No CB?

forzagranata · Post by **forzagranata** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:31 pm

Steve1956 wrote:People going on about,what if one of Mee or Tarks gets injured? ...what if they both get injured what happens then?

Taylor and Long?

Its not a far-fetched scenario for that to be the case. Even if they are lucky enough to stay fit all year centre-halfs get cards in the PL after all.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:33 pm

summitclaret wrote:I think we all know the answer Steve if it is for more than a week or 2. Maybe Wells is a good signing just in case we go down.

Didn't we sign Wood ..with the Championship in mind?

Please forgive me I didn't really mean that.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:34 pm

Newcastle didn't expect 2 goalkeepers to get injured and we are prepared for that withe Ledgzins, but we aren't prepared for 2 centre backs to be injured even when there are two of them playing outfield in each game!

...and we sent out Anderson on Loan.

Something isn't right if you feel like that's okay! Fingers crossed still...I have a feeling like we must sign someone else!

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:35 pm

forzagranata wrote:Taylor and Long?

Its not a far-fetched scenario for that to be the case. Even if they are lucky enough to stay fit all year centre-halfs get cards in the PL after all.

We must have tried Forz,it just didn't come off,we have had long enough to sort that position out,it must be a worry to Dyche.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:35 pm

It's absolutely ******* mental that we're stuck for months and months with just 3 centre backs, with 2 of them completely unproven in the PL.

It really could see us relegated if there are injuries. As spice says, it's negligent to the extreme.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 pm

On the plus side, it means ABC will have to stop trying to move Tarks into midfield.

Every cloud and all that.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:39 pm

Sidney1st wrote:On the plus side, it means ABC will have to stop trying to move Tarks into midfield.

Every cloud and all that.

It won't stop him Sid!

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:42 pm

I have to agree with Spice. This is nothing short of negligence. If we're very lucky it won't affect us and we'll get someone in in January. If we're unlucky, this could really blow up in our faces.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:25 am

I wonder if Dyche is still registered as a player......

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:33 am

Wrong fit,
Wrong terms...

simple.

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:16 am

From what I gather, Dyche doesn't trust the overseas scouting network yet, so unless it's a bargain deal, we're limited to the top end of the English market.

If you consider how many players in the top two tiers are:

A) Affordable
B) Available
C) Good enough

You're looking at a very, very small pool and we won't be the only ones trying to recruit from it.

Until we're able to make use of wider markets, the number of players we can bring into the club who are better than what we have will be pretty limited.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:26 am

Agree with several of the posts on here that with an overseas scouting network not fit for purpose the club has restricted itself to dealing in the most expensive and restrictive of market places where central defenders are highly sought after and carry a price premium as a result. The fees and wages being asked put them well beyond our reach.

Until the club is in a position to source from the overseas as well as the domestic market with a degree of confidence we will always find ourselves priced out of deals and missing out on any potential foreign recruits within our budget.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:35 am

dsr wrote:Basically, what we all have to ask ourselves is, who knows more about the Burnley squad - Sean Dyche or ourselves? In my case, it's Sean Dyche; so if he says our centre half resources are fine, I'm willing to believe him. Obviously the rest of you can make your own minds up.

Obviously you haven't got a mind of your own , it's a ridiculous decision not to bring in decent cover

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:37 am

agreenwood wrote:From what I gather, Dyche doesn't trust the overseas scouting network yet, so unless it's a bargain deal, we're limited to the top end of the English market.

If you consider how many players in the top two tiers are:

A) Affordable
B) Available
C) Good enough

You're looking at a very, very small pool and we won't be the only ones trying to recruit from it.

Until we're able to make use of wider markets, the number of players we can bring into the club who are better than what we have will be pretty limited.

Good point about the overseas scouting network, but if reports from the likes of Chris Boden are to be believed, it sounds like Dyche genuinely hasn't been that arsed about even looking to sign a centre half all summer. Boden was basically saying that unless something presented itself (i.e. fell into our lap with a bow on it) we weren't really looking for a CB. Other people have alluded to a similar story.

Which just seems incredibly complacent. We're now going to run half of a PL campaign with Mee, Tarkowski and Long as our centre halves.

Hapag Lloyd · Post by **Hapag Lloyd** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:45 am

Has anyone seen Harry Flowers play ?

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:58 am

It's not as though we've taken a similar risk before and been bitten on the arse immediately is it?

I remember similar threads in January 2015 and 4 days later Marney did his cruciate, we put a square peg in a round hole for the rest of the season and unsurprisingly we went down.

This time we also have a situation where 2 of the 3 we have unproven and despite our good start we are already shipping a goal a game.

It's a stupid decision, reckless, negligent whichever you choose.....we just have to hope we get away with it.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:03 am

joey13 wrote:Obviously you haven't got a mind of your own , it's a ridiculous decision not to bring in decent cover

I've got a mind of my own, it's just that my mind can't get to grips with the idea that Dyche is a clueless dummy who knows less than almost anyone on here. I think Dyche is a very good manager; that doesn't make me mindless.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:06 am

If Mee and Tarks get injured we will have Long and a full back playing at centre half. Remember 3 years ago, we decided we didn't need another central midfielder, that Marney and Jones were enough. The very next game, Marney suffers a serious injury so we play Arfield in the middle. Our season fell away, as we were playing square pegs in round holes and were ultimately relegated.

We wouldn't take that risk again, would we??

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:10 am

dsr wrote:I've got a mind of my own, it's just that my mind can't get to grips with the idea that Dyche is a clueless dummy who knows less than almost anyone on here. I think Dyche is a very good manager; that doesn't make me mindless.

Honest question, dsr. Do you think Sean Dyche is capable of making mistakes? Do you think he's capable of making errors of judgement?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:29 am

Yes, but at the same time I'm sure that he had CB targets, and that they fell though.

He's then looked at it, and decided that in his opinion he's got enough cover there.

I don't agree with him on that, but he's the manager and he makes the decisions.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:31 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:This time we also have a situation where 2 of the 3 we have unproven and despite our good start we are already shipping a goal a game.

It's becoming obvious that Tarkowski is good enough to play at a decent level in the Prem. Obviously the jury is out on Kevin Long.

As for shipping goals, the only poor strike force we've been up against is WBA. I doubt many sides will stop Morata scoring or a team with Ali and Kane in it.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:40 am

I'm just baffled how we have made a profit on our transfers, not touched last seasons profits or Sky money and still not replaced Keane despite having many weeks to do it. We are much weaker in the CB department than last season and I just can't get my head around the fact we haven't been able to sign a CB at all. Even the likes of Roberts from Barnsley or Lees from Sheff Wed would have been decent cover.

vinrogue · Post by **vinrogue** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:43 am

At the start of last season did we just have Tarks as cover for Keane and Mee as Long was out on loan? Same type of situation as this season untried Tarks as our only recognised cover, Duff having retired. Signing a CB and saying you will sit on the bench all season a bit like Flannagan and Bamford did last season but if we get a chance you can play cup games, needs a certain player and I am not sure many of them exist at a moderate price in the mercenary world of transfer fee, agents fee, wages for bench warming fee, sub appearance bonus etc etc. Lowton played CB before, Ward played CB before, Taylor might be able to play CB, Cork played CB before and is a bit like Michael Carrick who had to do a job at Manchester United because they ran out of CB's!! UTC glass half full today

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:45 am

some good melodrama on this thread.

had we been looking for a centre half, which we weren't with any great urgency, we'd have been looking for someone who would to be happy to come in, knowing they were unlikely to play unless there were injuries. quite difficult to find someone who is good enough and willing to do that for the money we'd have to pay. we'd have been looking at another kevin long, who half the people on here already don't think is good enough.

i think we're fine at centre half. i'd have liked another one in but long is good enough cover and if dyche thinks taylor/ward/bardsley/pope/whoever can cover at 4th choice, that seems fair enough.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:50 am

I think there's a serious point about the future here as well as the legitimate concerns that we're taking a big risk in the present.

I assume what happened here is that Dyche looked at his overall budget and decided - no doubt after various enquiries and knock backs - that the restrictions within it meant that he didn't think he could bring in a defender of the requisite quality either at all or at least without diverting resources away from other areas.

And that leads into the wider point. At some point if we do survive again this season we will have to try ans kick on and start behaving like an established premier league club, including in terms of wages.

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:56 am

I'm happy with our first choice CB pairing and Long as our reserve. I just feel that we've taken a gamble in hoping that neither of the first choice pairing become injured/suspended at the same time. The decision to loan out our young CB who would no doubt be happy to sit in the reserves and train with the first team equally baffles me, considering we've chosen not to take on additional cover. In a worst case scenario, what do we do if Tarkowski, Mee and Ward are injured/suspended at the same time?

You would have thought that we've taken into account the mistakes made in the past with the midfield in our first Dyche PL season, however if the management think we have adequate cover then we have to take their opinion on it.

There's no doubt here - we've rolled the dice. Let's just hope it doesn't come back to haunt us.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:12 am

quoonbeatz wrote:some good melodrama on this thread.

had we been looking for a centre half, which we weren't with any great urgency, we'd have been looking for someone who would to be happy to come in, knowing they were unlikely to play unless there were injuries. quite difficult to find someone who is good enough and willing to do that for the money we'd have to pay. we'd have been looking at another kevin long, who half the people on here already don't think is good enough.

i think we're fine at centre half. i'd have liked another one in but long is good enough cover and if dyche thinks taylor/ward/bardsley/pope/whoever can cover at 4th choice, that seems fair enough.

I disagree with your premise, Quoon. The ideal centre back arrival this summer was someone to compete with Tarkowski, even if that meant relegating Long. This idea we should only be looking for a centre half worse than we already have - presumably to protect Long's feelings in the name of team spirit - is bizarrely contorted logic.

We dont progress as a club by building our strategy around 27 year olds who havent broken through to be a regular at Championship or premier league level after nearly 10 years of trying, and who have barely 100 games at any level in the top 4 english divisions.

JohnDearyMe · Post by **JohnDearyMe** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:18 am

We've got 18 league games until the next transfer window opens. So we have to hope we avoid any injuries or loss of form to Mee & Tarkowski.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:30 am

How was Long going to break through when for the majority of the time we have had combinations of Duff/Shackell/Mee/Keane playing in quite a successful team. He got the opportunity at Newcastle when Shackell was injured and then was injured himself after 20+ minutes on the field and was out of the game for 11 months before going on loan to Barnsley where he did well for them.
He only came into our team at the end of last season because of injuries and was called up for Ireland.
I know that he is 27, I know that he is not rated by lots of people, many who don't rate Tarkowski either, however, perhaps the manager and his staff and Martin O'Neill can see something in the player that makes him worthy of a place in the squad.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:37 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:Honest question, dsr. Do you think Sean Dyche is capable of making mistakes? Do you think he's capable of making errors of judgement?

Yes, everyone can make mistakes. But when it comes to assessing Burnley's squad, then if Dyche says one thing and I say the other, I'm not going to assume that I'm the one who knows and he's the one who doesn't. Especially not when there is no actual evidence or results to judge by.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:38 am

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:How was Long going to break through when for the majority of the time we have had combinations of Duff/Shackell/Mee/Keane playing in quite a successful team. He got the opportunity at Newcastle when Shackell was injured and then was injured himself after 20+ minutes on the field and was out of the game for 11 months before going on loan to Barnsley where he did well for them.
He only came into our team at the end of last season because of injuries and was called up for Ireland.
I know that he is 27, I know that he is not rated by lots of people, many who don't rate Tarkowski either, however, perhaps the manager and his staff and Martin O'Neill can see something in the player that makes him worthy of a place in the squad.

If we had so much faith in Long, why were we looking for a third choice centre back when we worked so hard to sign Tarks 18 months ago, rather than looking for a fourth choice so Long could step up? Or what about giving him a go 12 months before that when we signed Keane rather than give him a go?

The sudden converting to the idea Long is a ready made Premier League defender does not scan with the history of how weve approached Long's place in the squad over the past 5 years.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:38 am

dsr wrote:I've got a mind of my own, it's just that my mind can't get to grips with the idea that Dyche is a clueless dummy who knows less than almost anyone on here. I think Dyche is a very good manager; that doesn't make me mindless.

Who's said Dyche is clueless?
You haven't got a mind of your own because you automatically think he or the club never makes a bad decision and slag off other posters who have got a mind of their own.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:40 am

dsr wrote:Yes, everyone can make mistakes. But when it comes to assessing Burnley's squad, then if Dyche says one thing and I say the other, I'm not going to assume that I'm the one who knows and he's the one who doesn't. Especially not when there is no actual evidence or results to judge by.

Evidence was clear last season when Keane was out injured, Long and Tarks isn't a good option.

Zesty · Post by **Zesty** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:42 am

What are they doing with the money from this season tv etc, we've made a profit so far, so we must have a hell of a lot of money in the bank?

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:42 am

claretspice wrote:I disagree with your premise, Quoon. The ideal centre back arrival this summer was someone to compete with Tarkowski, even if that meant relegating Long. This idea we should only be looking for a centre half worse than we already have - presumably to protect Long's feelings in the name of team spirit - is bizarrely contorted logic.

We dont progress as a club by building our strategy around 27 year olds who havent broken through to be a regular at Championship or premier league level after nearly 10 years of trying, and who have barely 100 games at any level in the top 4 english divisions.

Not sure how you've gleaned any of that from my post, Spice; it isn't what I said at all.

The ideal centre back arrival this summer was someone who we feel can step up but is willing to bide their time – just like Tarkowski has. Mee and Tarkowski are our 1st choice partnership – Tarkowski is Keane’s replacement. Aside from injury or a serious loss of form, that isn’t going to change.

So we’re fishing in a smaller pool there already. Long is an adequate reserve but we essentially want another Tarkowski. We’re not looking for a player worse than what we have; we’re looking for one as good as or with the potential to be as good as what we have but who is happy to wait. That makes it more difficult and its easy to see why Dyche had other priorities. Kevin Long’s feelings are irrelevant.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:44 am

Oi Spice, stop arguing the same point with different posters on different threads!

I'm insulted!

ExistentialWanderer · Post by **ExistentialWanderer** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:48 am

It's quite feasible we were in for a centre half and were priced out, they weren't worth the over-inflated prices etc. We don't know but have to trust our recruitment team know their onions. I'm not going to sit here and say I am not worrried IF Tarks or Mee gets injured, even more so if both and Ward were to pull up injured. One can only hope for the best and have not seen anything to suggest Tarks and Mee cannot form a good partnership. They both were excellent against Spurs, probably one of the better sides we'll come up against.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:48 am

quoonbeatz wrote:Not sure how you've gleaned any of that from my post, Spice; it isn't what I said at all.

The ideal centre back arrival this summer was someone who we feel can step up but is willing to bide their time – just like Tarkowski has. Mee and Tarkowski are our 1st choice partnership – Tarkowski is Keane’s replacement. Aside from injury or a serious loss of form, that isn’t going to change.

So we’re fishing in a smaller pool there already. Long is an adequate reserve but we essentially want another Tarkowski. We’re not looking for a player worse than what we have; we’re looking for one as good as or with the potential to be as good as what we have but who is happy to wait. That makes it more difficult and its easy to see why Dyche had other priorities. Kevin Long’s feelings are irrelevant.

With £100m+ in the bank, why are we still looking to take chances?

Just go and buy a proper defender with the £30m we've just got for one. Don't try and fudge it on the cheap.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:51 am

Yeah, cos everyone else got every player they wanted.

Its just like Championship Manager, but with real people when you think about it like that.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:54 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:I don't agree with him on that, but he's the manager and he makes the decisions.

Of course he is and of course he does. Nobody has suggested otherwise. Fans are still entitled to question those decisions, though.

The most prickly responses on this thread (and others) seem to be from posters who think that others have no right to question Sean Dyche's decisions. It's a bit weird, to be honest.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:57 am

If Tarks is as sensitve as some people seem to think, I would rather we had signed a starter cb and swopped to 352, than take the risk with have just done.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:11 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:With £100m+ in the bank, why are we still looking to take chances?

Just go and buy a proper defender with the £30m we've just got for one. Don't try and fudge it on the cheap.

Another deluded on who thinks we got £30m for Keane and sitting with £100m in the bank.Think we had better start paying some of our bills and wages.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:11 am

Given the faith now placed in our potential centre backs like Taylor, Ward, Bardsley, Cork, Lowton and maybe even Barnes, Sam or Wood, perhaps 1 of them will partner Long against Leeds now. I certainly would not be risking Mee and Tarks?

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:15 am

Jimscho wrote:Another deluded on who thinks we got £30m for Keane and sitting with £100m in the bank.Think we had better start paying some of our bills and wages.

Ok smart alec, so go and structure a deal for a good player in the same way the fee we have just agreed is structured.

Will that do?

Or should we just say spend what you're bringing in, which is over and above the budgeted funds?

Simpler isn't it.

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:27 am

I hope everyone has their Meds up to date especially their blood pressure pills, some on here definitely need them

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:30 am

joey13 wrote:Who's said Dyche is clueless?
You haven't got a mind of your own because you automatically think he or the club never makes a bad decision and slag off other posters who have got a mind of their own.

There is a widespread view on this board that (1) our centre halves are inadequate, and (2) Sean Dyche hasn't noticed. If both those things were ture, then Sean Dyche would be clueless. The posters I "slag off" are the ones who can't get their heads round the concept that Dyche knows what he's doing.

ClaretEngineer · Post by **ClaretEngineer** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:31 am

CnBtruntru wrote:I hope everyone has their Meds up to date especially their blood pressure pills, some on here definitely need them

Some folk need a smoke, a pancake and a shag.

Jimscho · Post by **Jimscho** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:32 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:Ok smart alec, so go and structure a deal for a good player in the same way the fee we have just agreed is structured.

Will that do?

Or should we just say spend what you're bringing in, which is over and above the budgeted funds?

Simpler isn't it.

Think you're the simpler one.All I was doing was saying you are delusional if you think we got £30m for Keane and sat with £100m in the bank .What the rest of your reply is about I don't know.Doesnt make sense in the context of my post.Been reading your posts on numerous threads.Are you trying to take over the mantle of ABC in his absence.

BillyIngham'sShorts · Post by **BillyIngham'sShorts** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:34 am

Remember that Dyche may well have a direct vested interest in how the Keane money is spent as part of his pay package will probably be linked to Club profit. I don't know what Dyche's deal is, but as a sports lawyer I know that other managers have this in their contract. May explain absence of CB, but then again, it may be because we have 2 FBs who can play CB and Long, all of whom can do a job.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:35 am

BillyIngham'sShorts wrote:Remember that Dyche may well have a direct vested interest in how the Keane money is spent as part of his pay package will probably be linked to Club profit. I don't know what Dyche's deal is, but as a sports lawyer I know that other managers have this in their contract. May explain absence of CB, but then again, it may be because we have 2 FBs who can play CB and Long, all of whom can do a job.

Hahaha