The Dyche spirit

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue May 02, 2017 1:47 pm

Jimscho wrote:The relevance is that if we play your style of football in the Premier League we get hammered and concede a lot of goals.We also get relegated.If we play the type of football we have played this season we survive.I have been to every home game this season and enjoyed the majority even playing the style of football you don't like.Its all about results in the Premier League.

What a load of crap.

B'mouth have survived playing good stuff. Hull play good stuff under their new manager and would be very comfortable had he been there all season.

Boro are going down playing very negative football as are Sunderland.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue May 02, 2017 1:50 pm

Don't be a berk, kbrfc, you know damn well that was put up in response to the original poster's observation re Dyche and our season - which most of us seem to agree has been a success. Oh look, so does a very experienced Prem manager, a manager who knows all about surviving against the big boys.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm content that we've survived - deservedly so - in what could have been a difficult season. As it is, we've gone through under hardly any relegation pressure whatsoever and are in a good position to perhaps create a little more next year.

You, on the other hand, would seem to prefer Dyche sets up to attack no matter what the consequences even relegation. I can't agree.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Tue May 02, 2017 1:51 pm

KRBFC wrote:That simply isn't true though for a number of reasons.

1. Coyle never got us relegated
2. Laws' football was horrific
3. We have transformed incredibly since Laws, far more resources.
4. Dyche got relegated once
5. There is nothing to say this group of players would certainly be relegated with a more expansive system especially away.
6. Laws got relegated with a horrific style of play, no guarantee that this style of play is the only way to survive.
7. Other sides have survived playing a more attractive style of play, Swansea, Watford, Bournemouth to name a few.
8. Other sides have been relegated playing this way, Boro are one from this season.

Understand now you are obviously Coyles love child.Lets blame it all on Laws.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 1:54 pm

Jimscho wrote:Understand now you are obviously Coyles love child.Lets blame it all on Laws.

I'm stating facts, we were outside the relegation zone when Coyle left, had he stayed and we got Wilshere and Holden. Who knows what would've happened? To say "style A guarantees survival and Style B guarantees relegation" is complete nonsense for a number of reasons and you know it.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Tue May 02, 2017 1:57 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:What a load of crap.

B'mouth have survived playing good stuff. Hull play good stuff under their new manager and would be very comfortable had he been there all season.

Boro are going down playing very negative football as are Sunderland.

It's not crap we got relegated and concede 82 goals playing that style of football in 2009/10.Hull are still below us and haven't done much better away from home even under their new wonderful manager.Bournemouth are so much higher in the league than us aren't they oh wait....I repeat it's about results and staying up this season.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:00 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Don't be a berk, kbrfc, you know damn well that was put up in response to the original poster's observation re Dyche and our season - which most of us seem to agree has been a success. Oh look, so does a very experienced Prem manager, a manager who knows all about surviving against the big boys.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm content that we've survived - deservedly so - in what could have been a difficult season. As it is, we've gone through under hardly any relegation pressure whatsoever and are in a good position to perhaps create a little more next year.

You, on the other hand, would seem to prefer Dyche sets up to attack no matter what the consequences even relegation. I can't agree.

I didn't click the link which you posted mid debate with me in a sarcastic way. Why would I want my side to be relegated? Why can't there be some middle ground. To be fair I have been saying id like us to set up differently away from home all season, id have liked us to go at teams away and continue what has worked at home. In my opinion it doesn't matter if you lose 1-0 or 3-0 and Id have liked to see us go at teams away (West Ham and Stoke to name two) and lost 3-0 by trying to win than lost in the fashion we did by lacking intent like we did. We lost those games either way, what's the difference.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:01 pm

KRBFC wrote:Did I say Pulis doesn't know anything about PL football? I'm happy to debate football and put my point across and listen to yours but at least don't put words into my mouth and argue against things I haven't said for the sake of arguing with me.

Just to be clear, are you saying that we should take everything you say at face value?

Just wondering.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:04 pm

KRBFC wrote:I'm stating facts, we were outside the relegation zone when Coyle left, had he stayed and we got Wilshere and Holden. Who knows what would've happened? To say "style A guarantees survival and Style B guarantees relegation" is complete nonsense for a number of reasons and you know it.

Didn't say it guarantees survival or relegation.All I said is we got relegated playing one style of football and have survived playing Dyche style of football.The proof is in the bank balance of which one worked and that is what the Premier League is all about at this stage of our development.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:04 pm

KRBFC/Tall Paul, why don't you just arrange to meet and have a fight or something? ...or better still just ignore each other.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:04 pm

Jimscho wrote:It's not crap we got relegated and concede 82 goals playing that style of football in 2009/10.Hull are still below us and haven't done much better away from home even under their new wonderful manager.Bournemouth are so much higher in the league than us aren't they oh wait....I repeat it's about results and staying up this season.

Wait, you think Laws' football was attacking and attractive to watch?

Hull haven't had Marco Silva for a full season. You seem to be completely ignoring the obvious, you're comparing Laws' 09 team with Dyche's team now not even comparable for obvious reasons. You are basically saying "well Laws' attractive team in 09 were relegated so Dyches team now would be relegated if they played a more attractive style"

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:08 pm

Jimscho wrote:Didn't say it guarantees survival or relegation.All I said is we got relegated playing one style of football and have survived playing Dyche style of football.The proof is in the bank balance of which one worked and that is what the Premier League is all about at this stage of our development.

Why don't you go down both squad lists and compare the amount each player costs. Then look at the managers, we had Brian Laws ffs. Dyche with a £60M squad v Laws with a £8M squad, there's only one winner which makes it unfair to really compare.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:18 pm

KRBFC wrote:Wait, you think Laws' football was attacking and attractive to watch?
Hull haven't had Marco Silva for a full season. You seem to be completely ignoring the obvious, you're comparing Laws' 09 team with Dyche's team now not even comparable for obvious reasons. You are basically saying "well Laws' attractive team in 09 were relegated so Dyches team now would be relegated if they played a more attractive style"

Where have I said Laws team played attacking and attractive football.Please quote me if you can find it.Dont put words in my mouth that aren't there.I was discussing Coyles so called attractive football where we got hammered on a number of occasions and were on a downward spiral when he left us in the mire.Why is the 2009 side all about Laws in your mind and not about Coyle.Laws came in with 2 weeks left in the transfer window and made some ok signings and some not so good signings but the 2009 team and style and relegation was as much down to Coyle as Laws.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:21 pm

Jimscho wrote:It's not crap we got relegated and concede 82 goals playing that style of football in 2009/10.Hull are still below us and haven't done much better away from home even under their new wonderful manager.Bournemouth are so much higher in the league than us aren't they oh wait....I repeat it's about results and staying up this season.

All I am pointing out is you can quite easily stay up playing nice football. Too many people on here think the only way too stay up is play negative. It's not as I have given you a few examples there are plenty more.

If Coyle stayed I believe we would of stayed up. If Coyle stayed and we had Heaton instead of the Beast we would of romped it.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:22 pm

That is a lot of faith in Coyle considering his CV at every single club he has been at since us.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:24 pm

Jimscho wrote:Where have I said Laws team played attacking and attractive football.Please quote me if you can find it.Dont put words in my mouth that aren't there.I was discussing Coyles so called attractive football where we got hammered on a number of occasions and were on a downward spiral when he left us in the mire.Why is the 2009 side all about Laws in your mind and not about Coyle.Laws came in with 2 weeks left in the transfer window and made some ok signings and some not so good signings but the 2009 team and style and relegation was as much down to Coyle as Laws.

You said "we got relegated in 09 playing attractive football" which means you think we played attractive football under Laws, no? considering it was actually Laws' team that got relegated. Or is it Coyles fault we signed Leon Cort too? Coyle leaving certainly had an affect and contributed but his style of football is certainly nothing to do with it.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:25 pm

Coyle not only got us relegated, he did the same at Bolton, Wigan and hilariously (hopefully) Rovers.

You don't have to stick around 'til the end to do the damage. Luckiest manager ever...but only for one season.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:25 pm

claretdom wrote:That is a lot of faith in Coyle considering his CV at every single club he has been at since us.

Some managers click with some groups of players. Coyle has been a disaster since he left no doubt about it but he had something special here.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:27 pm

He had good motivation skills, a very good squad left by Cotterill and players with the knack of scoring screamers in the last five games of the season.

I couldn't believe what I was seeing either

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:29 pm

Guich wrote:Coyle not only got us relegated, he did the same at Bolton, Wigan and hilariously (hopefully) Rovers.

You don't have to stick around 'til the end to do the damage. Luckiest manager ever...but only for one season.

He left us outside the relegation zone.
B**tards were relegated long before he arrived, they've been a sinking ship for a while. Not that it really matters how crap a manager Coyle has turned out, he was excellent for us at the time and that's all that really matters in this debate.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:29 pm

Didn't he take Houston to the bottom of MLS too?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:31 pm

Guich wrote:Didn't he take Houston to the bottom of MLS too?

Probably he's a god awful football manager.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:32 pm

You're right - he did leave us outside the relegation zone in January, but without a win since October. It was only going one way after winning our first five home games, getting hammered in our first five away and then stopping winning at home.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:34 pm

Guich wrote:You're right - he did leave us outside the relegation zone in January, but without a win since October. It was only going one way after winning our first five home games, getting hammered in our first five away and then stopping winning at home.

With Vladimir Weiss, Jack Wilshere and Stuart Holden on the way id have backed us to stay up. There was just something about that team.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Tue May 02, 2017 2:37 pm

KRBFC wrote:With Vladimir Weiss, Jack Wilshere and Stuart Holden on the way id have backed us to stay up. There was just something about that team.

Its a shame Coyle wasn't as confident as you. He might not have ****** off then.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:00 pm

KRBFC wrote:With Vladimir Weiss, Jack Wilshere and Stuart Holden on the way id have backed us to stay up. There was just something about that team.

It's all Ifs and buts and maybes with you and Coyle and his 2009 team.The proof of the pudding with Dyche's team is we are now staying up.Not ifs and buts and maybe.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:03 pm

Jimscho wrote:It's all Ifs and buts and maybes with you and Coyle and his 2009 team.The proof of the pudding with Dyche's team is we are now staying up.Not ifs and buts and maybe.

Ok, well what about this fact. Dyche was relegated 2 years ago. More proof that your claim ''style A is survival, Style B guarantees relegation'' is complete nonsense. I have confidence in the squad, I believe we could have gone at teams more away from home and produces better than we've seen. West Ham away, lost 1-0 to a penalty, I'd have fancied us too get something from them if we showed the intent from the first whistle. Btw, your point about ''we were relegated in 09 playing attractive football'' is also ifs and buts considering you don't think Laws played attractive football and we were never actually relegated under Coyle.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:05 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:and v Everton, Saints,Watford, Leicester and Boro. We also deserved a point v City and Arsenal but there you go.

I must say evensteadiereddie I wasn't overly enthused by any of our performances against Everton Southampton Boro or Arsenal although three of them were unquestionably excellent results.. I totally agree we were very good against Watford now you've reminded me,, and I Left the Turf against City feeling we had certainly done enough to deserve a point.

Cooperclaret · Post by **Cooperclaret** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:06 pm

I was looking forward to reading this thread about the gaffer then, once again it turns into the ramblings of KBRFC.

The forum is being ruined by this fella.

Any action being taken Tony ?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:07 pm

RocketLawnChair wrote:I must say evensteadiereddie I wasn't over enthused by any of our performances against Everton Southampton Boro or Arsenal although three of them were unquestionably excellent results.. I totally agree we were very good against Watford now you've reminded me,, and I Left the Turf against City feeling we had certainly done enough to deserve a point.

Did we really go after any of them? if you take away the results and look at the performances the opinion of the games completely change to some fans. I thought we were good away at Everton regardless of the result, I thought we were poor against United (H) regardless of the result. Nothing changes with me, consistency, I'm not going to let the result over shadow my opinion on the performance.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:10 pm

"Nothing changes with me, consistency, I'm not going to let the result over shadow my agenda on the performance"

Quite right too, you keep rambling on as you said at least you are consistent

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:10 pm

Cooperclaret wrote:I was looking forward to reading this thread about the gaffer then, once again it turns into the ramblings of KBRFC.

The forum is being ruined by this fella.

Any action being taken Tony ?

Explain how I ruined this thread? I had friendly debate about football with Eddie and others. I don't see any issue in talking football, in fact it makes a refreshing change talking to Eddie about football and not personal attacks back and forward. You don't have to agree with everything I say, but too claim I'm ruining threads by offering my opinion politely is insane and childish.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:11 pm

claretdom wrote:"Nothing changes with me, consistency, I'm not going to let the result over shadow my agenda on the performance"

Quite right too, you keep rambling on as you said at least you are consistent

You ignored the positive in my post and edited one of my comments in a childish manner, now who's the one with the agenda?

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:12 pm

KRBFC wrote:Did we really go after any of them? if you take away the results and look at the performances the opinion of the games completely change to some fans. I thought we were good away at Everton regardless of the result, I thought we were poor against United (H) regardless of the result. Nothing changes with me, consistency, I'm not going to let the result over shadow my opinion on the performance.

Is that not basically what I said ?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:13 pm

RocketLawnChair wrote:Is that not basically what I said ?

Yeah I agreed with you

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:14 pm

KRBFC wrote:Yeah I agreed with you

I couldn't tell ! cheers

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:19 pm

KRBFC wrote:That simply isn't true though for a number of reasons.

1. Coyle never got us relegated
2. Laws' football was horrific
3. We have transformed incredibly since Laws, far more resources.
4. Dyche got relegated once
5. There is nothing to say this group of players would certainly be relegated with a more expansive system especially away.
6. Laws got relegated with a horrific style of play, no guarantee that this style of play is the only way to survive.
7. Other sides have survived playing a more attractive style of play, Swansea, Watford, Bournemouth to name a few.
8. Other sides have been relegated playing this way, Boro are one from this season.

1- He certainly played his part in it, despite your clear desperation that he isn't stuck with any of the blame.

2 & 6 - Laws, whilst probably not good enough, certainly wasn't helped by the players.
I'm sure I've read somewhere that the players did their own Leicester impression and didn't want to play for Laws.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:26 pm

Sidney1st wrote:1- He certainly played his part in it, despite your clear desperation that he isn't stuck with any of the blame.

2 & 6 - Laws, whilst probably not good enough, certainly wasn't helped by the players.
I'm sure I've read somewhere that the players did their own Leicester impression and didn't want to play for Laws.

I said "Coyle leaving certainly had an affect and contributed"
But according to you that's me desperately trying to claim Coyle isn't to blame. Whatever, I wont bother replying to your response, there's no point.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:45 pm

In the post I quoted you didn't make a comment about Coyle certainly contributing.

My apologies if I didn't spot it earlier on.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:49 pm

Sidney1st wrote:In the post I quoted you didn't make a comment about Coyle certainly contributing.

My apologies if I didn't spot it earlier on.

post 65 to be exact.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:52 pm

I'll accept I made a mistake then.

Out of interest do you honestly think his style of football would've kept us up?
By Xmas it already felt like we had slowed down and were about to fall by the wayside.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:55 pm

Sidney1st wrote:I'll accept I made a mistake then.

Out of interest do you honestly think his style of football would've kept us up?
By Xmas it already felt like we had slowed down and were about to fall by the wayside.

Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't really matter what I think would/could have happened. I was arguing a point "we got relegated in 09 playing attractive football" which I don't believe to be the case because I thought Laws' football was awful. While I think Coyle leaving played a major part in our relegation, you cant say his style of football was the reason for relegation.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:56 pm

We were relegated with naff football from Laws, but personally I think the wheels were in the process of falling off Coyle's supposedly attractive football.
I also think its why he jumped, he knew he couldn't see us safe.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:59 pm

I think our players did a bit of a 'Leicester' with Laws Sid. He wasn't the most exciting appointment, but the way Coyle behaved and the way we seemed to give in left a nasty taste after our first season in the Premier League.

Unlike now of course

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Tue May 02, 2017 4:00 pm

Sidney1st wrote:We were relegated with naff football from Laws, but personally I think the wheels were in the process of falling off Coyle's supposedly attractive football.
I also think its why he jumped, he knew he couldn't see us safe.

Yeah id agree with that although it was January and the 3 players supposedly on the verge of signing would have been excellent. Holden especially. Its not certain which way it would have went and its largely irrelevant. We certainly weren't relegated with attractive football though.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Tue May 02, 2017 4:01 pm

KRBFC wrote:Did we really go after any of them? if you take away the results and look at the performances the opinion of the games completely change to some fans. I thought we were good away at Everton regardless of the result, I thought we were poor against United (H) regardless of the result. Nothing changes with me, consistency, I'm not going to let the result over shadow my opinion on the performance.

funny that, Dyche always talks about performance levels rather than results. You get zero points for style in football, for the first 2 or 3 seasons (minimum) us staying in the PL will require battling wins over substance - then we might have enough money to attract more technically gifted players.

Would I prefer it if we played with the style of Bournemouth or Swansea (of previous seasons) of course I would, but I'll take average football and PL survival for the foreseeable over playing really well at Championship level any day of the week.

If you go back just 10 seasons I'd say we are well ahead of what anyone would think we were capable of and that should be applauded, far too easy to bitch and criticize (and i'm guilty of it too)

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue May 02, 2017 4:36 pm

Jimscho wrote:Under Coyle /Laws in the 2009/10 season we scored 42 and conceded 82 goal diff -40 points 30.This season so far scored 35 conceded 49 goal difference -14 points 39.If we scored 2 goals per game in next 3 games we would have scored almost the same number of goals.Were we so much more attacking or were we just crap at defending.I know which season i preferred and it wasn't 2009,which was embarrassing at times.

In the 2014-15 season we scored 28 goals and conceded 53 with 33 points. All of the teams were different though. Just think we spent a large part of that first season with Steven Jordan and Leon Cort playing!

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue May 02, 2017 4:59 pm

RocketLawnChair wrote:I must say evensteadiereddie I wasn't overly enthused by any of our performances against Everton Southampton Boro or Arsenal although three of them were unquestionably excellent results.. I totally agree we were very good against Watford now you've reminded me,, and I Left the Turf against City feeling we had certainly done enough to deserve a point.

We weren't exactly scintillating against any of them bar Watford but we deserved to beat Everton and Boro, got lucky against an excellent Southampton team and were robbed, outrageously, by the ref/lino v. Arsenal. A reasonable season's work at home, I'd say and certainly not boring. Well, not to me anyway.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Tue May 02, 2017 8:14 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:We weren't exactly scintillating against any of them bar Watford but we deserved to beat Everton and Boro, got lucky against an excellent Southampton team and were robbed, outrageously, by the ref/lino v. Arsenal. A reasonable season's work at home, I'd say and certainly not boring. Well, not to me anyway.

I thought a point each would have been fair against Boro personally, partly due to the awful conditions rather than either sides playing style, it was just a poor game.

Personally thought we were lucky as hell against Everton, we somehow won without really trying to win. They ran us daft second half.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue May 02, 2017 8:46 pm

Sidney1st wrote:We were relegated with naff football from Laws, but personally I think the wheels were in the process of falling off Coyle's supposedly attractive football.
I also think its why he jumped, he knew he couldn't see us safe.

Did you think the same before Saturdays win with Dyche's side.

As a side note Coyle did a very good job keeping Bolton up that were a very poor side before Xmas. His points total from both clubs that season would of been mid table easily.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue May 02, 2017 8:46 pm

Everton were shocking at the back.