UK Car Industry Investment Plummets Due To Brexit

[randomclaret2]

Does posting abusive rubbish 24/7 constitute a job ?

[Darthlaw]

That latest article pins the blame squarely on Brexit, and its knock on effects.

Erm, what about the diesel bit? “consumers turned their backs on diesel vehicles.”

I assume because you didn’t highlight that bit in bold, you missed it. Or it didn’t suit your agenda, of course...

Talking to many car dealers, they have stated that the motor finance hole that the industry has created for itself is hitting their sales the hardest. People are more and more in negative equity thanks to the ludicrous balloon figures attached to their agreements. The media have reported many times on this but of course it’s brexit’s fault, isn’t it?

[UpTheBeehole]

Erm, what about the diesel bit? “consumers turned their backs on diesel vehicles.”

I assume because you didn’t highlight that bit in bold, you missed it. Or it didn’t suit your agenda, of course...

Talking to many car dealers, they have stated that the motor finance hole that the industry has created for itself is hitting their sales the hardest. People are more and more in negative equity thanks to the ludicrous balloon figures attached to their agreements. The media have reported many times on this but of course it’s brexit’s fault, isn’t it?

Sidney gave the diesel as a reason, and I accept that, however the elephant in the room is Brexit, which he flat out refuses to acknowledge as a threat to his industry, because of the usual brexiteer pigheaded nature.

[Sidney1st]

Mate, it's not my industry up sh*t creek, it's not my job on the line.

You've never said what it is you do.

No need to be ashamed of working at Costa.

[UpTheBeehole]

I've previously stated exactly what I do. You should pay more attention to others.

[Sidney1st]

Sidney gave the diesel as a reason, and I accept that, however the elephant in the room is Brexit, which he flat out refuses to acknowledge as a threat to his industry, because of the usual brexiteer pigheaded nature.

More lies again from you.

I've said it's a contributor to the drop, it isn't the sole reason.

You can't even keep up with the conversation at hand.

You posted something which highlights one of the several reasons I've mentioned which you dismissed because you only want to blame Brexit.

Moron

[Sidney1st]

I've previously stated exactly what I do. You should pay more attention to others.

You've never said when I've asked you directly.

I shall just assume you're a Costa coffee worker (other brands are available).

Am I allowed to sneer at you for it yet like you do to me?

[UpTheBeehole]

I've mentioned it in previous postings, and I particlarly remember a conversation with dsr about it.

I am a department manager in the statistics industry. Hence all the stats all the time.

It's essentially what I do.

[Paul Waine]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -hit-sales

Wow, that's strange Sidney, you've been saying it's nothing to do with Brexit, and it turns out it's very much to do with brexit!

Hi UTB, did you go through all of that Guardian article and add all the bold font?

I guess you know that the Guardian is a big "anti-brexit" newspaper? I guess you know that SMMT is a big "anti-brexit" industry group?

How often would you expect SMMT to say that "actually, it's because several of our members have cheated on diesel pollution - and that's why our customers have stopped buying our diesel vehicles...." But, if the Guardian wasn't dominated by it's "anti-brexit" views, maybe it could have placed the diesel pollution issue first in it's reasons for decline in sales? Isn't it somewhere near 50,000 additional deaths each year that are being caused by diesel pollution?

Aren't all the car manufacturers supposed to be developing more electric and hybrid vehicles? If there are all these new vehicles sometime in the future, doesn't it make sense for the buyers to wait a little bit and see if these new vehicles are any good?

[Paul Waine]

I've mentioned it in previous postings, and I particlarly remember a conversation with dsr about it.

I am a department manager in the statistics industry. Hence all the stats all the time.

It's essentially what I do.

Sounds like an interesting role. What is "the statistics industry?" Is that ONS? Or, an actuarial role in an insurance company? Or, MORI or similar? Or banking?

[UpTheBeehole]

Hi UTB, did you go through all of that Guardian article and add all the bold font?

I guess you know that the Guardian is a big "anti-brexit" newspaper? I guess you know that SMMT is a big "anti-brexit" industry group?

How often would you expect SMMT to say that "actually, it's because several of our members have cheated on diesel pollution - and that's why our customers have stopped buying our diesel vehicles...." But, if the Guardian wasn't dominated by it's "anti-brexit" views, maybe it could have placed the diesel pollution issue first in it's reasons for decline in sales? Isn't it somewhere near 50,000 additional deaths each year that are being caused by diesel pollution?

Aren't all the car manufacturers supposed to be developing more electric and hybrid vehicles? If there are all these new vehicles sometime in the future, doesn't it make sense for the buyers to wait a little bit and see if these new vehicles are any good?

How about a story from the pro-brexit Daily Telegraph?

Sales of new cars are expected to fall to 2.565m this year as economic uncertainty and fears about the impact of Brexit put off motorists from making big ticket purchases.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... purchases/

[Damo]

I've mentioned it in previous postings, and I particlarly remember a conversation with dsr about it.

I am a department manager in the statistics industry. Hence all the stats all the time.

It's essentially what I do.

That explains quite a lot.
Benjamin Disraeli summed it up best

[UpTheBeehole]

That explains quite a lot.
Benjamin Disraeli summed it up best

Whereas you and the rest of your brexiteer chums just go for damned lies.

[Paul Waine]

How about a story from the pro-brexit Daily Telegraph?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... purchases/

Thanks. You can see the difference in emphasis. A lot more focus on the diesel scandal and diesel pollution.

[Sidney1st]

Wasting your time Paul, he's decided it's Brexit and only Brexit

Still hasn't provided proof of me saying it's nothing to do with Brexit when I actually say it contributes.

We've discussed all the other issues in the motor industry, how it changes/evolves and how companies come and go all the time.

PSA left Coventry and that wasn't a Brexit issue.
Ford moved a plant to Turkey and that wasn't Brexit (turns out they got some financial 'help' from the EU to go).
Rover disappearing wasn't Brexit.

This div will just blame it all on Brexit to suit his agenda.
One day he might have an original thought on it, but I doubt it...

[Sidney1st]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43211946" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting news from Germany in regards to banning older diesels from some cities.
Also on that report, Copenhagan are wanting to ban all diesels, inc newer ones.

Paris, Madrid, Mexico City and Athens have all pledged to ban diesel vehicles from city centres by 2025, while the mayor of Copenhagen wants to ban new diesel cars from entering the city as soon as next year.

The death knell for diesels is approaching.

[Lancasterclaret]

Not for us though Sidney.

We won't be listening to any daft proposals like that from the EUSSR!

We'll have the cleanest diesels in the world, just like Mr Trumps "clean coal".

[Sidney1st]

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/02/28/arr ... to00000015" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rome to follow with a ban on diesels.
Absolutely not a reason why diesel sales will fall across Europe in light of the ruling in Germany.
Of course consumers will continue to buy diesels .... oh wait.

[RingoMcCartney]

Don't expect to hear this great news on the BBC, Brussels Broadcasting Corporation, any time soon.

Huge Brexit boost for Britain as Toyota announces new generation Auris will be built in the UK

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/a ... lt-UK.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What was it Project Fear were lying to us about Toyota leaving the UK prior to the referendum!?

Lying unpatriotic B*******s

[Sidney1st]

http://media.toyota.co.uk/2018/02/toyot ... car-plant/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just incase the usual suspects refuse to read the Daily Mail, here's the article from Toyota's own site.

[RingoMcCartney]

Nice one Sid.

Now they can enjoy reading positive news for the UK without feeling they've soiled themselves by reading such a rag only read by knuckle dragging xenophobic little Englanders.

[Sidney1st]

With around 85 per cent of our UK vehicle production exported to European markets, continued free and frictionless trade between the UK and Europe will be vital for future success.”

This part is worth noting from my link though, which makes you wonder why they've made the announcement now when so many people are screaming that a deal isn't being negotiated properly etc.
What do Toyota know that we don't?

[Sidney1st]

This decision follows TME’s announcement of more than £240 million investment in TMUK in March last year. The factory is being upgraded with new equipment, technologies and systems to enable manufacture of vehicles on the Toyota New Global Architecture (TNGA) platform.

Since start of production in 1992, they have built more than four million vehicles and around five million engines and engine sets in the UK. The plants have benefited from Toyota investment totalling more than £2.75 billion and together currently employ more than 3,000 people.TMUK has the distinction of being Toyota’s first centre for hybrid vehicle manufacturing in Europe.

One reason for a low investment figure last year I suspect will be due to the higher standard of current equipment in the factories meaning massive investment isn't needed to keep up to date.
This is something that many people don't always understand about car manufacturing.
If the plants aren't kept up to date with their equipment then they'll disappear like so many others have done over the decades, or struggle to keep up with demand.
The plus side is when they want to do something new it requires minimal investment which is more manageable.

BMW Oxford will be able to churn out the electric Mini quite easily because again it won't require massive injections of funds to modernize their equpiment, because that's also happening but hasn't been mentioned much.

[aggi]

This part is worth noting from my link though, which makes you wonder why they've made the announcement now when so many people are screaming that a deal isn't being negotiated properly etc.
What do Toyota know that we don't?

I suspect Toyota are making a pointed comment to those negotiating that they'd better make sure the deal that is agreed suits Toyota.

[Sidney1st]

I suspect Toyota are making a pointed comment to those negotiating that they'd better make sure the deal that is agreed suits Toyota.

There was a meeting if I remember rightly between some of the Car companies and the government about Brexit.

Some on here took issue with it because it's possible there would be financial incentives to stay.

[Walton]

Just seen this

https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/a ... ssion=true

[Sidney1st]

Just seen this

https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/a ... ssion=true

But companies are worried that Britain's exit from the single market could lead to customs checks, trade barriers and tariffs which would push up costs and risk the long-term viability of their factories.

Yes there is a potential for this, BUT it's still an unknown and from the looks of that article the government are trying to minimise the issues.

However, executives had told the committee that some firms such as Honda are considering building extra warehouses and stockpiling parts to protect their operations from any delays as a result of Brexit, which would add cost.

This is good news isn't it?
More jobs etc.

BMW/Mini in Oxford only stocks a fews hours worth of stock I think it is and they're still committed to the UK, but I've no doubt they'll be putting pressure on to the Government to ensure any customs issues are minimal.

[dsr]

BMW/Mini in Oxford only stocks a fews hours worth of stock I think it is and they're still committed to the UK, but I've no doubt they'll be putting pressure on to the Government to ensure any customs issues are minimal.

The might want to put pressure on the government to stop it snowing, as well. There are other problems besides Brexit when it comes to "just in time" stock policies!

[dsr]

Actually, I wouldn't have thought there would be any difficulty in getting German companies to commit to UK factories. They're currently faced with a dual threat of falling Sterling and potential tariffs on their vast exports to the UK - there are significant cost savings to building them here.

[Pstotto]

England rules Grand Prix. They even design the Mercedes racing cars in England.

[Dejavu]

The only important bit of the article is this bit.
“With around 85% of our UK vehicle production exported to European markets, continued free and frictionless trade between the UK and Europe will be vital for future success.”

Which part of that do Brexiteers not get?

[Sidney1st]

I think they all get it, but the respective politicians need to get on with it.

Both sides know how important it is to get things negotiated, they just need to stop dicking around with the posturing and media soundbites and get on with it.

[dsr]

The only important bit of the article is this bit.
“With around 85% of our UK vehicle production exported to European markets, continued free and frictionless trade between the UK and Europe will be vital for future success.”

Which part of that do Brexiteers not get?

The bit where the German and other EU exporters are saying exactly the same? We import more cars than we export. Any tariffs, assuming the most ardent Remainers don't get their way, will be equal and opposite; so the negative and positive effects of the trade will balance each other out.

[Dejavu]

The bit where the German and other EU exporters are saying exactly the same? We import more cars than we export. Any tariffs, assuming the most ardent Remainers don't get their way, will be equal and opposite; so the negative and positive effects of the trade will balance each other out.

Absolute rubbish!!. The big car companies will move there production out of the UK unless they can be guaranteed free trade with the EU. They cannot sell cars built in the UK with a 15% tariff attached anywhere but the UK, where they wouldn't be subject to any tariffs. This is what the Toyota chief alluded to in the article.

We, on the other hand, will have no option but to import cars with tariffs attached made in the EU or further afield. The EU has recently agreed a free trade deal with Japan itself for that very reason. A deal that now makes it by far the largest trading block the World has ever seen.

But hey ho!! Least we got control back!! Akin to taking back control of The Titanic just before impact.

Everyone of us had better hope and pray that we get a free trade agreement with the EU. The ramifications if we don't will be disastrous.

[Dejavu]

Having said that, it is on the face of it good news but it comes with a big caveat.

[aggi]

The bit where the German and other EU exporters are saying exactly the same? We import more cars than we export. Any tariffs, assuming the most ardent Remainers don't get their way, will be equal and opposite; so the negative and positive effects of the trade will balance each other out.

Are there are any European manufacturers who are exporting 85% of their manufacturing to the UK?

[nil_desperandum]

The only important bit of the article is this bit.
“With around 85% of our UK vehicle production exported to European markets, continued free and frictionless trade between the UK and Europe will be vital for future success.”

Which part of that do Brexiteers not get?

I think it's looking increasingly clear after all the recent developments and announcements that we are now looking at either the "softest" of brexits, the longest of transistions, or no brexit at all.
The new Labour position on the Customs Union supported by business and MPs from other parties; the fact that Theresa May daren't risk losing a commons vote on this issue, and the Irish border issue being totally incompatible with leaving and reverting to WTO rules, all suggest this.
Businesses generally support this, political heavyweights are coming out to say it, and foreign manufacturers seem to be taking decisions based on this assumption. It will also hold the UK together.
Let's see what Mrs May has to say tomorrow, and how JRM, IDS, Cash, Bone, Jenkin and Redwood respond. She may finally have to stand up to them.

[dsr]

I think it's looking increasingly clear after all the recent developments and announcements that we are now looking at either the "softest" of brexits, the longest of transistions, or no brexit at all.
The new Labour position on the Customs Union supported by business and MPs from other parties; the fact that Theresa May daren't risk losing a commons vote on this issue, and the Irish border issue being totally incompatible with leaving and reverting to WTO rules, all suggest this.
Businesses generally support this, political heavyweights are coming out to say it, and foreign manufacturers seem to be taking decisions based on this assumption. It will also hold the UK together.
Let's see what Mrs May has to say tomorrow, and how JRM, IDS, Cash, Bone, Jenkin and Redwood respond. She may finally have to stand up to them.

Mrs. May can't say that Northern Ireland will be cast aside and treated as no longer part of the UK. Her government (supported by the DUP) couldn't survive that. So the EU has backed her into a corner there - they will have to drop that demand or there will be no deal.

[dsr]

Are there are any European manufacturers who are exporting 85% of their manufacturing to the UK?

No, but nmanufacturers don't have the same mindset as the EU. The EU leaders can and do say that the UK will suffer more than the EU in a trade war, because we have relatively more to lose; individual companies don't work that way.

So BMW won't say that we're only losing 15% of our sales, Toyota are losing 85%, so they don't care. They do care, and they want to keep those sales.

[dsr]

Absolute rubbish!!. The big car companies will move there production out of the UK unless they can be guaranteed free trade with the EU. They cannot sell cars built in the UK with a 15% tariff attached anywhere but the UK, where they wouldn't be subject to any tariffs. This is what the Toyota chief alluded to in the article.

We, on the other hand, will have no option but to import cars with tariffs attached made in the EU or further afield. The EU has recently agreed a free trade deal with Japan itself for that very reason. A deal that now makes it by far the largest trading block the World has ever seen.

But hey ho!! Least we got control back!! Akin to taking back control of The Titanic just before impact.

Everyone of us had better hope and pray that we get a free trade agreement with the EU. The ramifications if we don't will be disastrous.

So what you're saying is, that UK car manufacturers will have to move abroad because the tariffs will make it uneconomic to sell cars to the EU, but no car manufacturers will move into the UK because the tariffs won't make a blind bit of difference?

[Sidney1st]

There's a real possibility if we change our minds about Brexit we lose something in return with the EU.
Like a punishment for daring to leave.

[Lancasterclaret]

I think its very risky indeed to play poker when all you've got is a pair of fives.

Regarding the no deal scenario, its fairly obvious now that Conservative MPs (particularly in seats in London and around it) are thinking slightly more long term than Brexit.

Mays speech tomorrow has to be a humdinger to pull this back now. If she just blames the EU for everything they will (quite correctly) point out that the UK Govt agreed to all this less than three months ago to make sure the negotiations moved on to trade.

[Dejavu]

So what you're saying is, that UK car manufacturers will have to move abroad because the tariffs will make it uneconomic to sell cars to the EU, but no car manufacturers will move into the UK because the tariffs won't make a blind bit of difference?

By George!! I think he's got it....

[Pstotto]

We import from the Eu more than we export, we hold the aces and in the car industry. Just say no to BMW, MERCS etc. and we'll win. One month of refusing China's exports and they are over. Simple. Japan too. In a war of attrition regarding stoicism we would win. The only problem is we're running out of Russian gas.

If it REALLY got down to a trade war and a real war at that, it's just who can sit tight the longest. How much profits from the car industry here, actually stay here?

Don't forget money is a concept, goods aren't.

[Walton]

Deluded

[aggi]

No, but nmanufacturers don't have the same mindset as the EU. The EU leaders can and do say that the UK will suffer more than the EU in a trade war, because we have relatively more to lose; individual companies don't work that way.

So BMW won't say that we're only losing 15% of our sales, Toyota are losing 85%, so they don't care. They do care, and they want to keep those sales.

The manufacturers don't get the final say though. In the above scenario the upshot will be that BMW will only lose have 15% of their sales impacted and so will carry on. Toyota will have 85% of their sales impacted and will look at how to mitigate that (the most obvious solution being to move the factory).

[Quickenthetempo]

It would be cheaper to pay the car plant employes wages than all the hand outs they have received. Get shut of them.

[beddie]

"Deluded". Typical remainer comment, the usual doom and gloom. There's not going to be a second vote despite the continuous gloomy picture that you remainers are longing for.

[nil_desperandum]

Mrs. May can't say that Northern Ireland will be cast aside and treated as no longer part of the UK. Her government (supported by the DUP) couldn't survive that. So the EU has backed her into a corner there - they will have to drop that demand or there will be no deal.

Or - as I suggested will now most likely be the case, there will be a consensus that the UK remains in the Customs Union. Far more likely than a No deal which means reverting to WTO rules and a hard border - which DUP won't back.

[Lancasterclaret]

No evidence

Nothing but attacks on people who bring up inconvenient facts

Welcome to the UK 2018

Anyone think marching towards the sound of the national anthem is magically going to solve everything?