Begum ‘risk of hanging’

[Blackrod]

Is there anything that suggests she'd be a danger to the public? I haven't seen anything that suggests she would but given that there hasn't actually been a trial it's hard to tell either way.

Even if there is a possible issue I'm not keen on us just paying another country to take the problem off our hands. It seems a bit reminiscent of sending our convicts to Australia.

absolutely laughable post.

[mdd2]

Isis were not persuaded by the volunteers who went out to help the displaced like the Salford taxi driver
They rewarded him by a beheading
High time we favoured the innocent majority for a change.

[BennyD]

I hope there’s an unmarked grave in the desert with her name not on it.

[bfcjg]

Use her as a Guinea pig for the Corona virus vaccine. Then if she survives let her live out her days in peace in the sort of country she joined ISIS to create Afghanistan. OK no free housing education health care social security running water tv gas roads etc but that's paradise, plus lots of eligible bachelors for her to continue breeding with.

[aggi]

absolutely laughable post.

You weren't really clear in your post, which bit is laughable?

Is it the wanting trials before someone is found guilty or is it paying countries to take our citizens who haven't been convicted of a crime because we don't want to deal with them?

[Jakubclaret]

You weren't really clear in your post, which bit is laughable?

Is it the wanting trials before someone is found guilty or is it paying countries to take our citizens who haven't been convicted of a crime because we don't want to deal with them?

She's already lost the first stage of her appeal suggesting it's not looking good, if the UK refuse to acknowledge her existence (my preferred course of action) then it's pretty much done & dusted, & she will be considered a unwelcome foreigner in the eyes of the law. At the point of removing citizenship it should have been final then really & any challenges to that shouldn't have been allowed to try to derail the process.

[bfcjg]

Let her move in with aggi
Simples......... what's that.?....oh the risk applies to others not you I do apologise I for one silly minute thought you'd put your spare bedroom where your conscience is and offer this delightful young lady a roof over her head and access to the internet so she could log on to gulliblebritishliberals.com and tell the sisters to come back to Babylon whilst their brothers slaughter the non believers but only a few as we need them to work to pay our benefits.

[Jakubclaret]

Is there anything that suggests she'd be a danger to the public? I haven't seen anything that suggests she would but given that there hasn't actually been a trial it's hard to tell either way.

Even if there is a possible issue I'm not keen on us just paying another country to take the problem off our hands. It seems a bit reminiscent of sending our convicts to Australia.

She’s already been assessed she is prior to stripping the citizenship, it’s standard protocol for the home office to do this, she was assessed at being high risk by a team of specialised security experts.

[aggi]

Let her move in with aggi
Simples......... what's that.?....oh the risk applies to others not you I do apologise I for one silly minute thought you'd put your spare bedroom where your conscience is and offer this delightful young lady a roof over her head and access to the internet so she could log on to gulliblebritishliberals.com and tell the sisters to come back to Babylon whilst their brothers slaughter the non believers but only a few as we need them to work to pay our benefits.

You can't beat a bit of gibberish when you don't have a convincing argument.

I've no real view over whether she is guilty or innocent. I've no problems with her coming back, being tried, found guilty and sent to prison. The issue is the lack of trial and the dubious decision to revoke her citizenship on a technicality.

[aggi]

She’s already been assessed she is prior to stripping the citizenship, it’s standard protocol for the home office to do this, she was assessed at being high risk by a team of specialised security experts.

If they're confident, as you'd hope they are, then why not put it to a trial.

In my view it makes us look weak. We should be cleaning up our own mess, not just pretending it's nothing to do with us and someone else can clear it up.

[Jakubclaret]

If they're confident, as you'd hope they are, then why not put it to a trial.

In my view it makes us look weak. We should be cleaning up our own mess, not just pretending it's nothing to do with us and someone else can clear it up.

She was considered so dangerous & still is, it wouldn’t have been practical for a trial, the domestic security of the UK took the upmost precedence over any other considerations, it was debated for hours whether or not to have a trial, the decision like it or not was that she represented too much of a security risk by qualified security specialists.

[Right_winger]

She should just be drowned and be done with it. No more cost and no more threat. It will stop her popping out jihadis left right and centre aswell.

[Firthy]

The bigots in here are performing their usual racist double standards. She was just a young girl, she is in danger. We need to do everything we can to protect her and give her a safe life. Perhaps if the Islamic extremists see how we accept her back, forgive her and offer her a bright future then maybe they won't hate us so much?

I'm quite being a bigot by your definition. You really need to open your eyes and come into the real world.

[ClaretMoffitt]

I'm quite being a bigot by your definition. You really need to open your eyes and come into the real world.

If this "real world" of yours involves leaving children to potentially be hanged by the neck then I'd rather stick to my fake world thanks. To give her a council house and weekly benefits would cost us a whole lot less than this charade of trying to keep her out. Plus, its the decent and human thing to do. If she was white nobody on here would have a problem with it.

[Dy1geo]

If she was white nobody on here would have a problem with it.

Don’t see the clamour to let “Jihadi Jack” Letts back in who happens to be white. Even though he was British born because he had dual citizenship with Canada, we stripped the “white” British male of his British citizenship.

[Firthy]

If this "real world" of yours involves leaving children to potentially be hanged by the neck then I'd rather stick to my fake world thanks. To give her a council house and weekly benefits would cost us a whole lot less than this charade of trying to keep her out. Plus, its the decent and human thing to do. If she was white nobody on here would have a problem with it.

Bringing her back because it's cheaper is not a good reason and colour has nothing to do with this case.

Re your other post. All Muslims don't hate us, it's only a minority and she chose to go and join them. It would be different if she just went to another country and wanted to return but she didn't. She went there with the intention of joining a group that does hate and kill innocent people and that is the reason she should never be allowed to return.

[Woonderbah]

She went there with the intention of joining a group that does hate and kill innocent people and that is the reason she should never be allowed to return.

Agreed.
As liberal and accomodating as we try to be, you have to draw a line somewhere.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Bringing her back because it's cheaper is not a good reason and colour has nothing to do with this case.

Re your other post. All Muslims don't hate us, it's only a minority and she chose to go and join them. It would be different if she just went to another country and wanted to return but she didn't. She went there with the intention of joining a group that does hate and kill innocent people and that is the reason she should never be allowed to return.

What she did or didn't do is irrelevant, she was a child and she is vulnerable.

We have a moral duty to bring her home, reunite her with her family and keep her safe.

Cost is a good reason but its by no means the only reason. The biggest reason I believe is it will show the extremists that we are compassionate, which I believe is the greatest weapon against barbaric violence and distorted idealism. The second biggest reason is it will send a loud and clear message to the far right and the bigots in this county that their abhorrent views will not be tolerated and we will combat them where ever possible.

[Jakubclaret]

If this "real world" of yours involves leaving children to potentially be hanged by the neck then I'd rather stick to my fake world thanks. To give her a council house and weekly benefits would cost us a whole lot less than this charade of trying to keep her out. Plus, its the decent and human thing to do. If she was white nobody on here would have a problem with it.

A council house & weekly benefits isn't & wouldn't be a problem that's the least of the expenses, you'd be looking at a safe house 24/7 surveillance & a new identity change & additional arrangements with the extended family, that'd be the very basic requirement for the security services to endorse & authorise, she's already been assessed as high risk in every shape & form.

[Blackrod]

What she did or didn't do is irrelevant, she was a child and she is vulnerable.

We have a moral duty to bring her home, reunite her with her family and keep her safe.

Cost is a good reason but its by no means the only reason. The biggest reason I believe is it will show the extremists that we are compassionate, which I believe is the greatest weapon against barbaric violence and distorted idealism. The second biggest reason is it will send a loud and clear message to the far right and the bigots in this county that their abhorrent views will not be tolerated and we will combat them where ever possible.

A worrying post. We have no moral duty whatsoever in this case.

[ClaretMoffitt]

A council house & weekly benefits isn't & wouldn't be a problem that's the least of the expenses, you'd be looking at a safe house 24/7 surveillance & a new identity change & additional arrangements with the extended family, that'd be the very basic requirement for the security services to endorse & authorise, she's already been assessed at high risk.

If that is the cost then so be it. We have a responsibility to face up to our own problems, not palm them off onto other countries who are less able than ourselves to deal with them.

[ClaretMoffitt]

A worrying post. We have no moral duty whatsoever in this case.

Yes we do, she is a British citizen, but more so she is a young person in danger. We have it within our power to remove her from than danger, yet we are not doing so. In my view, that makes us worse than the terrorists.

[Funkydrummer]

That's a very worrying post CM. Where would you draw the line, if at all ?

Not getting at you, just intrigued.

[Jakubclaret]

If that is the cost then so be it. We have a responsibility to face up to our own problems, not palm them off onto other countries who are less able than ourselves to deal with them.

Yes, you could put forward the legitimate argument that the very moment the citizenship was stripped the responsibility finished.

[Blackrod]

If this "real world" of yours involves leaving children to potentially be hanged by the neck then I'd rather stick to my fake world thanks. To give her a council house and weekly benefits would cost us a whole lot less than this charade of trying to keep her out. Plus, its the decent and human thing to do. If she was white nobody on here would have a problem with it.

I’m beginning to think posts like this are a wind up. Can’t inagine many people would agree with this. Absolutely ridiculous. Can’t imagine anyone would want to give benefits out to a white terrorist. What absolute nonsense.

[bfcjg]

BBC News - Manchester Arena bomb parts 'bought by brothers using mum's card'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... r-51446214
Regarding terrorism which ferking genius kept paying the mother of these vermin kids £550 a week in benefits despite her living in Syria.....the country she and her turds were given asylum from as it's so dangerous. Who ever was so incompetent really ought to be sacked and a full explanation as to why on the one hand we have food banks but on the other hand we dish out cash willy Nilly for fear of being accused of being anti Islamic, racist or both.

[Devils_Advocate]

What you get for keeping on voting in an incompetent Tory govt and and becoming obsessed with having to leave the EU at the expense of everything else.

Hey but you won remember

[AndrewJB]

What we're seeing, and what some of you are cheerleading for is the erosion of our rights. Look at how many people are having their citizenship revoked now, compared with just a few years ago (increased by 600%). If we take Begum's case as an example, Jakub says it was adjudged by a "panel of security experts". DId they go out to interview her? DId they take any testimony from family members? No. So how did they arrive at their decision? The right to revoke citizenship has been widened to include people the government "deem contrary to the public good" - which could mean pretty much anyone, and when the government has already issued advice to police forces putting people who protest against the climate emergency in the same category as neo-nazis, the potential for doing this to someone for political reasons (if it hasn't already been done) increases. Look at the WIndrush Scandal - which is still going on - and tell me this government will never misuse their power.

[Jakubclaret]

https://www.mylondon.news/news/east-lon ... o-15835334
A counter terrorism experts take on her suitability to return to UK, & all the nuts & bolts that entail, she was assessed based on the sensitive intelligence available prior to the decision to strip the citizenship. I think Andrew implying people falling short "deemed contrary to the public good" wouldn't quite include 99.9% of the population, the reason for the increases in citizenships removal stems directly to terrorist suspects & the HO enforced protocol mostly fuelled by our foreign policy which to a certain degree is connected to this. I'd prefer the government to do this as when I go to bed at night some degree of reassurance that I can sleep safe & sound is satisfying or when I'm shopping at the meadowhall (say for example) less likelihood of a bomb going off, some people desire the opposite maybe danger excites them, who knows!

[Funkydrummer]

Excellent post Jakubclaret.

[Jakubclaret]

Excellent post Jakubclaret.

Cheers, I’m all for giving second chances when applicable, but when you’ve got security experts advising & giving the opinion she’s dangerous, sensible people tend to listen.

[Blackrod]

What you get for keeping on voting in an incompetent Tory govt and and becoming obsessed with having to leave the EU at the expense of everything else.

Hey but you won remember

Under Labour far more of these people would be in the country and the public would be taxed more to pay for them.

[Blackrod]

BBC News - Manchester Arena bomb parts 'bought by brothers using mum's card'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... r-51446214
Regarding terrorism which ferking genius kept paying the mother of these vermin kids £550 a week in benefits despite her living in Syria.....the country she and her turds were given asylum from as it's so dangerous. Who ever was so incompetent really ought to be sacked and a full explanation as to why on the one hand we have food banks but on the other hand we dish out cash willy Nilly for fear of being accused of being anti Islamic, racist or both.

Nail on head. It’s insanity. 2 of the main items on BBC news concern immigrant extremists that have offered s*d all to society and want to bomb innocent people. One of the terrorists had a top ten to do list when he got to the other side. One item was to choose his best 2 wives out of the 8 he has on earth.

[AndrewJB]

https://www.mylondon.news/news/east-lon ... o-15835334
A counter terrorism experts take on her suitability to return to UK, & all the nuts & bolts that entail, she was assessed based on the sensitive intelligence available prior to the decision to strip the citizenship. I think Andrew implying people falling short "deemed contrary to the public good" wouldn't quite include 99.9% of the population, the reason for the increases in citizenships removal stems directly to terrorist suspects & the HO enforced protocol mostly fuelled by our foreign policy which to a certain degree is connected to this. I'd prefer the government to do this as when I go to bed at night some degree of reassurance that I can sleep safe & sound is satisfying or when I'm shopping at the meadowhall (say for example) less likelihood of a bomb going off, some people desire the opposite maybe danger excites them, who knows!

Did this "Mr Geddes" actually meet with, and interview Ms Begum? No? Then how can he reach his conclusion? You are on record on this board as saying that until you see someone face to face, you will withhold opinion of them - and yet in this case, you don't care and would "rather sleep easy" in your bed?

Why are you so dishonest to fellow Clarets? Be political, fine. But outright lying to people?

And as for "feeling safe" - how angry are you about the hundred thousand or so deaths caused by austerity? More than all the deaths caused by terror in all this country's history. Okay - it doesn't affect you, so you don't care, right? You're just concerned by the idea that you might die in a terror attack - as though they'd kill someone who actually backs their cause, when you strengthen the terror cause by backing weaker rights for British people.

[Jakubclaret]

Did this "Mr Geddes" actually meet with, and interview Ms Begum? No? Then how can he reach his conclusion? You are on record on this board as saying that until you see someone face to face, you will withhold opinion of them - and yet in this case, you don't care and would "rather sleep easy" in your bed?

Why are you so dishonest to fellow Clarets? Be political, fine. But outright lying to people?

And as for "feeling safe" - how angry are you about the hundred thousand or so deaths caused by austerity? More than all the deaths caused by terror in all this country's history. Okay - it doesn't affect you, so you don't care, right? You're just concerned by the idea that you might die in a terror attack - as though they'd kill someone who actually backs their cause, when you strengthen the terror cause by backing weaker rights for British people.

You do really need to let this sink in, she's been assessed as a high risk dangerous individual who could potentially cause damage to our domestic security, it's really important to understand & acknowledge this, this is the reality of the situation, it's not down to me or you or anybody else, the decision has been made based on a calculated risk assessment by the security experts.

[Right_winger]

You do really need to let this sink in, she's been assessed as a high risk dangerous individual who could potentially cause damage to our domestic security, it's really important to understand & acknowledge this, this is the reality of the situation, it's not down to me or you or anybody else, the decision has been made based on a calculated risk assessment by the security experts.

Unfortunately Jakob people from the more liberal end of the scale are not interested in reason and logic. They have a fixed mindset and attack anyone with different views, even if it means our country financially supporting those who want to harm us.

[evensteadiereddie]

You're being ironic ?

[bfcjg]

What you get for keeping on voting in an incompetent Tory govt and and becoming obsessed with having to leave the EU at the expense of everything else.

Hey but you won remember

Bizarre post, we are in the EU whilst this has gone on FFSno doubt European laws will her her sort. Re tories if the government have knowingly allowed such things to happen again heads should roll, metaphorically that is not heads rolling after an islamic state sword on a volunteer taxi drivers neck.

[AndrewJB]

You do really need to let this sink in, she's been assessed as a high risk dangerous individual who could potentially cause damage to our domestic security, it's really important to understand & acknowledge this, this is the reality of the situation, it's not down to me or you or anybody else, the decision has been made based on a calculated risk assessment by the security experts.

She hasn’t been assessed, because nobody has been out to assess her. You if all people, who refuse to make your mind up about someone until you meet them face to face should be able to grasp this. I’m an expert in a couple of technical areas, but if you asked me to draw conclusions based on information that is years old, then you’ll only get assumptions.

What has been assessed is just the political points for the government for leaving her out in the cold.

[Devils_Advocate]

Bizarre post, we are in the EU whilst this has gone on FFSno doubt European laws will her her sort. Re tories if the government have knowingly allowed such things to happen again heads should roll, metaphorically that is not heads rolling after an islamic state sword on a volunteer taxi drivers neck.

Not so bizarre that you completely fail to grasp my point about the EU and Brexit. You were moaning about the benefit system and the incompetence around how we have food banks yet pay people money who shouldn't be getting it.

The point is whilst people like you have become obsessed with Brexit and as a result of that all media attention and govt efforts have gone in to focusing on this issue naturally a lot of other important govt departments and responsibilities have been left to decay.

If all they need to do to win your votes and get into power is to smear labour/Corbyn (hello Blackrod) and rattle on about taking back control and getting Brexit done then they aren't gonna care if some benefits department screws up.

[Blackrod]

Did this "Mr Geddes" actually meet with, and interview Ms Begum? No? Then how can he reach his conclusion? You are on record on this board as saying that until you see someone face to face, you will withhold opinion of them - and yet in this case, you don't care and would "rather sleep easy" in your bed?

Why are you so dishonest to fellow Clarets? Be political, fine. But outright lying to people?

And as for "feeling safe" - how angry are you about the hundred thousand or so deaths caused by austerity? More than all the deaths caused by terror in all this country's history. Okay - it doesn't affect you, so you don't care, right? You're just concerned by the idea that you might die in a terror attack - as though they'd kill someone who actually backs their cause, when you strengthen the terror cause by backing weaker rights for British people.

You know you are losing your way when you are trying to compare deaths caused by ‘austerity ‘ to terrorism.

[Jakubclaret]

She hasn’t been assessed, because nobody has been out to assess her. You if all people, who refuse to make your mind up about someone until you meet them face to face should be able to grasp this. I’m an expert in a couple of technical areas, but if you asked me to draw conclusions based on information that is years old, then you’ll only get assumptions.

What has been assessed is just the political points for the government for leaving her out in the cold.

She's been assessed based on her past & what we know about isis, you don't need to necessarily assess people face to face to draw conclusions, the exception being she's a terrorist & in these particular cases you run with what you highly suspect, no margin for giving her the benefit of the doubt. She's dangerous, I'm not quite sure how many people she'd have to blow up or conspire to blow up before you are convinced, thankfully & wisely in my view she won't get the opportunity.

[Firthy]

If her parents are that desperate to see her then maybe they could go and live out there, problem solved.

[aggi]

you don't need to necessarily assess people face to face to draw conclusions

This is brilliant.

Over the past few years Jakubclaret has been adamant that you can't judge a person without meeting them, often to the point of making ludicrous claims.

[bfcjg]

Not so bizarre that you completely fail to grasp my point about the EU and Brexit. You were moaning about the benefit system and the incompetence around how we have food banks yet pay people money who shouldn't be getting it.

The point is whilst people like you have become obsessed with Brexit and as a result of that all media attention and govt efforts have gone in to focusing on this issue naturally a lot of other important govt departments and responsibilities have been left to decay.

If all they need to do to win your votes and get into power is to smear labour/Corbyn (hello Blackrod) and rattle on about taking back control and getting Brexit done then they aren't gonna care if some benefits department screws up.

I think you are obsessed with a lot of people on here.

[AndrewJB]

She's been assessed based on her past & what we know about isis, you don't need to necessarily assess people face to face to draw conclusions, the exception being she's a terrorist & in these particular cases you run with what you highly suspect, no margin for giving her the benefit of the doubt. She's dangerous, I'm not quite sure how many people she'd have to blow up or conspire to blow up before you are convinced, thankfully & wisely in my view she won't get the opportunity.

I called the doctor's the other day to make an appointment: "No need" said the doctor. "I've got all your patient records here in front of me up to 2016, and I know where you live, so I'll just diagnose you based on that..."

[KRBFC]

So let me get this right, some people want a dangerous ISIS terrorist to be allowed back into the country to live with the rest of us? Hahahahaha has to be a wind up

[TheFamilyCat]

So let me get this right, some people want a dangerous ISIS terrorist to be allowed back into the country to live with the rest of us? Hahahahaha has to be a wind up

Hang on, do some people think that if her citizenship is granted back to her, she's going to just get off a plane and wander off?

[claretonthecoast1882]

Hang on, do some people think that if her citizenship is granted back to her, she's going to just get off a plane and wander off?

Well she could be released under surveillance, nothing could possibly happen then.

[Devils_Advocate]

I think you are obsessed with a lot of people on here.

Nope