ask you if feel the decision to leave the EU was right?" Reply- " Yes, and I voted Leave." "Ok, that's one for ringo."


Can I ask you if feel the decision to leave the EU was right?" Reply- " Yes, and I voted Leave." "Ok, that's 2 for ringo."


"Hello can I ask you if feel the decision to leave the EU was right?" "No, I voted Remain." "Ok that's one for us Remoaners.

"Can I ask you if feel the decision to leave the EU was right?" Reply-"not bothered either way, I didn't vote" "brilliant, that's another one for us Remoaners eh lads!" "No clear majority here what so ever!":lol:

That's me done for the day. Im knocking off early today to get to Geordieland in time so I need to crack on. I'll let the UTC message board Remoaners stew in delusion.

[Lancasterclaret]

Its like the scene from Father Ted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMiKyfd6hA0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RingoMcCartney]

I'm really not sure why you have tried to turn this into some kind of personal confrontation.
In the midst of what was a civil debate, you said, (at the end of a post), that if I asked those sat around me at the next home game, they would agree with you.
Given that you have no idea where I sit, or who my friends are, it's a claim that you simply cannot substantiate. I know who sits round me, and I know what their views are, and they don't correspond with yours. (They don't all correspond with mine either, since, - as you don't seem to be able to comprehend or acknowledge -, there are various positions ranging from hard brexit, to hard remain, with a large number of people somewhere in between, disinterested or still undecided.)
After numerous posts in between and several other posters chipping in, you then totally changed your question to include "Burnleyites". I would consider myself to be a "Burnleyite", but by your definition I'm not, because I don't live or vote in Burnley, (nor do a large proportion of those who attend home games).
I haven't disputed once on this thread that the majority of those who cast a vote in the referendum in the Burnley constituency voted leave by a substantial margin, but as so many others have pointed out, this is not the same statistic as saying that the majority of those who "sit near me", or "attend Turf Moor", or "live in a random street", or "Burnleyites" or who make up the entire population of Burnley voted leave.

Now, my previous answer:
"I would guess that answer is that they wouldn't necessarily agree with either of us."
Can you explain how that is a parody?
Given the voting statistics for Burnley there is evidence of a strong undercurrent of "leave" in Burnley. But given the number who: voted remain, those who didn't vote either way, (couldn't make up their minds etc), and those who voted "leave" but favour a soft brexit, it 's quite a reasonable assumption that the "majority" favour neither remaining nor a hard brexit.
Maybe I should turn the tables by asking you a question.
If there were to be a vote in Burnley tomorrow with compulsory voting for everyone 18 and over, with the option of (1) remain under current terms and conditions, or (2) walk away immediately with no deal, or option 3: Negotiate a "soft brexit deal" that's good for the local economy, preserves jobs, incomes etc. Who do you think would win?

You're now introducing "hard" and "soft" brexit in an attempt to muddy the waters. If people want a brexit, hard or soft, they want to LEAVE. End of. They agree with me

This "strung under current" of which you speak. It's just a way of you trying to avoid saying "the majority"!

And as for the hypothetical vote tomorrow- we've had the vote. You lost. Why? The majority shared my view.

[UpTheBeehole]

Thick as mince Ringo, thick as mince.

[UpTheBeehole]

By the way Ringo, did you vote in the European elections in 2014, 2009, 2004, 1999 or 1994?

If not, why not?

That was your democratic chance to have a say in the European parliament!

[RingoMcCartney]

By the way Ringo, did you vote in the European elections in 2014, 2009, 2004, 1999 or 1994?

If not, why not?

That was your democratic chance to have a say in the European parliament!

Yes I did. And ive voted in every election since. Bet you can't wait till you're old enough can you!

Roll on puberty eh uphisownhole?!

Now try and amuse yourself for the rest of day. You can play with crayons but do not, repeat, do not get the biros out of the drawer. It took your care worker hours to get the marks off the walls!

[UpTheBeehole]

So do you understand that those elections took place across Europe?

That's where these 'unelected' foreigners you keep moaning about were.....elected!

[Lancasterclaret]

But its a meaningless election, cos they don't have any power over the UK..........oh

[nil_desperandum]

You're now introducing "hard" and "soft" brexit in an attempt to muddy the waters. If people want a brexit, hard or soft, they want to LEAVE. End of. They agree with me

This "strung under current" of which you speak. It's just a way of you trying to avoid saying "the majority"!

And as for the hypothetical vote tomorrow- we've had the vote. You lost. Why? The majority shared my view.

My final contribution this, as there are only so many times you can repeat the same point.
How is "hard" and "soft" muddying the waters?
It's the big issue that's strangling the government and country at this moment in time, and it's pertinent to this little debate. My point, as you well know, is that based on stats the most likely view of "Burnleyites" is some form of "soft brexit".
Several people have demonstrated how statistically you can't prove a "hard brexit" majority or even a leave majority in Burnley.
I happen to believe that there - most likely - is a majority for leave, but that's a different argument to proving it statistically, and there's a strong case for my broad view that the majority would favour option 3, which is not your opinion, but fairly close to mine, and the one I would vote for in light of the referendum result.
My hypothetical "vote tomorrow" question, is quite a reasonable one, given that you are so convinced that such a large percentage of the town are in total accord with your views. I didn't say that there should be another vote, I was simply asking whether you felt that most people were on the extremes of the argument or more likely happy to compromise,(which to be honest is increasingly looking like being the outcome).
I'm not going to ask the question again though as it is only likely to encourage a further response from you, and having made my point, I'm now going to withdraw from this pointless and trivial little exchange.

[RingoMcCartney]

I happen to believe that there - most likely - is a majority for leave, but that's a different argument to proving it statistically,.

Finally, you got there! You and I agree!

"My point, as you well know, is that based on stats the most likely view of "Burnleyites" is some form of "soft brexit".

Whether it's your so called "hard" or "soft" Brexit. Its LEAVE.

The majority of Burnleyites would agree with me!

Not you.

And it didn't hurt and the sky didn't actually fall on your head !!

[aggi]

Answering the first part- no matter how the ballot paper was presented. As long as EU commissioners swear an oath of allegiance to the EU not Britain. It runs contrary to what I see a democratic accountability. Back to Tony Benns 5 questions.


IN WHOSE INTERESTS DO YOU EXERCISE IT?

The EU, not Britain.


TO WHOM ARE YOU ACCOUNTABLE?

The EU not Britain.

2nd part. Your right about current funding. However proposals have been made to tax payer fund only parties that have pan European representation. And you have to assume that such parties, by their very nature, be broadly accepting of a pan European, supra national experiment that has enshrined at its heart, " ever closer union". Martin Shultz has made similar superstate noises recently.

Think about this chilling quote on a plaque on the entrance to the multi million pound EU visitors centre


"National sovereignty is the root cause of the most crying evils of our times… and of the steady march of humanity back to tragic disaster and barbarism… The only final remedy for this supreme and catastrophic evil of our time is a federal union of the peoples…’

Quoted in the European Parliament Visitor Centre. From: P. Kerr, ‘
Philip Kerr, was a British diplomat and arch-appeaser in the build up to the Second World War. Like modern Europhile zealots, he never dropped his doctrinaire outlook. Even on the eve of the Battle of Britain in 1940, he was urging Winston Churchill’s Government to reach a peace deal with Hitler’s regime.

But we're (at the moment) part of the EU and vote in the elections. If everyone in the commission was exercising their power in favour of their individual countries nothing would get done. I have no issue with that.

Have you any links to the new funding proposals?

I'd say Philip Kerr had a point given that this was on the brink of WWII, although I don't particularly agree with him in the larger sense. He was also instrumental in us winning WWII with the work he did in America. What are your views on him rather than Leo McKinstry's?

[aggi]

Finally, you got there! You and I agree!

"My point, as you well know, is that based on stats the most likely view of "Burnleyites" is some form of "soft brexit".

Whether it's your so called "hard" or "soft" Brexit. Its LEAVE.

The majority of Burnleyites would agree with me!

Not you.

And it didn't hurt and the sky didn't actually fall on your head !!

I like how we've gone through the whole process of buggering about with semantics and statistics and then Ringo has made the same mistake he made right at the start.

[nil_desperandum]

Finally, you got there! You and I agree!

"My point, as you well know, is that based on stats the most likely view of "Burnleyites" is some form of "soft brexit".

Whether it's your so called "hard" or "soft" Brexit. Its LEAVE.

The majority of Burnleyites would agree with me!

Not you.

And it didn't hurt and the sky didn't actually fall on your head !!

I think you'll find that I "agreed" with you yesterday when I wrote:

I am not however disputing the Burnley voting figures that suggest a significant leave majority in Burnley, and I don't think you'll find that I've done this on this thread.

The key word however is suggest. It can't be proven.
Anyway, I think you've done a great job in the past 24 hours in deflecting from the main issues, including the governments refusal to publish the "leaked" impact documents. Tbh, you're doing a much better job of fighting the "brexit" corner than the incompetents in government.

[RingoMcCartney]

But we're (at the moment) part of the EU and vote in the elections. If everyone in the commission was exercising their power in favour of their individual countries nothing would get done. I have no issue with that.

Have you any links to the new funding proposals?

I'd say Philip Kerr had a point given that this was on the brink of WWII, although I don't particularly agree with him in the larger sense. He was also instrumental in us winning WWII with the work he did in America. What are your views on him rather than Leo McKinstry's?

Got to be quick here.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-po ... KKBN16L259" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... dum-Brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the move for a pan-EU party of MEPs has since gained traction among some member states, with France's president, Emmanuel Macron, saying it would be a step towards deepening democracy and unity in an often fragmented bloc.

Junker has duscussed increasing funds for larger pan European parties too.

My only view on somebody who can say this

.."National sovereignty is the root cause of the most crying evils of our times… and of the steady march of humanity back to tragic disaster and barbarism… The only final remedy for this supreme and catastrophic evil of our time is a federal union of the peoples…’

Is thank God, Churchill ignored him. A man who can use the chilling term "final remedy" sounds very similar to the guy he was urging appeasement with. He used the term " final solution" didn't he.......

WW 2 - patriotic nationalism defeated tyranny.

[RingoMcCartney]

I like how we've gone through the whole process of buggering about with semantics and statistic and then Ringo has made the same mistake he made right at the start.

It wasn't me that was "buggering about with semantics and statistics"

I simply stated the blindingly obvious , given the local referendum result. Which was more people would agree with my view than the Remain view.

When a town votes a clear 2 to 1 in favour of Leave. Common sense tells you as a Leaver, you're in the majority. It really really is that straight forward. To try and suggest otherwise, I'd argue, is verging on insanity.

The way that the hysterical gaggle of Remoaners tried to twist the black and white 66.6 % and 34.4% fact. really started to look like increasingly they were on pay roll at the Kim Jong Un Market Research Company!

Truly embarrassed for them.....

[martin_p]

WW 2 - patriotic nationalism defeated tyranny.

When you're looking up the definition of 'majority' I suggest you also do some research on WWII. You've quite a lot to learn!

[Caballo]

It wasn't me that was "buggering about with semantics and statistics"

I simply stated the blindingly obvious , given the local referendum result. Which was more people would agree with my view than the Remain view.

When a town votes a clear 2 to 1 in favour of Leave. Common sense tells you as a Leaver, you're in the majority. It really really is that straight forward. To try and suggest otherwise, I'd argue, is verging on insanity.

The way that the hysterical gaggle of Remoaners tried to twist the black and white 66.6 % and 34.4% fact. really started to look like increasingly they were on pay roll at the Kim Jong Un Market Research Company!

Truly embarrassed for them.....

Ringo, I voted out and would again. However the point you were trying to argue (most people in Burnley shared your/our view) was as wrong as UTBs assertion that non-voters were remainers.

[Lancasterclaret]

When in doubt about any brexit stance, is it the default position to go on about the war?

[RingoMcCartney]

When you're looking up the definition of 'majority' I suggest you also do some research on WWII. You've quite a lot to learn!

He's back!! Martin "66.6% /33.4% is not a clear majority" P is back!!!!

[RingoMcCartney]

Ringo, I voted out and would again. However the point you were trying to argue (most people in Burnley shared your/our view) was as wrong as UTBs assertion that non-voters were remainers.

Get to North Korea my friend. You'll find like minded people there!

[martin_p]

He's back!! Martin "66.6% /33.4% is not a clear majority" P is back!!!!

Would you like to point out where I said that.

[RingoMcCartney]

When in doubt about any brexit stance, is it the default position to go on about the war?

Not at all.

I was asked, by a Remoaner, about what I thought about a man who was directly involved with Winston Churchill and the War effort.

Poor effort.

Try again.

[aggi]

Not at all.

I was asked, by a Remoaner, about what I thought about a man who was directly involved with Winston Churchill and the War effort.

Poor effort.

Try again.

You did bring it up first though. Not really sure what link you're trying to suggest between "final solution" and "final remedy", can you expand on that? (Although tt's a good job Churchill didn't ignore him, without the Lend Lease agreement we'd have been in serious trouble.)

I agree with you re: funding for parties, it should be paid to whoever gets the votes regardless of affiliation.

[quoonbeatz]

That's me done for the day.

4 hours later, you're still at it....

[RingoMcCartney]

4 hours later, you're still at it....

Thanks for your interest.

[quoonbeatz]

Thanks for your interest.

no worries, its lightly amusing watching you consistently hoist yourself with your own petard.

[Lancasterclaret]

The government are now going to publish all these impact assessments, as official government documents, after one of its ministers called them a loaf of made up ********.

Pretty hard to remember a more shambolic government in our history to be perfectly honest.

[RingoMcCartney]

You did bring it up first though. Not really sure what link you're trying to suggest between "final solution" and "final remedy", can you expand on that? (Although tt's a good job Churchill didn't ignore him, without the Lend Lease agreement we'd have been in serious trouble.)

I agree with you re: funding for parties, it should be paid to whoever gets the votes regardless of affiliation.

To be fair, yes I did bring it up as it shows the clear direction of travel the EU has been perusing all along. The idea the public was sold that we were simply joining a Common Market and not a fledgling superstate, that was hell bent on destroying national sovereignty. Was the biggest lie ever told to the British People.

As for "final remedy" and "final solution". I find the 2 terms chillingly sinister. If you don't that's fine.

The funding of parties , again, is sinister.

[Lancasterclaret]

You are now making stuff up to suit your agenda, and being massively disrespectful to the victims of the final solution by doing it.

There is absolutely no comparison between "final remedy" bought up by Juncker and the "final solution"

To even think that shows ignorance beyond belief.

[Tall Paul]

4 hours later, you're still at it....

He's a liar.

[RingoMcCartney]

You are now making stuff up to suit your agenda, and being massively disrespectful to the victims of the final solution by doing it.

There is absolutely no comparison between "final remedy" bought up by Juncker and the "final solution"

To even think that shows ignorance beyond belief.

Calm down with the mock outrage Lancaster.

I find the term "final remedy" sinister and too close to the term "final solution" for my liking. Get over it.

It's not disrespectful to anybody. In fact if anything it shows a concern that any political organisation that shows clear tendencies to repeat the tyrannical practices of the past should be watched like a hawk and kept in check from not learning the lessons of the past. Don't you dare go there with the insinuation. Seriously now.

[RingoMcCartney]

He's a liar.

[Tall Paul]

Weren't you lying then? Was it just a prediction?

[Lancasterclaret]

Because it uses the word "final"?

Jeez Ringo, you are better than that

[RingoMcCartney]

Because it uses the word "final"?

Jeez Ringo, you are better than that

So the f*** should you be.

Back right off.

[UpTheBeehole]

What other Finals are you upset by Ringo?

FA Cup Final?

Final Reductions, everything must go?

Final Fantasy?

[RingoMcCartney]

Weren't you lying then? Was it just a prediction?

As pushed as I am , I can always find a minute to laugh at the resident gaggle of Remoaners.

[RingoMcCartney]

What other Finals are you upset by Ringo?

FA Cup Final?

Final Reductions, everything must go?

Final Fantasy?

Ive told you.

Crayons - Yes.

Biros - No.

[Lancasterclaret]

I'm pointing out that there is nothing whatsoever linking Junckers "final remedy" and the "final solution", apart from the word "final"

A normal poster with minimum self awareness would acknowledge that he'd perhaps gone a bit far at least.

And its not "mock outrage" to get annoyed at people trivialising the "final solution" btw.

[RingoMcCartney]

I'm pointing out that there is nothing whatsoever linking Junckers "final remedy" and the "final solution", apart from the word "final"

A normal poster with minimum self awareness would acknowledge that he'd perhaps gone a bit far at least.

And its not "mock outrage" to get annoyed at people trivialising the "final solution" btw.

1 It wasn't Junker.

2. Do not accuse me of trivializing anything. Let's leave it at that.

[martin_p]

1 It wasn't Junker.

2. Do not accuse me of trivializing anything. Let's leave it at that.

3. The quote pre-dates the 'final solution' so I'm not sure how they can be related.

[RingoMcCartney]

3. The quote pre-dates the 'final solution' so I'm not sure how they can be related.

Time scales are irrelevant.

Any political organisation that carries the quote on a plaque at the door of its visitors centre has to put under scrutiny.

The suggestion, by that organisation, that it has the "final remedy" to what it perceives as a problem. Namely national sovereignty. Implies that there is no possible alternative. The use of the term "final" should set alarm bells off for anybody who believes in democracy. The draconian tone of the, there is only one answer, no other approach can be considered, has chilling echoes of the past.

Imagine if the odious Nick Griffin, when he was enjoying his 5 minutes of infamy, had said his party "had a "final remedy" for the problem of immigration". There would quite rightly be outrage. The problem for europhiles is that it shines a light on the almost religious zealot-like view that many in the project have towards federalism and their hatred of anything that gets in the way of it. Namely, sovereignty.

It takes on a politically straight jacketed view that it would be futile to even consider other political options. Non believers, in what is the "final remedy", should not be tolerated.

"The grimmest dictatorship is the dictatorship of the prevailing orthodoxy." Dr. Johnson.

[RingoMcCartney]

3. The quote pre-dates the 'final solution' so I'm not sure how they can be related.

Almost forgot Marty! I'm packing up now to get to Newcastle but-

Given that you're in a place where " 66.6% against 33.4% is not a clear majority!"

Who do Pyongyang Athletic play tonight!?

And do the North Koreans actually have a word for "majority!?" Doesn't sound like It!

Enjoy the game.

[martin_p]

Almost forgot Marty! I'm packing up now to get to Newcastle but-

Given that you're in a place where " 66.6% against 33.4% is not a clear majority!"

Who do Pyongyang Athletic play tonight!?

And do the North Koreans actually have a word for "majority!?" Doesn't sound like It!

Enjoy the game.

This coming from a man who thinks that people who didn’t vote for Brexit aren’t fit to be called ‘Burnleyites’!

A man who constantly trumpets falsehoods and won’t consider he’s wrong has far more in common with the North Korean leader than I do.

[Lancasterclaret]

So you are now comparing the EU to Nazi Germany?

You don't need a spade on this thread Ringo, you need a JCB

PS Enjoy the match, cracking venue for football is St James Park

[RingoMcCartney]

This coming from a man who thinks that people who didn’t vote for Brexit aren’t fit to be called ‘Burnleyites’!

A man who constantly trumpets falsehoods and won’t consider he’s wrong has far more in common with the North Korean leader than I do.

Just bump up the post where I said "people who didn’t vote for Brexit aren’t fit to be called ‘Burnleyites’!"

Go on. You know how to do it. Just click on the quotation marks in the top right hand corner and Kim Jung-uns your uncle!

Bet you actually can't!

And it's nowt to do with the poor internet in north Korea either. No, it's more to do with the fact I DIDN'T say It! It was in the middle of you North Korean ministry of propaganda style rant that mentioned id created, and I quote, " non-people"!!!!!!!

I'm done. You've got the rest of the day, evening and night to provide the post Marty. A fools errand I know but given that there's very little to do in the land where "66.4% against 33.4% is not a clear majority" There's very little else to do bar iron your North Korean Peoples Boilersuit all night.

COME ON YOU , MAJORITY VOTED LEAVE, CLARETS!!!!

[RingoMcCartney]

So you are now comparing the EU to Nazi Germany?

You don't need a spade on this thread Ringo, you need a JCB

PS Enjoy the match, cracking venue for football is St James Park

No. In its current form the EU cannot be compared to Nazi Germany.

I'm saying the slippery road to tyranny and dictatorship begins when politicians, using democratic means, push the, there is no alternative and promise "final remedys"

History proves it......

Bye.

[martin_p]

Just bump up the post where I said "people who didn’t vote for Brexit aren’t fit to be called ‘Burnleyites’!"

Go on. You know how to do it. Just click on the quotation marks in the top right hand corner and Kim Jung-uns your uncle!

Bet you actually can't!

And it's nowt to do with the poor internet in north Korea either. No, it's more to do with the fact I DIDN'T say It! It was in the middle of you North Korean ministry of propaganda style rant that mentioned id created, and I quote, " non-people"!!!!!!!

I'm done. You've got the rest of the day, evening and night to provide the post Marty. A fools errand I know but given that there's very little to do in the land where "66.4% against 33.4% is not a clear majority" There's very little else to do bar iron your North Korean Peoples Boilersuit all night.

COME ON YOU , MAJORITY VOTED LEAVE, CLARETS!!!!

I'll do that when you bump the post where I said 66% v 34% wasn't a majority Or is it only you allowed to make stuff up?

[Guich]

I'm pointing out that there is nothing whatsoever linking Junckers "final remedy" and the "final solution", apart from the word "final"

A normal poster with minimum self awareness would acknowledge that he'd perhaps gone a bit far at least.

And its not "mock outrage" to get annoyed at people trivialising the "final solution" btw.

Hi Lancs - I agree that to trivialise the 'final solution' in any way is bang out of order.
But a quick type in of 'remedy' into thesaurus and the first entry offered is 'solution'.

So it's not just the word 'final' which resonates.

Though, seeing myself as a generally right-minded chap, I tend to think the use of the term from Juncker was clumsy and crass rather than sinister.

[martin_p]

Hi Lancs - I agree that to trivialise the 'final solution' in any way is bang out of order.
But a quick type in of 'remedy' into thesaurus and the first entry offered is 'solution'.

So it's not just the word 'final' which resonates.

Though, seeing myself as a generally right-minded chap, I tend to think the use of the term from Juncker was clumsy and crass rather than sinister.

Junker hasn't used the term, it's a quote from a British diplomat from 1939.