Winger replacements

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:51 pm

Ward Prowse is really a central midfielder rather than a wide wise man isn't he?

It will be interesting to see what Pardew's plans for WBA are. He's the sort of manager who will want to put his stamp on the team in January and he likes a bit of flair out wide. I'm not entirely sure James MacLean for example is his sort of player (he was on the bench yesterday) and he's an obvious fit for us.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:52 pm

jrgbfc wrote:The fact that we haven't offered him a contract extension yet and it expires this summer suggests to me he'll be on his way. Dyche usually doesn't let them get into their final year if it's someone he wants to keep.

So you were making it up. How do you know we haven't offered him a deal?

Iloveyoubrady · Post by **Iloveyoubrady** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:16 pm

claretspice wrote:Ward Prowse is really a central midfielder rather than a wide wise man isn't he?

Yes, he'd be perfect for us as he could play wide (he does sometimes) well while Brady is out and could come into Hendricks position once Brady is back. He is great in the CAM position due to his quality. He isn't quick but is very good at crossing so is decent out wide. Having a right foot and left foot set play specialist would be good as well. I'd hope we pay anything under £16 million (or maybe more) if dyche wants him.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:28 pm

Iloveyoubrady wrote:
Yes, he'd be perfect for us as he could play wide (he does sometimes) well while Brady is out and could come into Hendricks position once Brady is back. He is great in the CAM position due to his quality. He isn't quick but is very good at crossing so is decent out wide. Having a right foot and left foot set play specialist would be good as well. I'd hope we pay anything under £16 million (or maybe more) if dyche wants him.

No harm, but I disagree entirely that what we need now is to replace Brady with someone who isn't quick, doesn't get into the box to score goals, and wants to play centrally rather than stretching the game. And I equally disagree that we need to replace the one midfielder in our set up who has power, pace and athleticism with someone else who is really in the mould of Defour and Cork, just not as good.

The winger we wanted in the summer was pacey and direct (Lennon). I think that opposite JBG (with Arfield his alternative), that is still the requirement when we go into the market in the summer, which is why I mentioned Maclean. But speaking of home grown Southampton players who might be a good option for us, I see Josh Sims, who burst onto the scene against us last season and has a big reputation, seems to be on the margins at Southampton and I'd argue he might be the better player to be looking at down there.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:36 pm

Neymar is unsettled

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:02 pm

I am not sure I see the relevance in players “deserving” a place. Apart from their near £1m salary players deserve nothing. Our current crop will get a chance for at least half a dozen games though.

Our approach to this probable season ending injury (having freeze-framed the Sky coverage I am not optimistic) will determine if our eye is on 7th or 17th. The progressive sides continually improve - Man Utd lose Ibrahimovich so buy Lukaku. Ratchet that logic down to our level, and we have the cash spare to improve on Brady (or to improve on someone else too when Brady is back).

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:41 pm

Arfield was poor when he came on.His annoying habit at pointing to colleagues while he stands and does nothing is particularly annoying.
We all know he can't play midfield so why does he get the nod.Taylor played wide for Leeds and is a good crosser and good distributor.
Scottie has scored some wonder goals but is caught on the ball dithering too often
We can survive without Robbie but yesterday we lost Defour and we're lucky to only loose 1-0 as Corky was covering both absent creative players.
Ist half we were unlucky and a rare goal keeping error lost us the points
That said Nick kept the score down with excellent second half saves .It was a shame his team mates did raise their game to a.least get a draw.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:00 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:Arfield was poor when he came on.His annoying habit at pointing to colleagues while he stands and does nothing is particularly annoying.
We all know he can't play midfield so why does he get the nod.Taylor played wide for Leeds and is a good crosser and good distributor.
Scottie has scored some wonder goals but is caught on the ball dithering too often
We can survive without Robbie but yesterday we lost Defour and we're lucky to only loose 1-0 as Corky was covering both absent creative players.
Ist half we were unlucky and a rare goal keeping error lost us the points
That said Nick kept the score down with excellent second half saves .It was a shame his team mates did raise their game to a.least get a draw.

1st point, I would say that if we are to play SA, he would be best used where Hendrick is currently playing, which would then place Hendrick on the left, may not be so bad I suppose.
2nd. Goalkeeping error or not, where was Bardsley, who left Gray? Not the only time either. I hope Lowton is fit soon.

Cirrus_Minor · Post by **Cirrus_Minor** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:28 pm

Ings, Austin, Keane, Gray and Heaton were all players that were seen as irreplaceable but we did. Not only replace but continued to improve. So I have every hope that Dyche will manage the team by 'growing' someone into Brady's position or maybe has a ready made replacement lined up in January.

Keep the faith and trust in Dyche.

Dazzler · Post by **Dazzler** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:33 pm

Not predominantly a wideman but Ollie Watkins at Brentford springs to mind.
Although may not be quite ready for the PL.

kaptin1 · Post by **kaptin1** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:36 pm

boatshed bill wrote:1st point, I would say that if we are to play SA, he would be best used where Hendrick is currently playing, which would then place Hendrick on the left, may not be so bad I suppose.
2nd. Goalkeeping error or not, where was Bardsley, who left Gray? Not the only time either. I hope Lowton is fit soon.

Exactly. If Bardsley had tracked Gray instead of standing ball watching then he would probably have been there to clear Pope’s parry.

OrientMascot · Post by **OrientMascot** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:38 pm

CM bang on! It’s the framework that makes the players not vice-versa. While I agree to a certain extent that SA isn’t as effective as Brady...he will be against Spurs, Man Utd & Liverpool over Xmas & NY.
No matter who plays under Dyche we are guaranteed 100% effort.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:41 pm

I'd love Andone but he wouldn't have the defensive ability our widemen have.
This season for Coruna 6 starts, 1 goal & 6 subs,1 goal. So he's not starting every week and yet they are quoting his buy out fee of €30m.
Play him in the hole with either Hendrick wide right or bring Taylor in on the left.
Nothing against Scotty, he looked short of matches yesterday but he doesn't have the creativity or crossing ability we now need.

kaptin1 · Post by **kaptin1** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:47 pm

Arfield has played a lot of Premier League games now, has had good ones and bad ones, but has shown that, on his day, he can be very effective as a left winger. Taylor and Wells have yet to play in the Premier League and neither would have left wing as their best position. Now it may be that both can eventually do better than Arfield in that position, but it would seem to be a big leap of faith to assume either can come in and immediately do better.

OrientMascot · Post by **OrientMascot** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:49 pm

piston broke wrote:I'd love Andone but he wouldn't have the defensive ability our widemen have.
This season for Coruna 6 starts, 1 goal & 6 subs,1 goal. So he's not starting every week and yet they are quoting his buy out fee of €30m.
Play him in the hole with either Hendrick wide right or bring Taylor in on the left.
Nothing against Scotty, he looked short of matches yesterday but he doesn't have the creativity or crossing ability we now need.

You’d love Andone??? €30m 1 goal & can’t defend, sounds like a good’n???? Give me Scotty Arfield anyday!

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:50 pm

Massive blow losing Brady as he was playing brilliant and he's a quality player who can change the game.

But we are in a fortunate position that's it's not that long till January and we have plenty of money to sign a new player.

As one door closes another one opens and all that !

Hopefully we can identify someone in the next few weeks and bring him in early in the window.

In the meantime all these games in the next 6 weeks will be a big test for the team - but we seem to have a manager and a team who enjoy rising to the challenge and after the way the season has gone so far nothing would surprise me.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:54 pm

OrientMascot wrote:You’d love Andone??? €30m 1 goal & can’t defend, sounds like a good’n???? Give me Scotty Arfield anyday!

Playing or not in a poor side. Every time I've seen him he looks useful. And it's 2 goals, in total.

OrientMascot · Post by **OrientMascot** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:56 pm

piston broke wrote:Playing or not in a poor side. Every time I've seen him he looks useful. And it's 2 goals, in total.

Needs to be better than useful for €30m!

clentclaret · Post by **clentclaret** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:11 pm

Ollie Watkins at Brentford, pace to burn and I’m sure SD would sort him out with the defensive side of things

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:48 pm

kaptin1 wrote:Exactly. If Bardsley had tracked Gray instead of standing ball watching then he would probably have been there to clear Pope’s parry.

Thank you.

Iloveyoubrady · Post by **Iloveyoubrady** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:53 pm

clentclaret wrote:Ollie Watkins at Brentford, pace to burn and I’m sure SD would sort him out with the defensive side of things

He's a good one, can play up front/ as the second forward (Hendricks position) as well as on the wings.

Dazzler · Post by **Dazzler** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:35 pm

Oi,that was my shout..

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:47 am

Ehm I think some may be setting themselves up for another disappointment in the next transfer window.

Walters will be backup winger for Scotty.

Bench will be Lindegaard, Long, Vokes, Barnes, Bardsley, Wells, Walters

Taylor may make the bench as Walters isn't yet match fit.

Ulvestad also has been playing on the wing pre season and maybe for dev squad too.

Agyei is back from Walsall and Ginnelly can be recalled too. Admittedly Agyei is striker but he is left footed and can play on the wing too.

Then there's Barnes.

Don't think Wells will suit playing on the wing in a 4 or 5 midfield, maybe if we played him up top in a 433.

Also in pre season Dyche experimented playing 433 so maybe we will see that.

This is the way I look at it anyway, if we sign someone then all the better but I'd rather keep it a surprise rather than an expectation.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:01 am

Has to be Taylor. The lads been patient, he must be chomping at the bit. He's played that role before, won't require training in the defensive duties, so many of our wingers have had to do. A natural left footer to compliment JBG on the right.

vinrogue · Post by **vinrogue** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:03 am

There are enough options for the Gaffer and in him we must trust. Arfield, Wells, Taylor, Walters or even Barnes as direct replacement for Brady out wide, or Hendrick with the possibility of bringing in Westwood or Arfield in the 3rd Midfield role currently held by Hendrick. The need to panic buy doesn't seem that strong anymore and when you remember back to the days when we just had Marney and Jones and then Deano gets injured that was a grim January PL month!

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:37 am

Vegas Claret wrote:Last season I would say Arfield was a shoe in next week, it'll be interesting to see what Dyche does as I think he's been a bit braver in terms of selection this season.

He does seem to have a bit more faith in Arfield than many fans do though. Arfield has been an excellent servant for Burnley without a doubt but we have outgrown him now and at best he is a decent sub. The loss of Brady has come at a time when he was starting to look like the player we paid so much for, I believe we will miss him but I'm sure there is no cause for too much concern. Still a top ten finish even if he doesn't kick another ball this season.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:51 am

Down_Rover wrote:I hope the club are looking for potential cover for Brady but we have 5 or 6 games before a newbie can land so the priority must be to shuffle the squad first. If that works then no need to buy a winger in January and money can be spent on original targets

In the squad we have Marney Wells Walters and a versatile Hendrick. Maybe there is a solution among these players. There has to be for rest of December, then let’s see.

Marney = played no serious football in an age and prone, as we all know, to serious injury. Not even convinced he can make a proper comeback.
Wells = would like to see him given a go but untried and doesn't come here with a great pedigree.
Walters = I have questioned (hopefully wrongly) his signing in the first place but what the hell is a 34 year old going to do on the wing - come on.
Not inspired by these three at all.

Down_Rover · Post by **Down_Rover** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:04 am

houseboy wrote:Marney = played no serious football in an age and prone, as we all know, to serious injury. Not even convinced he can make a proper comeback.
Wells = would like to see him given a go but untried and doesn't come here with a great pedigree.
Walters = I have questioned (hopefully wrongly) his signing in the first place but what the hell is a 34 year old going to do on the wing - come on.
Not inspired by these three at all.

All I was trying to do was demonstrate we have many options before we get the chequebook out. We don't know enough about the three above and certainly not enough to write them off before splashing the cash. Same applies to Taylor, and to some extent Arfield who, Saturday aside, has played well this season. Also, Walters often played wide for Stoke, and was quite effective.

The truth is that we have to try some of these options before January anyway.

It just seems to me that we are turning into Manure fans who prefer to splash the cash on individuals they know nothing about other than those already on the books. Nearly all the above have signed recent contracts so SD must have plans for them. It is an opportunity for someone to make a mark and we should give them a chance

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:13 am

Turning into Manure fans - rubbish. As I said earlier, we were already a winger short in the squad (as Boyd not replaced). What the hell is the PL 100m minumum for? We got relegared and made a 30m profit. 15m is not even the fencing around he ranch.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:08 am

Down_Rover wrote:All I was trying to do was demonstrate we have many options before we get the chequebook out. We don't know enough about the three above and certainly not enough to write them off before splashing the cash. Same applies to Taylor, and to some extent Arfield who, Saturday aside, has played well this season. Also, Walters often played wide for Stoke, and was quite effective.

The truth is that we have to try some of these options before January anyway.

It just seems to me that we are turning into Manure fans who prefer to splash the cash on individuals they know nothing about other than those already on the books. Nearly all the above have signed recent contracts so SD must have plans for them. It is an opportunity for someone to make a mark and we should give them a chance

Yeah mate I know what you mean but I think we are at a stage in development now where maybe we should be thinking about spending some of the money that we have. The PL money alone means we can afford the players (whilst acknowledging that it's wages and not fees that are a problem) but then we have somewhere in the region of 40 million plus from Kean and Gray (depending on who you believe as to how much we actually got for them).
I don't believe now is the time to be relying on aging players prone to injury who haven't played for ages, untried and as yet untested players who hardly anyone had heard of before we signed them or aging strikers who have been signed more for experience than anything else. These are squad players yes, but they are not REPLACEMENTS for regular players if we are to achieve the reality (and it IS a reality) of a top ten finish. Yes Wells may have the wherewithal to be a first team regular but even he has been crocked since we got him. If he is fit maybe now is the time to give him a chance.
As far as splashing money on players we know nothing about that wouldn't happen would it? I don't believe any club signs a player they know nothing about, they have usually been tracked and looked at and carefully scrutinised before they are taken on, especially at our club with Sean Dyche in charge of things.
I'm all for promoting from within but I believe (unlike some) that we have no-one at the club just now who can readily replace Brady. I've been a fan all along and although he has been a little inconsistent he has recently been in sparkling form and that kind of talent, when he is at his best, is not easily replaceable.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:13 am

I've read the entire thread and nothing has made me think that Arfield would be a good replacement. It's Taylor for me.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:56 am

The criticism of Arfield on here is bizarre.

Dyches mantra is the minimum requirement is maximum effort. And Arfield epitomises that as well as what the team and the club are all about.

Knoes the system inside out. Knows whats expected. Works very hard. Tries to be creative. And scores some exciting and important goals.

He will also have a point to prove. Hes been a great player for hs down the years and i hope we have him for a few more yet. He was fantastic at spurs playing in the hole and is one of our players who will try things.

Hopefully we get another winger in. We needed one even with Brady. But for the next 4 weeks ive no issue having Arfield. Hopefully he makes it impossible for whoever does come in to take the oppprtunity from him.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:00 pm

We are not turning into Man United fans, some of you are turning into exactly what used to **** everybody off about Rovers fans.

Arfield is fine, and has been fine for a while, which is why he's still here and why SD values him.

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:04 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:We are not turning into Man United fans, some of you are turning into exactly what used to **** everybody off about Rovers fans.

Arfield is fine, and has been fine for a while, which is why he's still here and why SD values him.

Cant value him that much if no new contract has been offered

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:13 pm

summitclaret wrote:Turning into Manure fans - rubbish. As I said earlier, we were already a winger short in the squad (as Boyd not replaced). What the hell is the PL 100m minumum for? We got relegared and made a 30m profit. 15m is not even the fencing around he ranch.

What do you mean Boyd not replaced?

Are you suggesting we have struggled without a suitable replacement?

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:28 pm

Reecey1987 wrote:Cant value him that much if no new contract has been offered

How do we know no contract has been offered?

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:28 pm

Lineup for training this week:

JBG----Defour----Cork----Taylor
--------------Wells
--------------Wood

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:39 pm

Thought it was obvious that we had a gap in the SQUAD on the wing after boyd left or were the attempts to sign Lennon not true.

No Ney Never · Post by **No Ney Never** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:41 pm

Mala591 wrote:Lineup for training this week:

JBG----Defour----Cork----Taylor
--------------Wells
--------------Wood

Given how Watford have been playing so far, that appears quite a pacey line up that could quite well hit them on the counter.
Who lined up at right back, Bardsley or Lowton?

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:02 pm

Mala591 wrote:Lineup for training this week:

JBG----Defour----Cork----Taylor
--------------Wells
--------------Wood

Is this a statement of what is happening, or what you'd like to see in training?

Indecisive · Post by **Indecisive** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:02 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:We are not turning into Man United fans, some of you are turning into exactly what used to **** everybody off about Rovers fans.

Arfield is fine, and has been fine for a while, which is why he's still here and why SD values him.

As much as we like to think otherwise, we are exactly like every other club in the land....in that we have a decent number of impossible to please, fickle and unrealistic numpties within our fanbase.

Anyone who isn't over the moon with our current situation needs a reality check of epic proportions.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:04 pm

*Round of applause* for Indecisive

Turftalkers mentor · Post by **Turftalkers mentor** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:46 pm

Sooner or later somebody will have to be promoted from within or its pointless having them . what about Josh Ginelly

Iloveyoubrady · Post by **Iloveyoubrady** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:49 pm

Mala591 wrote:Lineup for training this week:

JBG----Defour----Cork----Taylor
--------------Wells
--------------Wood

But wells doesn't play in that position. Fully expect Hendrick there with arfield out left and possibly wells on the bench.
I'd like that but won't happen.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:59 pm

Iloveyoubrady wrote:But wells doesn't play in that position. Fully expect Hendrick there with arfield out left and possibly wells on the bench.
I'd like that but won't happen.

I can't comment as I still don't know if he was stating that was what was happening in training, or whether it's just guesswork.

If it's guesswork, no comment needed. Otherwise, I think it's an interesting move and wouldn't mind seeing it next game.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:02 pm

Mala is guessing, and more than likely incorrectly. He's previously put forward this notion of Wells playing behind a striker:

Mala591 wrote:Agree with claretandy. Hendrick should compete with JBG for right midfield position. If I were SD then this lineup would be my objective.

.....................Defour....Cork
JBG/Hendrick......................Brady
.................Wells
.................................Wood

Iloveyoubrady · Post by **Iloveyoubrady** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:05 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Mala is guessing, and more than likely incorrectly. He's previously put forward this notion of Wells playing behind a striker:

And Wells doesn't even play behind the striker. He plays up front or on the sides of a front 3

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:44 pm

I've seen Alejandro Darío Gómez play a couple of games for Atalanta recently and he looks a class act. He's 29 though so maybe a bit old. However, he's a lad who plays in any of the front 4 positions of a 4-2-3-1. Good workrate and real quality on the ball. He's scored 29 in 107 Serie A games so not a bad return for an attacking midfielder.

I'm sure Sean has his eye on someone though and the Board simply have to back him in January given the incredible start to the campaign we've had. We shall see.

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:16 pm

Some real nonsense here on Arfield, a player who's almost always played wide midfield under Dyche, and played well - he's certainly never let anyone down, or had the groans from the stands that Brady or Boyd had. He scores important goals, always picks up threatening positions when attacking and gives good protection to the fullback.

The problem we've got now is that we've no-one to come from the bench to play wide midfield when fatigue sets in for either JBG or Arfield, or we get another injury (god forbid). The square pegs for those round holes are Hendrick, Barnes, Wells, Walters (when fit) or Taylor. The round peg that will start games and do a better job than any of the square pegs is Arfield.

We were already a wide midfielder light in my opinion, so if Brady's out most of the rest of the season I'd hope in January we look to bring 2 in, 1 of them a short term option or prospect maybe.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:27 pm

JBG to the left, Scotty on the right for me, lovely round pegs in lovely round holes.