What's the point of VAR?

[Spijed]

As I said - no logical explanation for missing some decisions but VAR is in its infancy and the element of subjectiveness will still mean mistakes.
But I think it’s a bit too early to be calling conspiracy theory against the smaller teams - how would you explain them overturning the penalty the referee awarded for Neymar / Brazil ?
But to go back to my original question would you rather have 15 mistakes / wrong decisions or just 2 or 3 ?

I'm happy to keep football the way it is. I'd rather get away with some decisions and lose out in others. The big worry is when we celebrate a goal and then find out it's later ruled out, especially if the ref needs to have a good look at decision. It'll then get to the point where a celebration ends up like a goal kick in Rugby union - generous applause and then back to the half way line. Do we want that in football - or a try or no try scenario like in Rugby league?

Those sports have poor celebrations in comparison.

[TVC15]

So you are not happy at all about some of the VAR decisions at the World Cup but you would be happy if there were more of these types of mistakes / decisions ?

I’m a bit confused !

[duncandisorderly]

It'd be nice to know why thing are or aren't reviewed.
The danish handball I understand why it was looked at, as it was handball in the area, but it should never have been given.

So why was that looked at at all and not the two England ones, Serbia or Sweden last night? Unless there is more than one offence occurring at the same time, as is possibly the case with the England ones, then all should have been referred.

[Spijed]

So you are not happy at all about some of the VAR decisions at the World Cup but you would be happy if there were more of these types of mistakes / decisions ?

I’m a bit confused !

We've managed for well over 100 years and it'll lead to less enjoyment in future.

[TVC15]

We've managed for well over 100 years and it'll lead to less enjoyment in future.

I love that argument !
Bring back slavery eh

[Top Claret]

As I said - no logical explanation for missing some decisions but VAR is in its infancy and the element of subjectiveness will still mean mistakes.
But I think it’s a bit too early to be calling conspiracy theory against the smaller teams - how would you explain them overturning the penalty the referee awarded for Neymar / Brazil ?
But to go back to my original question would you rather have 15 mistakes / wrong decisions or just 2 or 3 ?

You certainly are becoming the ultimate village idiot

Now lie down owd hen, take a deep breath and just think about the crap you spout

You must be the most opiniated buffon on this site

[duncandisorderly]

[TVC15]

You certainly are becoming the ultimate village idiot

Now lie down owd hen, take a deep breath and just think about the crap you spout

You must be the most opiniated buffon on this site

Haha - you are hilarious

Is a “Buffon” the same as a buffoon ?....or is that just your hatred of Italian goalkeepers as well as black central defenders ?

You really are the gift that just keeps on giving

Now why don’t you just f-uck off back in your racist box little man.

[South West Claret.]

What’s the point of VAR? that is a very good question in specific relation to this WC.

[Spijed]

It was meant to help the ref clear up anything he missed!

Columbia
Colombia

Should be down to ten men!

[Bordeauxclaret]

Doesn’t help when the people in the VAR studio are as useless as those with the whistle.

[boatshed bill]

If you really want to get deep about it,
what's the point of anything?

[bfcjg]

The panel for the Colombia head butt incident.

[FactualFrank]

Before yesterday's game VAR has done very well. Very poor last night, but overall... good.

[South West Claret.]

As I understand it VAR was supposed to help the refs. make the correct decision in the penalty area ie. ball-over the line or not.
As well as that (which surely they could definitely agree on) other fouls like shirt pulling, unlawful tackles, wrestling and man handling decisions would also help the refs make the right decisions.

What I don’t know is who's job/responsibility is it to call for the ref to have another look, does anyone know for certain a local ref. on here perhaps?

[FactualFrank]

Colombia should have been down to 10 men. Absolutely no debating needed. He moved down and then moved up to heatbutt Hendersen. A red card. No question.

What I don't get is how the referee showed him a yellow. It can't have been for the same offence as the ref never went to see it, so he booked him for something different. VAR must have been eating a sandwich at the time as they too missed it.

However, VAR can be just as crap as a referee, as it isn't the same people who watch the monitors. So they clearly make mistakes too. Overall though, I think they've been good. But were terrible yesterday.

[starting_11]

I do not understand how VAR misses some things and not others.

It's almost as if they're under instructions to "make the game more interesting"

[South West Claret.]

I do not understand how VAR misses some things and not others.

It's almost as if they're under instructions to "make the game more interesting"

I know what you mean but as we all know it was to arrive at or nearer to the getting “ right” decision.

[FactualFrank]

I do not understand how VAR misses some things and not others.

It's almost as if they're under instructions to "make the game more interesting"

I'd love to know the explanation for missing the 'chin butt' yesterday. I think they purposely didn't give it, which is basically fraud. But as we won, no more will be said about it. Dodgy as hell though.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

The referee did not see the incident and must have had his attention drawn to it by his AR or VAR. They probably said that there was the usual tugging and pushing going on and that Henderson had gone down because a Colombian put his head back into his chest and it ended up knocking him over.
They probably surmised that he was trying to stop Henderson holding on to him and that Henderson's reaction was over the top. hence no need to ask the referee to have another look but possibly advised him to issue a caution, although he had not witnessed the altercation.
Who knows? --I certainly don't but it is just my take on it and I totally dislike VAR.

Just to clarify to South West Claret it is not VAR that decides about ball over the line it is the totally separate system of goal line technology which I like very much!

[FactualFrank]

The referee did not see the incident and must have had his attention drawn to it by his AR or VAR. They probably said that there was the usual tugging and pushing going on and that Henderson had gone down because a Colombian put his head back into his chest and it ended up knocking him over.
They probably surmised that he was trying to stop Henderson holding on to him and that Henderson's reaction was over the top. hence no need to ask the referee to have another look but possibly advised him to issue a caution, although he had not witnessed the altercation.
Who knows? --I certainly don't but it is just my take on it and I totally dislike VAR.

Just to clarify to South West Claret it is not VAR that decides about ball over the line it is the totally separate system of goal line technology which I like very much!

What about him bringing his head up past his chest, right into his chin? And his attention can't have been drawn by VAR as otherwise, it would be a red card. He moves his head down to get more power into bringing his head back up into the chin. VAR can't have seen it. How can you not give a red card for that if you actually see it?

[South West Claret.]

“Just to clarify to South West Claret it is not VAR that decides about ball over the line it is the totally separate system of goal line technology which I like very much!”

Thanks for clarification on that AC.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Initial contact was with the chest and Henderson was holding the Colombian and he also had his head angled down --VAR perhaps considered it was six of one and half a dozen of the other because there was that much going on whilst the ref was trying to pace out the 10 yards. As I said, I do not know, I have just given you a possible reason because of all the usual things that go on in similar situations.
You really need to ask those looking after VAR.

[South West Claret.]

Thanks to AC for clarification on my goal line assumption, I’ve re-edited my original and posted again.

Fouls like shirt pulling, unlawful tackles, wrestling and man handling decisions would also help the refs make the right decisions.

What I don’t know is who's job/responsibility is it to call for the ref. to have another look, does anyone know for certain a local ref. on here perhaps?

[FactualFrank]

Initial contact was with the chest and Henderson was holding the Colombian and he also had his head angled down --VAR perhaps considered it was six of one and half a dozen of the other because there was that much going on whilst the ref was trying to pace out the 10 yards. As I said, I do not know, I have just given you a possible reason because of all the usual things that go on in similar situations.
You really need to ask those looking after VAR.

Initial contact could have been his big toe. It was still a sending off offence. That's not to be debated about. It was 100% a red card.

It's more about how VAR got it wrong. That's the issue.

Every man and his dog knows it was a red card.

[South West Claret.]

“Initial contact was with the chest and Henderson was holding the Colombian and he also had his head angled down “

Point taken AC but the “retaliation” was violent conduct so as FF has said is a red card.

One further thing that has occurred to me is with a corner does the ball have to be in play before a ref. can even give a foul?

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Initial contact could have been his big toe. It was still a sending off offence. That's not to be debated about. It was 100% a red card.

It's more about how VAR got it wrong. That's the issue.

Every man and his dog knows it was a red card.

Frank --you have to consider that the 4 VAR operators saw the incident different to yourself and advised the referee accordingly. VAR is not black and white and has no place in football. All it is doing is giving another opinion to an incident, or in this case, four different opinions to an incident which the onfield match official did not witness, although his onfield Assistant Referee may have witnessed it and had some input.

It did not result in a red card, which, in your opinion was wrong, however, it was not your opinion that counted--or mine-- or anyone else for that matter, The referee could not issue a red card, in fact, I was surprised to see him issue a yellow because he had not seen the incident.

VAR got it wrong, however, you don't know whether or no that was the case because you can't ask them and FIFA have not followed anything up as far as I can see, therefore, VAR got it right in their eyes and they are paying the piper.

South West Claret the answer to the question about a corner is that the ball does have to be in play for the referee to award anything.

[FactualFrank]

Mate, if you're going off the "It's not your opinion that counted", then close this messageboard.

In fact.... it was worth 2 red cards!

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Just one other thought about this. If Steven Defour was standing next to Harry Maguire, who was holding him, and Defour put his head back into Maguire's chest to try to get him off but his head hit Maguire's chin after goind up the chest ---would you expect Defour to be sent off for violent conduct or would you take their physical height into consideration and accept that there was doubt as to whether or not it was done on purpose?

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Mate, if you're going off the "It's not your opinion that counted", then close this messageboard.

In fact.... it was worth 2 red cards!

Frank, have a look in the match statistics, I can't find a red card anywhere so obviously they never took any notice of anyone else's opinon except the match officials. That is my point about opinions --it is not personal, I do not resort to personal attacks --there are too many of those on here anyway.

[FactualFrank]

Can we get this word 'chest' out of the discussion. He raised it purposely to nut his chin! Watch it again pal! He purposely nutted his head. That is NOT by accident.

Had an England or Burnley play done the same thing? I'd say they deserved a red card.

I can't believe you t see that as not a red card. Are you from Colombia?

[South West Claret.]

:South West Claret the answer to the question about a corner is that the ball does have to be in play for the referee to award anything.:

Thanks again AC for clarification.

More questions then answers on this flaming VAR thing

[FactualFrank]

Frank, have a look in the match statistics, I can't find a red card anywhere so obviously they never took any notice of anyone else's opinon except the match officials. That is my point about opinions --it is not personal, I do not resort to personal attacks --there are too many of those on here anyway.

Nothing personal at all, but I still can't believe how you think that.

The easiest way to sort this... do you honestly, hand on heart think the headbutt deserved a yellow card? And not a red?

[Ashingtonclaret46]

If I had been the referee and I have been many, many times at a lower level, I would not have issued a card at all because I would have been the same as the match referee and not have seen the incident because I was making things ready for the free kick to be taken. Therefore, as an official in the match I definitley would not have seen it as a red or yellow card but would have been aware that something had happened --the players would have made me aware --just as they all did last night with the match referee. You do not guess about what may or may not have happened.

Anything I think about watching it on TV is totally irrelevant. What is relevant is that, whatever VAR saw and said, they did not consider that it was worthy of a red card and they are all professional officials who officiate week in and week out in their own leagues so I can't argue against them because they are far better qualified than I was.

[FactualFrank]

If I had been the referee and I have been many, many times at a lower level, I would not have issued a card at all because I would have been the same as the match referee and not have seen the incident because I was making things ready for the free kick to be taken. Therefore, as an official in the match I definitley would not have seen it as a red or yellow card but would have been aware that something had happened --the players would have made me aware --just as they all did last night with the match referee. You do not guess about what may or may not have happened.

Anything I think about watching it on TV is totally irrelevant. What is relevant is that, whatever VAR saw and said, they did not consider that it was worthy of a red card and they are all professional officials who officiate week in and week out in their own leagues so I can't argue against them because they are far better qualified than I was.

You see this is what I disagree with. You would have missed it. No problem. We're all human and you can only do so many things at once.

That's not the issue. What is the issue, is you can see the incident again on VAR. You can go back to watch it. He purposely lowers his head and brings it up to chin him.

You don't need to be a referee to know, that is a straight red card.

FORGET not seeing it in real time. This is why VAR is here. So you can go back and watch the recording. It doesn't matter... it does not matter, if Hendersen is play acting. It doesn't matter if Hendersen was annoying him. He nutted him.

It's a red card. You don't need to be a referee to know that.

And 87% also think it was a red card on Twitter, who also watched it.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

VAR Rules and said no --it does not matter what anybody watching thinks it is what the match officials, along with their digital aids think that is important because they make the decision, so why can all those people who want VAR not accept the decision made by it? Everyone says that it will make things 100% correct and yet are still arguing about it --blimey --it's like Brexit!

Everyone, except a few of us older fans, want VAR but yet you are not prepared to accept the ruling given by VAR so --as the original poster asked "What's the point of VAR?"

I am not wasting any more time on this because it is a flawed system and always will be as far as football is concerned. The record will show that England won the match on penalties and that 8 players were cautioned and no player was dismissed.

[Conroy92]

With the stigma growing over the years that refs favour the 'big clubs', could it be that when in it comes to giving someone the benefit of the doubt they are favouring the smaller opposition?

[FactualFrank]

I am not wasting any more time on this

Thank the lord for that.

It's doing my swede in as well.

I'd be interested in what % of people think it was a red card, though. I'll go with close to 90%.

[martin_p]

VAR Rules and said no --it does not matter what anybody watching thinks it is what the match officials, along with their digital aids think that is important because they make the decision, so why can all those people who want VAR not accept the decision made by it? Everyone says that it will make things 100% correct and yet are still arguing about it --blimey --it's like Brexit!

Everyone, except a few of us older fans, want VAR but yet you are not prepared to accept the ruling given by VAR so --as the original poster asked "What's the point of VAR?"

I am not wasting any more time on this because it is a flawed system and always will be as far as football is concerned. The record will show that England won the match on penalties and that 8 players were cautioned and no player was dismissed.

All he’s asking for is an opinion on the incident, which I assume you have seen. No one claimed VAR would get things 100% correct. But if it ups the accuracy from (say) 85% to 95% on the big decisions then it will probably be considered a success.

[South West Claret.]

VAR 99.3% right claimed

http://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-world-c ... atform=amp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Evidently Maradonna wasn't impressed.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/ ... inst-engla" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[South West Claret.]

Evidently Maradonna wasn't impressed.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/ ... inst-engla" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As they say, Some mothers do have em.

[FactualFrank]

VAR 99.3% right claimed

http://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-world-c ... atform=amp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So the yellow knocked it down 0.7%!

[starting_11]

Evidently Maradonna wasn't impressed.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/ ... inst-engla" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Clearly he's back on the gear.

Must be smacked off his ******* tits!

[Spijed]

Another blatant penalty missed!

[dsr]

Due to the commentators' and producer's very poor grasp of the situation (or of the rules), we didn't see the proper angle that would give definitive proof. But it looked to me like the ball was out of play before there was any contact, and I dare say that's why VAR didn't refer it.

[Devils_Advocate]

The ball was definitely just still in play when contact was made but the Brazilian had lost control and had no way of getting near the ball before it went out of play had their been no contact.

I have no idea what the correct ruling is for this scenario

[taio]

Due to the commentators' and producer's very poor grasp of the situation (or of the rules), we didn't see the proper angle that would give definitive proof. But it looked to me like the ball was out of play before there was any contact, and I dare say that's why VAR didn't refer it.

The ball was definitely still in play.

[Imploding Turtle]

Due to the commentators' and producer's very poor grasp of the situation (or of the rules), we didn't see the proper angle that would give definitive proof. But it looked to me like the ball was out of play before there was any contact, and I dare say that's why VAR didn't refer it.

This...



... was after this ...

[South West Claret.]

Definitely a penalty as was shown in slow motion, so another wrong decision by the people behind VAR tonight.