Lessons from tonight.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:06 pm

Falcon wrote:9 goals in 25 appearances. That's worth £15m of anyone's money in this day and age.

Correct.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:09 pm

My lesson was that the roof of the Bob Lord stand controls the ball better than Andre Gray. Bounce bounce bounce then move forward, as opposed to bobble bounce bobble bobble bounce no sign of ball.

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:18 pm

I witnessed Boyd cross the ball with his right foot. This was a unique occasion.
In the 6th minute he chased after a ball to their goal line, we had two in their box, and instead of blasting it across with his right he ran around it to put it out for a throw in, with his left. Give me strength.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:25 pm

bfcjg wrote:My lesson was that the roof of the Bob Lord stand controls the ball better than Andre Gray. Bounce bounce bounce then move forward, as opposed to bobble bounce bobble bobble bounce no sign of ball.

This is rubbish. The tendency of some of our fans to focus on their perception of what players can't do, rather than what they can, is ridiculous on occasions.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:32 pm

Some of the loud groans at Gray last night were bordering moronic. He spent the whole time on the pitch with at least 1 player climbing on him or holding him, when something comes off its muted applause when it doesn't its like a signal for them to get on his back. One person sat behind me last night who spent the game bitching at Gray then went one step further by claiming that was Arfield's best game for years last night and he hopes to see him take up the same position for the rest of his stay here.

Hard to believe we are where we are at times.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:33 pm

claretspice wrote:Agree with Tall Paul. I don't think we looked any better last night than we did on Saturday. We did a good job of protecting the lead, certainly once Tarks came on, but that of course isn't a skill we needed on Saturday so we can't compare it, and we did have 5-10 minutes after we scored when we had more momentum than we ever had on Saturday. But fundamentally it was the same performance, just against a weaker team and on a night when we managed one moment of quality that we didn't have on Saturday.

Interestingly, I don't know that that means we were terrible - either tonight or on Saturday. I think what Tall Paul means is that we weren't at our best, and we certainly weren't. But plenty thought we were terrible on Saturday, and whilst I thought they were a little harsh given how good Spurs were, anyone who thought we were terrible on Saturday ought to think the same of last night. But realistically, we all have to accept there will be days in this league when we look crap by comparison to our opponents - because they are particularly good and we, for whatever reason (confidence and belief being the main two) are slightly below our best. Hopefully the win last night will give us the belief and conviction to produce a better performance at Boro than we managed at Sunderland.

Yeah, fair comments.

I started writing a reply, but it would basically be repeating what you've said there about if we were terrible on Saturday (which I didn't think we were, but many did), we were at least as poor last night.

It's a trait of football fans in general, but I think the overreactions on here based on the fine margins that decide the results are bizarre sometimes. People need to look at the bigger picture.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:34 pm

Completely agree. The biggest change last night from the Spurs game was that Keane had clearly given his head a wobble and was back to his best. That made a massive difference, as it always does.

Guitargeorge · Post by **Guitargeorge** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:37 pm

The original poster suggested that we need to practice corners. I suggest employing Charlie Adam as the corner coach.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:48 pm

claretspice wrote:Completely agree. The biggest change last night from the Spurs game was that Keane had clearly given his head a wobble and was back to his best. That made a massive difference, as it always does.

If Keane was back to his best how come Marko Arnautović got through twice, fluffing one and Joey Barton had to cover the other?

ewanrob · Post by **ewanrob** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:50 pm

A lot of disparaging remarks about Gray around us last night, thought the lad put a lot more into his performance than Ive seen for a while. My issue with him (splitting hairs) is that he constantly waits for the ball to come to him, the amount of times last night a Stoke player wrapped his leg around him to nick the ball was a tad annoying. I like the lad theres a lot to come from him, but he is one player who could do with a Kevin Phillips type striking coach to perhaps change his style.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:51 pm

bfcjg wrote:My lesson was that the roof of the Bob Lord stand controls the ball better than Andre Gray. Bounce bounce bounce then move forward, as opposed to bobble bounce bobble bobble bounce no sign of ball.

Our goal came from Gray taking down a hoofed ball out on the right wing, he then held off Muniesa, then beat Muniesa and Martins Indi for strength and skill, before holding Muniesa off once more and passing off to Barton.

Barton sprayed the ball to Ward, Ward to Brady, Brady to Hendrick, run, cut back, goal.

All came from Gray's touch and strength.

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:10 pm

Play it on the floor and pass the bloody thing to each other rather than punting it long all the time

Let Hendrick and Brady go on some runs forward

Tarkowski always a good option in midfield when we need to control the game, can see him excelling in an Alexander type role there.

Defour is not a left or right winger (again) for gods sake play him centrally

Be brave and play football and the good things will come to us!

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:14 pm

Walton wrote:Our goal came from Gray taking down a hoofed ball out on the right wing, he then held off Muniesa, then beat Muniesa and Martins Indi for strength and skill, before holding Muniesa off once more and passing off to Barton.

Barton sprayed the ball to Ward, Ward to Brady, Brady to Hendrick, run, cut back, goal.

All came from Gray's touch and strength.

Who 'hoofed' the ball to Gray?

I want to say that it 'all came from' whoever 'hoofed' the ball.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:22 pm

Barton volleyed it in the general direction of the wing. Gray had to sprint 30 yards to get there. It was a proper hoof, rugby-style.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:23 pm

It was an absolute ******** ball, and it took the speed, strength and skill of Gray to turn it into anything other than a Stoke throw.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:33 pm

Fair enough. Well done Gray.

I was going to be really flippant and credit the goal to the referee for blowing the whistle to start the second half.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:35 pm

That did help, to be fair

ngsobob · Post by **ngsobob** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:46 pm

Heaton to stop taking free kicks except in his own bailiwick. Too predictable, and robs us of quick free kicks or on the ground passes.

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:26 pm

The first 50 times I saw the routine of Heaton aiming for Keane's head I thought it looked fairly dangerous.

It does create a bit of a mad scramble.

However I can't remember a single shot let alone goal from it.

Other lesson from last night is that there are better deadball takers at the club than Scott Arfield (thankfully).

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:28 pm

Defour took a corner last night that missed the penalty box and also curled in a free kick from out wide that went along the 18 yard line. Hardly a groan, not seen a mention on here. Had that been Arfield I reckon we could have had 20 plus posts on it.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:30 pm

andyh wrote:The first 50 times I saw the routine of Heaton aiming for Keane's head I thought it looked fairly dangerous.

It does create a bit of a mad scramble.

However I can't remember a single shot let alone goal from it.

Other lesson from last night is that there are better deadball takers at the club than Scott Arfield (thankfully).

Scored at least one goal from the tactic - the winner against Everton. I suspect there have been others too.

Arfield's corners haven't been that bad recently and we were more no more or less dangerous from them last night than we have been in the last couple of games. Unless you count Defour last night gifting Stoke a 1 v 1 as a direct consequence of possibly the worst corner we've taken all season.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:31 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:If Keane was back to his best how come Marko Arnautović got through twice, fluffing one and Joey Barton had to cover the other?

First time, it all came from our corner when Defour chipped it to no one in particular in the D. So Keane was out of the game from the start and short of locating a broomstick, had no chance of getting back to do anything about the counter attack. The second one as I recall involved the a 3 v 2 which Keane was taken out of by the slide rule pass, as happens.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:45 pm

As much as I like Scott Arfield he is our worst corner taker.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:54 pm

Defour's clean strike to that area convinced me it was deliberate, and it was an attempt at a Sheringham corner. Unfortunately none of our players were in that spot and it turned out to be pretty dangerous.

I'd have his missus on corners above Arfield though.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:00 pm

Blackrod wrote:As much as I like Scott Arfield he is our worst corner taker.

Clearly that's wrong. Barton has taken dead balls for much of his career and isn't exactly shy, so clearly he is on board with the decision that when Defour and Brady aren't on the pitch, Arfield gets the gig. And generally, they've been decent.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:13 pm

claretdom wrote:Defour took a corner last night that missed the penalty box and also curled in a free kick from out wide that went along the 18 yard line. Hardly a groan, not seen a mention on here. Had that been Arfield I reckon we could have had 20 plus posts on it.

In the match thread there was quite a lot of cursing Defour's set pieces, particularly the corner so bad it lead to one of Stoke's best chances.

I think most put last night down to being rusty from lack of game time, one game is not a pattern compared to Arfield who we've seen plenty of.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:50 pm

It's hard to believe that there could have been a worse corner than Adams' last night, but Defour managed it.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:58 pm

Yes, at least Charlie Adam's comedy routine didn't result in us nearly scoring at the other end! As for Defour's effort, the less said..... (But I hope Dyche didn't hold back!)

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:19 pm

Trust Sean.Subs spot on tonight.He has got it wrong on a few occasions but fair play tonight he was spot on.
Stoke are the new Bolton .They bring nothing to the Beautiful game and insist on cheating.conning the ref and blustering their way through games A disgraceful team the mirror image of their manager.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:28 pm

Stoke moved the ball quickly and looked a very tidy side. Took care of the ball well. Allen, Adam and Diouf were very good. Obviously, when you play Berahino you're ultimately going to be left wanting. Joke of a player.

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:32 pm

claretdom wrote:Some of the loud groans at Gray last night were bordering moronic. He spent the whole time on the pitch with at least 1 player climbing on him or holding him, when something comes off its muted applause when it doesn't its like a signal for them to get on his back. One person sat behind me last night who spent the game bitching at Gray then went one step further by claiming that was Arfield's best game for years last night and he hopes to see him take up the same position for the rest of his stay here.

Hard to believe we are where we are at times.

Gray does get a lot of unfair stick. Funnily enough I have a complete moron sitting behind me who spends most of the game whinging about Gray and he also happens to have an awful whiny voice which makes it even worse to listen to.

He had another decent game last night, showed some good touches at times and some very nice lay offs. We all know his control isn't the best, but what the morons don't take seem to understand is that most of the balls in his direction are dropping from a great height of hit towards him like a bullet. He rarely has a nicely weighted pass on the deck for him to run on to.

I am convinced he will go on to have a very good career in the Prem, shame that it probably be wont be with us.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:50 pm

What I struggle to understand is why a large majority of our fans focus on Gray's weakness' and ignore his strengths? All of our players have weakness' and strengths yet Gray is hounded constantly for his weakness' when his strengths make him the best striker we have and the biggest goal threat. I guess some of our fans won't accept Gray either way because of his previous homophobic comments and it's quite sad considering the massive contribution he made to get us back into the PL. I love Gray and I don't care about his weakness' because his strengths make him good enough for us.

HendricksHair · Post by **HendricksHair** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:54 pm

minnieclaret wrote:I witnessed Boyd cross the ball with his right foot. This was a unique occasion.
In the 6th minute he chased after a ball to their goal line, we had two in their box, and instead of blasting it across with his right he ran around it to put it out for a throw in, with his left. Give me strength.

That ball was actually just about to go out and he did the right thing putting it out for a throw in deep inside their own half rather than hitting an aimless cross whilst off balance either straight to grant or out for a goal kick

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:02 am

HendricksHair wrote:That ball was actually just about to go out and he did the right thing putting it out for a throw in deep inside their own half rather than hitting an aimless cross whilst off balance either straight to grant or out for a goal kick

Or onto Sam's head and into the onion bag. Agreed he would have been on the stretch but as he had time to run around it to use his left he certainly could have pulled it back to the 6yd line.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:12 am

' I guess some of our fans won't accept Gray either way because of his homophobic comments' What tripe. It is the first touch, ball control, offside positions and waiting for the perfect ball that people moan about. Obviously he has other aspects to his game to offer.

claretgimmer · Post by **claretgimmer** » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:56 am

In the the 2 yrs Gray has been with us his first touch to my mind hasn`t improved as much as it should and he is very predictable in what he does with the ball in that situation, he carries a bigger threat when given a run on goal at which I think he is the best I`ve seen at BFC but yet we play to his weakness by hitting the ball into his feet rather than drop the ball into the areas he is strong aka Bolton away last year, play to the lads strengths not his weakness but I feel it needs Defour to play centrally because he is the player who could play regularly the type of ball Gray needs to be effective.

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:03 am

I'm not sure what game people were watching to suggest it would've been a travesty had we not it. If one of our players had the chances Arnautovic had, I'm pretty sure we'd be saying a point was dropped.

I agree with those saying we were not much better last night than Saturday, particularly taking into account the chasm in quality between Stoke and Spurs. What pleased me is that we didn't shrink when the players knew full well after 7 games without a win, it was a big game. They stood firm and though we rode our luck a little when the chance came, we took it. That's a side that has qualities we've never seen in the premiership before, and though we're not playing with a great deal of freedom it's a great sign to take three points when you really need them.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:09 am

Can't understand all this Gray bashing, he has been a fantastic signing for Burnley football club and been worth every penny of his fee.

When he leaves in the summer to a bigger club and he will, he will be truly missed. I Admit he is still work in progress but he has come on leaps and bounds this season.

We would be giving him away at £15m it would take £20m to replace him, minimum in today's market

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:39 am

Top Claret wrote:Can't understand all this Gray bashing, he has been a fantastic signing for Burnley football club and been worth every penny of his fee.

When he leaves in the summer to a bigger club and he will, he will be truly missed. I Admit he is still work in progress but he has come on leaps and bounds this season.

We would be giving him away at £15m it would take £20m to replace him, minimum in today's market

Absolutely.

Although still learning, overall he is our biggest threat, leading goal scorer (despite very poor service) and the one striker that really worries the opposition's defence. This season would of been even more of a challenge without him.

On top of that, his goal scoring last season was a major part in getting us back to the Prem.

Been a tremendous value signing for us and as you have said will be truly missed.

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