It gives me no pleasure to pick Michael Keane as our match winner

[Papabendi]

Was it a goal if he wins the header?

[taio]

Was it a goal if he wins the header?

If you're on about Keane then he wasn't meant to be marking Wood and therefore wasn't the right side of him to win the header - Williams was meant to be marking him. The second definintely wasn't Keane's fault.

[Colburn_Claret]

I feel for MK, he is getting loads of stick on the Everton forum, and has for a long time.
On the few occasions I've watched Everton this season it's always looked like the dross around him that is the biggest problem. That and the never ending change of players and formation.
Defending is done as a unit, and the Everton defence is crap, not just MK.

They would quite happily sell him, and I'm sure if he goes to a better organised defence, with better players, he'll be pushing for an England shirt again. I just hope they don't ruin him completely meantime. I thought he looked fairly good for the most part, despite Ash having a man of the match performance.The first goal was a sublime pass, and the second was down to Williams, as usual, but too many Toffees are happy to blame Keane.

[Hipper]

Burnley defend much better as a team then Everton and are usually more defensive generally, therefore our defenders get better protection and there are less expectations for positive play. It's therefore difficult to judge if a Burnley defender can make it other, more attack minded, clubs.

Keane may be capable of moving up but Everton are in such disarray that there aren't many, if any players at that club that are doing themselves justice. The only players on their team yesterday that would interest me are Coleman and Rooney, and, from past performances, Gueye (Gana).

[jdrobbo]

Keane was signed by Koemam; a master at his craft. However, he didn't budget for the total loss of framework...and Ben Mee.

[nil_desperandum]

Keane was signed by Koemam; a master at his craft. However, he didn't budget for the total loss of framework...and Ben Mee.

There's an important point there.
Keane looked twice the player for us when he moved from the left to the right and we played Mee alongside.
Apart from the "Mee effect", maybe he's just a lot better on his natural side.

[Papabendi]

If you're on about Keane then he wasn't meant to be marking Wood and therefore wasn't the right side of him to win the header - Williams was meant to be marking him. The second definintely wasn't Keane's fault.

Football isn't played like that. It became Keanes problem and he didn't win the header. Take a look at the photo further down this thread it is quite clear. Now move on.

[BabylonClaret]

For our first goal, Ashley Barnes got behind Michael Keane before lashing the ball in.

For the second, Chris Wood was marked by (guess who) Michael Keane. Yes, Pickford should have done better for both goals but, Ben Mee or Tarks would not have allowed those two chances.

Hmmm - Liverpool at home. Free kick in dying seconds (just off the top of my head there). IN fact Everton's goal - poor marking all round.

[taio]

Football isn't played like that. It became Keanes problem and he didn't win the header. Take a look at the photo further down this thread it is quite clear. Now move on.

Of course football is played like that. In fact, it's the very basics - Williams failed to mark Wood properly and that was the fundamental error for the goal. That picture proves nothing. Keane can't be expected to win the header because he wasn't in the correct position to, and the reason for that is simple - Wood was Williams' man.

[Papabendi]

Incorrect.

[starting_11]

For both of our goals, MK was at fault and had a torrid day against Ash today.

I did want to see him do well when he left us but it is now clear that MK isn't the player that he was without Ben Mee.

He's not our player. So who cares?

[taio]

Incorrect.

Care to explain why? Otherwise that's just meaningless. It seems blatantly obvious to me, and I see others on this thread, that Williams was at fault.

[Stayingup]

For both of our goals, MK was at fault and had a torrid day against Ash today.

I did want to see him do well when he left us but it is now clear that MK isn't the player that he was without Ben Mee.

Williams for the second. Lost him when ran back and then forward.

Pickford v Barnes. I think I'd stay where I was if Ash was charging at me

[BleedingClaret]

As much as I loved having MK as a Claret..... I have to say his overall performance today was I think pretty poor. His distribution was really bad, and Barnes made life very difficult for him. OK he may not have been helped with his defensive partner but I think the problem was more than that.

The confident MK that graced Turf Moor didn't turn up today.
This afternoon the 2 centre backs that would have impressed the watching Southgate, were wearing Claret shirts

Tell you what Turfy if Southgate was there to watch Keane with a secondary brief to look at Mee and Tarks well we know who won that one.
Also having watched Stones, Smalling, Jones and Cahill I genuinely believe the best pairing, especially considering them playing together and in theory in a weaker team and the best individuals are Tarks and Mee

[kaptin1]

No he wasn't - it was Williams who lost Wood completely.

Williams didn’t lose Wood because he never found him in the first place...

[Wile E Coyote]

pickford is a good keeper, i dont agree he was at fault as ian wright said, he was just beaten by two unstoppable efforts from barnes and wood

[RalphCoatesComb]

pickford is a good keeper, i dont agree he was at fault as ian wright said, he was just beaten by two unstoppable efforts from barnes and wood

No keeper should be beaten at his near-post, especially one wanting to play for his Country. He was so rooted to his line for the corner for the second that Wood had the easiest of headers (Keane or no Keane).

Having said all of that, we won and I don't give a flying fox !!!

[starting_11]

pickford is a good keeper, i dont agree he was at fault as ian wright said, he was just beaten by two unstoppable efforts from barnes and wood

and 47 others this season?

He's gash.

[ClaretTony]

Williams didn’t lose Wood because he never found him in the first place...

I'd agree with that

[ClaretTony]

pickford is a good keeper, i dont agree he was at fault as ian wright said, he was just beaten by two unstoppable efforts from barnes and wood

He wasn't where he should have been for either though and that's why just about every pundit is pointing fingers at him.

[bfcjg]

Everton have turned a fantastic defender into a fire fighter trying to cope with so much mediocrity and indescion around him. Feel sorry for the lad.

[NRC]

any attachment of blame to Keane for that second goal is ludicrous. Wood was Williams' man, and we never ever near him. Keane was trying to retrieve the situation

[dsr]

Williams didn’t lose Wood because he never found him in the first place...

To be fair, Williams knew where Wood was. He pointed at him for long enough.

[dsr]

Football isn't played like that. It became Keanes problem and he didn't win the header. Take a look at the photo further down this thread it is quite clear. Now move on.

While in a sense it's true that it became Keane's problem, that doesn't mean it was Keane's fault. If Williams and Keane are told to take a man each, and Williams decides not to bother and lets Keane try and mark two men, it's not Keane's fault if he fails. You don't blame the man who failed at the impossible job, you blame the man who made his job impossible.

[Walton]

Wood's goal was 100% Williams' fault.

Struggling to believe how anyone could think otherwise

[JimmyRobbo]

Really seems to be something of a 'Marmite' thread.

Keane may be criticised for the first. The main culprit is unquestionably Pickford. I watched it on Sky and while stating it was a great ball at the time, I couldn't understand how the keeper wasn't coming into shot on the screen. Under further scrutiny, Ash ends up striking it in the 6 yard box. Definitely Pickford the main cause of the goal. I said to my mate at the time, it was a great ball from Lowton and had he been playing for Arsenal or Spurs the commentators would have been waxing lyrical about how special it was.

2nd goal: Pickford gets himself trapped at the wrong side of Wardy. Williams decides to let Wood go which gave him a run on Keano as the ball is delivered. Keane is not the man intended to mark him, nor is he expected to win the header in such a situation.

I'm not saying he was perfect. I'm not even suggesting that he didn't have the opportunity to make a play and a name for himself there.

I too, feel sorry for MK He's had a hard season. I haven't watched him closely but to play him at left of the 2 to accommodate Williams is always going to make his task even harder. On TV, you could see Pickford criticising his defence on a few occasions - because of the close-up nature of the shot I couldn't tell who was the target of his words. I hope it wasn't Keano, but it's possible.

[Papabendi]

It doesn't matter who the player technically marking Wood is at the point the ball comes across, Keane is there on the spot and loses the header miserably. In any other area of the field the judgement is the same.
Can't wait for the next time we concede in a similar fashion, wonder what the response will be.
Some fans on here with very poor knowledge of the game to be honest.

[taio]

It doesn't matter who the player technically marking Wood is at the point the ball comes across, Keane is there on the spot and loses the header miserably. In any other area of the field the judgement is the same.
Can't wait for the next time we concede in a similar fashion, wonder what the response will be.
Some fans on here with very poor knowledge of the game to be honest.

Of course it matters. Williams was pointing toward Wood and as Wood dropped off a couple of yards Williams turns to watch his movement. Keane isn't looking at him at all because Wood was Williams' responsibility. Keane was never going to be able to win the header because he wasn't in position with not being goal side, but that's understandable because he wasn't meant to be picking him up. If there is any very poor knowledge being shown here, I'm afraid to say it's you. It was also being discussed on Sky Sports this morning and they unanimously agreed Williams was the player at fault.

[Walton]

Agree with Taio

[Jeremy_Bentham]

. thinks Williams was mainly to blame but wonders what Keane was meant to be doing. He doesn’t seem to see Keane picking anyone up and if Keane was doing some sort of zonal marking, he should also be partly to blame.

[jlup1980]

I thought MK did ok overall. Williams looked absolutely horrendous from the first minute. I can't quite believe how bad he was to be honest. It was panic stations every single time he got the ball. I can't imagine it's much fun playing next to that. Unfortunately for MK his face isn't going to fit at Everton now as he's seen as part of the problem by their fans. If only they looked at his season objectively. When he's out of position it's usually because he's covering for the dross around him. He's constantly getting pulled all over the place. I feel for the lad but he'll get a chance elsewhere I'm sure.

[Im_not_Robbie_Blake]

Thought he was one of their best players, him and Walcott

Walcott???? Was he even playing?

[NottsClaret]

Keane's still got all the attributes he had, he'd no doubt look brilliant back in our system. Everton are a bit of a mess though right now. Must have been thought provoking for Southgate, Tarks was easily the best defender on show if that's what he'd come to see.

Pickford had a strange game. Some really good saves but definitely at fault for our first, and partly for the second. Have to say I was surprised how easily Barnes stayed ahead of Keane for his goal.

[ontario claret]

Wow. The stuff they get away with posting on the Everton site. I think I'll switch allegiances for that reason alone. Less censoring.

[ontario claret]

I got taken down yesterday just for suggesting that Jeff Hendrick was going to sponsor a youth side called "The Strollers".