Surrogacy for same sex couples

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:17 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:It's funny how in criticising me for reading more into your answer than you claim is there that you go off on some fantasy about soemthing that had nothing to do with anything that i even remotely said.

How about you actually answer the question i was asking? But to make it more clear for you i'll reword it.

In raising a child what can a Mother provide the child that a Father cannot? If same-sex parenting is somehow worst than opposite sex parenting then provide examples of parenting skills that only one gender can possess.

But nature didn't intend for same sex parenting did it , or this conversation wouldn't be happening would it?

I still believe in an old fashioned world where mothers mother their children in a feminine way that only a female should and fathers bring them up in a fatherly masculine way teaching the boys to be men and protecting their sisters. Suppose it comes down to that gender free society you crave on twitter and me living in last century or real world as I prefer.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:20 am

TVC15 wrote:Ok rather than trying to be clever tell us all what a mother can provide and a father cannot (and vice versa) after the child has been born.

Cos we are quite a lot of posts into this thread and still nobody has answered that with specifics other than meaningless words such as “unique”.

Enlighten us all with this as i’m dying to know. Instead you come out with boll-ocks like “no gender no sexuality society” which I do not believe anybody has said on this thread.

Nobody has said it but I bet quite a few are on the bus.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:49 am

Bfcboyo wrote:But nature didn't intend for same sex parenting did it , or this conversation wouldn't be happening would it?

I still believe in an old fashioned world where mothers mother their children in a feminine way that only a female should and fathers bring them up in a fatherly masculine way teaching the boys to be men and protecting their sisters. Suppose it comes down to that gender free society you crave on twitter and me living in last century or real world as I prefer.

To be fair at least you are starting to be honest about the real reasons. I won’t go as far as saying you are homophobic but let’s just say you don’t agree what “those lot up get up to”.

“Fathers bringing up boys in a fartherly masculine way” is funny - you sound like Mr Chumley Warner. I refer to my previous post - is that teaching your boys how to fart ? You do realise they can be taught to fart by same sex couples ? What other things are you referring to ?

Aaah “protecting their sisters”....how gallant of you. Those poor little girls not able to look after themselves in this big bad world without their big brothers farting away all the bullies.

When you say “old fashioned” values are we taking Victorian here or Georgian ?

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

My Mother was the best Father I could have ever asked for.

True story.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:01 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:But nature didn't intend for same sex parenting did it , or this conversation wouldn't be happening would it?

I still believe in an old fashioned world where mothers mother their children in a feminine way that only a female should and fathers bring them up in a fatherly masculine way teaching the boys to be men and protecting their sisters. Suppose it comes down to that gender free society you crave on twitter and me living in last century or real world as I prefer.

Nature never intended for us to fly either. But i bet you've never once complained about how untraditional it is for people to jet off to Spain or Greece every year for their holidays.

Want to know what nature did intend though? Migration. But i bet you're one of those who want us to close our borders to other people migrating here. To Take Out Country Back™, or something.

"nature didn't intend..." lol. Don't come out with that **** unless you're willing to stick to such a dumb principle for everything.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:38 pm

Nature intends for children to die of diseases we can immunize against.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:55 pm

TVC15 wrote:To be fair at least you are starting to be honest about the real reasons. I won’t go as far as saying you are homophobic but let’s just say you don’t agree what “those lot up get up to”.

“Fathers bringing up boys in a fartherly masculine way” is funny - you sound like Mr Chumley Warner. I refer to my previous post - is that teaching your boys how to fart ? You do realise they can be taught to fart by same sex couples ? What other things are you referring to ?

Aaah “protecting their sisters”....how gallant of you. Those poor little girls not able to look after themselves in this big bad world without their big brothers farting away all the bullies.

When you say “old fashioned” values are we taking Victorian here or Georgian ?

I'm an original Knight of the round table sire.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:55 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:Nature intends for children to die of diseases we can immunize against.

Only in America.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:59 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Nature never intended for us to fly either. But i bet you've never once complained about how untraditional it is for people to jet off to Spain or Greece every year for their holidays.

Want to know what nature did intend though? Migration. But i bet you're one of those who want us to close our borders to other people migrating here. To Take Out Country Back™, or something.

"nature didn't intend..." lol. Don't come out with that **** unless you're willing to stick to such a dumb principle for everything.

My argument doesn't lose does it. Everyone homosexual spells doom for humanity.
I really have nothing against real homoseual people just not the ones jumping on the bandwagon.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:59 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Nature never intended for us to fly either. But i bet you've never once complained about how untraditional it is for people to jet off to Spain or Greece every year for their holidays.

Want to know what nature did intend though? Migration. But i bet you're one of those who want us to close our borders to other people migrating here. To Take Out Country Back™, or something.

"nature didn't intend..." lol. Don't come out with that **** unless you're willing to stick to such a dumb principle for everything.

I am an immigrant you bufoon.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:03 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:My argument doesn't lose does it. Everyone homosexual spells doom for humanity.
I really have nothing against real homoseual people just not the ones jumping on the bandwagon.

Yeah, I bet people are queuing up to be treated like dirt by the likes of you. What a bandwagon to be on!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:36 pm

Do people actually believe that "people are jumping on the homosexual bandwagon"?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:39 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:I am an immigrant you bufoon.

It's spelled 'buffoon'. Learn to speak the ******* language!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:40 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:My argument doesn't lose does it. Everyone homosexual spells doom for humanity.
I really have nothing against real homoseual people just not the ones jumping on the bandwagon.

Jesus Christ. Name one person who has jumped on the "homosexual bandwagon".

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:16 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Do people actually believe that "people are jumping on the homosexual bandwagon"?

There is a drive to promote it here yes and some sorry souls will follow.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:17 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Jesus Christ. Name one person who has jumped on the "homosexual bandwagon".

George Michael

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:20 pm

martin_p wrote:Yeah, I bet people are queuing up to be treated like dirt by the likes of you. What a bandwagon to be on!

Treated like dirt. I have never spoken badly or upset anybody no matter creed ,colour ,gender or sexuality. I have only voiced personal opinon on a forum. I treat people on face value no matter my beliefs and opinions.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:22 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:It's spelled 'buffoon'. Learn to speak the ******* language!

At last humor amongst debate.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:15 pm

No one ever taught me how to fart

I'm happy to announce I've managed to get the hang of it pretty well though

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:07 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:What can a Mother provide her child that a Father cannot? And vice versa?

Bfcboyo wrote:Lets start with a womb to grow said embryo in.

I'll raise your womb with milk.*

* Includes immune system protection

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:15 pm

* mother dies in childbirth (personal story)

"Sorry, Kid. You're sub-optimal"

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:17 pm

Rowls wrote:I'll raise your womb with milk.*

* Includes immune system protection

Not all mothers breast feed, some cannot.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:26 pm

So medical insufficiences of lactation support whatever view it is you have, even though you apparently can't understand what I've written?

Keep going Sidney.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:31 pm

I can , I just happen to think you're wrong on this subject because your views are archaic.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:39 pm

But you haven't even managed to summarize my views anywhere near accurately.

The closest you've got is wildly misrepresenting my views in a way that would me libellous if I had the money or inclination to sue you.

All the best

Rowls

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:39 pm

7 pages in and still decent human beings aren't allowed children according to some on here.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:42 pm

Rowls wrote:So medical insufficiences of lactation support whatever view it is you have, even though you apparently can't understand what I've written?

Keep going Sidney.

"medical insufficiences of lactation"

I'm not sure that you understand how lactation works. How would the inability of someone to lactate be a hinderence to them receivign a surrogate or adopted child? Do you think that mothers receiving a child through adoption suddenly lactate at the sight of a baby? Where the hell did you study biology?

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:44 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:"medical insufficiences of lactation"

I'm not sure that you understand how lactation works. How would the inability of someone to lactate be a hinderence to them receivign a surrogate or adopted child? Do you think that mothers receiving a child through adoption suddenly lactate at the sight of a baby? Where the hell did you study biology?

And I, in turn, turtlebrains think you wilfully misunderstand the obvious point I made.

You asked "what can a women provide that a man cannot?"

My answer 'milk'.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:45 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:"medical insufficiences of lactation"

FYI

There are a small number of women who are unable to lactate for medical reasons.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:45 pm

Rowls wrote:And I, in turn, turtlebrains think you wilfully misunderstand the obvious point I made.

You asked "what can a women provide that a man cannot?"

My answer 'milk'.

You know that shops stock milk, right? Anyone can just go in and buy it.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:46 pm

Sidney1st wrote:7 pages in and still decent human beings aren't allowed children according to some on here.

But you haven't demonstrated any knowledge of who they are.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:46 pm

Rowls wrote:But you haven't even managed to summarize my views anywhere near accurately.

The closest you've got is wildly misrepresenting my views in a way that would me libellous if I had the money or inclination to sue you.

All the best

Rowls

When you can provide an understandable reason why decent people aren't allowed kids then we can chat.

A child doesn't require a parent from each gender to allow them to be raised.
That's been proven and is every single day by straight people.

They don't require straight parents to get a decent upbringing and having straight parents doesn't guarantee they'll turn out decent adults.

This is something you're refusing to accept, so what you're doing instead is playing on the words to make your self sound smarter etc.
Just makes you look a Berk.

From memory you don't have kids so you don't even know what's involved in raising a child, you're basing it on studies that are biased in favour of mixed gender couples because this country was so bloody backwards about homosexuals due to religious beliefs ingrained for hundreds of years so gay couples haven't had a fair and deserved chance to prove they can be just as good or just as rubbish at parenting as straight people.

You mention breast feeding, but as I've said not all women breastfeed, some can't and some make a choice.
You then accuse me of not understanding your post when I did, I just provided a counter argument which you didn't like.

Come back when you've got a clue what you're talking about.

Until then, good day.

Sid.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:47 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:You know that shops stock milk, right? Anyone can just go in and buy it.

Does this pasteurized milk help kick start a child's immune system?

Have you ever fed a baby?

What kind of milk would you give a newborn child? Semi-skimmed? Carnation?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:48 pm

Rowls wrote:But you haven't demonstrated any knowledge of who they are.

Who decent people are?

I know lots of them, both straight and gay who do wonderful jobs of raising kids.

Or have I misread your vague comment wildly?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:51 pm

Rowls wrote:Does this pasteurized milk help kick start a child's immune system?

Have you ever fed a baby?

What kind of milk would you give a newborn child? Semi-skimmed? Carnation?

When my daughter was born in 2015 the hospital in Oxford had 2 different brands of milk for newborns.
That's because babies sometimes prefer one over the other.

My daughter was never breastfed because her mum couldn't do it.

We stayed with the formula milk for as long as my daughter needed it.

Does that answer the question sufficiently?

Its 2018, kids don't need breast feeding thanks to a thing called modern science.

I know there's been a push recently by people to make women breastfeed.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:52 pm

Death in childbirth is not a lifestyle choice. Surrogacy by same sex couples is.

Nature intended for a child to be raised by a mother and father. This is just a plain fact. This cannot always happen due to death,illness, relationship breakdown etc There shouldn't be any chance of a child being disadvantaged by a purely selfish decision.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:54 pm

No nature didn't.

Nature required mixed genders to create a child, nowhere does it say in the human lifestyle handbook that two genders are needed to raise a child.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:57 pm

Blackrod wrote:Death in childbirth is not a lifestyle choice. Surrogacy by same sex couples is.

Nature intended for a child to be raised by a mother and father. This is just a plain fact. This cannot always happen due to death,illness, relationship breakdown etc There shouldn't be any chance of a child being disadvantaged by a purely selfish decision.

If we're going by a strict interpretaion of what you think nature intended then surely nature never intended for people who's babies keep dying at birth to have kids. But i don't see you rallying against infertile straight couples when they want to have children that you think nature never intended them to have. It's only gay couples you're complaining about. I wonder why.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:04 pm

Rowls wrote:But you haven't even managed to summarize my views anywhere near accurately.

To be fair, neither have you.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:05 pm

Rowls wrote:Does this pasteurized milk help kick start a child's immune system?

Have you ever fed a baby?

What kind of milk would you give a newborn child? Semi-skimmed? Carnation?

Formula. Even if you don’t have a child you must have seen the adverts.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:41 am

Sidney1st wrote:My daughter was never breastfed because her mum couldn't do it.

Her mother is a plight on Humanity and your daughter a necessary sacrifice to the betterment of the Human species. Look, see! I can do armchair anthropology, too!

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:06 am

Sidney1st wrote:When my daughter was born in 2015 the hospital in Oxford had 2 different brands of milk for newborns.
That's because babies sometimes prefer one over the other.

My daughter was never breastfed because her mum couldn't do it.

We stayed with the formula milk for as long as my daughter needed it.

Does that answer the question sufficiently?

Its 2018, kids don't need breast feeding thanks to a thing called modern science.

I know there's been a push recently by people to make women breastfeed.

And while we sit on our rosy liitle thrones oblivious to the threats ahead like every generation has prior. What could possibly go wrong should a global disaster strike , what say a war, or total power loss and maybe we have to start living dare I say normally again.

Terrible thing but homosexual homosapiens don't feature at all while the laws of natural selection keep the neanderthals .

Point being our recent little cultural fad to go over the top to cater for the whims of all is well , over the top.

We are all human we all deserve total equality no matter what we want or who we are, anybody that thinks differently is a a scummy neanderthal pig.
Doesn't really work like that does it , I prefer a more natural selection where reality dictates the laws of society. By all means bend those rules but don't ask for a pedestal to stand on and more rights than others to satisfy your need to be accepted by the facebook generation and appease your tarnished soul.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:20 am

Sidney1st wrote:Who decent people are?

I know lots of them, both straight and gay who do wonderful jobs of raising kids.

Or have I misread your vague comment wildly?

Lots? Where is this modern fairy metropolis utopia you reside? Surely the numbers of gay couples with kids dont branch into the 'lots' category? What sort of numbers are we talking? purely for facts to shoot you with at a latter stage of this stage show.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:52 am

Bfcboyo wrote:Lots? Where is this modern fairy metropolis utopia you reside? Surely the numbers of gay couples with kids dont branch into the 'lots' category? What sort of numbers are we talking? purely for facts to shoot you with at a latter stage of this stage show.

You haven't read the comment I replied too.

Do that and then we can carry on.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:54 am

Bfcboyo wrote:And while we sit on our rosy liitle thrones oblivious to the threats ahead like every generation has prior. What could possibly go wrong should a global disaster strike , what say a war, or total power loss and maybe we have to start living dare I say normally again.

Terrible thing but homosexual homosapiens don't feature at all while the laws of natural selection keep the neanderthals .

Point being our recent little cultural fad to go over the top to cater for the whims of all is well , over the top.

We are all human we all deserve total equality no matter what we want or who we are, anybody that thinks differently is a a scummy neanderthal pig.
Doesn't really work like that does it , I prefer a more natural selection where reality dictates the laws of society. By all means bend those rules but don't ask for a pedestal to stand on and more rights than others to satisfy your need to be accepted by the facebook generation and appease your tarnished soul.

You're on crack aren't you?

My soul is beyond redemption and i certainly don't need to be accepted by anyone, whichever social media site they use.

This is about treating people equally, not because it's the current fad to do so, but because it's the right thing to do.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:57 am

Bfcboyo wrote: Terrible thing but homosexual homosapiens don't feature at all while the laws of natural selection keep the neanderthals.

Well natural selection has done a great job of getting us to where we are now, with gay people a plenty, so I don’t think your plan quite works.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:38 am

martin_p wrote:Well natural selection has done a great job of getting us to where we are now, with gay people a plenty, so I don’t think your plan quite works.

Neither does the current drive to promote homosexuality once the surrogacy fails. I'm just sick and tired of equal rights gone mad. By all means be Gay, just stop being needy and accept your lot and get on with it. Your gay you can't have kids , we might let you adopt if your suitable now get on with your life and stop thinking the world orbits you.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:49 am

Sidney1st wrote:You're on crack aren't you?

My soul is beyond redemption and i certainly don't need to be accepted by anyone, whichever social media site they use.

This is about treating people equally, not because it's the current fad to do so, but because it's the right thing to do.

People are not equal they are idividuals and should be treated according to the life they choose. Gay and can't have kids then accept your lot. Reeks of poor old me society that tires me. Man up for want of a better phrase.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:53 am

Sidney1st wrote:You haven't read the comment I replied too.

Do that and then we can carry on.

I just wanted a number of gay people you know bringing up kids? I'd be gobsmacked if it is more than 3.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:00 am

Bfcboyo wrote:I just wanted a number of gay people you know bringing up kids? I'd be gobsmacked if it is more than 3.

Would maybe be more if it wasn't for attitudes of bigotted dinosaurs who think that children should rot in the social care system instead of being placed with a loving gay couple.