Brexit Food Shortages

[aggi]

Here is the company that carried out that analysis....



Set up in 2017, works on behalf of the EU and is based at the EU!

Well they are based in the EU, that's true. More specifically they're based in London. Not trusting anything in the UK because it's based in the EU must be tough.

[Devils_Advocate]

There seem to be a couple of groups....

Remainers: Want us to remain, but have accepted the result of the Ref and have moved on.

Staunch remainers: Still coming to terms with the referendum result, still hoping we remain and still debate and argue for their side. They seem to accept their is opposing points of view.

Remoaners: Bitter, twisted, arrogant and ignorant. Have absolutely no empathy for any other point of view other than their own and their own-self importance doesn't allow them to consider any other argument from the other side of the debate. They try and justify everything in their mind by labeling people who disagree and trying to discredit them, rather than debate them. They cannot believe they didn't win the vote and search for every excuse under the sun, as to why that happened, without having the self-awareness to look at their own behaviour.

See this another idiot when it comes to discussing Brexit and I'm sure he would put me in the bottom category. In actual fact I'm not that politically minded but I think what a lot of us want is an honest open debate about where we are today (not talking about who said what 18 months ago) and acknowledgment of the real risks and issues we are facing and trying to find the best solution. The problem is these idiots wont hold an honest and sensible conversation so again i'll just call them out for the idiots they are and the idiocy they spout

[AndrewJB]

If it's not a conflict why does it feel that way? Yes you're right we have chosen to leave, the EU are well aware the country is divided with the outcome of the vote, the only thing in mind which favours a poor deal forthcoming is lack of unification of people accepting a overall democratic decision, any poor exit decision the doorstep will be of the remoaners for that obvious reasons.

It feels like a conflict because our government and much of our media have made it seem that way. What threats have the EU made to us? Consider now the multitude of threats our own politicians and public figures have made to the EU. Consider the ill will we kicked things off with by not simply recognising the rights of EU citizens living in the U.K. The government actually tried to use this as a bargaining chip. We’ve had ministers talking about turning the U.K. into a tax haven. In contrast the EU has stuck to their principles.

[dsr]

It feels like a conflict because our government and much of our media have made it seem that way. What threats have the EU made to us? Consider now the multitude of threats our own politicians and public figures have made to the EU. Consider the ill will we kicked things off with by not simply recognising the rights of EU citizens living in the U.K. The government actually tried to use this as a bargaining chip. We’ve had ministers talking about turning the U.K. into a tax haven. In contrast the EU has stuck to their principles.

The government's position right from the start was to accept that the 3m EU citizens in the UK could have full rights to stay if that was reciprocated to the 1m UK citizens in the EU. The EU wouldn't agree - the positions of the various people could not be settled until everything else was settled. It's the EU that wanted to use people as a bargaining chip.

[AndrewJB]

1. Certainly I underestimated how intransigent the EU would be when it came to making a deal. The EU won't give the UK any sort of mutually beneficial deal; they prefer to play nasty and give nothing at all, because they're afraid that if other countries are given the option of a free trade organisation without the grand political union, they will pick it. Basically the politicians won't be seen to allow the people to reverse the political deals.
2. Having said that, the EU has no interest in preserving the generally acknowledged mutually beneficial treaties and arrangements. They prefer to make themselves poorer if it makes us relatively even worse off. Unfortunately I don't think the idiot Mrs May has realised that even yet.

Both those points are arguments to stay in the EU, because they'll be nasty to us if we don't; but they're both arguments to leave, because who wants to be in a club like that? The question is, is the UK big enough to survive and prosper as an independent country. General evidence of everywhere else in the world suggests (to me) that it is.

The EU are sticking to their core principles of free movement. If we want to be an associate member of the club we have to play by the rules (which were there when we originally joined). How is that being “intransigent”?

[dsr]

The EU are sticking to their core principles of free movement. If we want to be an associate member of the club we have to play by the rules (which were there when we originally joined). How is that being “intransigent”?

Free movement is much less of an issue than free trade. It would be beneficial for both the EU and the UK if the current free trade arrangements were kept; but the EU won't have that, as you say, because to allow that would be to encourage other EU countries to come out of the political union and to go into the free trade association. The EU's primary purpose is to continue its own existence, and preserving the prosperity of its citizens comes second.

[nil_desperandum]

The EU's primary purpose is to continue its own existence, and preserving the prosperity of its citizens comes second.

Whereas the entire leave argument is based on the future prosperity of its citizens?. Eh?
"The Conservative Party's primary purpose is to continue its own existence, and preserving the prosperity of its citizens comes second."
(There - fixed it for you).

[Jakubclaret]

Lucrative big businesses are absolutely petrified of brexit the 1s anyway which rely on outside cheap labour, damn the honest working man who belongs here & who struggles to make ends meet & provide for his family.

[RingoMcCartney]

See this another idiot when it comes to discussing Brexit.

The problem is these idiots

i'll just call them out for the idiots

the idiocy they spout

A self defining weapons grade Remoaner!

[RingoMcCartney]

Remoaners: Bitter, twisted, arrogant and ignorant. Have absolutely no empathy for any other point of view other than their own and their own-self importance doesn't allow them to consider any other argument from the other side of the debate. They try and justify everything in their mind by labeling people who disagree and trying to discredit them, rather than debate them. They cannot believe they didn't win the vote and search for every excuse under the sun, as to why that happened, without having the self-awareness to look at their own behaviour.

See above quote, for definition.

[dsr]

Whereas the entire leave argument is based on the future prosperity of its citizens?. Eh?
"The Conservative Party's primary purpose is to continue its own existence, and preserving the prosperity of its citizens comes second."
(There - fixed it for you).

The difference is that the Conservative party can only survive by doing what the people, or quite a lot of them, want them to do. The EU political machine doesn't have that restriction, they can do what's best for them without fear of losing elections - or they thought they could, until this Brexit referendum set a precedent. Now what they are trying to do is not to make themselves popular so that future referenda in other countries will vote to remain; they are trying to make themselves so unpopular that people will vote remain in fear that the EU will make life impossible for them. The Conservative party would never get elected with that tactic.

[quoonbeatz]

Free movement is much less of an issue than free trade. It would be beneficial for both the EU and the UK if the current free trade arrangements were kept; but the EU won't have that, as you say, because to allow that would be to encourage other EU countries to come out of the political union and to go into the free trade association. The EU's primary purpose is to continue its own existence, and preserving the prosperity of its citizens comes second.

cool, seeing as free movement is much less of an issue than free trade, the uk just accepts free movement and that sweet sweet free trade deal will be done in no time.

sorted.

[dsr]

cool, seeing as free movement is much less of an issue than free trade, the uk just accepts free movement and that sweet sweet free trade deal will be done in no time.

sorted.

You think? The EU is willing to drop the annual financial contribution and the insistence that we follow their rules?

[burnleymik]

Well they are based in the EU, that's true. More specifically they're based in London. Not trusting anything in the UK because it's based in the EU must be tough.

They do their work on behalf of the European Union... why would they do anything other than find any kind of bias that supports that stance?

Also, just checking out some of the "meet the team"members, pretty clear what their personal opinions are on Brexit.

https://twitter.com/JustinIbbett" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - CEO
https://twitter.com/calvindudek" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - CTO
etc

These guys almost unanimously support remain.

Given all that, how likely is it, do you think, that the data will be impartial?

[martin_p]

They do their work on behalf of the European Union... why would they do anything other than find any kind of bias that supports that stance?

Also, just checking out some of the "meet the team"members, pretty clear what their personal opinions are on Brexit.

https://twitter.com/JustinIbbett" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - CEO
https://twitter.com/calvindudek" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - CTO
etc

These guys almost unanimously support remain.

Given all that, how likely is it, do you think, that the data will be impartial?

I used to work with one of those two and can vouch for his integrity.

[aggi]

They do their work on behalf of the European Union... why would they do anything other than find any kind of bias that supports that stance?

...

Given all that, how likely is it, do you think, that the data will be impartial?

They're an independent company, they've no links to the EU, not working on behalf of the EU. You're just making stuff up.

The firm has also recently done work for the conservative party, a bit weird if they're so biased.

As for the data, that came from YouGov which is run by a Tory MP and an ex Tory MP.

[RingoMcCartney]

I used to work with one of those two and can vouch for his integrity.

I'm Brian, and so is my wife!

[burnleymik]

They're an independent company, they've no links to the EU, not working on behalf of the EU. You're just making stuff up.

The firm has also recently done work for the conservative party, a bit weird if they're so biased.

As for the data, that came from YouGov which is run by a Tory MP and an ex Tory MP.

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization ... ing-rounds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Actually it's quite sinister, firstly their single investor is Momentum London.

Then that recent report was commissioned by Best For Britain, the group directly funded by George Soros.

http://fortune.com/2018/05/30/george-so ... -campaign/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Devils_Advocate]

As for the data, that came from YouGov which is run by a Tory MP and an ex Tory MP.

And quoted as a data source around 3 hours ago on another thread by guess who.......yep you know it folks......its burnleymik

[LaLigaClaret]

So we continue to have lots of nit picking and pedantic silliness over disputes on all sorts of statistics, claims and counter claims with all sorts of posters drilling down into minute details over every fart, squeak and burp regarding Brexit.


There are some simple truths however which are these.


The British people voted and decided to leave the EU. They were promised that the Government would implement the decision.


The British Government have made a complete horlix of it because it has capitulated and folded on everything. This is due to having the most incompetent , weakest and most useless Prime Minister we have ever had to endure as a nation. Theresa May was always a Remainer and never really wanted to implement Brexit so engaged on a strategy of delay, indecision and as Del Boy would have said "complete walliness" in the hope that the British people would give up with Brexit through frustration, boredom or fear or through making Brexit softer and softer and softer so that in effect we really won't have left the EU and would be either half in and half out or virtually still all in.


This was aided and abetted by the total intransigence and bullying of the EU chief negotiator and his knob head side kicks Juncker and Verhofstadt. They clearly believed that by refusing to act in a sensible, mature and adult fashion they could frighten, bully or "persuade" us to change our mind.


Whatever the outcome whether a "good deal", "bad deal", "no deal" or staying in the EU there will be consequences some good and some bad. Anyone who thought otherwise is deluding themselves. There is no point now banging on relentlessly about all the little details of good or bad things happening we just have to get on with things and do what the British people voted for.

British people voted to leave because of some very simple to understand basic principles. The simple truth is that the Remain camp were arrogant and resorted to project fear. At no stage during the campaign did they ever offer any positive reasons for staying in. They offered no positive vision for the future and when they were ever asked why we should remain they resorted to calling Leavers stupid, racist and lots of other offensive lables.

The Leave camp offered a positive vision, offerered change, the chance to make your own decisions as a nation, to take back control of our borders, courts, trading deals and to save the money we were pouring into an organisation that is undemocratic, unaccountable, bloated, egotistical, makes up the rules, over-rules our courts, spendthrift and has no financial probity at all. Then there was the question of freedom of movement and all that entails. Then there was the spectre of evermore centralisation with a United States of Europe and the continuing social project that was the raison detre for the EU egotists. This is why they voted to Leave not all the silly pretentious tosh put out by Remainers about the Red Bus lying to people.


Remainers know full well that only a Government can make decisions about where to spend the money saved by not contributing to the EU gray train. Therefor the Leave camp never had any ability to send money to the NHS as they were not the Government and they did not promise to do so, they said we could decide to spend the money there and to claim otherwise is truly disingenuous. However of course only a couple of months back the Prime Minister did say that the Brexit dividend i.e, our annual payments to the EU would indeed mean that more money would be spent on the NHS. Its time the Remainers gave up on the constant misrepresentations they make on this point.


People did not vote to Leave to be half in and half out of the EU, they voted to totally leave. Of course the vast majority also wants to maintain close links with Europe and to work together. Most people, businesses and institutions want the same it is only egotistical EU zealots and their grand social project that is preventing a deal that works for the benefit of everybody.

If we end up with no deal then so be it because we have to work through it. The British nation is a proud nation and its people have always held their heads high and got on with it and we can do so again. I believe that finally the European people will see the folly and stupidity of he EU beaurocrats and in the end common sense will prevail. All the silly scare stories now coming out of the Remainers are grossly irresponsible, yes they may be some difficulties but life is like that. Project fear 2 must not prevail.

[martin_p]

I'm Brian, and so is my wife!

Well your private life is your own affair Wrongo.

[RingoMcCartney]

So we continue to have lots of nit picking and pedantic silliness over disputes on all sorts of statistics, claims and counter claims with all sorts of posters drilling down into minute details over every fart, squeak and burp regarding Brexit.


There are some simple truths however which are these.


The British people voted and decided to leave the EU. They were promised that the Government would implement the decision.


The British Government have made a complete horlix of it because it has capitulated and folded on everything. This is due to having the most incompetent , weakest and most useless Prime Minister we have ever had to endure as a nation. Theresa May was always a Remainer and never really wanted to implement Brexit so engaged on a strategy of delay, indecision and as Del Boy would have said "complete walliness" in the hope that the British people would give up with Brexit through frustration, boredom or fear or through making Brexit softer and softer and softer so that in effect we really won't have left the EU and would be either half in and half out or virtually still all in.


This was aided and abetted by the total intransigence and bullying of the EU chief negotiator and his knob head side kicks Juncker and Verhofstadt. They clearly believed that by refusing to act in a sensible, mature and adult fashion they could frighten, bully or "persuade" us to change our mind.


Whatever the outcome whether a "good deal", "bad deal", "no deal" or staying in the EU there will be consequences some good and some bad. Anyone who thought otherwise is deluding themselves. There is no point now banging on relentlessly about all the little details of good or bad things happening we just have to get on with things and do what the British people voted for.

British people voted to leave because of some very simple to understand basic principles. The simple truth is that the Remain camp were arrogant and resorted to project fear. At no stage during the campaign did they ever offer any positive reasons for staying in. They offered no positive vision for the future and when they were ever asked why we should remain they resorted to calling Leavers stupid, racist and lots of other offensive lables.

The Leave camp offered a positive vision, offerered change, the chance to make your own decisions as a nation, to take back control of our borders, courts, trading deals and to save the money we were pouring into an organisation that is undemocratic, unaccountable, bloated, egotistical, makes up the rules, over-rules our courts, spendthrift and has no financial probity at all. Then there was the question of freedom of movement and all that entails. Then there was the spectre of evermore centralisation with a United States of Europe and the continuing social project that was the raison detre for the EU egotists. This is why they voted to Leave not all the silly pretentious tosh put out by Remainers about the Red Bus lying to people.


Remainers know full well that only a Government can make decisions about where to spend the money saved by not contributing to the EU gray train. Therefor the Leave camp never had any ability to send money to the NHS as they were not the Government and they did not promise to do so, they said we could decide to spend the money there and to claim otherwise is truly disingenuous. However of course only a couple of months back the Prime Minister did say that the Brexit dividend i.e, our annual payments to the EU would indeed mean that more money would be spent on the NHS. Its time the Remainers gave up on the constant misrepresentations they make on this point.


People did not vote to Leave to be half in and half out of the EU, they voted to totally leave. Of course the vast majority also wants to maintain close links with Europe and to work together. Most people, businesses and institutions want the same it is only egotistical EU zealots and their grand social project that is preventing a deal that works for the benefit of everybody.

If we end up with no deal then so be it because we have to work through it. The British nation is a proud nation and its people have always held their heads high and got on with it and we can do so again. I believe that finally the European people will see the folly and stupidity of he EU beaurocrats and in the end common sense will prevail. All the silly scare stories now coming out of the Remainers are grossly irresponsible, yes they may be some difficulties but life is like that. Project fear 2 must not prevail.

A fine post.

[aggi]

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization ... ing-rounds

Actually it's quite sinister, firstly their single investor is Momentum London.

Then that recent report was commissioned by Best For Britain, the group directly funded by George Soros.

http://fortune.com/2018/05/30/george-so ... -campaign/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You do realise that Momentum London is absolutely nothing to do with the Labour party Momentum? They're a company specialising in assisting with fundraising for startups. I can think of few things less sinister.

So you did make it up when you said they do their work on behalf of the EU.

[PutTheWheelieBinsOut]

Hows the post brexit EU budget planning going? One of the most financially incompetent institutions in the world.

Angela Merkel is just about clinging on to power in Germany. Do we seriously think she can tell the German people that their already massive contribution to the EU budget is going to increase.

Do we think Emmanuel Macron will ask the French people to contribute more to the EU? with the anti-EU Marine Le Pen waiting in the wings.

Do we think any of the other 27 who contribute to the budget will be pleased at the prospect of paying more or do we think those countries who are net beneficiaries from the EU will be happy to receive less?

Do we really think Junker, Tusk or Barnier and the like have done any planning post brexit. Not that these men are actually decision makers anyway.

Even if the EU didn't have a border plan for the Northern Ireland border, you would think they have a rescue plan for the Ireland economy for a no deal brexit, but no serious plans are in place.

Fortunately for the rest of Europe the real decisions will take place in Berlin & Paris by Merkel & Macron and the rest of Europe will toe the line and this is why we won't have a no deal brexit.

We will have a deal because money talks and we will be able to go and buy food.