Europa League Thread

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:50 am

This is the amusing thing when you see bigger clubs crying about the number of games they play.

It's possibly the travelling and jet lag that would cause issues though.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:54 am

We played 61 games in 2008/09. Got within minutes of a League Cup Final and got promoted at Wembley. All with a far inferior Squad and Management Team.

Cubanclaret · Post by **Cubanclaret** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:56 am

I don’t think it’s the extra games necesssarily but the travelling and frequency of Thursday /Sunday games.
It’s a routine that our players and staff will never have been used to, and bigger resourced clubs than ours have struggled pretty badly with it in the past.
Sitting still on planes and travelling excessive distances in coaches isn’t great downtime for elite athletes - we’ll pick up niggles and have to rotate the squad a bit.
There’s a difference between a midweek match at a Milton Keynes and one in Zaragoza.
Still, if anyone can handle it, you’d back Sean and his team to plan things to the letter. I think we can do well if indeed we make it past the first play-off (assuming we finish 7th and Southampton don’t win the cup).

android · Post by **android** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:15 am

Complicated innit. But if Steve's source is correct it seems to mean that we cannot possibly benefit from Arsenal winning the Europa but it would cost us if we managed to finish above them in 6th.

If we finish 6th without Arsenal winning the Europa we would go straight to the group stages (FA Cup winners spot) with Arsenal taking the League Cup winners spot in 7th. But if Arsenal win the Europa there would be 5 teams in the Champions League and our 6th place would be left with the League Cup winners spot putting us in the 2nd qualifying round.

If we finish 6th and Arsenal win the Europa and Southampton the FA cup then we would not be in Europe at all despite finishing 6th.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:16 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:Bizarre that dsr keeps talking about an obscure youth tournament.

Sorry, I assumed that most people recognised that by Europa Cup I was actually talking about the UEFA Europa League. I never thought it particularly relevant to call a Cup, a League.

i apologise to beehole and anyone else who didn't understand.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:16 am

Sidney1st wrote:This is the amusing thing when you see bigger clubs crying about the number of games they play.

It's possibly the travelling and jet lag that would cause issues though.

Even then jet lag would only come into play rarely, you don't get jet lag flying to Italy or Germany etc. Funnily enough there was a commentator on the local radio at weekend saying that Rovers were under par in their game at Bristol 'probably because of the long trip to Gillingham in midweek'. What utter nonsense, it's 4 hours or so on a luxury coach or half an hour on a plane.

Travel fatigue????? These over paid under performing players will say anything to excuse a bad game.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:17 am

android wrote:Complicated innit. But if Steve's source is correct it seems to mean that we cannot possibly benefit from Arsenal winning the Europa but it would cost us if we managed to finish above them in 6th.

If we finish 6th without Arsenal winning the Europa we would go straight to the group stages (FA Cup winners spot) with Arsenal taking the League Cup winners spot in 7th. But if Arsenal win the Europa there would be 5 teams in the Champions League and our 6th place would be left with the League Cup winners spot putting us in the 2nd qualifying round.

If we finish 6th and Arsenal win the Europa and Southampton the FA cup then we would not be in Europe at all despite finishing 6th.

The best two English qualifiers for the Europa competition are exempt to the group stage. If there are only two qualifiers because Arsenal win it this year, then both those two are exempt to the group stage.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:19 am

houseboy wrote:Even then jet lag would only come into play rarely, you don't get jet lag flying to Italy or Germany etc. Funnily enough there was a commentator on the local radio at weekend saying that Rovers were under par in their game at Bristol 'probably because of the long trip to Gillingham in midweek'. What utter nonsense, it's 4 hours or so on a luxury coach or half an hour on a plane.

Travel fatigue????? These over paid under performing players will say anything to excuse a bad game.

I suppose it depends on the plane you use.

Wasn't it Lampard who bizarrely got injured due to a cramped seating position whilst away with England?

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:22 am

Sidney1st wrote:I suppose it depends on the plane you use.

Wasn't it Lampard who bizarrely got injured due to a cramped seating position whilst away with England?

I personally think Lampard was injured for every game he played for England. Great for Chelsea but could never could understand why he played so often for England. I struggle to remember one good game he had for us.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:35 am

Sidney1st wrote:It's possibly the travelling and jet lag that would cause issues though.

The travelling will have to be managed properly but you don't get jet lag going to Europe.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:37 am

You’d think it would be easier for teams in the Europa rather than the CL.

Always Thurs/Sunday games in the Europa. You get get into a rhythm and a routine for European week.

Whereas the CL is Tues/Sat/Sun, Wed/Sat/Sun.

Id say it hugely down to clubs not bothered about it. When its a League Cup game if you're not bothered then its just 1 game. Europa its 6 group games in which clubs aren't bothered about so they're in that mental state for a longer period. Which then effects league form.

Champions League they all want to progress and its actually helps league form. I know the CL clubs have bigger squads etc. But spurs don’t usually make that many changes.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:37 am

dsr wrote:The best two English qualifiers for the Europa competition are exempt to the group stage. If there are only two qualifiers because Arsenal win it this year, then both those two are exempt to the group stage.

Why did Everton have to play in the qualifying rounds last year?

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:42 am

Tall Paul wrote:Why did Everton have to play in the qualifying rounds last year?

Because dsr's wrong

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:03 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Why did Everton have to play in the qualifying rounds last year?

Presumably because the 2017-18 rules are not the same as the 2018-19 rules.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:04 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Because dsr's wrong

If you have nothing to say, then say it.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:16 pm

houseboy wrote:I personally think Lampard was injured for every game he played for England. Great for Chelsea but could never could understand why he played so often for England. I struggle to remember one good game he had for us.

England managers stupidly thought a Gerrard/Lampard combo would be a better choice in the middle than Scholes and someone else.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:23 pm

Difference is we are not in the championship. Premier League games are simply more demanding

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:34 pm

Sidney1st wrote:England managers stupidly thought a Gerrard/Lampard combo would be a better choice in the middle than Scholes and someone else.

I tend to think that Lampard wasn't actually that good a player. I think he was made to look good at Chelsea because of the players around him, when taken out of that environment he was half the player. I'm sure loads of Chelsea fans might disagree but can anyone, just out of interest, give an example of a good game by him for England.

I'm more than happy to be proved wrong.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:35 pm

The travelling and lack of training will have a major impact.

But bring it on.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:38 pm

Rowls wrote:The travelling will have to be managed properly but you don't get jet lag going to Europe.

You bloody do. I could go forward one minute and it throws everything off. Even Europe or the clocks going forward.

Don't mind going back though, I can handle that no problem

NellyDBFC · Post by **NellyDBFC** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:45 pm

Here is a list of possible 2nd round qualification opponents for Burnley if they were to enter the competition at the 2nd round stage, based upon this season's European qualifiers.

Everton only received an allocation of 500 tickets for their 1st leg away qualifier.

Some of the places on the list barely have electricity, and stadiums that hold 1500 max capacity.

How would the club allocate just a few hundred tickets ?

: Screenshot_20180416-122051.png (262.02 KiB) Viewed 3477 times

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:49 pm

We will miss our usual EFL Cup exit with the bye until the 3rd round, I just hope we don't try to make up for it with a July exit to some even smaller minnow than Accy in a town I've never heard of within a country I have come close to never hearing of.

I jest, but people like Tarky (hopefully for him) and JBG will be missing due to the World Cup so we are bound to be disjointed. Luckily (in hindsight) most of our players play for countries who just missed out, or, like Defour, are likely to be returning from injury.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:50 pm

dsr wrote:Presumably because the 2017-18 rules are not the same as the 2018-19 rules.

Do you have a link?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:59 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Do you have a link?

Not to last year's rules, no. But goody's link (post 29) and crosspool's link (post 41) between them make it clear that this year English clubs will enter the competition at the 2nd Qualifying round or at the Group stage. Everton last year entered at the third qualifying rounds, which means the rules have changed.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:59 pm

In response to the op - The concern would be that other than the big 6 the rest of the PL only play 38 games. That is where the risk comes and it is one that hs set back clubs with much bigger resourses than us. I am happy to get a token game or 4 in the EL, but going a long way would be a massive risk imo.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:02 pm

I think the problem can be more the amount of travel time the EL entails. Last week Arsenal were in Moscow; that's a substantial flight back, across time zones - they probably didn't get back to the UK until around midday on Friday and they played Sunday lunchtime. Even the longest away trip within English football is less invasive than that.

The games themselves aren't an issue for me. But either way, we've got to embrace it. Opportunities like this don't come round too often.

android · Post by **android** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:05 pm

Hope you are right dsr and thinking about it, it seems likely you are. It all comes down to how 3 scheduled Europa places become 2 (if Arsenal qualify for the Champions League) and which Europa place is presumably then re-distributed to another country.

What you are saying seems the most logical. Apparently unlike this season, 2 English teams are now meant to go straight into the group stages in 2018/19 and the third team goes into the 2nd qualifying round. It would make sense that if 3 becomes 2 it is the qualifying round spot that is re-allocated to another country rather than some other country being parachuted into an automatic group stage entry.

Supporting Arsenal to win the Europa is still complicated though isn't it? We benefit if they win it and Southampton don't win the cup as any top 7 place would put us straight into the group stages (rather than a qualifying stage for 7th if Arsenal are in the Europa as well). But if Southampton win the cup then Arsenal winning the Europa would deny us a Europa place at all as only 5th place would qualify. Although this would only matter in the unlikely event that we finish above Arsenal in 6th. Is that right???

The only thing that seems clear is that we don't want Southampton to win the cup!

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:06 pm

dsr wrote:Not to last year's rules, no. But goody's link (post 29) and crosspool's link (post 41) between them make it clear that this year English clubs will enter the competition at the 2nd Qualifying round or at the Group stage. Everton last year entered at the third qualifying rounds, which means the rules have changed.

I know the rules have changed, but it doesn't necessarily follow that we automatically get two qualifiers to the group stages and this isn't clear from the two links you mention.

The only change that I can see is that our League Cup winner's place enters at the second qualifying round instead of the third.

From last year's PL Wiki

b ^ Manchester United qualified for the Champions League group stage by winning the 2016–17 UEFA Europa League. Based on their league position (6th), they would have received the spot above to enter the Europa League group stage. This spot was vacated without replacement as per UEFA regulations.

There's nothing to say that those UEFA regulations have changed.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:17 pm

Fulham did oreyt a few years back and survived comfortably in the Prem, And none of West Brom Stoke or Southampton qualified to play in Europe this season but they've all been utter shite. If we keep our manager and recruitment policy we will be absolutely fine.

I tend to find "we looked leggy and tired" when translated from football speak generally means we were ******* crap today. Arsenal didn't lose yesterday because they were in Moscow on Thursday they lost because they don't know how to defend as a team.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:20 pm

android wrote:Hope you are right dsr and thinking about it, it seems likely you are. It all comes down to how 3 scheduled Europa places become 2 (if Arsenal qualify for the Champions League) and which Europa place is presumably then re-distributed to another country.

What you are saying seems the most logical. Apparently unlike this season, 2 English teams are now meant to go straight into the group stages in 2018/19 and the third team goes into the 2nd qualifying round. It would make sense that if 3 becomes 2 it is the qualifying round spot that is re-allocated to another country rather than some other country being parachuted into an automatic group stage entry.

Supporting Arsenal to win the Europa is still complicated though isn't it? We benefit if they win it and Southampton don't win the cup as any top 7 place would put us straight into the group stages (rather than a qualifying stage for 7th if Arsenal are in the Europa as well). But if Southampton win the cup then Arsenal winning the Europa would deny us a Europa place at all as only 5th place would qualify. Although this would only matter in the unlikely event that we finish above Arsenal in 6th. Is that right???

The only thing that seems clear is that we don't want Southampton to win the cup!

Two teams were meant to go straight to the group stages this season as well.

https://www.premierleague.com/european- ... -explained" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also hope dsr is right, but I'm not sure he is.

dibraidio · Post by **dibraidio** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:22 pm

We have Chelsea, Stoke and Brighton to play before we go to Arsenal on May 6th.
They have West Ham at home and Man Utd away in that time.
We have a realistic possibility of overtaking Arsenal before that game.

If Southampton beat Chelsea, and Arsenal lose to Athletico then that match takes on a huge significance for Arsenal as they could fail to qualify for Europe entirely.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:48 pm

Tall Paul wrote:I know the rules have changed, but it doesn't necessarily follow that we automatically get two qualifiers to the group stages and this isn't clear from the two links you mention.

The only change that I can see is that our League Cup winner's place enters at the second qualifying round instead of the third.

From last year's PL Wiki

There's nothing to say that those UEFA regulations have changed.

Now my head really is spinning. I think now that you're right - Man United's second-qualifying Europa spot just disappeared and Arsenal and Everton took the first and third spots. Everton didn't get bumped up. So that means that we need to finish 6th (above Arsenal) and if Southampton don't win the FA Cup, then we would qualify for the 2nd Europa spot and Arsenal's third qualifying spot would be lost, and as I understand that would mean we would be in the group stage. I think.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:47 pm

dsr wrote:Now my head really is spinning. I think now that you're right - Man United's second-qualifying Europa spot just disappeared and Arsenal and Everton took the first and third spots. Everton didn't get bumped up. So that means that we need to finish 6th (above Arsenal) and if Southampton don't win the FA Cup, then we would qualify for the 2nd Europa spot and Arsenal's third qualifying spot would be lost, and as I understand that would mean we would be in the group stage. I think.

That's how I understood it, but I was hoping you'd seen something that meant we could get straight into the group stages even by finishing seventh.

It's quite confusing.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:57 pm

It is as much about mental fatigue and game preparation as anything - travelling seriously messes up your ability to rest and refresh (I have done a lot of that for work it is the worst part of the job). The level of concentration to play at these high levels is immense and our game plan is so dependent on not making mistakes and being fully focused. Not being mentally refreshed and prepared is a huge factor for the Thursday/Sunday clubs.

Also factor in that a lot of these clubs are not in major cities, so hotels and airports are often of very different standards and or further away from the grounds.

It would do us no harm to bring in specialists to help players with these issues and explains why so many big clubs are incorporating sleeping facilities at their training grounds for their players

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:01 pm

The big difference is that whereas some play keep ball and conserve energy, we are a team who exhausts themselves, every match

May our recovery periods be long enough.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:01 pm

SGr wrote:Difference is we are not in the championship. Premier League games are simply more demanding

Exactly.

KeighleyClaret · Post by **KeighleyClaret** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:37 pm

Its very confusing especially as the UEFA rules state that the league position goes up. Also the Cup winners position takes priority over the league and the league cup position.

So that means that one of 2 things can happen if Chelsea and Arsenal win their competitions:
1) Chelsea get the top place, and the 7th placed team gets the 5th placed spot, league cup place is lost.
2) Chelsea get the top place, and the 7th place team gets the league cup spot, and second league place for 5th is lost.

I cannot see any logic within the rules for option 2 but this s UEFA we are dealing with. So it's either straight to the Group stage by finishing 7th, or into 2nd Qualifier depending on whether the league place for 5th moves up or gets lost.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:41 pm

May I offer a suggestion that we all wait until we see if we qualify and then to the end of the season for clarity.

KeighleyClaret · Post by **KeighleyClaret** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:55 pm

This might help!!
A Europa League place is vacated when a team qualifies for both the Champions League and the Europa League, or qualifies for the Europa League by more than one method. When a place is vacated, it is redistributed within the national association by the following rules:

'When the domestic cup winners (considered as the "highest-placed" qualifier within the national association with the latest starting round) also qualify for the Champions League, their Europa League place is vacated. As a result, the highest-placed team in the league which have not yet qualified for European competitions qualify for the Europa League, with the Europa League qualifiers which finish above them in the league moved up one "place"'.

This would apply this year if one of the top 4 wins the cup. The Europa league place then passes to 5th which moves into the FA Cup slot. As we have 2 other slots the team in 6th qualifies in the 5th placed slot and the team in 7th in the 6th placed slot unless the league cup is won by a team finishing lower, which it wasn't. Hence that means we would get the third slot and go into the qualifying rounds.

'When the domestic cup winners also qualify for the Europa League through league position, their place through the league position is vacated. As a result, the highest-placed team in the league which have not yet qualified for European competitions qualify for the Europa League, with the Europa League qualifiers which finish above them in the league moved up one "place" if possible'.

So if Chelsea win the cup the 5th place is occupied by the team finishing 6th and the team in 7th qualifies - it seems that the 6th and placed 7th placed teams move up to 5th and 6th. This is the confusing bit.

'For associations where a Europa League place is reserved for either the League Cup or end-of-season European competition play-offs winners, they always qualify for the Europa League as the "lowest-placed" qualifier. If the League Cup winners have already qualified for European competitions through other methods, this reserved Europa League place is taken by the highest-placed team in the league which have not yet qualified for European competitions'.

So as the League Cup winner is the league winner the slot is vacated and given to the highest placed non-qualifier. However we may have already qualified by virtue of Chelsea and Arsenal winning their cups so its not clear if we get the highest League place slot or the League Cup slot.

The rules however do not specifically say what happens when a club wins the EL and gets into the CL, other than that the place is vacated. However they do state that the League Cup place is the lowest of the 3 places so presumably this is the one that is lost? The 2 remaining are therefore FA Cup and highest League places and are therefore through to qualifiers.

No Ney Never · Post by **No Ney Never** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:31 pm

We're only a few additions to our current squad short of fielding two decent teams for next season. Perhaps we may see more of the squad playing as the starting 11 is shifted about a little.

Prem
Heaton or Pope
Lowton, Tarkowski, Mee, Ward
Lennon, Cork, Defour, Brady
?
Wood

Europe
Heaton or Pope
Bardsley, Long, ?, Taylor
JBG, Westwood, Hendrick, Arfield or ?
Barnes, Vokes

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:35 pm

An interesting point NNN I hadn’t considered that.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:41 pm

Be up a tree or get a job as a steward if needed.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:42 pm

SGr wrote:Difference is we are not in the championship. Premier League games are simply more demanding

Why are they more demanding?

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:46 pm

Spijed wrote:Why are they more demanding?

As I’m online and sg isn’t, because it’s a far more intense league and more at stake especially for BFC sg may offer some more good reasons later.

Down_Rover · Post by **Down_Rover** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:06 pm

WE wont be in second qualifying round. Changed this year, we will be in either 3rd Qualifier or group stage depending on how good we are at stone paper scissors

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:08 pm

Oh no not another Euro thread

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:09 pm

Down_Rover wrote:WE wont be in second qualifying round. Changed this year, we will be in either 3rd Qualifier or group stage depending on how good we are at stone paper scissors

Does that mean we wont be in the games on 23rd and 30th august regardless?

Milltown1882 · Post by **Milltown1882** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:19 pm

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 14896.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:27 pm

Milltown1882 wrote:https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 14896.html

Doesnt explain our likely dates though

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:29 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Oh no not another Euro thread

I said