The most concerning financial journo article yet!

[Vegas Claret]

I don’t see how & why the newspapers would print lies without legal problems.

did you really jut type that ???

[Jakubclaret]

did you really jut type that ???

I did I hear about people suing newspapers all the time & receiving settlements for lies printed in our case you couldn’t come across a more tame response if you tried.

[Vegas Claret]

I did I hear about people suing newspapers all the time & receiving settlements for lies printed in our case you couldn’t come across a more tame response if you tried.

either way, I'm 100% sure we both agree that we hope they have a plan that wont leave us in ruins.

[ClaretPete001]

Brom appointed a poor manager yet are still in the play off hunt. Jokanovic didn’t work at Sheff and the owners there seem to be causing problems, yet they are still very much in the play off hunt. Fulham have ripped the Champ with a decent squad yet Mitrovic couldn’t hit a barn door in the PL and he’s breaking scoring records!

I’d hope we give Dyche a go as he’s proven to have great success already and I feel the owners will want someone like that. I agree we need a rebuild, also to freshen up the ‘mentality’ Dyche so often talks about. But a team of

New
Roberts Collins Mee Taylor
New Westwood Brownhill New
Weghorst New

Bench:
Hennessey, Lowton, Thomas, Lennon, Jay Rod, Long, JBG, Cork
+
Youth to promote
Dodgson (LB), Mancini Gomez (CM) Richardson (striker)

Assuming Cornet / McNeil / Pope are sold in the summer for £60m-70m combined. Release Pieters, Barnes, Bardsley, Stephens. Vydra and Tark won’t resign.

The above, with around 4-5 young and hungry signings to fill the places in the 11 would be a very solid team under Dyche in the Championship. Obviously this is all based on assumptions right now.

Good post but you need to factor in a few points.

1) Cornet / Mc Neil / Pope are valued at £44 million on transfermarket

2) The revenue from TV money is around £113 million out of £134

3) The club would lose over £51 million in year 1 reducing turnover to around £83 million and to maintain wage to turnover integrity you would have to reduce the wage bill from its current £94 million to around £58 million.

4) Any contracts you offered would have to bear in mind that the club is going to lose another £62 million in years 2 and 3 with the wage bill reducing from £94 million to around £15 million in 3 years (13 million is 134 - 113 * 70 %). We all know it would be worse than this because we haven't factored in the loss of match day revenue etc

As a responsible chairman what would you do with the £44 million you receive for Pope, Neil and Cornet now bearing in mind that the 9 players you have earmarked to lose may not equate to the £36 million required to maintain the structural integrity of the wages. And you are going to lose over £113 million in 3 years out of a turnover of £134 million.

[ClaretPete001]

Oh and I forgot when you've got to the point where you've figured out what to do knock off another £6 - £10 million management charges to your holding company to pay off their loan repayments to MSD and pay outs to former owners etc.

[KRBFC]

I don't really want to take this thread away from what it is but this losing most weeks is not really true is it? We've lost one more game than West Ham who are currently fourth. Of the other teams in the bottom half of the league, only Palace have lost less.

Now onto the last time we were in the Championship and being appalling for the first four months. Having lost at Ipswich in mid-August, we won 9, drew 2 and lost 1 of the next 12 which doesn't sound too appalling to me. We were second in the table. And we drew the next three. We were soundly beaten at Hull, just our fifth defeat of the season and our last defeat of the season. The one defeat in that early run was against Reading after which we dropped to sixth. We were never that low in the table again. Not sure at all how you could consider that appalling.

You're right about us not losing most weeks, However not winning becomes a hard habit to shake, we've seen it many times before.

[Vegas Claret]

Good post but you need to factor in a few points.

1) Cornet / Mc Neil / Pope are valued at £44 million on transfermarket

2) The revenue from TV money is around £113 million out of £134

3) The club would lose over £51 million in year 1 reducing turnover to around £83 million and to maintain wage to turnover integrity you would have to reduce the wage bill from its current £94 million to around £58 million.

4) Any contracts you offered would have to bear in mind that the club is going to lose another £62 million in years 2 and 3 with the wage bill reducing from £94 million to around £15 million in 3 years (13 million is 134 - 113 * 70 %). We all know it would be worse than this because we haven't factored in the loss of match day revenue etc

As a responsible chairman what would you do with the £44 million you receive for Pope, Neil and Cornet now bearing in mind that the 9 players you have earmarked to lose may not equate to the £36 million required to maintain the structural integrity of the wages. And you are going to lose over £113 million in 3 years out of a turnover of £134 million.

I know you are quoting transfer market but to suggest that 44 million for those 3 is close to being accurate is pretty laughable by them - Norwich sold Ben Godfrey for 40 million to Everton and he's gash. Just my opinion of course !

[Jakubclaret]

I know you are quoting transfer market but to suggest that 44 million for those 3 is close to being accurate is pretty laughable by them - Norwich sold Ben Godfrey for 40 million to Everton and he's gash. Just my opinion of course !

When the club is desperate for cash & the players are desperate to leave the valuations aren’t as high as you’d think & then you have to think of how longs left on their contracts, our decent players stand out so much in our team it gives off the false impression they are better than there really there put them into a Wolves or Southampton it’s pretty much ordinary & less noticeable than here, apart from cornet who’s come in & impressed nobody else really has done anything to pull enough interest in to generate high valuations it’s average at the very best.

[Vegas Claret]

When the club is desperate for cash & the players are desperate to leave the valuations aren’t as high as you’d think & then you have to think of how longs left on their contracts, our decent players stand out so much in our team it gives off the false impression they are better than there really there put them into a Wolves or Southampton it’s pretty much ordinary & less noticeable than here, apart from cornet who’s come in & impressed nobody else really has done anything to pull enough interest in to generate high valuations it’s average at the very best.

that as it maybe, bang average players are going for stupid money as usual. I would say the 44 number is conservatively 10-12 short.

[RVclaret]

Good post but you need to factor in a few points.

1) Cornet / Mc Neil / Pope are valued at £44 million on transfermarket

2) The revenue from TV money is around £113 million out of £134

3) The club would lose over £51 million in year 1 reducing turnover to around £83 million and to maintain wage to turnover integrity you would have to reduce the wage bill from its current £94 million to around £58 million.

4) Any contracts you offered would have to bear in mind that the club is going to lose another £62 million in years 2 and 3 with the wage bill reducing from £94 million to around £15 million in 3 years (13 million is 134 - 113 * 70 %). We all know it would be worse than this because we haven't factored in the loss of match day revenue etc

As a responsible chairman what would you do with the £44 million you receive for Pope, Neil and Cornet now bearing in mind that the 9 players you have earmarked to lose may not equate to the £36 million required to maintain the structural integrity of the wages. And you are going to lose over £113 million in 3 years out of a turnover of £134 million.

1. I don’t rely on transfermarket for player valuations. More so what has been reported in the media / use comparables. McNeil 20-25, Pope 15-20 and Cornet (if he finds his form again) around 20m. Plus there’s a few others like Taylor who someone might come in for.

2. Yep quite right.

3. Is that £94m also including bonus’ paid for the league position finish the prior season? If so, it would probably be a bit lower assuming we went down as I doubt players and management have relegation bonus’.

Then I’d have to find our accounts from our last relegation and see how much our wage bill decreased from the Prem - Champ to make a better forecast but I’d imagine that £58m you mention wouldn’t be far off with relegation wage cuts. That’s around 35% cut across the board, it might even be a bit more than that in reality. Dyche won’t be anywhere near the current 75k a week, he might even have a 50/60% cut. We were still able to pay the likes of Barton and Gray, who I can’t imagine would have been cheap at that level. I’d assume that the same management structure would have kept the same wage clauses throughout their time here.

Plus there are 10 OOC players so it’s in our hands with that one. The ones we want to keep we offer them Champ rate wages, it’s highly unlikely anyone else who wants them would beat our offer. Some will be let go which also helps cut the wage bill.

4. Yep fair but same could be said the last time we went down but Dyche was still backed with the signings of Gray - Barton.

So overall, all hypothetical of course here, we could still end up with a similar revenue to what we have now (factoring in player sales) but with a wage bill of 40% less. That leaves more than enough to make a £6m interest payment (I’ll leave it at that without knowing if other debts have to be repaid by Burnley or ALK & groups). Don’t forget there’s the £13m from Chris Wood sale too that wasn’t spent in Jan.

All of that should allow a decent rebuild of the team without going ‘over budget’ in that league. As my post suggested, 4-5 new players won’t break the bank (may include a loan or two), would give us one of the strongest squads in the league, with arguably the best manager in the league.

Before my next post I’ll try to find how much our wage bill decreased following our last relegation as that should give some indication.

[claretonthecoast1882]

transfer market

According to that site Tarks is valued at almost 20m so lets sell him at the end of the season, likewise Mee for 4m we can even get 1.25m for Stephens


How to destroy your own credit in 1 go

[RVclaret]

To folow up on my previous post, I looked at whether we had wage cuts the last time we were relegated. The accounts from promotion (year ending June 2016) suggest a wage bill in the Championship of 27m v 29.5m in the PL the season before. Turnover at that time reduced from 78m in the PL to 40m in the Champ. We then broke our transfer record with Gray and signed Barton, recording a 3m loss the season we went up.

This got me thinking, as clearly there's not a significant wage cut there. But then again I thought, it's likely most of them wouldn't have had new contracts in that one PL season to insert any clauses, so it's possible/probable contracts remained largely unchanged. Our most recent spell in the PL would be different, as the majority have since been acquired / signed new deals over a 6 year period. I tried to find comments made by Garlick / Dyche / anyone regarding wage cut clauses in our players contracts but yet haven't done so. But it has been suggested/reported I am sure of it, perhaps someone can find out where?

But what I did find in the searches was comments made by Steve Bruce when he was at Hull and they were looking likely to drop:

"Everybody concerned takes a huge reduction in salary. The club has had a really, really stringent policy so that if we do get relegated the club doesn't fall into drastic times which a lot of clubs do.

"Most players take a 40 and 50 per cent reduction in their salary which is key throughout it all."

I understand we are talking about a different club here but with our known stringency, I wouldn't be surprised if we are in line with the above too. I also found reports from when Arsenal were struggling and relegation was discussed, it seems even they have clauses in players contracts for a 25% wage cut.

[Newcastleclaret93]

To folow up on my previous post, I looked at whether we had wage cuts the last time we were relegated. The accounts from promotion (year ending June 2016) suggest a wage bill in the Championship of 27m v 29.5m in the PL the season before. Turnover at that time reduced from 78m in the PL to 40m in the Champ. We then broke our transfer record with Gray and signed Barton, recording a 3m loss the season we went up.

This got me thinking, as clearly there's not a significant wage cut there. But then again I thought, it's likely most of them wouldn't have had new contracts in that one PL season to insert any clauses, so it's possible/probable contracts remained largely unchanged. Our most recent spell in the PL would be different, as the majority have since been acquired / signed new deals over a 6 year period. I tried to find comments made by Garlick / Dyche / anyone regarding wage cut clauses in our players contracts but yet haven't done so. But it has been suggested/reported I am sure of it, perhaps someone can find out where?

But what I did find in the searches was comments made by Steve Bruce when he was at Hull and they were looking likely to drop:

"Everybody concerned takes a huge reduction in salary. The club has had a really, really stringent policy so that if we do get relegated the club doesn't fall into drastic times which a lot of clubs do.

"Most players take a 40 and 50 per cent reduction in their salary which is key throughout it all."

I understand we are talking about a different club here but with our known stringency, I wouldn't be surprised if we are in line with the above too. I also found reports from when Arsenal were struggling and relegation was discussed, it seems even they have clauses in players contracts for a 25% wage cut.

I think in any case wages won’t really matter as half the squad is leaving in the summer anyway. So we can sign players on a fraction of there wages if need be.

[RVclaret]

I think in any case wages won’t really matter as half the squad is leaving in the summer anyway. So we can sign players on a fraction of there wages if need be.

Yep precisely, mentioned that in the previous post.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Yep precisely, mentioned that in the previous post.

My concern is more related to the massive rebuild. Where are the fund going to come from to sign 7-8 players this summer (at a minimum).

unless we decide to promote from the youth, which I wouldn’t be against to be honest.

[TheFamilyCat]

My concern is more related to the massive rebuild. Where are the fund going to come from to sign 7-8 players this summer (at a minimum).

unless we decide to promote from the youth, which I wouldn’t be against to be honest.

Haven't you answered your own question two posts up?

[RVclaret]

My concern is more related to the massive rebuild. Where are the fund going to come from to sign 7-8 players this summer (at a minimum).

unless we decide to promote from the youth, which I wouldn’t be against to be honest.

I think it’s dependant on player sales. I think a few PL clubs will come sniffing for our key players at slight discounts. Example, Villa and Everton were both said to be keen on McNeil in the last windows but at £20m rather than our £30m+ valuation, perhaps they get him for the 20 now. Then Pope, I wouldn’t be shocked to see Newcastle come in for him, proven quality Prem keeper, Ramsdale went for £35m last season so I think expecting at least 15m for Pope isn’t far off. Then there’s MC who, if he keeps up his scoring record, would definitely have suitors in the PL or abroad.

Plus, as you say, 3-4 of the youth can be promoted - I suggested Dodgson to replace Pieters, Richardson for Barnes and Mancini Gomez for Stephens.

[NewClaret]

I think it’s dependant on player sales. I think a few PL clubs will come sniffing for our key players at slight discounts. Example, Villa and Everton were both said to be keen on McNeil in the last windows but at £20m rather than our £30m+ valuation, perhaps they get him for the 20 now. Then Pope, I wouldn’t be shocked to see Newcastle come in for him, proven quality Prem keeper, Ramsdale went for £35m last season so I think expecting at least 15m for Pope isn’t far off. Then there’s MC who, if he keeps up his scoring record, would definitely have suitors in the PL or abroad.

Plus, as you say, 3-4 of the youth can be promoted - I suggested Dodgson to replace Pieters, Richardson for Barnes and Mancini Gomez for Stephens.

I’ll be furious if we let Pope go for £15m. Not a penny less than Ramsdale went for.

Dwight I’m unsure. If he ends the season well, I’d say we should be looking for £30m+ given his age and potential, but, let’s face it, his form this season may have put off potential suitors spending big.

I think Taylor will attract attention and maybe others. West Ham & Leeds were rumoured to be interested in Brownhill last summer & if his recent form continues he’ll be in demand. Cornet and Weghorst will probably have relegation clauses.

I think a lot of teams will look at our players as having good PL experience and being part of a well organised, disciplined side (that hasn’t lost very often) so I think a most will have offers/options.

We must hold the cards though - they’re under contract and ultimately our best chance of promotion. I accept some will need to be sold but I hope we don’t need to decimate the squad in year one as they’re our best chance of bouncing back.

The key thing is that we need a good pre-season and to hit the ground running. We can’t have the players minds elsewhere until September or sulking thereafter, so we need to agree who we are prepared to sell, at what price and set a final deadline after which they remain.

[RVclaret]

I’ll be furious if we let Pope go for £15m. Not a penny less than Ramsdale went for.

Dwight I’m unsure. If he ends the season well, I’d say we should be looking for £30m+ given his age and potential, but, let’s face it, his form this season may have put off potential suitors spending big.

I think Taylor will attract attention and maybe others. West Ham & Leeds were rumoured to be interested in Brownhill last summer & if his recent form continues he’ll be in demand. Cornet and Weghorst will probably have relegation clauses.

I think a lot of teams will look at our players as having good PL experience and being part of a well organised, disciplined side (that hasn’t lost very often) so I think a most will have offers/options.

We must hold the cards though - they’re under contract and ultimately our best chance of promotion. I accept some will need to be sold but I hope we don’t need to decimate the squad in year one as they’re our best chance of bouncing back.

The key thing is that we need a good pre-season and to hit the ground running. We can’t have the players minds elsewhere until September or sulking thereafter, so we need to agree who we are prepared to sell, at what price and set a final deadline after which they remain.

Ramsdale younger and more attractive for a top team due to his ability with ball at feet. Pope nearing 30 and while an excellent keeper, isn’t good with ball at feet. Plus you are highlighting what prices we could ‘hold out for’, whereas I think in order to do the rebuild we need + balance the books we might need to accept some lower than wanted prices for a few.

Like I said above, if we can pull in 60/70m in player sales from 3 players, it would give us almost the same income we have now (ok I know transfers rarely get paid upfront etc) after the wage bill sees a huge chop. Would allow for a decent rebuild IMO.

[Devils_Advocate]

which in itself is bonkers, if Burnley aren't successful then there is no way ALK will be

The scenario where ALK's plans could be good for them but potentially bad for the club is if they throw all the parachute payments at trying to get back in the Premier League and not reducing any debt and keeping a very high wage bill and big contracts.

This could be the best risk/reward strategy for ALK to risk their £15m investment to get back in the Premier League where they can make money. If they are successful everybody's happy but if they fail then they still just lose the £15m whilst our club could be left as a financial basket case.

As you say in this thread nobody knows what their strategy will be and its all guesswork but this imo is definitely one strategy they might take which makes sense for their position but could be disastrous for the club

[Chester Perry]

To folow up on my previous post, I looked at whether we had wage cuts the last time we were relegated. The accounts from promotion (year ending June 2016) suggest a wage bill in the Championship of 27m v 29.5m in the PL the season before. Turnover at that time reduced from 78m in the PL to 40m in the Champ. We then broke our transfer record with Gray and signed Barton, recording a 3m loss the season we went up.

This got me thinking, as clearly there's not a significant wage cut there. But then again I thought, it's likely most of them wouldn't have had new contracts in that one PL season to insert any clauses, so it's possible/probable contracts remained largely unchanged. Our most recent spell in the PL would be different, as the majority have since been acquired / signed new deals over a 6 year period. I tried to find comments made by Garlick / Dyche / anyone regarding wage cut clauses in our players contracts but yet haven't done so. But it has been suggested/reported I am sure of it, perhaps someone can find out where?

But what I did find in the searches was comments made by Steve Bruce when he was at Hull and they were looking likely to drop:

"Everybody concerned takes a huge reduction in salary. The club has had a really, really stringent policy so that if we do get relegated the club doesn't fall into drastic times which a lot of clubs do.

"Most players take a 40 and 50 per cent reduction in their salary which is key throughout it all."

I understand we are talking about a different club here but with our known stringency, I wouldn't be surprised if we are in line with the above too. I also found reports from when Arsenal were struggling and relegation was discussed, it seems even they have clauses in players contracts for a 25% wage cut.

much of this discussion has taken place once already on this thread - and as for relegation clauses

It is in the accounts (every year) detailed as a the key mitigation against the single biggest risk - relegation and subsequent reduction of biggest revenue generator -(TV money) and given that our single biggest annual expense is wages

[aggi]

Specifically

Screenshot 2022-02-16 124507.png (30.78 KiB) Viewed 2268 times

Also, it is widely reported (including in the financial statements) that our salaries have hefty bonuses incorporated. A relegation season would have a lower baseline salary than £94m.

[RVclaret]

Specifically

Screenshot 2022-02-16 124507.png

Also, it is widely reported (including in the financial statements) that our salaries have hefty bonuses incorporated. A relegation season would have a lower baseline salary than £94m.

Thanks - exactly what I was getting at in my reply to ClaretPete.

[ClaretPete001]

To folow up on my previous post, I looked at whether we had wage cuts the last time we were relegated. The accounts from promotion (year ending June 2016) suggest a wage bill in the Championship of 27m v 29.5m in the PL the season before. Turnover at that time reduced from 78m in the PL to 40m in the Champ. We then broke our transfer record with Gray and signed Barton, recording a 3m loss the season we went up.

This got me thinking, as clearly there's not a significant wage cut there. But then again I thought, it's likely most of them wouldn't have had new contracts in that one PL season to insert any clauses, so it's possible/probable contracts remained largely unchanged. Our most recent spell in the PL would be different, as the majority have since been acquired / signed new deals over a 6 year period. I tried to find comments made by Garlick / Dyche / anyone regarding wage cut clauses in our players contracts but yet haven't done so. But it has been suggested/reported I am sure of it, perhaps someone can find out where?

But what I did find in the searches was comments made by Steve Bruce when he was at Hull and they were looking likely to drop:

"Everybody concerned takes a huge reduction in salary. The club has had a really, really stringent policy so that if we do get relegated the club doesn't fall into drastic times which a lot of clubs do.

"Most players take a 40 and 50 per cent reduction in their salary which is key throughout it all."

I understand we are talking about a different club here but with our known stringency, I wouldn't be surprised if we are in line with the above too. I also found reports from when Arsenal were struggling and relegation was discussed, it seems even they have clauses in players contracts for a 25% wage cut.

Again great post RV. I absolutely don't want to pollute this forum with negativity but I do expect some reality to the posts so it's good that you try to look at it in more meaningful detail. I think you are too optimistic and I present what I think is a more realistic pessimism - the truth, I hope, is in the middle.

You are right it's a totally different ball game now. We went down after one season in the Premiership with a lot of players on Championship contracts. We now have a Premiership business with all the associated costs, which means the wage bill is £94 million (as opposed to the £29million you cite). And we were relegated having made £30 million worth of profit in the premiership. That won't be the case this time.

When you are negotiating with players you will be offering 3 year contracts. At the end of those contracts, your wage structure will be down from £58 million to less than £30 million and the year after that around £13 million (year 4). So, any contracts you offer would have to fit into a wage bill of less than £30 million and in years 2 and 3 after relegation any contracts you offer would have to fit into a 13 million structure at that point to accommodate the final year of the new contracts you offer.

And that does not even account for the up to £10 million loan repayments (or more if there is a capital element to the former owners pay out).

And as for Steve Bruce. This is the reality of the Hull story. In some ways it does offer some hope because the club survives it all, which is the main thing.....!

42 million owed to a wealthy benefactor (albeit Allem is small beer compared to many in the Championship.)

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/f ... ly-4590465

Club still selling players years after relegation to cope with the loss of the parachute payments

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/f ... es-4623493

Sale of club for around £30 million

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/f ... re-6662728

https://insidersport.com/2022/01/20/hul ... 20takeover

[ClaretPete001]

much of this discussion has taken place once already on this thread - and as for relegation clauses

Indeed but as I guess you know there is a reality to this ...

Forget football and just look at it from a business perspective. How many businesses can lose £113 million out of £134 million in 3 years and at the same time add £10 million quid's worth of loan repayments and not be in serious trouble?

Most clubs you look at, of our size, have had problems regardless of relegation clauses even with the support of wealthy benefactors.

How can anyone with any experience of business look at the structure of the English football pyramid and not wonder how does this all carry on?

Increasingly it really is a billionaires big swinging dick contest with no underlying business reality to all but about 8 clubs who can become global brands.

Anyway as you say - it's all been said now and I'm tired of my own boringly dreary negativity - it's time to move on......!

[Vegas Claret]

The scenario where ALK's plans could be good for them but potentially bad for the club is if they throw all the parachute payments at trying to get back in the Premier League and not reducing any debt and keeping a very high wage bill and big contracts.

This could be the best risk/reward strategy for ALK to risk their £15m investment to get back in the Premier League where they can make money. If they are successful everybody's happy but if they fail then they still just lose the £15m whilst our club could be left as a financial basket case.

As you say in this thread nobody knows what their strategy will be and its all guesswork but this imo is definitely one strategy they might take which makes sense for their position but could be disastrous for the club

Well assuming there are large wage reductions in place on relegation that should help out massively with wages - all that would have been put in place by Garlick (I'm assuming this is why we've not seen Ben sign his new deal yet either). Not everyone will get a new offer for sure, but yes, should your scenario be correct there would be problems.

[GaryClaret]

Indeed but as I guess you know there is a reality to this ...

How can anyone with any experience of business look at the structure of the English football pyramid and not wonder how does this all carry on?

Increasingly it really is a billionaires big swinging dick contest with no underlying business reality to all but about 8 clubs who can become global brands.

This was highlighted by an opinion column in The Times yesterday written by Henry Winter. The headline was "Time for Wolves owners to offer Bruno Lage real backing". He spends the first part of the article talking about Max Kilman being a great buy that would bring a "tidy return".

"They're seventh with a small squad, so Fosun feels vindicated in its strategy. Lage is a victim of his own success."

He describes how the ownership did things on the cheap in the latest transfer window. They made money from selling Traore. "Lage is doing remarkable things given he has a weaker squad now than when the January window opened".

So this is a club where they are sort of trying to bring in players for x and sell them for bigger money e.g. Jota. And yet Winter says "Lage deserves more support from Fosun". "That Wolves are even being mentioned in the race for fourth shows how well Lage has done. It would be a crying shame, and a missed opportunity, if Fosun's failure to back Lage in January results in Wolves running out of legs in the run-in."

Lage has only been manager since last Summer and it's like "give him a war chest". Who knows what'll happen for the rest of this and next season? The tight games they're in might start to go the other way. And more to your point ClaretPete001 - how on earth can Wolves ever compete with clubs owned by the ridiculously rich? There is just no sense of realism to how a club should be run in this daft sport.

[Chester Perry]

This is a more appropriate article looking at the complications of not having a benefactor

https://theathletic.com/3130748/2022/02 ... ign=601983

as ever there is no mention of the distortion that UEFA Club competitions give to finances

plus there is still the latent threat of Parachutes being reduced/replaced as of next season

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... lator.html

[Vegas Claret]

Increasingly it really is a billionaires big swinging dick contest with no underlying business reality to all but about 8 clubs who can become global brands.

spot on !!!!!

There was a segment on Talk Sport today where they were comparing Pep to Klopp - the stats were for every 1 point Manchester City have gained it has cost them 667K (Liverpool under Klopp was 243k). How do teams compete with that kind of spending power/wastage ? !!!!

[Devils_Advocate]

Well assuming there are large wage reductions in place on relegation that should help out massively with wages - all that would have been put in place by Garlick (I'm assuming this is why we've not seen Ben sign his new deal yet either). Not everyone will get a new offer for sure, but yes, should your scenario be correct there would be problems.

Yep, I think the wage reductions will be in place and with the right approach we can easily transition into a financially stable Championship football club (but we wont be making profits). I have faith that this is the approach ALK will take and even if we take a conservative approach we will have a decent chance of bouncing back in years 1 and 2.

It has not been relegation from the Premier League that has caused the financial issues with other clubs but the reckless way clubs have bet the ranch chasing promotion to the Premier League and ultimately failing.

I think we'll be fine but for me the discussion about us suddenly being in a dire financial position just because of relegation is a red herring as its how ALK approach life in the Championship and do they consolidate or do the go for broke to get back up that is the real question

[GodIsADeeJay81]

spot on !!!!!

There was a segment on Talk Sport today where they were comparing Pep to Klopp - the stats were for every 1 point Manchester City have gained it has cost them 667K (Liverpool under Klopp was 243k). How do teams compete with that kind of spending power/wastage ? !!!!

That was an interesting discussion overall, but I half expected KRBFC to phone up defending his beloved Pep

[aggi]

Yep, I think the wage reductions will be in place and with the right approach we can easily transition into a financially stable Championship football club (but we wont be making profits). I have faith that this is the approach ALK will take and even if we take a conservative approach we will have a decent chance of bouncing back in years 1 and 2.

It has not been relegation from the Premier League that has caused the financial issues with other clubs but the reckless way clubs have bet the ranch chasing promotion to the Premier League and ultimately failing.

I think we'll be fine but for me the discussion about us suddenly being in a dire financial position just because of relegation is a red herring as its how ALK approach life in the Championship and do they consolidate or do the go for broke to get back up that is the real question

That would actually be quite an achievement. Very few clubs even manage to break even in the Championship and barely any make an operating profit. The only way to do it is with clever player trading and keeping that going year on year is obviously tough.

[Devils_Advocate]

That would actually be quite an achievement. Very few clubs even manage to break even in the Championship and barely any make an operating profit. The only way to do it is with clever player trading and keeping that going year on year is obviously tough.

Just to clarify, I am talking about transitioning using the parachute payments to keep the wage bill aligned to the revenue. Ultimately this would probably lead us to being a very weak Championship team and probably see us drop further down the leagues unless as you say we do some very good player trading and/or get another Dyche who can get promotion or keep us in the Championship with a budget team.

Earlier in the thread I stated longer term if we stay in the Championship (or lower) ALK will likely lose their £15m anyhow because just breaking even is very hard and thats why I see a risk that it might be in ALK's interests to just throw every bit of the parachute payments and TV money at quickly bouncing back into the Premier League and thats when you can end up like a Derby or Sunderland

[ClaretPete001]

Just to clarify, I am talking about transitioning using the parachute payments to keep the wage bill aligned to the revenue. Ultimately this would probably lead us to being a very weak Championship team and probably see us drop further down the leagues unless as you say we do some very good player trading and/or get another Dyche who can get promotion or keep us in the Championship with a budget team.

Earlier in the thread I stated longer term if we stay in the Championship (or lower) ALK will likely lose their £15m anyhow because just breaking even is very hard and thats why I see a risk that it might be in ALK's interests to just throw every bit of the parachute payments and TV money at quickly bouncing back into the Premier League and thats when you can end up like a Derby or Sunderland

Absolutely right there is a conflict of interest. It is certainly not in ALKs, MSDs or the former owners interests to see an orderly transition to a Championship club because: (1) the loan repayments are too high for ALK to maintain (2) MSD would not want to see an erosion of the intangible assets that are securing their loan (3) the former owners want their £68 million.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

That would actually be quite an achievement. Very few clubs even manage to break even in the Championship and barely any make an operating profit. The only way to do it is with clever player trading and keeping that going year on year is obviously tough.

Reports today that along with Bristol City, up to 7 other clubs are facing points deductions for next season due to poor Financial management/failing to meet FFP.

Shows just how much pressure clubs feel they're under to overpay their players to get them to sign and to try and push for promotion

[RVclaret]

Reports today that along with Bristol City, up to 7 other clubs are facing points deductions for next season due to poor Financial management/failing to meet FFP.

Shows just how much pressure clubs feel they're under to overpay their players to get them to sign and to try and push for promotion

It’s just awful management. These are the same clubs that reject £10m+ bids for some of their players. Watch Forest be one of them 7, despite rejecting an £18m bid from Brentford for Johnson in Jan. Bristol City haven’t even made the play offs I don’t think?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It’s just awful management. These are the same clubs that reject £10m+ bids for some of their players. Watch Forest be one of them 7, despite rejecting an £18m bid from Brentford for Johnson in Jan. Bristol City haven’t even made the play offs I don’t think?

Yeah I recall Forest and/or Birmingham rejecting offers despite being in a financial mess

[claretonthecoast1882]

Reports today that along with Bristol City, up to 7 other clubs are facing points deductions for next season due to poor Financial management/failing to meet FFP.

Shows just how much pressure clubs feel they're under to overpay their players to get them to sign and to try and push for promotion

Not great news for those who are peddling the we will go down next season as well if this is the case

[Lancasterclaret]

Not great news for those who are peddling the we will go down next season as well if this is the case

Not good news at all if you have a pension with Hargreaves Lansdown if that is how they runs a football club

[ClaretPete001]

Not good news at all if you have a pension with Hargreaves Lansdown if that is how they runs a football club

I got stiffed on the Neil Woodward fiasco so.....! Course investment companies are always extremely professional except when a fund is tanking and they keep on recommending it to gullible tw*ts from East Lancashire.

[aggi]

Just to clarify, I am talking about transitioning using the parachute payments to keep the wage bill aligned to the revenue. Ultimately this would probably lead us to being a very weak Championship team and probably see us drop further down the leagues unless as you say we do some very good player trading and/or get another Dyche who can get promotion or keep us in the Championship with a budget team.

Earlier in the thread I stated longer term if we stay in the Championship (or lower) ALK will likely lose their £15m anyhow because just breaking even is very hard and thats why I see a risk that it might be in ALK's interests to just throw every bit of the parachute payments and TV money at quickly bouncing back into the Premier League and thats when you can end up like a Derby or Sunderland

Right, that would obviously be more achievable.

As you say, the risk there is that the best chance for us to go up is just after we've been relegated and if we don't take it then it will be tough to do so from a standing start.

We got lucky with Coyle coming in but with Cotterill we were really stagnating whilst the wage bill was ever growing (it was over 100% of revenue when he left). If we spend a few seasons in the Championship then ALK will really have to work to make sure that doesn't happen to us.

The flip side is obviously if it doesn't work and the owners cut support and you end up with bankruptcies, points deductions, etc. ALK will really have to work to make sure that doesn't happen to us either.