Local Elections on Thursday

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Thu May 03, 2018 11:10 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Or fight a campaign attacking the opponents ethnicity?

They all have flaws and faults, only an idiot thinks otherwise. Its finding the policies that you agree with the most and voting for them.

Then watch the people you voted for enter a coalition and drop the policy straight away for a ministerial post.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu May 03, 2018 11:12 am

I'm not daft enough to think it was that simple, and I know you aren't either, so why go down that road?

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Thu May 03, 2018 11:46 am

Will be an interesting one to watch I think.

I have voted Lib Dem because they are the best of the local bunch, the incumbent Labour council focuses all it’s attention on the less salubrious areas of the city and are busy in partnership with Amey pulling out 10,000+ trees which there is a lot of upset about in the leafy suburbs because there is a feeling it is all done to make money for the highways contractor.

Nationally, I expect to see a noticeable counter intuitive shift with the Tories getting more of the working class vote outside London, and Labour getting more of the graduate vote, especially in the cities. If the Tories could get their act together regarding caring for working class people instead of people not liking them but deciding they are best for them economically and culturally (inviting them for breast screening would have been a start) they they could have a huge swing in their favour. As it stands I expect overall to see the status quo maintained, and the populist surge will be deferred for another day.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Thu May 03, 2018 11:48 am

I've just voted for the Laboural Democonservatives

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu May 03, 2018 11:53 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote: the incumbent Labour council focuses all it’s attention on the less salubrious areas of the city and are busy in partnership with Amey pulling out 10,000+ trees which there is a lot of upset about in the leafy suburbs because there is a feeling it is all done to make money for the highways contractor.

You can thank Jeremy Corbyn for that project being halted.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu May 03, 2018 11:56 am

You can also thank him for Labour still being behind the Conservatives in the polls as well.

May and Corbyn must ring each other up each morning and thank each other for their continued existence as leaders (leaders! ffs!) of the two main political parties in the UK.

Sausage · Post by **Sausage** » Thu May 03, 2018 1:15 pm

I've voted for the three candidates who share the same postcode as me, the logic being that they're more likely to care what happens in my ward if they actually live in my ward.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu May 03, 2018 1:22 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:I have a lot of time for Alan in the sense that he is constantly working at his role, but what has he actually "done" that wouldn't have been done anyway?

You would have to ask him that question.

I just see on a daily basis, people asking for Alan's help and him getting it done very quickly.

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Thu May 03, 2018 2:26 pm

I just voted 20 mins ago. I dont vote for a party in local elections, never have done. What I look for is: somebody who actually lives in the area; somebody who I've seen about doing things for local residents (rather than spouting party slogans), somebody who looks to have had some "ordinary" experience in life rather than being a career politico.
In this instance his party was Labour whereas I would not vote Labour in a GE currently (despite having done so on nearly every occasion since 1970).

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Thu May 03, 2018 6:11 pm

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Thu May 03, 2018 8:06 pm

Clem Attlee ?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu May 03, 2018 10:42 pm

I don't have to commit on anyone ITBYW.

The current lot in charge couldn't run a bath. And they are ahead in the polls.

You don't think its Corbyn, I think he's a massive factor. You are forcing people to choose either very right or very left. That is millions of disenchanfransied voters right there.

Last election is was blatantly obvious why labour did better than expected, but have they recognised that? have they chuff. And they continue to ignore it for reasons I don't get because they gain more by recognising that than they would lose.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu May 03, 2018 11:37 pm

Give you a clue how it is going

In Sunderland, in three seats declared, the Conservatives have won one, the Lib Dems have won one and Lab have won one.

Sunderland. Just let that sink in if you think Mr Beardy is going to win an election anytime soon.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu May 03, 2018 11:41 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Give you a clue how it is going

In Sunderland, in three seats declared, the Conservatives have won one, the Lib Dems have won one and Lab have won one.

Sunderland. Just let that sink in if you think Mr Beardy is going to win an election anytime soon.

Depends on the swing. These will probably be retained seats. The question will be where the movement takes the marginals.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Thu May 03, 2018 11:48 pm

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu May 03, 2018 11:56 pm

It doesn't matter does it?

People who believe in Corbyn don't listen to anything or anybody that doesn't listen to Corbyn.

I'm going to be reading twitter tomorrow with my head in my hands as labour blame

- other Labour members
- media bias
- the Jewish lobby (ok, maybe not that one)
- no one really cares about council elections
- Lib Dems
- Greens
- Plaid Cymru
- SNP

No bloody wonder the Conservatives can get away with being so utterly hopeless.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu May 03, 2018 11:58 pm

This - can someone please explain how we get this

Pallion (Sunderland) result:

LDem: 60.1% (+57.0)
Lab: 29.4% (-18.4)
Con: 7.3% (-7.0)
Grn: 3.1% (-1.7)

LDem GAIN.

No UKIP (-30.1) as prev.

it makes no sense, it looks like the UKIP vote has gone to the Lib Dems? How does that work?

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri May 04, 2018 12:07 am

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri May 04, 2018 12:12 am

Seriously though, if you don't win a utter shed load of seats tonight, what is the plan?

Taking away the good policies that Lab have for a sec, something is stopping them from doing well.

I think you are too obsessed with 52% of the electorate, and of that %, 75% of them will never vote for a lab govt.

You'd clean up 48% of the country in a heartbeat. if you wanted to.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri May 04, 2018 12:36 am

Early days but the pattern is Conservatives making modest gains in leave voting areas,Labour not making the progress they would like,LibDems again some joy for them,Independents scoring,and UKIP and the Greens being squeezed.Pretty similar to the General Election but as the main opposition party Labour should be polling better given they are defending roughly half the seats available tonight.

Rumours on the Beeb that Barnet may have slipped from their grasp due to the antisemitism scandal,surely food for thought at Labour HQ'S over the weekend,and they have lost Nuneaton also.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Fri May 04, 2018 12:47 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:This - can someone please explain how we get this

Pallion (Sunderland) result:

LDem: 60.1% (+57.0)
Lab: 29.4% (-18.4)
Con: 7.3% (-7.0)
Grn: 3.1% (-1.7)

LDem GAIN.

No UKIP (-30.1) as prev.

it makes no sense, it looks like the UKIP vote has gone to the Lib Dems? How does that work?

All the racists have been educated in a melodramatic 2018 period drama named geordie shore

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri May 04, 2018 1:01 am

I don't think the Mackems consider themshelves as Geordies.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri May 04, 2018 1:04 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:This - can someone please explain how we get this

Pallion (Sunderland) result:

LDem: 60.1% (+57.0)
Lab: 29.4% (-18.4)
Con: 7.3% (-7.0)
Grn: 3.1% (-1.7)

LDem GAIN.

No UKIP (-30.1) as prev.

it makes no sense, it looks like the UKIP vote has gone to the Lib Dems? How does that work?

Protest vote. Same as what happened with the BNP in Burnley. You get a traditionally solid Labour area with a wildly unpopular (for whatever reason) Labour candidate, and the Labour supporters would rather pickle their eyes in brine than vote Tory, the Liberal is scarcely there at all, and the "other party" collects the protest votes. Last time in Pallion it must have been UKIP; this time Liberal. That's my guess, anyway.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Fri May 04, 2018 1:08 am

Sausage wrote:I've voted for the three candidates who share the same postcode as me, the logic being that they're more likely to care what happens in my ward if they actually live in my ward.

Funny that. My local Councillor was only interested in putting up the parish council tax by hundreds of percent so he could hire his family member to be the "administrator" of the charity community hub he was the trustee of...

Sure he had the public in mind when he did that!

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Fri May 04, 2018 1:16 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:This - can someone please explain how we get this

Pallion (Sunderland) result:

LDem: 60.1% (+57.0)
Lab: 29.4% (-18.4)
Con: 7.3% (-7.0)
Grn: 3.1% (-1.7)

LDem GAIN.

No UKIP (-30.1) as prev.

it makes no sense, it looks like the UKIP vote has gone to the Lib Dems? How does that work?

My theory, for what it's worth, is that in large parts of the post-Industrial North of England, including Burnley, there are large swathes of the traditionally Labour voting population who would never consider voting Conservative as long as they had a hole in their proverbial... This is for historical/family/cultural reasons, "My Grandad would spin in his grave if I ever voted Tory " etc..

When they get to a point that they cannot bring themselves to vote Labour, the Lib-Dems is the obvious protest vote, hence Gordon Birtwistle's win in 2010 ! This was before UKIP had their upsurge, and once they became an option, they attracted votes and the Lib/Dem vote declined. Now UKIP's fortunes nationally have declined, the Lib/Dem's vote is rising again in these areas. Without being judgemental, I suspect a good proportion of these electors are not " day to day " followers of matters political, and the Lib/Dems provide a natural home for their ballot..

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Fri May 04, 2018 1:27 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:This - can someone please explain how we get this

Pallion (Sunderland) result:

LDem: 60.1% (+57.0)
Lab: 29.4% (-18.4)
Con: 7.3% (-7.0)
Grn: 3.1% (-1.7)

LDem GAIN.

No UKIP (-30.1) as prev.

it makes no sense, it looks like the UKIP vote has gone to the Lib Dems? How does that work?

Lets get this right, your wetting yourself cos of one result in one ward? maybe just maybe the lib dem person was actually popular with the local community, i.e a vote for the person not the party. Does that make sense?

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Fri May 04, 2018 1:29 am

tiger76 wrote:I don't think the Mackems consider themshelves as Geordies.

Just about sums it all up. Voting results have been very random since the rise of social media. It now throws out stranger results than ever by local trends. I truly believe it is the downfall of civilisation.

And as much as I hate to admit it by supporting my local political opponents the whole Trump saga has made existence a jolly joke indeed.

We were better off 50 years ago without the neck strain and the hand computers as I type into one.

Damn it.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Fri May 04, 2018 1:30 am

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:Lets get this right, your wetting yourself cos of one result in one ward? maybe just maybe the lib dem person was actually popular with the local community, i.e a vote for the person not the party. Does that make sense?

He had featured on JOWIE

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri May 04, 2018 1:34 am

A by-election in Pallion was won by the Liberals on a similar swing in February. On that occasion the website "Labour List" blames the fact that the Liberal had printed his election leaflets on red and white paper instead of orange.

Maybe the same happened this time? Is this a new factor in politics?

https://labourlist.org/2018/02/council- ... om-labour/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Fri May 04, 2018 1:38 am

dsr wrote:A by-election in Pallion was won by the Liberals on a similar swing in February. On that occasion the website "Labour List" blames the fact that the Liberal had printed his election leaflets on red and white paper instead of orange. Maybe the same happened this time? Is this a new factor in politics?

https://labourlist.org/2018/02/council- ... om-labour/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I doubt the bins and pit bull type dogs with postal eating tendencies had any say in this vote.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri May 04, 2018 1:47 am

https://twitter.com/BBCPeterH/status/992193805972537344

Won't be the first councillor to defect i'm sure.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Fri May 04, 2018 1:52 am

Does she keep the seat or is it passed to the next highest vote. Did she quit before or after results? How does it work?

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Fri May 04, 2018 7:57 am

Was in a bit of a pickle whether to leave the car at either Barnet or Stanmore on Sunday for the match, but since someone has pointed out that Barnet is now blue my mind as been made

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri May 04, 2018 8:10 am

Lets get this right, your wetting yourself cos of one result in one ward? maybe just maybe the lib dem person was actually popular with the local community, i.e a vote for the person not the party. Does that make sense?

Not wetting myself strange person, just wondering why a place like Sunderland which is a massive leave voting area voted for the only party that wants to remain in the EU.

Its more than a protest vote that, though I'm inclined to go with DSR in that the Lib Dems must have a good local team up there.

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Fri May 04, 2018 8:27 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:This - can someone please explain how we get this

Pallion (Sunderland) result:

LDem: 60.1% (+57.0)
Lab: 29.4% (-18.4)
Con: 7.3% (-7.0)
Grn: 3.1% (-1.7)

LDem GAIN.

No UKIP (-30.1) as prev.

it makes no sense, it looks like the UKIP vote has gone to the Lib Dems? How does that work?

Could it be possible the UKIP voters just didn't vote at all? The Stats are a swing in % of turnout

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri May 04, 2018 9:08 am

Bfcboyo wrote:Does she keep the seat or is it passed to the next highest vote. Did she quit before or after results? How does it work?

She keeps the seat because in the UK, it's the person who is elected, not the party. There are serious ethical issues in whether it's justified to allow people to think you are official Labour when yo're not; morally, she ought to resign and stand for re-election as an independent. But I bet she won't.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Fri May 04, 2018 9:11 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Will be an interesting one to watch I think.

Nationally, I expect to see a noticeable counter intuitive shift with the Tories getting more of the working class vote outside London, and Labour getting more of the graduate vote, especially in the cities.... ....As it stands I expect overall to see the status quo maintained, and the populist surge will be deferred for another day.

My prediction from yesterday seems largely to have come true. The polls were wrong again about Labour gains.

As Paul Embery explained on Unherd yesterday, in a piece nabbed by The Sun today, the Tories are benefitting from an unlikely coalition of working class and middle class voters, those whose values could be encapsulated by “faith, family and flag” - three things that the liberal elite completely disparage. Many experts suggest this group is over 50% of the population.

Brexit is a symptom of the latter of the three, but at some point politicians need to address all three, particularly family, where mothers are forced to work due to not being able to pass on their personal allowance to a husband (uniquely, among major countries, which costs a family £2,000 a year), and old people are left to die alone because their children have been incentivised to move away and work in and around major cities.

With council austerity, in-fighting, a weak non charismatic leader and recent home office and NHS scandals the Tories should have been hammered. But people vote far more on their core beliefs than they do on “visible” issues.

This is as good as it gets for Corbyn’s Labour due to the above. There simply aren’t enough people who believe in what they do.

https://unherd.com/2018/05/truth-liberal-london/

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri May 04, 2018 10:01 am

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri May 04, 2018 10:06 am

The last 2 years have still been great to watch, though.

That is definitely a matter of opinion! Christ, its been torture the last two years and its got a fair way to go yet!

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Fri May 04, 2018 10:24 am

Labour should streets ahead and are not. That's the shame. The UK is not up for a French Revolution. Beyond the hard-core, there is not much traction, only undermining.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Fri May 04, 2018 10:26 am

If it be your will wrote:Sadly I do believe you might just be right, here. Corbyn's Labour have substantial, passionate and committed support. This support extends way, way beyond 'sandal-wearing six-formers', 'commies', and 'quinoa-eating Islington Trots' or any other labelled group. Even 5 years ago it seemed politically unthinkable there was this level of latent support for a program like the current Labour one. It's been an encouraging revelation - I wasn't alone after all.

But there are signs they are reaching the limit. Simply put, there are too many voters want things to pretty much continue the way they are. I still have hope for the next general election (more, indeed than I had for the last one!), but right now it doesn't look particularly likely we'll ever see a Corbyn PM.

The last 2 years have still been great to watch, though.

Very well put.

If I were to be truthful, many of the things Corbyn says I would support. The problem is the many things I wouldn’t support, encapsulated in my earlier post that you responded to. Of the former, scrapping tuition fees I agree with, reversing (some) austerity I agree with.

Maybe the leader is not Corbyn, but a future Labour leader would win a landslide if they were to fully leave the EU but with a free trade deal, focus on family as well as equality (i.e. maintaining a woman’s right to work in an equal relationship but equally respecting their right to bring up a family and work part time or not at all), respect people’s desire to keep much of their hard earned money, pursue a highly controlled but respectful immigration policy, and celebrate the nation and the great qualities that British people bring to the world.

That kind of approach would win over 55%-60% of the public, then current Labour ambitions could be overlaid alongside them, like the tuition fees one, making housing affordable etc. If I wanted to be a “progressive” PM (whatever that means) that’s what I would do.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri May 04, 2018 11:32 am

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri May 04, 2018 12:02 pm

Owen Jones is having a melt down on twitter

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri May 04, 2018 12:07 pm

He's full on this morning.

Its like the pre-election hysteria he was doing about how well Corbyn was going to do and then he suddenly had a 24 hours right before it when he questioned his ability, before going all in again after it.

I admire his passion and like his articles but **** me, he's annoying at times

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Fri May 04, 2018 12:09 pm

A mate of mine was successful last night, he became a councillor - he is a regular contributor to this forum, but I won't name him..

He'd never get my vote though..

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Fri May 04, 2018 12:14 pm

A mate of mine was successful last night, he became a councillor - he is a regular contributor to this forum, but I won't name him..

He'd never get my vote though..

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Fri May 04, 2018 12:21 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:....but **** me, he's annoying all the time.

Fixed that.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri May 04, 2018 12:52 pm

Damo wrote:Owen Jones is having a melt down on twitter

The absolute definition of a soy boy.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri May 04, 2018 12:55 pm

From what's been said by the political commentators so far is that neither of the two main parties aren't in good shape to win an overall majority at the next election based on current results.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Fri May 04, 2018 1:06 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:He's full on this morning.

Its like the pre-election hysteria he was doing about how well Corbyn was going to do and then he suddenly had a 24 hours right before it when he questioned his ability, before going all in again after it.

I admire his passion and like his articles but **** me, he's annoying at times

I've started to seriously doubt whether Owen Jones believes what he writes, before the referendum I saw a number of articles in which he was a big proponent of leaving the EU, then ever since he's been a staunch remainer. There's probably an element of just pandering to whatever he feels his readership want to hear at the time.