More trouble in london

john'sroseyspecs · Post by **john'sroseyspecs** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:59 am

Lord Beamish wrote:I think it's quite telling about the law abiding nature of the Muslim Community around Finsbury Mosque that this animal was accosted by the witnesses to his senseless barbarity and handed to the Police alive.

Must admit i thought the same. Don't think i would have have that self control in similar circumstances. Got to have respect for the people who were there

billyhamilton82 · Post by **billyhamilton82** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:01 am

With so much unrest between communities its a good job "we" aren't doing anything that could potentially upset the Good Friday Agreement......

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:07 am

Can I just say that most white van drivers are peaceful members of society.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:09 am

We've only got your word for that Putthewheeliebinout.

Its not enough, we need action against them NOW!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:14 am

Being serious for a sec, its amazing that a country that has been stable for longer than any other in the world, is doing its best to rip itself apart because of a few daft newspaper editorials, a rich banker and a few idiots on either side.

It would be funny if it wasn't so serious.

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:17 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:We've only got your word for that Putthewheeliebinout.

Its not enough, we need action against them NOW!

Well i'm open to suggestions Lancasterclaret. Maybe evening classes 2 hours a week to re-educate them - courses covered could be road safety, anger management and diversity. I know that would be targeting a minority, but like you say we need to do something.

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:21 am

I also think it's time this country rise up against the Sun and the Daily Shite. Communities should come together and drive these idiots out of business, they are a relic of a by-gone era.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:28 am

Lord Beamish wrote:I think it's quite telling about the law abiding nature of the Muslim Community around Finsbury Mosque that this animal was accosted by the witnesses to his senseless barbarity and handed to the Police alive.

Sounds like the coward has got the imam from the local centre to thank for that.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:34 am

Wow. Some high horses around this morning. Almost like some of you couldn't wait for this to happen.

RIP to those that lost their lives

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:45 am

Spijed wrote:Why is it seriously grim the Uk?

I'd rather have our issues that the lawless gun violence that happens in every town and city in the USA on a daily basis.

what a totally ridiculous and inflammatory statement, every town and city in the USA, really, It's difficult to believe anything you write when you make these things up as you go along, your dislike for everything USA shines through, you sir area bigot of the first order in addition to a couple of other words I would like to but will not use.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:47 am

I am currently in London and walked right past shaftesbury Avenue yesterday. Very scary.

Heart goes out to the person who's life has been lost and also those injured. There are some evil people out there.

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:48 am

JohnMac wrote:It's a well used phrase but I doubt very much the Met are anywhere near at 'Breaking Point'. They will have had to shift a few arses out onto the streets but I'm sure there are still a few hundred more that can be shifted if push came to shove.

It's another organisation that seems to have 'reps' for a variety of things that take them out of uniform.

And it's still a job that has shift patterns and regulated hours so those involved will be coining in the overtime for extra shifts and breaking point is more likely to be linked to a budgetary term.

The security services, those involved in the war on terror are the ones who will be stretched.

Not a critisism of your post by the way, just my honest opinion.

I'm in the Met.

Response teams are running vastly below minimum, as officers are pulled to aid crime scenes, reassurance patrols, operations etc. The officers that have 'shifted out onto the street', as you put it, or already on the streets.

I've worked double shifts, and every shift I finish hours late. I'm not complaining, it's what I joined for. I don't have a break, I go from call to call, and get criticised from MOP why it's taken me so long to get there. My standard response is 'there just isn't enough of us'.

Upstairs in investigative roles, officers are juggling over 30 crimes. The Met as a whole are 800 detectives down.

I work in a London Borough where it's now the norm to parade 11-12 officers for a population of 250k. We aren't proactive anymore, simply because call volume is too high, and not enough of us to deal with 999 calls alone. I would suggest we need double the amount of officers on the street to be effective.

I think ordinary members of the public would be amazed at how little Police there are.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:53 am

TsarBomba wrote:I'm in the Met.

Response teams are running vastly below minimum, as officers are pulled to aid crime scenes, reassurance patrols, operations etc. The officers that have 'shifted out onto the street', as you put it, or already on the streets.

I've worked double shifts, and every shift I finish hours late. I'm not complaining, it's what I joined for. I don't have a break, I go from call to call, and get criticised from MOP why it's taken me so long to get there. My standard response is 'there just isn't enough of us'.

Upstairs in investigative roles, officers are juggling over 30 crimes. The Met as a whole are 800 detectives down.

I work in a London Borough where it's now the norm to parade 11-12 officers for a population of 250k. We aren't proactive anymore, simply because call volume is too high, and not enough of us to deal with 999 calls alone. I would suggest we need double the amount of officers on the street to be effective.

I think ordinary members of the public would be amazed at how little Police there are.

thanks for the info, and thanks for being there for us.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:54 am

Another very sad thread about people dying being turned into a political w@nk fest by all the usual suspects..

Time to either ban all political threads or move them to their own page..

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:54 am

One of my mates in a police officer. I'm not amazed at how little police they are, I'm amazed that people don't realise that there is a certain level of public services that you need and have to pay for, or stuff happens that shouldn't.

Looks like people are slowly realising though.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:56 am

Lord Beamish wrote:The man arrested is 48 years old. Tommy Robinson is 34.

That'll be close enough for some.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:03 am

Fair enough conyoviego

In my defence, it is very hot in the office today!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:04 am

Poor Tommy.

Must be tough carrying the weight of white supremacy on his shoulders, thats why he looks so old

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:07 am

Starting to sound like the terrorist in this case was from Wales. Lets use a bit of far right logic to tackle this problem in our country. Lets deport him to Cardiff so hes not our problem. Lets seek out, arrest and deport all Welsh Citizens. Lets ban the eating of leeks and melted cheese on toast. Lets ban the daffodil. Lets stop people being allowed to speak Welsh in public. Lets carpet bomb Llandudno and that train station with the stupid name. Lets take over Mount Snowdon and keep all the natural resources for ourselves. Lets make listening to Tom Jones and Kathryn Jenkins illegal. Lets build a big wall round The West Coast, stop The Irish getting in - theyre all same them Celts. Lets capture and kill all dragons and encourage Whaling - in fact anything to do with whales. That will show them. Theyre all the bloody same...

Sleeping Cat · Post by **Sleeping Cat** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:07 am

I live about 1/2 mile from Finsbury park and was actually there in the park itself yesterday. It is a very diverse and multicultural community and a very pleasant, friendly one to be around. This is really sad and, if found to be a terrorist attack, then it is an attack on British society regardless of who carried it out.

mkmel · Post by **mkmel** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:08 am

Right_winger wrote:Yeah and your just a typical leftie *******. Haven't you got some demonstrations to go to against the white "British" male?

You can use any excuse you like... anti gay, females rights, anti Islam, racism, hell even being a successful person because you don't share it around.

Hypocrites the left is full of them.

You don't half talk a load of bo llocks!

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:08 am

KateR wrote:what a totally ridiculous and inflammatory statement, every town and city in the USA, really, It's difficult to believe anything you write when you make these things up as you go along, your dislike for everything USA shines through, you sir area bigot of the first order in addition to a couple of other words I would like to but will not use.

Considering there are over 30,000 deaths per annum in the USA from gun related incidents I'd be surprised if there are any towns or cities that aren't affected frequently.

And when you have the NRA advocating more people arm themselves after a mass shooting is it any surprise there are so many deaths in the States?

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:11 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:One of my mates in a police officer. I'm not amazed at how little police they are, I'm amazed that people don't realise that there is a certain level of public services that you need and have to pay for, or stuff happens that shouldn't.

Looks like people are slowly realising though.

And it can't come too soon.

The closing of Police stations, neighbourhood offices, and custody suites, coupled with the reduction in Police numbers, has left us utterly reactive to crime.

We need to be out there, visible, and approachable. We need more local officers going into youth clubs, churches, schools, mosques, listening to disaffected kids, or sections of society feeling marginalised and forgotten.

Once you lose those links with society, lose the rapport and trust, it takes a bloody long time to build it back up again. The only way we'll do that is with more, not less.

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:15 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:I'm a young white male and I condemn this attack.

I'm a not quite so young white male and also condemn this attack

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:16 am

KateR wrote:what a totally ridiculous and inflammatory statement, every town and city in the USA, really, It's difficult to believe anything you write when you make these things up as you go along, your dislike for everything USA shines through, you sir area bigot of the first order in addition to a couple of other words I would like to but will not use.

Spijed hasn't inflamed anything. He asked a reasonable question, and added a fact-based opinion.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:19 am

I'm a white, male, van driver, I utterly condemn this attack, is this good enough for the SJW's on here ?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:24 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:This will be used as ammunition against every Islamic attack we face for the next decade as a means to misdirect and obscure its seriousness. They (liberals) have been waiting for something like this to happen for ages and will now finally have the trump card they desperately wanted.

I'm sad for those that lost their lives, and the pain of their families. Nothing good what so ever will come out of this attack for anyone.

Yep. Cos liberals really wanted this to happen. Just like we wanted Grenfell Tower to happen just so we could make a point.

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:25 am

Thought this was an early preview of next season`s Clarets trips down sarf.

android · Post by **android** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:26 am

Lancaster -who is the rich banker you are referring to in post 55?

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:26 am

For those who are scared to come to or live in London here are things to be genuinely scared of.

Spiraling rent
Tourists on Boris bikes
Rail replacement bus services
Heart disease (nationwide tbf)

Terrorism not even in my top 50.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:26 am

Spijed wrote:Considering there are over 30,000 deaths per annum in the USA from gun related incidents I'd be surprised if there are any towns or cities that aren't affected frequently.

And when you have the NRA advocating more people arm themselves after a mass shooting is it any surprise there are so many deaths in the States?

Where do you get your ridiculous numbers from? 30,000 deaths, yea am going to believe everything you write because you are so credible, pathetic really making things up to sensationalize, are you a reporter by trade!!

Just to help you, try looking at:

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Many deaths were also lawful, which means the police caused them, but the number of 7,097 deaths in 2016 is down from the +8,000 2014, the map will also show you where they occurred with great swathes of towns and city's having none.

It is not to justify anything, one death from gun violence is one to many and I am anti guns and think the laws need to be changed, but then again I think many laws in the UK & USA need to be changed.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:26 am

Right_winger wrote:Here we go all the libtards wanking over something to blame the "far right" and Middle Aged white straight male ( the most persicuted group )

Who else is to blame if it isn't this far right and middle aged white straight male? The victims? Are they to blame?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:29 am

Farage

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:46 am

The point is hardly anyone has blamed the whole Muslim community for extremist terror attacks which is why I wanted that statement qualified. The idiot that did this attack won't claim to
be part of any religious group and I doubt their are any teachings that have caused him to do this. He is just a thick coward who doesn't realise that this won't help matters. If someone on here suggests that the Muslim community could do more to route out individuals who may pose a threat there will be plenty on here that will be saying it's not Muslims fault and see this as an attack on the entire Muslim community which it is clearly not.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:47 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Yep. Cos liberals really wanted this to happen. Just like we wanted Grenfell Tower to happen just so we could make a point.

To be fair, you were the first person to post on this subject, and you chose to post a (presumably sarcastic) "This will solve everything" rather than making any suggestion of condolences or sadness that it had happened.

For the record, I am sad that it happened. It makes no difference as to the colour of anyone concerned. A man has died.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:48 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Farage

is he to blame more than
The London Bride Killers 1
The Manchester Child Killers
The London Bridge Killers 2
Their motivation goes right back to the Iraq wars, Bushes and Blairs
Their motivation goes back to the twin Tower plane bombers
Their motivation goes right back to the crusades
They were probably blaming the Moors
Anyone of any colour or creed who kills innocents is a monster.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:49 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Who else is to blame if it isn't this far right and middle aged white straight male? The victims? Are they to blame?

How do you know he's straight?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:49 am

dsr wrote:To be fair, you were the first person to post on this subject, and you chose to post a (presumably sarcastic) "This will solve everything" rather than making any suggestion of condolences or sadness that it had happened.

For the record, I am sad that it happened. It makes no difference as to the colour of anyone concerned. A man has died.

What point do you think you're making?

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:50 am

My last post before I go to work.

I used to be on a safer neighbourhood team in Morden, which some of you will know is at the end of the Northern Line.

I was assigned to a particular ward, and would be responsible for answering calls in that ward, as well as tackling ward priorities set by a local committee of residents. Also, if a sister team wasn't on duty, and a call came in to their ward, we would also cover that. And vice versa.

By and large, anything and everything would get dealt with, and in a timely fashion too. We would also help out the response teams if we could. We also introduced an initiative called 'street a week', and visited every resident in a particular street to talk to them about any concerns they had. If it was no reply at a property, we would put a leaflet through, introducing ourselves, letting them know where we were and how they could get hold us. If the residents were in, we could spend anything up to 10-15 minutes there, gleaning lots of information, and building trust.

To achieve this, there was a sergeant, and half a dozen PC's and PCSO's. It worked well, and results were tangible. We knew the problem addresses, the nuisance kids, we tackled brothels, and got them closed.

Inexplicably, and I can only imagine because of cuts, we have moved away from this in the Met. I have moved to a different part of London now, but I imagine it's the same where I was.

Gone are the six PC's/PCSO's and one sergeant. Now it is a mere one PC per ward. Calls aren't answered. All too often I hear 'Met CCC' call up for a particular ward, and there's silence. There isn't even anyone to answer on their behalf. There's a massive ASB problem where I am, and the best I/we can do is scare them off with our blue lights on the way to a call. We don't deal with local issues probably, but at best 'move it on'.

It makes me angry just thinking about the changes that have been enforced. The only thing I would ask of you all is if you do need Police, and for whatever reason they take a while to come, complain to your local MP, not us. I'm embarrassed that it takes us so long to come sometimes, and it's not much of a public service if you're not there when needed.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:50 am

Guich wrote:How do you know he's straight?

Right_winger told me. I was considering asking the same question.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:58 am

I don't think it's right to call this a terrorist attack. It's just an arsehole who thinks that what happened I'm Manchester and London justifies it.
Terrorists have networks, campaign agendas, a public voice, even if it only spouts bullshit.
Now if it turns out that this individual has links with other like minded people, fair enough, but to call it terrorism now is to undermine the fraudulence of the Islamic extremists rhetoric. They seek a holy war, let's not feed that agenda, by calling this nutter what he is.
A nutter, not a terrorist.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:02 am

I'm using Farage as an example of the type of politician that gets into these situations.

Demagogue.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:03 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:What point do you think you're making?

Just explaining to you why people might think "liberals" first thought wasn't to be sorry it happened. It's quite possible that your first thought when you heard this was to be sorry at yet another senseless tragedy. But your first post wasn't.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:15 am

I did wonder why the police helicopter was out last night. I know the area well, I've lived round there for many years. I was living round here when the police raided it whilst Abu Hamza was there and what it is now is a world of difference from what it was then. As another poster said, the area is multi-cultural with people getting along. The park yesterday was full of different creeds and races, some drinking and having barbecues, some fasting.

It was always going to happen though. Elements of the media, influential figures, etc have spent a long time ratcheting up the fear level over muslims and immigrants (often conflating the two).

Posters on here have said they have concerns over going to big events or cities which is totally out of proportion to the actual risk (but probably much more in proportion to some of the rhetoric).

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:17 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:Terrorists have networks, campaign agendas, a public voice, even if it only spouts bullshit.

Have you not seen any Britain's First posts on Facebook...? or the bile spouted by Tommy Robinson on all social media...? Both of these examples fit the description of having networks, campaign agendas, a public voice, even if it only spouts bullshit

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:24 am

aggi wrote:
Posters on here have said they have concerns over going to big events or cities which is totally out of proportion to the actual risk (but probably much more in proportion to some of the rhetoric).

That's one of the most sensible responses that I've read on here about the perceived terrorist threat.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:47 am

It's at times like these that I'm reminded of Norman Tebbits cricket test. England vs Pakistan at Lords, you are born and bred in this country, who are you supporting?

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:49 am

Some of the comments on this thread are churlish and pathetic.

I know there is an element of 'humour' in the white van man posts BUT I don't think anyone has ever asked for all muslims to be deported (I don't think that even a numpty like Tommy Robinson's recent rantings would suggest such action) just those with know links to terror plots etc.

I'll hazard a guess that this bloke is a no mark, not being watched as a terror threat. However, if it was known that he was a risk then yes, the same rules apply, lock him up, deport him if he's not from here, do something about him!

If he's a randmoer who just woke up yesterday and decided to kill people then regardless of faith or ethnicity it is impossible for the authorities to manage and stop such actions. If he was known to the authorities the it's a different matter entirely.

To suggest that by saying known threats need to be dealt with you are effectively chastising a whole faith or demographic of people is just stupid.

It's a strange scenario where we simply need to deal with what if, not what has/is! We need to be proactive rather than reactive.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:50 am

claretandy wrote:It's at times like these that I'm reminded of Norman Tebbits cricket test. England vs Pakistan at Lords, you are born and bred in this country, who are you supporting?

And if they say "Pakistan" then they should be mowed down outside their mosque. Right?

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:56 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I needed a laugh this morning

"white straight males are the most persecuted" is all most of us need!

Imagine being part of the most privileged group of people on the planet and thinking that?

The only privilege a person can be born with is wealth and status. That is the only factor that will influence a person's life better than those around them.

No matter how hard you try to push it, race, gender or sexual orientation does not grant you privilege.

If a gay, black woman is born a princess in Nigeria, she will live a life far beyond that of a straight white male born on stoops estate with far less restriction.