Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:48 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:The disciples of cultural Marxism forget many things. The most important thing they forget is that right minded people have a choice.

Whether or not they want to bend a knee at the alter of political correctness or not.....

Of course. You have the choice to be as racist, homophobic and misogynistic as you like. Just don't whinge when folk point it out.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:55 pm

Extension until 22nd of may with the proviso that parliament agree to a deal by the end of this month.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:02 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:
Well over 1M registered the last time I looked, grown to that in less than 24 hours as far as I can tell (after being low level for about a week)

This is because the woman who registered it made a really poor job of publicising it.
Fair play to her for thinking of it, but if she'd only posted it immediately on this site it would have gone viral within minutes.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:04 pm

So extension if deal is passed, but only if deal is passed.

No shock to those who follow Mrs May political career at PM is that refused to tell the EU what her plan was if it didn't pass.

We need a back up plan, and we've got the political equivalent of Brian Laws running the show.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:37 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:petition for revoking Article 50 has broken the website...

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47652071" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well over 1M registered the last time I looked, grown to that in less than 24 hours as far as I can tell (after being low level for about a week)

Every day really is a school day, so, 1 million is more than 17.4 million... Wow

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:38 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:No shock to those who follow Mrs May political career at PM is that refused to tell the EU what her plan was if it didn't pass.

We need a back up plan.

No access to internet for most of the day so I’ve only just skimmed the news pages.

Not defending her here but if Macron has stated it’s no deal if it doesn’t pass then what back up plan can she offer? If he’s not bluffing, any further request to extend will be vetoed by the French.

The only back up plan the UK can offer internally is to revoke article 50.

Considering she’s burnt her bridges, WTO is probably looking the most likely isn’t it?

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:42 pm

The petition is a waste of time. Just some empty vessels trying to be relevant. The only way to legitimately revoke Brexit is with a second referendum of which would be an affront to democracy. As usual those empty vessels making noise because they lost the last one.

WTO looking more likely by the minute.

The remainers can have a second referendum in 10-15 years time once the dust has settled, that’s if anyone is remotely interested in re-joining the EU again.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:48 pm

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:50 pm

Considering she’s burnt her bridges, WTO is probably looking the most likely isn’t it?

Depends on what parliament do at a guess, but I'm not clear on that.

One thing is v. obvious, Mays deal isn't going through so is she prepared to listen to alternatives and can she be persuaded by people that she has to?

boyyanno · Post by **boyyanno** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:51 pm

Right_winger wrote:The petition is a waste of time. Just some empty vessels trying to be relevant. The only way to legitimately revoke Brexit is with a second referendum of which would be an affront to democracy. As usual those empty vessels making noise because they lost the last one.

WTO looking more likely by the minute.

The remainers can have a second referendum in 10-15 years time once the dust has settled, that’s if anyone is remotely interested in re-joining the EU again.

Wow, referring to people who voted differently to you as "empty vessels" I'd rather my vessel be empty than filled with this sort of bile. As a side note the biggest affront to democracy is that the campaign was not fair, regardless of the outcome. I don't care either way anymore and it's mainly people like you (on both sides) that has made me and many others feel this way. Shame on you.

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:55 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Depends on what parliament do at a guess, but I'm not clear on that.

One thing is v. obvious, Mays deal isn't going through so is she prepared to listen to alternatives and can she be persuaded by people that she has to?

Can patrliament do anything if she does the vote at the last minute? Her track record on listening to alternatives hasn’t been that clever so far, has it.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:57 pm

I don't know, but anyone who trusts May after what she's done is mental.

Problem is that there isn't a mandate for a No Deal. I know that, everyone knows that but the ones who want it will ignore it and try to drive us off a cliff.

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:10 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I don't know, but anyone who trusts May after what she's done is mental.

Problem is that there isn't a mandate for a No Deal. I know that, everyone knows that but the ones who want it will ignore it and try to drive us off a cliff.

I appreciate no deal will cause the largest disruption and is the option no sensible person wants, but Surely the mandate is to leave the EU, deal or not?

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:10 pm

SmudgetheClaret wrote:That can wait we are still waiting for the 800k job losses the £4200 rise in cost of living for families and the economy falling off a cliff if we even voted to leave

The pound dropped 20+%, is that not enough for starters?
House prices flattened, as folk afraid.
London haemorrhaging companies....that's jobs and income.

It's on it's way....the plug is out of the bath.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:12 pm

Surely the mandate is to leave the EU, deal or not?

Not without a deal or not when we are blatantly not ready.

The March 29th date is just a date, its can be changed and we still leave, but we leave with a deal.

Revoke/2nd ref are the last possible solutions btw, but we shouldn't assume its only Mays deal.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:13 pm

No deal is the only outcome which satisfies the referendum result. We will flourish once out of the EUs clutches

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:13 pm

Greenmile wrote:Of course. You have the choice to be as racist, homophobic and misogynistic as you like. Just don't whinge when folk point it out.

Like I say, I don't worship in your politically correct church. The threat of hell fire and damnation don't concern me. Nor will it silence me and millions like me preacher man.

May your God go with you.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:13 pm

Here's Nigel Farage admitting that the deal we have now is the best one we could have.

https://twitter.com/brexit_sham/status/ ... 1931565061" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:13 pm

If ( when) her deal fails she should resign. Maybe after a censure motion that is short of a vote of confidence. Can see 120 tories voting against her in a censure motion.

A new pm would have to be appointed quickly so probably an interim one. Which younger person would want it just now?. The nezr pm would be a brexiteer this time.

No idea how we get round the trapstop but I think a tweaked political declaration could be enough to get a deal over the line if brexiteers are negotiating the trade deal.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:16 pm

Fully agree that she should go, and she should definitely offer that option if it gets her deal over the line.

But we have to prepare for the fact that she won't, and that we then have to make sure that we explore the other options before going down the "No Deal" route. (which as already explained, there isn't a democratic mandate for)

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:16 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I don't know, but anyone who trusts May after what she's done is mental.

Problem is that there isn't a mandate for a No Deal. I know that, everyone knows that but the ones who want it will ignore it and try to drive us off a cliff.

The only crumb of comfort I can offer is that at the 11th hour the EU normally do a deal.
Unfortunately parliament don’t want her deal or No deal.

I normally like to think I can see a route through things.

But this impass could go many ways I cannot comprehend.

Could the MP’s take control of Parliament and cancel Article 50.!!!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:18 pm

EU won't offer any better than this. There isn't any sign of it.

What they will do is offer us extensions to pass a deal, but won't change the core deal.

And I suspect we need to realise that if we want a long extension, then we are going to have to have EU elections.

Which is a whole new level of unpreparedness by us that we didn't realise this.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:20 pm

summitclaret wrote:If ( when) her deal fails she should resign. Maybe after a censure motion that is short of a vote of confidence. Can see 120 tories voting against her in a censure motion.

A new pm would have to be appointed quickly so probably an interim one. Which younger person would want it just now?. The nezr pm would be a brexiteer this time.

No idea how we get round the trapstop but I think a tweaked political declaration could be enough to get a deal over the line if brexiteers are negotiating the trade deal.

David Liddington is effectively deputy PM. He’d be in charge is she decided to walk before a leadership contest had been held.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:20 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote: Could the MP’s take control of Parliament and cancel Article 50.!!!

May would have to go first. If parliament somehow trigger the nuclear option they deserve all that comes to them.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:21 pm

Could the MP’s take control of Parliament and cancel Article 50.!!!

No idea, but it would have to be the very, very, very last resort.

It would be politically very damaging, but the argument would be that a "No Deal" Brexit would be both politically damaging (it would be) and economy damaging.

Course, it would need Lab support and I can't see Corbyn backing that.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:23 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:The only crumb of comfort I can offer is that at the 11th hour the EU normally do a deal.
Unfortunately parliament don’t want her deal or No deal.

I normally like to think I can see a route through things.

But this impass could go many ways I cannot comprehend.

Could the MP’s take control of Parliament and cancel Article 50.!!!

I don’t believe they could force it. Amendments to motions or motions in their own right aren’t legally binding so could be ignored is she didn’t want to do it. It has to be legislation to make it law and I don’t think you can get legislation through parliament in the four days left after an MV3 defeat.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:24 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:The only crumb of comfort I can offer is that at the 11th hour the EU normally do a deal.
Unfortunately parliament don’t want her deal or No deal.

I normally like to think I can see a route through things.

But this impass could go many ways I cannot comprehend.

Could the MP’s take control of Parliament and cancel Article 50.!!!

I really cant see many English and welsh MPs daring to put their names to revocation without a referendum. If her deal fails we will have to ask for a longer extension. Can't see the EU wanting to take the blame for no deal and dropping Ireland in the deep do do.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:26 pm

summitclaret wrote:I really cant see many English and welsh MPs daring to put their names to revocation without a referendum. If her deal fails we will have to ask for a longer extension. Can't see the EU wanting to take the blame for no deal and dropping Ireland in the deep do do.

I think that’s the most likely way out of no deal. It would have to be a long extension though as May would have to walk.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:26 pm

martin_p wrote:David Liddington is effectively deputy PM. He’d be in charge is she decided to walk before a leadership contest had been held.

No chance whatsoever of that. Far more likely to be IDS of Davies

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:28 pm

I'll **** myself silly if the UK enters Brexit with either IDS or Davis at the helm.

We'd be ******.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:28 pm

summitclaret wrote:No chance whatsoever of that. Far more likely to be IDS of Davies

Zero chance of that. Until there’s a leadership election it’d have to be ‘the next in line’ of current cabinet members.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:30 pm

There have been MP’s putting amendments to try to take control.

I feel they are intent on stopping Brexit.

May has really confused me with her recent actions, she has turned the whole of parliament against her.

I can see an MP coo coming.

They will not allow the EU to kick us out with No Deal, but I think May is ok with that.

Biggest game of chicken I have seen.

We do it with suppliers but it’s peanuts compared to this.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:30 pm

Liddington actually wouldn't be the worst choice to be fair.

He's a pragmatist, so he's be comfortably with listening to compromise plans that might get through the House of Parliament

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:37 pm

martin_p wrote:Zero chance of that. Until there’s a leadership election it’d have to be ‘the next in line’ of current cabinet members.

There would not be a ballot (for the interim ?) and someone will just get it like when May got it. They need to get a clear way forward that will deliver brexit before the 2 may local elections.

Edit it needs to be someone not currently in the cabinet.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:41 pm

Why?

Whatever limited brain capacity there is the Conservative Party that also isn't a fanatic is in the cabinet.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:43 pm

summitclaret wrote:There would not be a ballot (for the interim ?) and someone will just get it like when May got it. They need to get a clear way forward that will deliver brexit before the 2 may local elections.

Edit it needs to be someone not currently in the cabinet.

May got it after a leadership election.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:46 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Liddington actually wouldn't be the worst choice to be fair.

He's a pragmatist, so he's be comfortably with listening to compromise plans that might get through the House of Parliament

The compromises have already been made in May's deal.
It leaves lots to play for at the next stage. Everybody is conveniently not mentioning that.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:50 pm

Guess it all depends on whether you think a completely unprecedented "No Deal" is going to be bad or not.

If you don't think its going to be bad, then fine, but I'd need some info on what you base that confidence on.

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:52 pm

Oh oh seems like the EU vote has hit the buffers some member states not quite onboard with the short extension

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:55 pm

Oooh, 9 month delay mooted by EU if Mays deal fails.

Guess we'd have to do EU election though

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:57 pm

SmudgetheClaret wrote:Oh oh seems like the EU vote has hit the buffers some member states not quite onboard with the short extension

Where you hear that? Got a link?

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:00 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Where you hear that? Got a link?

it's being followed live on LBC ...

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:01 pm

I was listening to radio 4 on the way to work.
Cannot remember the country who’ MP was on.
But he said after Ireland his country would be the second hardest hit by No Deal.
He was really angry about how parliament had treated the EU,
He felt that the drop n his country GDP and the increased unemployment was a worthwhile price to pay to set the UK adrift.

He wanted it over so the damage would be done and then he could work with the EU to recover.

Our Government is playing a dangerous game.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:02 pm

Isn't that Farages show at this time?

scrambledclaret · Post by **scrambledclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:07 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Oooh, 9 month delay mooted by EU if Mays deal fails.

Guess we'd have to do EU election though

What a Christmas present... At least I'd get to enjoy summer though.

All this is a welcome distraction from possible relegation!

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:08 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:I was listening to radio 4 on the way to work.
Cannot remember the country who’ MP was on.
But he said after Ireland his country would be the second hardest hit by No Deal.
He was really angry about how parliament had treated the EU,
He felt that the drop n his country GDP and the increased unemployment was a worthwhile price to pay to set the UK adrift.

He wanted it over so the damage would be done and then he could work with the EU to recover.

Our Government is playing a dangerous game.

He should have pushed for more to be done to get a deal we could have accepted then. The Irish will be getting worried about no deal.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:10 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Oooh, 9 month delay mooted by EU if Mays deal fails.

Guess we'd have to do EU election though

That means we would have no excuse not to be ready for no deal.

Also if true it just about finishes may

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:10 pm

Right, so you say Ireland should be worried about a "No Deal"

By the very same rationale, surely you can see that we should be as well?

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:12 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Right, so you say Ireland should be worried about a "No Deal"

By the very same rationale, surely you can see that we should be as well?

I am and want a deal but are Ireland big enough to survive it? We are.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:16 pm

Are we?

I mean, we'll take a huge hit as well.