Incident in London

[RingoMcCartney]

We shouldn't have invaded Iraq the second time. Libya and Iraq were more stable with dictators in charge.

Using Britains foreign policy is a defelcting technique used by the islamic apologist chimps.

Sweden had a recent Islamic terorist attack

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04 ... stockholm/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sweden has not been involved in the Middle East.

Germany, likewise, has not.

Both have suffered from appalling atrocities.

But the perpetrators of these terrorist atrocitities DO HAVE one theing in common.

Islam............

[Dyched]

We obviously can't bollard all of London. But we can at least bollard bridges. If there's something we can do to try and stop this how ever small the difference makes it worth it.

[MACCA]

I think just protecting London will work, There are no knives, vans or innocent people going about their daily business elsewhere, why didn't the powers that be think of this....

[morpheus2]

As opposed to saying what?
What would Churchill have said?

Churchill would have probably come out with some of his rather keen observations of Islam and many of its followers. Far too brutally honest for some of the snowflakes on here, they would be in complete meltdown.

[Dyched]

Ill just sit and wait for my family/friends to be brutally murdered in their own country then

[Imploding Turtle]

It’s probably getting to a similar level as Ulster in the 70s and 80s at the moment, not that I’ve done any research but it feels like it.

There you had some big grievances on both sides and a breeding ground for endless numbers of angry young men happy to murder folk for a cause. Now some delinquent pricks in Bradford or East London aren’t living under ‘occupation’ of course but if they watch enough YouTube videos and listen to enough extremists in their area then they might believe the muslim oppression narrative.

I’m not sure what you do about this. In the past people were radicalised around the world by things they saw in their streets or town, now they live in echo chambers on the internet or local ghettoes and being thousands of miles from the cause of their perceived grievance is irrelevant.

I remember about 10 or 15 years ago on two separate occasions getting taxis in East Lancs and the drivers, both in their 40s or 50s spending a good part of the journey telling me about muslim oppression around the world. I think Chechnya and Bosnia were the cause of their angst at the time. Seemed weird then that they were so upset about something that affected absolutely nobody they knew or even a country they’d ever see. But if older guys were happy talking to strangers about their Islamic cause back then, god knows what kids are hearing today via their encrypted communications with likeminded crackpots.

Not really a suggestion of a solution there. But up to now, I don’t think internment, deportation or pretending mosques and their patrons couldn’t do a hell of a lot more are answers either.

It's not really as bad. Not even close. You just need to compare the figures to know that. But i can understand why it feel worse. Back then All you'd have heard about someone driving onto the pavement to kill people deliberately was possibly 5-10 minutes about it on the 1pm, 6pm and 10pm news broadcasts and some articles about it in the newspaper the next day. And between the scheduled news broadcasts everyone just carried on with their day. But now it's coming at you from every direction and everyone's glued for hours watching to make sure that they have up-to-the-second information. We've got two 24-hour news channels spending hours reporting on it. We've got everyone reporting or commenting on it live on twitter and facebook. We've got video of it either happening or the immediate aftermath available to us within minutes through our phones. Every newspaper has websites now offering live updates and commentary. It's crazy.

Things aren't neally as bad, it's just that it's getting reported on a lot more, and more quickly.

[LeadBelly]

"What would Churchill have said?"

At the outbreak of war with Hitler, 80,000 potential "enemy aliens" were taken in and classified as high, medium or low risk. The 600 high risks were interned straight away, 6000 mediums were subject to restrictions and "watched", 64,000 were left alone (many of these were Jews who had left Germany for obvious reasons).
By 1940, more Germans and then Italians also were collected and sent to camps (Isle of Mann especially). Quite a lot were deported to Canada or Australia.
The numbers interned later decreased as the government realised that many were sympathetic rather than hostile.

Churchill didnt muck about, he had to win a war and "being nice" didnt come into it.

[Imploding Turtle]

We obviously can't bollard all of London. But we can at least bollard bridges. If there's something we can do to try and stop this how ever small the difference makes it worth it.

How do ambulances, the fire brigade and police get from one side to another if cars can't use the pavement to get out of their way to attend a mass casualty emergency?

[claretandy]

Great statement by the prime minister, finally calling a spade a spade.

[Imploding Turtle]

Great statement by the prime minister, finally calling a spade a spade.

What did she say that had never been said before?

[Goalposts]

churchill's thoughts on islam from 100 years ago :-

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism (Islam) lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.”

Churchill apparently witnessed the same phenomenon in several places he visited. “The effects are apparent in many countries: improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.”

He saw the temporal and the eternal tainted by their belief system. “A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity,” he wrote.

The second-class status of women also grated at the young churchill . “The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men,” he noted.

“Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.”

Well before the birth of modern Israel, its terror tactics and drive for world domination were felt. “Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step, and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it (Islam) has vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”

[RingoMcCartney]

Last nights terrorist atrocity. Last weeks terrorist atrocity at the Manchester Arena. The terrorist atrocity at Westminster Bridge. The Beheading of Drummer Lee Rigby in the street by terrorists. And all FUTURE terrorist atrocities. Have got the Official Imploding Turtle seal of approval.


"There is no limit to the number of terrorists I'd rather commit atrocities than have us abandon the principle of human rights."

Imploding Turtle, January 2017, on the "Trumps Ban" Thread, Up the clarets, Bee Hole End message board.

Some people are obviously more concerned about human RIGHTS than human LIVES.

[ClaretMoffitt]

What did she say that had never been said before?

This.

It was just more empty rhetoric just with a hardened tone. Still kissing the arse of Islam saying that the extremism has nothing to do with it and is simply a random perversion of its wonderful message.

[dpinsussex]

After all the atrocities of the last few months we are where we are. Bickering over whose fault it was. What caused these attacks isnt going to change a thing. Time for every one irrespective of political preference to come together and start looking for solutions.
Time to dràw a line under the past folks and concentrate on what we can now control

[BleedingClaret]

Since the Manchester bombing these soon to be killers have been walking around freely and everyone who has encountered them has been told not to view the Muslims around them suspiciously and it has, with the verbal attack on 'Prevent' become a stronger argument not to be invasive in their communities.
The next killers/bombers are out there walking around but it is even less likely that anyone would raise concerns about them.
Open your eyes, was the line from one of the bereaved parent couples of Manchester.
Seems people who've had their kids blown up are not too interested in being PC
It is a considerable amount of the Muslim community that believes we have brought this on ourselves with our Foreign policy and it's hard to argue against that. It's also hard to argue that their Religious extremism has brought that carnage onto and into many of their own counties and that same division and hatred of other Religions is doing the same and always would to any land in which they dwell.
If you have a Town that ends up with 30% Sunni Muslims and 30% Shia Muslims how once one controlled the council and going forward the police would the other accept it, because they would not integrate.
Seems simplistic to you scholars but it basic tribal rivalry and when you add the Wahhabism of Islamic state into the mix.
Religious separation was and still is the problem in Northern Ireland and we've imported a much more severe version of it here.
Open your eyes

[Rick_Muller]

I blame the internet - too much opportunity to install fear in weak minded people.

EDIT - apologies I forgot a smiley...

[Rick_Muller]

Using Britains foreign policy is a defelcting technique used by the islamic apologist chimps.

Sweden had a recent Islamic terorist attack

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04 ... stockholm/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sweden has not been involved in the Middle East.

Germany, likewise, has not.

Both have suffered from appalling atrocities.

But the perpetrators of these terrorist atrocitities DO HAVE one theing in common.

Islam............

They also have insanity in common...

[RingoMcCartney]

They also have insanity in common...

I'd say its insanity to refuse to accept there's any other common link than "insanity"..............

[ClaretMoffitt]

They also have insanity in common...

There sure is a lot of these random murderous insane people drawn to the religion of peace. Curious isn't it?

[KefkaClaret]

People who blame the internet are the same people who said video games cause violence.

[Imploding Turtle]

Last nights terrorist atrocity. Last weeks terrorist atrocity at the Manchester Arena. The terrorist atrocity at Westminster Bridge. The Beheading of Drummer Lee Rigby in the street by terrorists. And all FUTURE terrorist atrocities. Have got the Official Imploding Turtle seal of approval.


"There is no limit to the number of terrorists I'd rather commit atrocities than have us abandon the principle of human rights."

Imploding Turtle, January 2017, on the "Trumps Ban" Thread, Up the clarets, Bee Hole End message board.

Some people are obviously more concerned about human RIGHTS than human LIVES.

At what point do i report him for harrassment? I've only ever reported ad-bots and (i think) one guy who said he didn't want Rovers to go bust.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Ringo definitely doesn't try his best to make capital out of these incidents.

It just really really really seems like it.

[Rick_Muller]

At what point do i report him for harrassment? I've only ever reported ad-bots and (i think) one guy who said he didn't want Rovers to go bust.

No need to report, normal people can see what's happening

[ksrclaret]

Serious question for Ringo and Moffitt - have you ever met a Muslim? Spoken to a Muslim? Befriended a Muslim? Your hatred for Muslims suggests you haven't.

I work and speak with Muslims every single day, and there is absolutely no way that their idea of religion played any part in what happened last night and before. No chance.

[RingoMcCartney]

Ringo definitely doesn't try his best to make capital out of these incidents.

It just really really really seems like it.

So anybody who agrees with your view has an opinion.

Anybody who doesnt agree with your opinion, "really really likes" whats happening in this country.

Thats a strange way of looking at it.

[Imploding Turtle]

So anybody who agrees with your view has an opinion.

Anybody who doesnt agree with your opinion, "really really likes" whats happening in this country.

Thats a strange way of looking at it.

Says the guy who said another poster approves of terrorist attacks.

[Bordeauxclaret]

So anybody who agrees with your view has an opinion.

Anybody who doesnt agree with your opinion, "really really likes" whats happening in this country.

Thats a strange way of looking at it.

No. Not anybody.

[RingoMcCartney]

Serious question for Ringo and Moffitt - have you ever met a Muslim? Spoken to a Muslim? Befriended a Muslim? Your hatred for Muslims suggests you haven't.

I work and speak with Muslims every single day, and there is absolutely no way that their idea of religion played any part in what happened last night and before. No chance.

You asked 3 questions

Ill answer.

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

I dont hate muslims. I hate islamic terrorists and the bloodthirsty attrocities they carry out.

[ksrclaret]

You asked 3 questions

Ill answer.

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

I dont hate muslims. I hate islamic terrorists and the bloodthirsty attrocities they carry out.

Don't pretend to be reasonable. You've used another terrorist incident to come on here and start spouting your anti-Islam agenda.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Serious question for Ringo and Moffitt - have you ever met a Muslim? Spoken to a Muslim? Befriended a Muslim? Your hatred for Muslims suggests you haven't.

I work and speak with Muslims every single day, and there is absolutely no way that their idea of religion played any part in what happened last night and before. No chance.

Lived up Duke bar for 5 years. Had to move out because it was getting too unsafe. This was 20 years ago.

Met more than I can count, some are even friends and are genuinely good people, but I have also met many who are really quite vile people. Hate gays, hate white people (literally ruse to shake my hand) absolute thug mentality.

Bet I've met more and of more types than you have anyway. Once even had two pull a machete in my face on the Leeds and Liverpool canal and force the friend I was with to jump in it.

[Imploding Turtle]

It's funny how when liberals say "despite this terrorist attack you shouldn't hate Muslims" we're accused of being terrorist sympathisers. But you ask one of those people making that accusation "why do you hate Muslims?" they'll say "I don't hate Muslims." It's so funny.

[Rick_Muller]

You asked 3 questions

Ill answer.

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

I dont hate muslims. I hate islamic terrorists and the bloodthirsty attrocities they carry out.

Of course you hate Islamic terrorists and I bet you hate Ian Brady, or Fred West - they were both unhinged insane killers too - but you don't bring their religious beliefs into it

[RingoMcCartney]

Don't pretend to be reasonable. You've used another terrorist incident to come on here and start spouting your anti-Islam agenda.

Didnt like the answers I gave? You seem unable to see the difference between being anti-islam, and anti islamic terrorism. There is a difference. I dont want to go round and round to be honest.

[Mrpotatohead]

Of course you hate Islamic terrorists and I bet you hate Ian Brady, or Fred West - they were both unhinged insane killers too - but you don't bring their religious beliefs into it

Maybe because Ian Brady didn't kill children in the name of God and Jesus?

[RingoMcCartney]

Of course you hate Islamic terrorists and I bet you hate Ian Brady, or Fred West - they were both unhinged insane killers too - but you don't bring their religious beliefs into it

Again, dont want to go round and round.

Ive said my piece and pointed out that some people think that simply repeating the same approach, to islamic terrorism, over and over again and expecting a different outcome is not insanity. It is.

[ksrclaret]

Lived up Duke bar for 5 years. Had to move out because it was getting too unsafe. This was 20 years ago.

Met more than I can count, some are even friends and are genuinely good people, but I have also met many who are really quite vile people. Hate gays, hate white people (literally ruse to shake my hand) absolute thug mentality.

Bet I've met more and of more types than you have anyway. Once even had two pull a machete in my face on the Leeds and Liverpool canal and force the friend I was with to jump in it.

Christ. You've certainly had far worse experiences than I have.

But you've mentioned that you'd class some Muslims as your friends, so try and remember to them their religion is being hijacked and used to generate fear and when people incite hatred towards their religion as a concept, they're just as scared of this extremism as we are right now.

[claretandy]

Tony Bellew just retweeted this, this is what we are up against.

[Imploding Turtle]

Tony Bellew just retweeted this, this is what we are up against.

We're up against someone who uses their personal Twitter account with their picture attached? I fancy our chances.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Christ. You've certainly had far worse experiences than I have.

But you've mentioned that you'd class some Muslims as your friends, so try and remember to them their religion is being hijacked and used to generate fear and when people incite hatred towards their religion as a concept, they're just as scared of this extremism as we are right now.

I think it's a he'll of a lot more complicated than that mate. I think that the good Muslims I've met are just good people, that's it. It's not because of their religion, it's just who they are as people. That in most cases is the same in reverse, especially regarding the thug mentality I used to meet on a daily basis. However the out right hatred of gays, thinking themselves better than non Muslims, and total lack of respect for the girls on the estate. I fear that was more religious driven.

[nil_desperandum]

What, do you know what he would have said? If so, how?

"Stand firm and carry on" was the message he had printed and delivered to millions during the onslaught in London in 1941.
I could - however- find you numerous other quotes by him where he resolutely defended our freedoms, and asked what it was we were fighting for if not freedom and justice?

[RingoMcCartney]

Tony Bellew just retweeted this, this is what we are up against.

Steady on Andy old bean. You'll get labelled an islamaphobe. Somebody pushing a vile anti islamic agenda!

[Bordeauxclaret]

Wonder if there is someone on a other messageboard somewhere quoting things from Ringo, claretandy et al and saying "this is what we are up against".

They'd probably be laughed at as well.

[Greenmile]

Lived up Duke bar for 5 years. Had to move out because it was getting too unsafe. This was 20 years ago.

Met more than I can count, some are even friends and are genuinely good people, but I have also met many who are really quite vile people. Hate gays, hate white people (literally ruse to shake my hand) absolute thug mentality.

Bet I've met more and of more types than you have anyway. Once even had two pull a machete in my face on the Leeds and Liverpool canal and force the friend I was with to jump in it.

Have you considered the possibility that it's Islamophobes they hate rather than all white people? I think I'd probably refuse to shake your hand if I was a Muslim, given that you would believe that I and all my family are basically terrorist ****.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Have you considered the possibility that it's Islamophobes they hate rather than all white people. I think I'd probably refuse to shake your hand if I was a Muslim, given that you would believe that I and all my family are basically terrorist ****.

You think I had the views I do now at 16?

[Greenmile]

You think I had the views I do now at 16?

I credit you with some degree of consistency, yes. Is that wrong?

[Greenmile]

Lived up Duke bar for 5 years. Had to move out because it was getting too unsafe. This was 20 years ago.

Met more than I can count, some are even friends and are genuinely good people, but I have also met many who are really quite vile people. Hate gays, hate white people (literally ruse to shake my hand) absolute thug mentality.

Bet I've met more and of more types than you have anyway. Once even had two pull a machete in my face on the Leeds and Liverpool canal and force the friend I was with to jump in it.

Earlier in the thread you say you are 27. So you took the decision to move at the age of around 7?

[ClaretMoffitt]

Earlier in the thread you say you are 27. So you took the decision to move at the age of around 7?

No my parents did... Obviously...

[Spijed]

I'm afraid to take my kids to city centres and popular tourist attractions at the moment.

Why? Do you know how many people go on these attractions and how many get killed each year?

You are far more likely to get gunned down in a gospel church in Texas than you are likely to get blown up at a tourist attraction.

Over 30,000 people get shot dead in the States each year, yet it isn't considered a problem.

[Imploding Turtle]

Why? Do you know how many people go on these attractions and how many get killed each year?

You are far more likely to get gunned down in a gospel church in Texas than you are likely to get blown up at a tourist attraction.

Over 30,000 people get shot dead in the States each year, yet it isn't considered a problem.

It's considered a problem when it's a Muslim doing the shooting.

[Damo]

At what point do i report him for harrassment? I've only ever reported ad-bots and (i think) one guy who said he didn't want Rovers to go bust.

Isn't he just posting your quote?