Lazio ultras tell it like it is

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:48 pm

I have shown admiration for their actions in writing the note, Ziz. Who is pulling whose leg here? You're not a 100 years old are you? How could you take me seriously, regarding the picture?

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:03 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:A free country with racially segregated sections in sports stadia?

I've noticed you are excellent at jumping to conclusions LC. I was answering a straightforward question as to whether I would have a problem if it was a group of black people making the same demands and my answer was a simple 'no, I wouldn't, if white people were allowed the same freedom'. That is not racial segregation that is simply giving people what the want and ask for, would you have a problem with that? I'm not forcing anyone into a procrustean bed of sameness, which unfortunately is what the politically correct of this world would do. People are different and want different things and political correctness would have us forgoe that freedom to be different because something is 'inappropriate'. I am certain many would have us all wearing the same clothes, same hairstyle and have gender unspecific first names, with an option on not even mentioning the terms male or female, black or white or even big or small. We could then make hundreds of thousands of people unemployed by closing gender specific clothes shops, hairdressers, shoe shops, etc. Ultimately we could ban sex and procreate through artificial insemination so that the PC police could make sure no female (or male) was being taken advantage of, in that way there would be no need to sign a pre-sex contract giving permission for it.
You don't have to be racist, sexist, homophobic or anything else to see that what is happening to the world is the promotion of 'sameness' when life really isn't like that. Despite my love of equality and fairness to all regardless of gender, colour, race or creed I still believe in a persons right to believe what they wish, however stupid or biased, because we are not born with a set of moral codes they are given to us/forced on us by society and societies are different. The problem arises when people and/or societies think that their moral codes are right and others are wrong and then start trying to 'educate' the 'wrong' ones to their way of thinking. Life is what it is and to force your own beliefs on others is just plain arrogant and ethnocentric.

Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:05 pm

The president of the club got it right in my opinion.

He just laughed at the suggestion and said it's the Ultras, it's men, it's football, it's Italy. Everyone will have forgotten about it in three days time. Don't take it to seriously.

It's others making mountains out of mole hills either way.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:08 pm

Interesting point: apparently the most right wing fascist club in Italy is the 'inoffensive' Bologna who have a history of it right back to Mussolini.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:10 pm

Pstotto wrote:How could you take me seriously

Indeed

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:15 pm

Not jumping to conclusions at all

Essentially a sports ground segregated (even by choice) isn't good.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with wondering at the motivations of anyone who suggests anything different.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:26 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Not jumping to conclusions at all

Essentially a sports ground segregated (even by choice) isn't good.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with wondering at the motivations of anyone who suggests anything different.

So what 'conclusion' would you jump to about my statement? And why would giving people what they want be 'not good' just because it differed from your view of the way things should be. I think maybe you should have another look at the conclusion to my post LC. What is 'wrong' is forcing your views (I use the term generically) on others just because you (again generically) think you are right and they are wrong? Morals are subjective and as such have no right or wrong, okay some are generally accepted (murder, assault, theft etc.) but basic morals are only someone's opinion. Hence over the years morals have changed. Many people moan about declining moral standards but they are NOT declining, they are just changing and the ones thinking they are 'declining' are simply unhappy with that fact.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:32 pm

houseboy wrote:Interesting point: apparently the most right wing fascist club in Italy is the 'inoffensive' Bologna who have a history of it right back to Mussolini.

While there are fascist elements of support there (not uncommon in Italy), to say that Bologna is the most right wing fascist club in Italy is false. If anything, it's one of the most left wing clubs (and cities) in Italy.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:01 pm

Again, not jumping to conclusions at all.

Segregated sports stadia are a sign of authoritarian, apartheid systems seen in South Africa and the American south in less enlightened times.

Its not a great leap to make to see why the Lazio ultras are trying to do that is it?

Not sure where you are going with this to be honest

Are you saying that we should respect those with fascist views?

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:13 pm

Not everyone likes everyone whatever persuasion.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:39 pm

tim_noone wrote:Not everyone likes everyone whatever persuasion.

Sure, but fascist neanderthals should be told to suck it up. They tried to impose their views in the 30's and 40's, you might have heard of the period?

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:02 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Not jumping to conclusions at all

Essentially a sports ground segregated (even by choice) isn't good.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with wondering at the motivations of anyone who suggests anything different.

I like being segregated from fans of the opposing team. I know that's a long way from you're suggesting LC but where do we draw the line?

I can sort of see where Houseboy is coming from. Equality doesn't happen other than in Maths. Arguably, in the UK, women have more rights but men have more opportunity. You can have a women only gym but the market and physical attributes dictate that women footballers won't ever be watched or paid as much as men. That's about opportunity not rights.

'Sameness' does sound creepy. I didn't want to go with Mrs G on her girls' trip to Barca and I don't want her to come out with the lads on Friday.

The Italian families I know are pretty much run by the women, and the sexes respect each other and laugh at each other. I like that.

Saying 'well done' to the Ultras for demanding a small space of male exclusivity is daft though. They're a bunch of right wing nutters who would probably poo themselves if their mums found out what they were up to.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:10 pm

If they were just fascist neanderthals then why the concern via a polite notice? They haven't just gone and given grief to those they would rather not be in their 'corporate hospitality for them' tiny bit of the stadium. Zizkov is being hysterical and political naive. Political correctness is THE FASCIST MOVEMENT OF OUR TIMES.

Via the computer graphic revolution 'they' are trying to create a uni-soul that fits all folk, where via psychology and subliminality they are creating gaps in the psyche to then fill with their mechanics like for example the place of the apex of the breath as it goes in and out, to create not just the input but the reaction to the input as well, carefully worked out, the COGnition and where they can put what bit on what wheels, for a universal response to graphic stimuli, subtly tested out on an unsuspecting populace as they watch football i.e all the swiping of the psyches that goes on under the auspices of the 'replay moment,' like the graphic football 'underpants' on MOTD pushing one's psyche to the back of one's head every few minutes.

Now that is sinister, zizkov.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:13 pm

You draw the line at segregated sports stadia (not including away fans obviously)

Numerous threads on here by people with right leaning views all refused to accept the most basic of basic points.

You don't wake up one morning with Auschwitz on your doorstep, you get there by little steps, and they all start somewhere. Thats what history has taught us.

Its just as bad as when the left do it btw

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:19 pm

Quite right Lancs but the problem seems to be that the backward rants of a bunch of football hooligans get too much oxygen over here.

It isn't really news. We know what they are. It isn't a big gender battle that, btw, 90 per cent of men and women can't be bothered with.

It's just Lazio Ultras and no-one in Italy will care.

Italy has more to worry about.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:21 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:You draw the line at segregated sports stadia (not including away fans obviously)

Numerous threads on here by people with right leaning views all refused to accept the most basic of basic points.

You don't wake up one morning with Auschwitz on your doorstep, you get there by little steps, and they all start somewhere. Thats what history has taught us.

Its just as bad as when the left do it btw

Exactly. This evening i'm going to a concert in Wenceslas square celebrating the fight against, and eventual liberation from the Communist Soviet Russia. Local football grounds here see occasional Sieg Heil chants, albeit isolated. I think i'm well aware of how little you need to scrape below the surface to find what would rise again given half a chance.

I'll not take political lectures from a fella who could start an argument in his own head Pstotto, if you don't mind. You sort yourself out first eh lad?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:24 pm

Guich, have you seen who runs the Italian government at the moment?

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:34 pm

Yep Lancs - and that's the bigger problem I'm talking about.

Telling the Ultras they have to have women sitting with them would be like taking a dustpan and brush to an earthquake.

I don't know what the solution is mind

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:35 pm

Guich wrote:Telling the Ultras they have to have women sitting with them would be like taking a dustpan and brush to an earthquake.

I don't know what the solution is mind

Can someone translate "grow the **** up" into Italian for me? Its for a thing.....

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:41 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:Can someone translate "grow the **** up" into Italian for me? Its for a thing.....

Problem is...and we spend a bit of time in Italy, speaking to young people (not just in the deep south) is very much like speaking to old people over here.

You think - 'that's a bit sexist...or that's a bit racist...but they're lovely people and in their own country so who are we to complain.'

The Ultras are just like our EDL - idiots.

But Italians are not like us. There we go being a bit racist again.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:43 pm

No one is suggesting that everyone has to be like us.

But if the far right are gaining ground in places were its only a couple of generations ago that it ended in the country being pretty much destroyed, then its got to be called out.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:13 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:While there are fascist elements of support there (not uncommon in Italy), to say that Bologna is the most right wing fascist club in Italy is false. If anything, it's one of the most left wing clubs (and cities) in Italy.

I stand corrected but that was something I read about them years ago that is maybe no longer applicable. As I say it is quite a while ago (Google didn't exist at the time). It had something to do with a chap named Leandro Apernati who was an official at the club I think and who was a close friend or aid of Mussolini, who apparently attended games at the club. I think it stained them for quite a while. The club as it stands now, as you say, still has its fascist element but then again, as you say, so do many clubs in Italy. The ground itself is architecturally very pleasing with its very distinctive tower on the one side (the Maratona Tower I think). Apparently there was also a statue of 'Il Duce' at the ground for nearly 20 years.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:20 pm

houseboy wrote:I've noticed you are excellent at jumping to conclusions LC. I was answering a straightforward question as to whether I would have a problem if it was a group of black people making the same demands and my answer was a simple 'no, I wouldn't, if white people were allowed the same freedom'. That is not racial segregation that is simply giving people what the want and ask for, would you have a problem with that?....

How could you allocate a block of seats as whites-only and blacks-only at the same time?

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:21 pm

That's your problem Ziz, if you care not to take note of what Lancaster Claret quite rightly claims is a little-by-little insidious parasitism on the world's favourite sport via computer graphic 'replay' mind-control interjections. That's the google self-drive fascism of now, not a few footy fans in Italy wanting to swear out of earshot of the ladies etc. and politely asking them not to be in their 10-row private members 'box.'

It is also interesting to note, as someone mentioned above, that this story would not exactly have made the BBC News at Six in 1975 etc.

REMEMBER the BBC is using the Lazio Ultras as scapegoats to detract from their fascist remit. It's called political thinking.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:21 pm

Greenmile wrote:How could you allocate a block of seats as whites-only and blacks-only at the same time?

That would be fun at St. James's park.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:42 pm

Pstotto wrote:That's your problem Ziz, if you care not to take note of what Lancaster Claret quite rightly claims is a little-by-little insidious parasitism on the world's favourite sport via computer graphic 'replay' mind-control interjections. That's the google self-drive fascism of now, not a few footy fans in Italy wanting to swear out of earshot of the ladies etc. and politely asking them not to be in their 10-row private members 'box.'

It is also interesting to note, as someone mentioned above, that this story would not exactly have made the BBC News at Six in 1975 etc.

REMEMBER the BBC is using the Lazio Ultras as scapegoats to detract from their fascist remit. It's called political thinking.

Quoting this for Lancaster, as I’m sure he’ll be interested to learn that it was he who made the claim about “computer graphic replay mind control interjections” and not the board’s resident spice-addict.

For Pstotto - some of what you say makes sense (although I may disagree), but you should recognise that the mind control stuff (be it from the BBC, or the Dalai Llama, or whoever) is purely a figment of your paranoia. You may also want to read up on fascism - it doesn’t have much to do with political correctness.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:55 pm

He's smacked off his tits.

Whatever gets you through the day mate

ecc · Post by **ecc** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:58 pm

This is one of the worst threads I've ever read on here and on CM before and, my God, that's saying something.

Why should women and girls not be allowed to benefit from a sport we all love? I'm old enough to remember when it wasn't a great idea to take women and children to watch matches. One of the better things post-Taylor has been to make it safe for families to go to games. Ten days ago I took my ten-year-old to watch a French Second Division match in the away end. Auxerre have ultras like all French clubs but there's never violence. There were quite a few children and females ranging from 7 to 70 and so much the better. And there was even a black (yes, black) bloke there who goes to every Auxerre match home and away. And all his mates are white.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:52 pm

houseboy wrote:Now then IT, where did I say ban women from stadia (not stadiums by the way)? I met my first 'proper' girlfriend at a league cup replay at Old Trafford late 60's and became a 'man' a few days later. She was a real hardcore Claret who would happily brain anyone who insulted her team. She was from Bacup though so I suppose that is understandable. She eventually joined the army so that she could take out her violent tendencies on 'the enemy'. I suppose this was because at the time we never really played Rovers and she needed an outlet.

Hmmmm.. I think I know her did she have one tooth and tattoos?

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:05 pm

When I started going to Turf Moor, I sat in the stand with my Nan and Grandad, it would have been idiotic to have been among the weather swirls of melee with them on the terraces of violence etc. before crowd segregation.

Obviously I was joking Ziz about the picture, I'm sure that picture must have been taken either by Hitler or his close aids, because the zing heil is towards the camera. I doubt you were there.

Nobody has said anything about stopping women and children watching football at Lazio or anywhere else, it's just a few folks saying they want their little bit which would have been the case with terracing and seating arrangements.

That is no different than an executive box.

Like an above poster, they want a lads day out, which is fair enough.

I think that is correct. Ecc is jumping to the conclusions of his own p.c fascist prejudice along with ziz and Lancaster (who pointed out the insidious nature of how things accrue.)

If you go to the cinema in Accrington, they have ads where they try and create tunnel vision by opening and closing repeatedly the field of view. That is the fascism of today in England against the populace with mind-control graphics.

If Ziz thinks that's paranoid he must have the visual awareness of an amoeba so he's not affected.

I'm not on drugs, ziz by the way.

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:36 am

Obviously not met some of the lesbians I have. Would kill you and **** on your dead corpse after. Probably missing a trick there, Lazio Ultras.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:11 am

Greenmile wrote:How could you allocate a block of seats as whites-only and blacks-only at the same time?

It's actually very easy if all the people concerned are happy with it LC. It's called freedom of choice. Supposing we had always had unisex toilets and then someone suggested we have separate toilets for males and females, wouldn't that be dreadful? As long as no-one is throwing their politically correct hands up in horror and all parties are happy with it anything is possible.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:35 am

Steve1956 wrote:Hmmmm.. I think I know her did she have one tooth and tattoos?

She didn't have a tattoo but she could crack a walnut with her thighs. Actually on the said night of 'achieving my manhood' I had further excitement later on. I went into Bacup town centre to catch the bus home (I lived in Rawtenstall at the time) and was confronted by a gang of marauding locals looking for 'outsiders' and I was it. I kid you not they chased me all the way to Waterfoot before they gave up on their prey. Needless to say I was absolutely fooked (in every sense) by the time I got home.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:41 am

houseboy wrote:It's actually very easy if all the people concerned are happy with it LC. It's called freedom of choice. Supposing we had always had unisex toilets and then someone suggested we have separate toilets for males and females, wouldn't that be dreadful? As long as no-one is throwing their politically correct hands up in horror and all parties are happy with it anything is possible.

You’ve misunderstood my question. For absolute “equality” you would need to allocate the same block as being black only and white only at the same time, as not all blocks are equal. This would be self-evidently impossible.

Alternatively you could achieve equality by letting people sit where they want and not segregating at all.

You also seem to think I’m LC, but that’s ok with me. Pstotto thought I was Zizkovclaret earlier. Is my username not appearing on my posts or something?

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:00 am

Greenmile, you can't have equality at Lazio's ground because all the seating positions and views of the pitch are different. Some seats are better than others.

Personally, If I were a Lazio fan I wouldn't want to sit on the first ten rows of the Curva Nord, they are probably the worse seats in the stadium. I'd be as near to the half-way line as possible and about half-way up.

Nobody is complaining about private boxes, or corporate seating. At Turf Moor there are rows for fans bricked off from the rest. Essentially,there's no difference between one fan club and another, regarding all those allowed in.

There are notices on this site for Accy Clarets etc.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:04 am

Us lefties are all the same to this lot.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:40 am

Greenmile wrote:You’ve misunderstood my question. For absolute “equality” you would need to allocate the same block as being black only and white only at the same time, as not all blocks are equal. This would be self-evidently impossible.

Alternatively you could achieve equality by letting people sit where they want and not segregating at all.

You also seem to think I’m LC, but that’s ok with me. Pstotto thought I was Zizkovclaret earlier. Is my username not appearing on my posts or something?

No mate it's just me being stupid, I replied to a post previously to LC and got a tad confused.
In answer to your first bit couldn't the allocation be 'on demand' as opposed to 'sectional'? There is nothing to say that to be equal there has to be similar room available just room available for those wanting to take part. If a hundred people of (for the sake of argument) type A want to be segregated (for whatever reason and I am NOT advocating segregation) and 50 people of type B want the same there is no reason to allocate the same space and if the numbers change then so, theoretically, could the space. Segregation works in two ways, the negative way is by telling someone where they HAVE to sit (as in the old apartheid system in SA), the more positive way is to say sorry we have a reserved section but other than that you can sit wherever you like. As someone has already sort of pointed out what would the directors think if you or I suddenly rocked up demanding to sit with them? I think security would be swiftly called and we would be encouraged to 'go away'. Or what about demanding to sit in a corporate box uninvited? Or is segregation okay only when you can afford it?
Segregation takes on different forms, not just because of colour or race or gender, but many seem to think it is acceptable providing you can afford to buy it.
The problem with our society and the growing political correctness is that so many people look at racial, sexual or colour inequality (to name just three) and (rightly in many cases) complain about it but everyone seems to think that financial inequality is perfectly acceptable.
Inequality and unfairness abound in this and other countries and that is a fact of life, and if you want equality, real equality, you have to look at ALL aspects of it, not just the bits you (not you personally GM) are uncomfortable with. Otherwise why bother with equality at all? I am a life long egalitarian but I also am realistic enough to realise that there are so many aspects to it that it is a veritable minefield when you start to take it apart and analyse it.

ecc · Post by **ecc** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:51 am

From the Livorno Official Site:

AS Livorno Calcio

Le donne in curva nord? Noi, non abbiamo problemi... anche in prima fila

"Women in Curva Nord? No problem for us...even in the front row."

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:59 am

houseboy wrote:No mate it's just me being stupid, I replied to a post previously to LC and got a tad confused.
In answer to your first bit couldn't the allocation be 'on demand' as opposed to 'sectional'? There is nothing to say that to be equal there has to be similar room available just room available for those wanting to take part. If a hundred people of (for the sake of argument) type A want to be segregated (for whatever reason and I am NOT advocating segregation) and 50 people of type B want the same there is no reason to allocate the same space and if the numbers change then so, theoretically, could the space. Segregation works in two ways, the negative way is by telling someone where they HAVE to sit (as in the old apartheid system in SA), the more positive way is to say sorry we have a reserved section but other than that you can sit wherever you like. As someone has already sort of pointed out what would the directors think if you or I suddenly rocked up demanding to sit with them? I think security would be swiftly called and we would be encouraged to 'go away'. Or what about demanding to sit in a corporate box uninvited? Or is segregation okay only when you can afford it?
Segregation takes on different forms, not just because of colour or race or gender, but many seem to think it is acceptable providing you can afford to buy it.
The problem with our society and the growing political correctness is that so many people look at racial, sexual or colour inequality (to name just three) and (rightly in many cases) complain about it but everyone seems to think that financial inequality is perfectly acceptable.
Inequality and unfairness abound in this and other countries and that is a fact of life, and if you want equality, real equality, you have to look at ALL aspects of it, not just the bits you (not you personally GM) are uncomfortable with. Otherwise why bother with equality at all? I am a life long egalitarian but I also am realistic enough to realise that there are so many aspects to it that it is a veritable minefield when you start to take it apart and analyse it.

I don’t have time to address all of this, but of course financial inequality is acceptable. If you can’t afford the best seats in the house then you can’t sit there.

What I would have a problem with would be if a club said that, irrespective of affordability, only men / white people / insert group here are allowed to sit in certain parts of the ground, whether that’s the corporate seats, the curva nord, or anywhere else.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:04 pm

Pstotto wrote:... And after his post, ecc slopes off to his favourite porn site to watch women with dick and balls for his anysex w*nk.

So. No men-only areas on Earth for ecc, no women areas only. All clubs, any association, any seating anywhere. Do not give up your priority seat on the bus or train, yeah?

You need help.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:11 pm

Pathetic, Bordeaux. Some seats are better than others, who wants to be in the curva nord anyway, I wouldn't. I'll insult ecc as ecc insults my argument, fair enough.

See post 35, munchkin.

If the Pope and his Vatican entourage booked a private box at the Stadium, ecc, Bordeaux, Lancaster and greenmile would throw a fit.

Better complain to FIFA that it's men-only teams next????????????

Meanwhile in 2050 when it's mixed teams: "Get your tits out Love, to distract him from scoring the penalty."

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:12 pm

Greenmile wrote:I don’t have time to address all of this, but of course financial inequality is acceptable. If you can’t afford the best seats in the house then you can’t sit there.

What I would have a problem with would be if a club said that, irrespective of affordability, only men / white people / insert group here are allowed to sit in certain parts of the ground, whether that’s the corporate seats, the curva nord, or anywhere else.

So type A people want a section to themselves and are willing to pay a bit more for their seats. Would That be okay? Or if you came to a match with a grand in your back pocket and said I want to sit in the directors box and they refused how would that work? If financial elitism is okay what is wrong with racial elitism, or sexual elitism? Is elitism acceptable if you can afford to BUY it? Inequality is what it is and I don't like it but I won't single out inequality as being more acceptable in some cases than others because if you do that you are then making a subjective decision, based on personal views, of what is acceptable or not.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:22 pm

Pstotto wrote:Pathetic, Bordeaux. Some seats are better than others, who wants to be in the curva nord anyway, I wouldn't. I'll insult ecc as ecc insults my argument, fair enough.

See post 35, munchkin.

If the Pope and his Vatican entourage booked a private box at the Stadium, ecc, Bordeaux, Lancaster and greenmile would throw a fit.

Better complain to FIFA that it's men-only teams next????????????

Meanwhile in 2050 when it's mixed teams: "Get your tits out Love, to distract him from scoring the penalty."

Are you ok?

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:36 pm

No, because I've just missed the train to the beach thanks to you and it will be low tide later.

There has never ever been any equality or equal opportunities for equal people, even among identical twins. Basing one's politics around a total misnomer is obviously as idiotic as following the yellow brick road.

It's the ontology of life, sir.

... And one can be 100% certain that the so-called left of Corbyn etc. won't be banging the drum for equal land value, equal rates and equal property prices per architectonic metres per sq. in the UK, any time soon.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:10 pm

houseboy wrote:So type A people want a section to themselves and are willing to pay a bit more for their seats. Would That be okay? ...

Not if type B people were banned from sitting in the same section, even if they could afford it, no.

Re financial inequality, obviously it’s a bad thing and in an ideal world everyone would be able to afford everything they wanted, whilst robots did all the work for us, but in the real world that just doesn’t happen. That doesn’t mean we should accept all other kinds of inequality.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:53 pm

houseboy wrote:So type A people want a section to themselves and are willing to pay a bit more for their seats. Would That be okay? Or if you came to a match with a grand in your back pocket and said I want to sit in the directors box and they refused how would that work? If financial elitism is okay what is wrong with racial elitism, or sexual elitism? Is elitism acceptable if you can afford to BUY it? Inequality is what it is and I don't like it but I won't single out inequality as being more acceptable in some cases than others because if you do that you are then making a subjective decision, based on personal views, of what is acceptable or not.

Houseboy - been catching up on this thread and you are tying yourself up in knots.

To answer your question - if financial elitism is ok what is wrong with racial elitism or sexual elitism ?....the latter 2 are both racist and sexist whereas the first one is simply a fact of life that some people have more money than others.

As for inequality not being more acceptable in some areas than others - really ?
The colour of your skin or your sex is outside of your control - there is no rationale argument for being discriminated against for either. Even the "freedom of speech" type argument and peoples rights to be racist and sexist does not exactly hold water does it ?....where are the boundaries here ? How racist or sexist are they allowed to be....slavery and genocide too far I guess ?

Inequality of wealth - will always exist but not outside of the control of the individual. Providing a service or product at a higher cost is not discriminating against any individual as anybody can purchase that service or product...of course they need to be able to afford it but that is not discrimination its simply differentiation.
Elitism is something completely different - that can be not allowing a certain person of creed, colour, religion, background, sex etc to enter a certain club or society etc - that is of course wrong and can also be judged as racist or sexist in certain cases. However, that said not allowing someone from the "wrong" background into an elitist organisation whilst I am in no way advocating is not as bad as not allowing them in for the colour of their skin or sex (if indeed their is any desire from women or men or white or black people to join these organisations).

As for the rest of this thread.....it`s got very very weird !!
To bring it back to its most simplistic point how can it be right for a group of right wing racist / facist football supporters to determine who they think should be allowed to sit in a certain section of a football ground ? I have no real big issue with them expressing their wishes - on the scale of other things these people want to happen in society its really quite insignificant. They just need to be told the answer is no.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:58 pm

houseboy wrote:She didn't have a tattoo but she could crack a walnut with her thighs. Actually on the said night of 'achieving my manhood' I had further excitement later on. I went into Bacup town centre to catch the bus home (I lived in Rawtenstall at the time) and was confronted by a gang of marauding locals looking for 'outsiders' and I was it. I kid you not they chased me all the way to Waterfoot before they gave up on their prey. Needless to say I was absolutely fooked (in every sense) by the time I got home.

A Rawtenstall boy strolling around Bacup,you must have been desperate for a shag mate

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:59 pm

Greenmile wrote:Not if type B people were banned from sitting in the same section, even if they could afford it, no.

Re financial inequality, obviously it’s a bad thing and in an ideal world everyone would be able to afford everything they wanted, whilst robots did all the work for us, but in the real world that just doesn’t happen. That doesn’t mean we should accept all other kinds of inequality.

You missed my point about the directors box. You could 'afford' to sit in there if you had a grand in your back pocket, would you be allowed to? I think not. What about people who can 'afford' to go into a high priced celebrity nightclub but are turned away because they don't 'look' right or they are not a famous face? And if both type A and type B people agreed they want their own areas would you take away that freedom to do so because you think it is wrong? Would you destroy the whole social system of India because you don't agree with the caste system? Do you think it's fair that a person with a small income should be harshly punished for a speeding fine that may cost him half a weeks wages and a millionaire should get the same fine that frankly he would even notice paying, therefore is NOT punished at all?
What is coming across, and forgive me if I'm wrong, is that it is okay for someone to be discriminated against because they are financially worse off than someone else through no fault of their own but it is wrong for two like minded groups to discriminate against each other by common consent? Surely that is wrong isn't it?

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:03 pm

Steve1956 wrote:A Rawtenstall boy strolling around Bacup,you must have been desperate for a shag mate

It was my first time mate, prior to that I didn't know what I was missing. I went out with her for a few weeks after that but I found a way from her house to a bus stop out of town. Nothing keeps a boy from his oats mate.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:10 pm

houseboy wrote:It was my first time mate, prior to that I didn't know what I was missing. I went out with her for a few weeks after that but I found a way from her house to a bus stop out of town. Nothing keeps a boy from his oats mate.