Jacob Rees Mogg.

[Lancasterclaret]

Not at all!

If he doesn't know where it is, then he's unlikely to give a **** about it.

That was my point.

Everything in his actual voting record (already pointed out) suggests he gives zero ***** about those in society and the regions of the UK which are struggling,

[Falcon]

Yes but he "tells it like it is" i.e. talks a load of old populist boll0cks

[Lancasterclaret]

I know that, but its the likes of Staying up who listen to what he says rather than go "I'll just check what he's actually done for the less advantaged" are the problem. Not interested in the slightest in finding stuff out that might distort their view of people and the world.

I have to admit to finding it hilarious that he only just realised how popular he actually is in the Conservative Party.

[android]

You have to be a very special type of dim, and brainwashed forelock tugger if you're an ordinary chap aligning yourself with this latter day Little Lord Fauntleroy, and to consider Tony Benn as a threat you really do need to drink every drop of Daily Mail milk.

The funny thing about that is that Benn actually was titled. Viscount Anthony Wedgwood Benn I think, but apologies to ordinary chaps everywhere if I have got the title of their posh hero wrong.

[android]

Interestingly, he has been busy moving a trust fund from a company that he helped establish to Ireland as he is worried about the financial risks involved after Brexit.

If that is the same story that was doing the rounds a year or so ago then it is total rubbish and a none story Dermot.

[AndrewJB]

If that is the same story that was doing the rounds a year or so ago then it is total rubbish and a none story Dermot.

This is Rees Mogg defending himself in that story that isn't actually a real story.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 98041.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[android]

Yes, that is the story I am talking about Andrew.

I explained this to Lancaster a few months back and he was gracious enough to defer to my knowledge in this area. I disagree with you politically but you don't do the hate stuff so I will give it another go for your benefit:

UK investment companies have managed funds that have a listing in Ireland for many years now (long before the referendum) and this is just another of those funds. Anyone with a UK pension fund will almost certainly have an interest in some of these (thousands of) funds. JRM would NOT be a director of the fund (just the management company). The fund has to have an independent board of directors and they are duty bound to list every risk under the sun - political, financial, currency, investment - pages and pages of backside covering required by the financial authorities. JRM would not be able to stop the independent directors mentioning Brexit as a risk even if he wanted to (and he obviously is not going to be the only person in the country to think the Brexit process presents no risks - he just happens to personally believe the benefits outweigh the risks). It also has nothing to do with tax evasion either but I can't be bothered going into that.

There are very few journalists (including financial journalists) who understand financial stuff so we get none stories like this.

I am not a huge fan of JRM (like his manners though - especially in the face of yobbish opponents) but this story has NOTHING to do with Brexit and there is literally NOTHING in it.

As I have taken the trouble - a brief acknowledgment would be appreciated!

[mikeS]

Pretty Sure he’s a time-traveller from the 19th century come to visit us for a bit.

[houseboy]

These are scary times for politics in the UK. Especially when I, an undereducated pleb, find many MPs, including those on the front and shadow bench, to be most underwhelming, even thick.

If they were thick I could forgive them but they aren't and that is the real danger.

[Bosscat]

The funny thing about that is that Benn actually was titled. Viscount Anthony Wedgwood Benn I think, but apologies to ordinary chaps everywhere if I have got the title of their posh hero wrong.

Yup he renounced his title ( 2nd Viscount Stansgate)
to stay in the commons instead of over the way in the Lords....

[nil_desperandum]

Yup he renounced his title ( 2nd Viscount Stansgate)
to stay in the commons instead of over the way in the Lords....

Indeed. His father was made a Peer by Churchill in 1942 for his service both in the war, and in India, and as it was an hereditary peerage it should have passed to the eldest son when he died . But he was killed in the war so on death, (in 1960) - it therefore passed to Anthony - the 2nd son. This mean't that he was denied the right to sit in the Commons even though he held a seat since 1950. (Democratically elected).
He then stood in and won a By-election, but it made no difference in law. (Indeed it was ruled that his defeated Conservative opponent should take his seat!)
W- Benn had to fight to renounce the peerage, and therefore represent the people who had voted for him. Eventually after a couple of years the rules / law were changed.

[Imploding Turtle]

Indeed. His father was made a Peer by Churchill in 1942 for his service both in the war, and in India, and as it was an hereditary peerage it should have passed to the eldest son when he died . But he was killed in the war so on death, (in 1960) - it therefore passed to Anthony - the 2nd son. This mean't that he was denied the right to sit in the Commons even though he held a seat since 1950. (Democratically elected).
He then stood in and won a By-election, but it made no difference in law. (Indeed it was ruled that his defeated Conservative opponent should take his seat!)
W- Benn had to fight to renounce the peerage, and therefore represent the people who had voted for him. Eventually after a couple of years the rules / law were changed.

Sure sounds like an "enemy", doesn't he?

[Clarets4me]

Yes, that is the story I am talking about Andrew.

I explained this to Lancaster a few months back and he was gracious enough to defer to my knowledge in this area. I disagree with you politically but you don't do the hate stuff so I will give it another go for your benefit:

UK investment companies have managed funds that have a listing in Ireland for many years now (long before the referendum) and this is just another of those funds. Anyone with a UK pension fund will almost certainly have an interest in some of these (thousands of) funds. JRM would NOT be a director of the fund (just the management company). The fund has to have an independent board of directors and they are duty bound to list every risk under the sun - political, financial, currency, investment - pages and pages of backside covering required by the financial authorities. JRM would not be able to stop the independent directors mentioning Brexit as a risk even if he wanted to (and he obviously is not going to be the only person in the country to think the Brexit process presents no risks - he just happens to personally believe the benefits outweigh the risks). It also has nothing to do with tax evasion either but I can't be bothered going into that.

There are very few journalists (including financial journalists) who understand financial stuff so we get none stories like this.

I am not a huge fan of JRM (like his manners though - especially in the face of yobbish opponents) but this story has NOTHING to do with Brexit and there is literally NOTHING in it.

As I have taken the trouble - a brief acknowledgment would be appreciated!

I quite agree with you android, rarely agree wholly with Lancs or AndrewJB, and I know they don't with me but they're always courteous and read other viewpoints, and never personalise things with insults or name calling .
The poster earlier in this thread could learn a thing or two from them...

[Damo]

An utter, total c-word, who makes his fellow Tories look positively nice by comparison.

Hope he becomes their next leader.

Thanks for your intellectual contribution to the conversation.

[Imploding Turtle]

I think if you're going to mock someone for their nonintellectual contribution you might not want your most recent contribution to be something like this.

He certainly gets the terminally unemployed folks, backs up.
Fair play to him

[Damo]

I think if you're going to mock someone for their nonintellectual contribution you might not want your most recent contribution to be something like this.

I wasn't mocking him for his nonintellectual contribution

[Stayingup]

Not at all!

If he doesn't know where it is, then he's unlikely to give a **** about it.

That was my point.

Everything in his actual voting record (already pointed out) suggests he gives zero ***** about those in society and the regions of the UK which are struggling,

He cares about England and giving our independence over to a hostile foreign power which is unelected, not able to be voted out ( totally anti democratic) is unnacountable and is currently a dysfunctional organization.

[Stayingup]

I know that, but its the likes of Staying up who listen to what he says rather than go "I'll just check what he's actually done for the less advantaged" are the problem. Not interested in the slightest in finding stuff out that might distort their view of people and the world.

I have to admit to finding it hilarious that he only just realised how popular he actually is in the Conservative Party.

What has he actually done for the less advantaged. Tell me what can he do? He's not the PM not even a minister. Which current politician has done something for the less disadvantaged? And just who are the less disadvantaged? What do you mean by less disadvantaged here in UK?

I can tell you this. I have travelled and worked in communist countries. For example Russia, Belarus, China back in the day and 99.9% of their population was disadvantaged. No opportunity to use their talents to improve their lot. All institutionalised. In the UK we have the opportunity. Some take it some don't.

[HarryPottsDesk]

God Almighty.

[Imploding Turtle]

I wasn't mocking him for his nonintellectual contribution

Does this kind of lying not embarrass you?

[Lancasterclaret]

Just check his voting record on real stuff, rather than on fantasy flag waving ********!

[Damo]

Does this kind of lying not embarrass you?

Not as much as carrying on this conversation with you charlie

[aggi]

He cares about England and giving our independence over to a hostile foreign power which is unelected, not able to be voted out ( totally anti democratic) is unnacountable and is currently a dysfunctional organization.

House of Lords? They're not foreign though, any more clues.

[Imploding Turtle]

The EU are a hostile foreign power?

[cblantfanclub]

He wants to leave Europe so we can have control over some of the financial restrictions imposed on us by Europe that stop him and his city chums screwing the system over for their gain. I'm sure Android can explain in more detail.
Irrespective of his position within his company there is nothing to stop him reassuring investors that there is no need to flee to Dublin as Brexit is going to be a success, though he did say on a recent radio interview it will be 50 years before before we feel the benefits - so it might only appeal to young investors.
Dress it up all you like in guff about sovereignty it's about keeping wealth with him and his class.

[Clarets4me]

The EU are a hostile foreign power?

Spain making claims on British territory, French foreign minister calling for a European Empire, European army, not exactly " a hostile foreign power ", but hardly close allies ...

[Imploding Turtle]

So you're telling me that for the past 40 years or so we've been a member of a group to which we are not close allies?

you people are ******* ridiculous.

Also, since when is wanting to have an army evidence that someone isn't a close ally of ours?

[Clarets4me]

They're not fulfilling their International committments to Nato, expecting others to do it for them..

The Germans are funding a Gas pipeline to put money in the Coffers of the Russians whilst expecting the USA, and, to a rather less extent the UK to provide their Defence, notionally against the same foe. Whilst the " 5 Eyes " Security and Intelligence Group are fighting tooth and nail to keep Islamic extremists under watch, the Germans invite over a 1,000,000 largely single males from North Africa, to travel through the EU to their borders, with little or no consultation with their EU ahem... partners !

The Spanish lay claim to British Sovereign territory, with no regard to their territories in Morrocco, make statements regarding Scotland's place in the Union, whilst imprisoning Catalonian politician's for " holding a Referendum " on Independence.The Belgians, Dutch, French and the Spanish are kicking off because they may not enjoy the same access to our fishing grounds, after Brexit. The Greeks and Italians regard tax avoidance as a national pastime, and are corrupt as f**k, whilst the most successful exports from Romania to the U.K. are the Criminal classes.

The French foreign minister is calling for a " New European Empire ", by which he means the leaders should be French, bankrolled by the German cheque-book, and all other Nations should come to heel. Meanwhile, the French have breached European law on spending and budgets, the response of President Juncker was " Well, France is France ! ", with no sanctions, whereas the Italians & Greeks are threatened with all sorts. The German trade surplus breaches EU laws, but no sanctions have been imposed, and nor has the UK seen any financial compensation for the polluting vehicles that have flooded this Island from the Crooks at the VW/Audi group !

[Greenmile]

They're not fulfilling their International committments to Nato, expecting others to do it for them..

The Germans are funding a Gas pipeline to put money in the Coffers of the Russians whilst expecting the USA, and, to a rather less extent the UK to provide their Defence, notionally against the same foe. Whilst the " 5 Eyes " Security and Intelligence Group are fighting tooth and nail to keep Islamic extremists under watch, the Germans invite over a 1,000,000 largely single males from North Africa, to travel through the EU to their borders, with little or no consultation with their EU ahem... partners !

The Spanish lay claim to British Sovereign territory, with no regard to their territories in Morrocco, make statements regarding Scotland's place in the Union, whilst imprisoning Catalonian politician's for " holding a Referendum " on Independence.The Belgians, Dutch, French and the Spanish are kicking off because they may not enjoy the same access to our fishing grounds, after Brexit. The Greeks and Italians regard tax avoidance as a national pastime, and are corrupt as f**k, whilst the most successful exports from Romania to the U.K. are the Criminal classes.

The French foreign minister is calling for a " New European Empire ", by which he means the leaders should be French, bankrolled by the German cheque-book, and all other Nations should come to heel. Meanwhile, the French have breached European law on spending and budgets, the response of President Juncker was " Well, France is France ! ", with no sanctions, whereas the Italians & Greeks are threatened with all sorts. The German trade surplus breaches EU laws, but no sanctions have been imposed, and nor has the UK seen any financial compensation for the polluting vehicles that have flooded this Island from the Crooks at the VW/Audi group !

But remember folks - the leave vote was nothing to do with small-minded xenophobia.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Does this kind of lying not embarrass you?

Does indentifying as a male feminist in 2018 not embarrass you?

[ClaretMoffitt]

So you're telling me that for the past 40 years or so we've been a member of a group to which we are not close allies?

you people are ******* ridiculous.

Also, since when is wanting to have an army evidence that someone isn't a close ally of ours?

Would you class Scotland as close allies? They have been in a close group with us for 100s of years but their hatred for the English is as strong of a hate as I've ever seen.

[Lancasterclaret]

Some completely made up **** facts on this thread. Its a classic of its genre.

Point 1) - We don't have many allies closer to us as the French - that is reality, and that it even has to be explained to anyone after two world wars is appalling - see this

https://twitter.com/FranJWilliams/statu ... 6218649600" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Point 2) - NATO GDP level is 2% - NATO have agreed to raise the spending levels to this, which is line with everyones treaty commitments. Not a complete shock, but Trump is being "economical" with the truth here.

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ne ... ted-states" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Point 3) - This whole paragraph is hilarious. You sober when you wrote this?

The Spanish lay claim to British Sovereign territory, with no regard to their territories in Morrocco, make statements regarding Scotland's place in the Union, whilst imprisoning Catalonian politician's for " holding a Referendum " on Independence.The Belgians, Dutch, French and the Spanish are kicking off because they may not enjoy the same access to our fishing grounds, after Brexit. The Greeks and Italians regard tax avoidance as a national pastime, and are corrupt as f**k, whilst the most successful exports from Romania to the U.K. are the Criminal classes.

Point 4) - Evidence is scant on this one, which will come as a shock to no one.

The French foreign minister is calling for a " New European Empire ", by which he means the leaders should be French, bankrolled by the German cheque-book, and all other Nations should come to heel

I don't know enough about the rest of your claims, but at the very least it won't be as simple as you claim it is. It never is.

[Falcon]

Thanks for your intellectual contribution to the conversation.

Hahaha! Hoist by my own petard.

[AndrewJB]

Yes, that is the story I am talking about Andrew.

I explained this to Lancaster a few months back and he was gracious enough to defer to my knowledge in this area. I disagree with you politically but you don't do the hate stuff so I will give it another go for your benefit:

UK investment companies have managed funds that have a listing in Ireland for many years now (long before the referendum) and this is just another of those funds. Anyone with a UK pension fund will almost certainly have an interest in some of these (thousands of) funds. JRM would NOT be a director of the fund (just the management company). The fund has to have an independent board of directors and they are duty bound to list every risk under the sun - political, financial, currency, investment - pages and pages of backside covering required by the financial authorities. JRM would not be able to stop the independent directors mentioning Brexit as a risk even if he wanted to (and he obviously is not going to be the only person in the country to think the Brexit process presents no risks - he just happens to personally believe the benefits outweigh the risks). It also has nothing to do with tax evasion either but I can't be bothered going into that.

There are very few journalists (including financial journalists) who understand financial stuff so we get none stories like this.

I am not a huge fan of JRM (like his manners though - especially in the face of yobbish opponents) but this story has NOTHING to do with Brexit and there is literally NOTHING in it.

As I have taken the trouble - a brief acknowledgment would be appreciated!

I liked your post as a means of acknowledging you wrote it, but I don't agree that it's a non story. It's one (of very many) company making changes to allow them to cope with the challenges of brexit. The story is just a small part of the body of evidence that it isn't going to be a walk in the park. Rees Mogg himself has said it could take fifty years for the benefits to be reaped. For anyone with money, there will be advantages to the chaos. Things that can be bought up cheaply. The ability to just move elsewhere. The vast majority of people in Britain don't have these options, and with the direction our entire social care system is heading, I cannot imagine him voting for emergency welfare support for people who find themselves in the crap due to brexit.

You can see from his voting record that Jacob Rees Mogg is a tireless class warrior - always voting for things that benefit his class, and against things that benefit anyone else. Even his Christianity is cherry-picked - advocating a ban on abortion while voting to cap benefits to families with more than two children. It's the kind of joyless, inhumane Christianity that I think has denuded the church of followers over the last fifty years. In context of his actions, his politeness is darkly comical.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 86f48e3566" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Imploding Turtle]

Does indentifying as a male feminist in 2018 not embarrass you?

Why would it?

[Clarets4me]

But remember folks - the leave vote was nothing to do with small-minded xenophobia.

Can you point out any factual inaccuracies ? I should be most grateful if you could ... as would the nation's Police forces, who must have imagined the 19,841 Romanian Nationals they arrested in 2016 alone ... just for example..

[Lancasterclaret]

He's absolutely nailed you sadly.

People keep telling me Brexit is about sovereignty and taking back control.

Your post tells me that its all about hating foreigners.

The fact that you so comfortable posting it, and no one is really bringing you to task on it speaks volumes for the state of the country in general and the state of this board in particular.

[Clarets4me]

Some completely made up **** facts on this thread. Its a classic of its genre.

Point 1) - We don't have many allies closer to us as the French - that is reality, and that it even has to be explained to anyone after two world wars is appalling - see this

https://twitter.com/FranJWilliams/statu ... 6218649600" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Point 2) - NATO GDP level is 2% - NATO have agreed to raise the spending levels to this, which is line with everyones treaty commitments. Not a complete shock, but Trump is being "economical" with the truth here.

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ne ... ted-states" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Point 3) - This whole paragraph is hilarious. You sober when you wrote this?



Point 4) - Evidence is scant on this one, which will come as a shock to no one.



I don't know enough about the rest of your claims, but at the very least it won't be as simple as you claim it is. It never is.

It's certainly not about hatred of " Foreigners " or hatred of anyone, Lancs , rather more about protecting our Borders, the " Rule of law " and the ability to elect or change those who seek to rule the Country ...

1) You don't comment on the first paragraph, so given your attempts to debunk the rest of my post, I presume you accept .. The French, technically an " ally " I grant you, but as the eponymous American General once said, " Say what you like about the French, but they're always there when they need you "

2) The NATO 2% GDP ... It was 2006 when NATO members agreed to work towards a 2% level of Defence spending, I think you'll agree that 12 years is time enough to see quite a bit of progress, however World Bank figures for 2017 show Germany still at 1.2%, together with most other European NATO members at 1.5% or less ... The German defence forces are not in good shape ...

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/less-th ... ys-report/

3) I may have gone a bit " Pub Landlord " on this one but it's all essentially based in fact ... A FOI request last year revealed that 19,841 Romanian Nationals were arrested in the UK in 2016 ... add in the following, which also covers problems in Italy ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Greece

4) I think time will tell ... I'm sure you know the German word for Empire ..

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, not for the first time !!

UTC

[Greenmile]

Can you point out any factual inaccuracies ? I should be most grateful if you could ... as would the nation's Police forces, who must have imagined the 19,841 Romanian Nationals they arrested in 2016 alone ... just for example..

I never claimed there were any factual inaccuracies (that doesn't mean there weren't by the way), just that you (and a fair number of other brexiteers) are a small minded xenophobe.

I stand by that claim, based on your words on this thread. You know the Pub Landlord is a satire on little-englanders, don't you?

[aggi]

3) I may have gone a bit " Pub Landlord " on this one but it's all essentially based in fact ... A FOI request last year revealed that 19,841 Romanian Nationals were arrested in the UK in 2016 ..

Depending on where in the country they are this could be about average given the population (it would be for London for instance).

[android]

I liked your post as a means of acknowledging you wrote it, but I don't agree that it's a non story. It's one (of very many) company making changes to allow them to cope with the challenges of brexit. The story is just a small part of the body of evidence that it isn't going to be a walk in the park. Rees Mogg himself has said it could take fifty years for the benefits to be reaped. For anyone with money, there will be advantages to the chaos. Things that can be bought up cheaply. The ability to just move elsewhere. The vast majority of people in Britain don't have these options, and with the direction our entire social care system is heading, I cannot imagine him voting for emergency welfare support for people who find themselves in the crap due to brexit.

You can see from his voting record that Jacob Rees Mogg is a tireless class warrior - always voting for things that benefit his class, and against things that benefit anyone else. Even his Christianity is cherry-picked - advocating a ban on abortion while voting to cap benefits to families with more than two children. It's the kind of joyless, inhumane Christianity that I think has denuded the church of followers over the last fifty years. In context of his actions, his politeness is darkly comical.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 86f48e3566" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the acknowledgment and reply. But you are wrong about JRM as regards Ireland. Maybe I did not explain it very well. It has absolutely nothing to do with making changes to cope with Brexit. Literally nothing. As I said, this is not new, and it has been standard practice, ironically allowed for and encouraged by the EU under their financial passporting rules. Just about every British fund management company will manage funds listed in Luxembourg and/or Ireland and they have done so for years before the referendum. The funds would just be similar to UK investment trusts and unit trusts but designed to appeal to a wider European audience. There are thousands of these funds and they are launched and closed all the time by every British fund management company. All that happened is JRM's company launched one of these funds with an Irish stock exchange listing in the normal course of business and some journalist either did not understand it or wanted to make a story. So it is not part of the body of evidence about Brexit not being a walk in the park because it has absolutely ZERO to do with Brexit. In fact, if there was any story surrounding this, it would be precisely the other way around. If a deal is not done with the EU to allow the financial passporting rules to continue in some form after Brexit then Rees Mogg's firm and other UK investment managers may have to stop managing funds listed on the Irish and Luxembourg stock exchanges ("Rees Mogg flees Ireland!!"). No-one really expects this to happen though.

So, yes, the Rees Mogg flees to Ireland stuff is complete and utter rubbish and an absolute non story.

The rest of your post is opinion, which I might agree with you on (I'm not a Catholic) or agree with JRM (controlling expenditure). For what it is worth, I suspect the voting record apart from the Catholic stuff amounts to little more than supporting government policy since 2010.

[kentonclaret]

A man of many words but, sadly for him, very few letters.

[TonbridgeClaret]

I stand by that claim, based on your words on this thread. You know the Pub Landlord is a satire on little-englanders, don't you?

Does that mean that remainers are Little Europeans, happy with 15% of the world's trading power but unwilling to trade more with the other 85%?

[ClaretMoffitt]

Does that mean that remainers are Little Europeans, happy with 15% of the world's trading power but unwilling to trade more with the other 85%?

In a word yes, although my personal theory is that they are simply racist and do not wish to trade/mix with non-ethno European states.

[Lancasterclaret]

I used to think people like you two were taking the ****.

Now I realise you actually believe what you post.

Tonbridges post is exceptional though, its almost like he doesn't understand that we won't be able to trade like we do around the world using our membership of the EU because the combined UK trade won't be as big as the combined EU trade, so we will be a smaller market, and therefore have less influence.

But hey, if you lot want to keep posting the stuff you come out with, feel free.

[Lancasterclaret]

Good evening UKIP voters!

Your journey into the EDL is now complete!

https://twitter.com/DigbyReturns/status ... 6473845760" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ClaretMoffitt]

Good evening UKIP voters!

Your journey into the EDL is now complete!

https://twitter.com/DigbyReturns/status ... 6473845760" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thats it, becoming a member

[Lancasterclaret]

You might get to meet your hero

[Tall Paul]

Does that mean that remainers are Little Europeans, happy with 15% of the world's trading power but unwilling to trade more with the other 85%?

You realise that we can and do trade with the other 85% while being a member of the EU?

[Greenmile]

thats it, becoming a member

How cute. Moffitt is pretending he’s not already a member of the EDL.