Rafa - sign me players or I am off...

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:03 pm

Dyched wrote:The major problem is this

https://www.transfermarkt.com/newcastle ... verein/762" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There a nothing club. What have they ever done. Oooh so they get big crowds. And taking your shirt off in -38 degrees doesn’t make you passionate

They are a club with history and that is something which you can't take away.
Yes, the fans are quite deluded these days, however, they yearn for the days when, between 1993/4 and 1996/7 they were runners-up twice and finished in the top 6 for 4 seasons running. Even at the start of this century they had 3 consecutive seasons when they finished in the top 5.
Since Ashley took over in May 2007 they have been relegated twice and their highest finish was in 2011/12 when they finished in 5th place under Alan Pardew's management.

Their bggest problem is that the majority of their fan base have not seen much success except for their three journeys in the Champions League and two FA Cup Finals in the past 25 years.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:10 pm

Right_winger wrote:Are you smoking crack? You seriously think Rafa isn’t as good as Dyche?

Tell me again what Rafa has won as a manager and compare it to Dyche.

Tell me who has a better record in the last six years ?

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:22 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:They are a club with history and that is something which you can't take away.
Yes, the fans are quite deluded these days, however, they yearn for the days when, between 1993/4 and 1996/7 they were runners-up twice and finished in the top 6 for 4 seasons running. Even at the start of this century they had 3 consecutive seasons when they finished in the top 5.
Since Ashley took over in May 2007 they have been relegated twice and their highest finish was in 2011/12 when they finished in 5th place under Alan Pardew's management.

Their bggest problem is that the majority of their fan base have not seen much success except for their three journeys in the Champions League and two FA Cup Finals in the past 25 years.

They are a club with history, but that is all it is - history. They want that history repeated but they want it to be bought for them. They don't want to do the hard yards like we have to, they want it on a plate. Asley has kept that club afloat for years but all we hear is how little money he spends and the lack of big signings. What happened to living within your means. They see Mike Ashley's fortune and they want it for themselves. Tossers of the highest order.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:01 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:You forgot to mention:- Expectations far outweighing capabilities without Ashley selling the club or some other major outside investment ---neither seems to be happening in the near future.

They have spent 150m in the last three seasons.

We have spent £100m tops. Thats a 50% bigger transfer budget than we have not to mention wages. Imagine what Dyche could do here with 50% more resources. Frightening.

I wouldnt say expectations are that much higher to be honest. Especially given what they have won in the last 50 years. If he won a league cup he would be a god there.

Ashley is a good chairman too. Dont understand all the flack he gets.

He hired managers they wanted (Keegan, Hughton, Benitez) and even gave Shearer a chance. He fired those they didnt (Allerdyce, Pardew - although kept him when they did like him). But for whatever reason they dont like him.

Allerdyce and Kinnear (their Laws moment) aside the fans have backed every manager pretty much. They are awful at the minute. And Benitez is very negative. But they still love him. They would love Dyche.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:05 pm

joey13 wrote:Tell me who has a better record in the last six years ?

Trophies in last six years

Dyche - Championship

Benitez - Championship, Europa League, Italian Cup, Italian Super cup

Dyche is fantastic. But he would snap your hand off for Benitez record. Either over the last 6 years or over his career!

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:10 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Imagine what Dyche could do here with 50% more resources. Frightening.

Not that much better. An extra £50 million wouldn't improve us much as we capable of finishing mid table anyway with the current side, except perhaps targeting the Europa league a bit more often.

The last few games have shown how good we really are and the extra cash probably wouldn't see much on top of that.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:18 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Trophies in last six years

Dyche - Championship

Benitez - Championship, Europa League, Italian Cup, Italian Super cup

Dyche is fantastic. But he would snap your hand off for Benitez record. Either over the last 6 years or over his career!

So how come Rafa hasn't managed to get Newcastle further up the league with the players he's got?

Aside from last season we never had any relegation worries two seasons ago, yet Newcastle seem to be in a permanent dogfight. Surely they should be doing much better than clubs like Brighton?

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:20 pm

CC are you sure that Newcastle have spent £150m over 3 years ?
I’m struggling to see that on the pitch. Rondon £16m which broke their transfer record. Ritchie £10m... whatever Shelvey cost...

They have sold players too. Would be not surprised if Burnley and Newcastle have similar net spends and wage bills.

Newcastle’s commercial income and gate receipts has got to be £15m to £20m more than ours (at least).

They are a big club who spend little for their size and potential and are very lucky to have Benitez who could easily manage a club with far bigger transfer / wages budgets.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:32 pm

"They have spent 150m in the last three seasons.

We have spent £100m tops. Thats a 50% bigger transfer budget than we have not to mention wages. Imagine what Dyche could do here with 50% more resources. Frightening. ....."

Actual money spent without anything coming in is Newcastle £141 million and Burnley £114 million that is since Rafa took over, hence the last three seasons.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:48 pm

Surprised they have spent that but in relative terms it’s still peanuts especially if you think of net spend as much lower.
Our net spend will defo be lower than them with the money we made on Keane and Gray.
Think wage bills will be similar.

As said Newcastle must be generating more in income than us.

When you look at what the likes of West Ham and Everton have spent and the players that they both go for compared to Newcastle I would say that is much more of a comparison their fans would be making than looking at Burnley.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:55 pm

The net spend since Rafa took over has been in profit by £21.07 million because they offloaded Mitrovic, Sissoko, Andy Townsend, Wijnaldum and Janmaat for decent money.
During this same period Burnley's net spend has been £63.14 million so perhaps Rafa has a point.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:12 pm

Net spend isn't relevant to present performance. If you have low net spending, that may be a sign of the quality of players you used to have; and it may be a sign of the quality of the coaching that made them worth so much. But it's gross spend that reflects, or should reflect, the quality of the squad now.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:22 pm

TVC15 wrote:Think wage bills will be similar.

For wage bills to be similar, Newcastle will have to have cut their wages by £40m or so after they got promoted to the Premier League. It's possible but it would be surprising.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:27 pm

One thing's for certain, Rafa would have you believe that he's keeping a squad full of league two players in the Premier league, which is one of the greatest ever achievements in football!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46671474" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:30 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Trophies in last six years

Dyche - Championship

Benitez - Championship, Europa League, Italian Cup, Italian Super cup

Dyche is fantastic. But he would snap your hand off for Benitez record. Either over the last 6 years or over his career!

Ok then 4 years

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:33 pm

dsr wrote:Net spend isn't relevant to present performance. If you have low net spending, that may be a sign of the quality of players you used to have; and it may be a sign of the quality of the coaching that made them worth so much. But it's gross spend that reflects, or should reflect, the quality of the squad now.

Wages is a far better indicator of squad quality than either net or gross spend.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:36 pm

aggi wrote:For wage bills to be similar, Newcastle will have to have cut their wages by £40m or so after they got promoted to the Premier League. It's possible but it would be surprising.

Reports seem to suggest their last reported wage bill i
was around £110m - which seems staggering when you see what they have on the pitch.
Best played player is Shelvey on £70k a week but seems like only a couple on more than £50k a week.
They might not have cut their wage bill by £40m but guess that given the players they recently sold it could easily be £20m. Our next reported wage bill will be around £75m I reckon so the percentage of salary to turnover could be pretty similar for both of us

Winstonswhite · Post by **Winstonswhite** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:35 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Trophies in last six years

Dyche - Championship

Benitez - Championship, Europa League, Italian Cup, Italian Super cup

Dyche is fantastic. But he would snap your hand off for Benitez record. Either over the last 6 years or over his career!

Come off it you can’t be bragging about winning the Italian Super cup- it’s essentially the charity shield! It’s debatable whether the Italian cup isn’t just a Mickey Mouse competition as the big teams only have to win four games like he did with Napoli.

Look, he took over Mourinhos treble winning Inter and got sacked after leading them to sixth the season after.

Fair do’s he won the Europa with Chelsea but that’s only after he’d got knocked out of the champions league and Di Matteo had won the CL the year before!

So that leaves the Championship which he won, spending 50 million+ in the process with the largest wage bill in the leagues history.

Every single club he’s ever been at he moans about not being given enough money. With the Geordie fans at loggerheads with the chairman too, it’s a match made in heaven.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:01 pm

TVC15 wrote:CC are you sure that Newcastle have spent £150m over 3 years ?
I’m struggling to see that on the pitch. Rondon £16m which broke their transfer record. Ritchie £10m... whatever Shelvey cost...

They have sold players too. Would be not surprised if Burnley and Newcastle have similar net spends and wage bills.

Newcastle’s commercial income and gate receipts has got to be £15m to £20m more than ours (at least).

They are a big club who spend little for their size and potential and are very lucky to have Benitez who could easily manage a club with far bigger transfer / wages budgets.

Im not disagreeing. Benitez is doing good in a role that is probably beneath him!

Accoridng to transfermarket yes they have spent 150m

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:03 pm

TVC15 wrote:Surprised they have spent that but in relative terms it’s still peanuts especially if you think of net spend as much lower.
Our net spend will defo be lower than them with the money we made on Keane and Gray.
Think wage bills will be similar.

As said Newcastle must be generating more in income than us.

When you look at what the likes of West Ham and Everton have spent and the players that they both go for compared to Newcastle I would say that is much more of a comparison their fans would be making than looking at Burnley.

Probably but I am comparing with Burnley as to why Dyche would go from here to there.

Anyone who thinks he wouldnt is crackers. He nearly went to sunderland.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:05 pm

Winstonswhite wrote:Come off it you can’t be bragging about winning the Italian Super cup- it’s essentially the charity shield! It’s debatable whether the Italian cup isn’t just a Mickey Mouse competition as the big teams only have to win four games like he did with Napoli.

Look, he took over Mourinhos treble winning Inter and got sacked after leading them to sixth the season after.

Fair do’s he won the Europa with Chelsea but that’s only after he’d got knocked out of the champions league and Di Matteo had won the CL the year before!

So that leaves the Championship which he won, spending 50 million+ in the process with the largest wage bill in the leagues history.

Every single club he’s ever been at he moans about not being given enough money. With the Geordie fans at loggerheads with the chairman too, it’s a match made in heaven.

I am not disputing Dyche is a great manager. But he himself would be happy with half benitez record.

Its alright dismissing cups. We cant even win a tie against lower league sides most times never mind the whole thing!

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:05 pm

He is used to spending on world stars. Ashley runs the club on a proper business footing, so like Burnley, Newcastle will have to stay in the real world.

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:39 pm

If Dyche went to Newcastle I'd put money on Ashley selling it soon after, new owners coming in and sacking him for a fashionable/big club upgrade. Like at Watford.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:42 pm

Last years Deloitte reports on football clubs just released.
Not had time to read up on them but driving back earlier heard on the radio that Newcastle’s turnover last year was about £200m....that’s staggering in terms of the amount of non TV money they generate.

A lot of this has got to be coming from Ashley’s companies sponsoring and advertising Newcastle. A Newcastle fan rang in and said that most of the adverts / sponsors are Ashleys. The fan also said that the fans all love Rafa and that if he resigns because of a lack of transfer funds that there will be some serious protests which will be far worse than what happened at West Ham.

If the wage bill is still around £110m you have got to wonder what is happening to the rest of the income. No wonder Rafa and fans have had enough. Sounds like some creative accounting between his companies to me rather than genuinely putting money into the club.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:55 pm

£200m without tv money?

Edit nevermind, read it wrong.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:12 pm

TVC15 wrote:Last years Deloitte reports on football clubs just released.
Not had time to read up on them but driving back earlier heard on the radio that Newcastle’s turnover last year was about £200m....that’s staggering in terms of the amount of non TV money they generate.

There's a bit of talk of this on the "football money tree" thread. It was €200m not £200m (they haven't quite reached parity yet!).

They had more TV games than us so a bit more money there and they generate about £35-£40m more than we do in matchday/commercial income.

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:25 pm

The Deloitte report says Newcastle's revenue last year was Euros 201.5 million (£178.5m). Split: 142.7m broadcast revenue, 31.8m "commercial" and 27 million "matchday".
For comparison, WHU are just behind them in this listing on Euros 197.9m total; split 133.8m broadcast, 36.4 commercial and 27.7 matchday
Everton are a couple of places above Newcastle in the listings with total revenue Euros 212.9m split: £160m broadcast, £34m commercial, 18.9 matchday.

It looks like Newcastle are a bit light on "commercial" v the other two. Maybe Ashley underpays for his bit or, more likely, Newcastle's kit/shirt etc sponsorships are due renewal soon at Premier League rates.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:44 pm

LeadBelly wrote:The Deloitte report says Newcastle's revenue last year was Euros 201.5 million (£178.5m). Split: 142.7m broadcast revenue, 31.8m "commercial" and 27 million "matchday".
For comparison, WHU are just behind them in this listing on Euros 197.9m total; split 133.8m broadcast, 36.4 commercial and 27.7 matchday
Everton are a couple of places above Newcastle in the listings with total revenue Euros 212.9m split: £160m broadcast, £34m commercial, 18.9 matchday.

It looks like Newcastle are a bit light on "commercial" v the other two. Maybe Ashley underpays for his bit or, more likely, Newcastle's kit/shirt etc sponsorships are due renewal soon at Premier League rates.

I think the main issue is that Deloitte have probably estimated those figures. Newcastle haven't released their figures for last year yet.

ecc · Post by **ecc** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:31 am

He's got Lukaku but I'm not sure he qualifies as an asset.

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:08 pm

He's won La Liga twice, the champions league, the UEFA cup, the Europa league, a Coppa Italia and an FA cup. On no planet, can you put Sean Dyche in the same league as Rafa Benitez as a manager. I find it unreal that anyone thinks there's a debate to be had.

Valencia
La Liga: 2001–02, 2003–04

UEFA Cup: 2003–04

Liverpool
FA Cup: 2005–06
FA Community Shield: 2006
UEFA Champions League: 2004–05
UEFA Super Cup: 2005

Inter Milan
Supercoppa Italiana: 2010
FIFA Club World Cup: 2010

Chelsea
UEFA Europa League: 2012–13
Napoli

Coppa Italia: 2013–14
Supercoppa Italiana: 2014

Newcastle United
EFL Championship: 2016–17[136]

Individual
La Liga Best Coach: 2002
UEFA Manager of the Year: 2003–04, 2004–05
European Coach of the Year—Alf Ramsey Award: 2005

Sean Dyche:

Football League Championship: 2015–16
Football League Championship runner-up: 2013–14

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:11 pm

willsclarets wrote:He's won La Liga twice, the champions league, the UEFA cup, the Europa league, a Coppa Italia and an FA cup. On no planet, can you put Sean Dyche in the same league as Rafa Benitez as a manager. I find it unreal that anyone thinks there's a debate to be had.

Valencia
La Liga: 2001–02, 2003–04

UEFA Cup: 2003–04

Liverpool
FA Cup: 2005–06
FA Community Shield: 2006
UEFA Champions League: 2004–05
UEFA Super Cup: 2005

Inter Milan
Supercoppa Italiana: 2010
FIFA Club World Cup: 2010

Chelsea
UEFA Europa League: 2012–13
Napoli

Coppa Italia: 2013–14
Supercoppa Italiana: 2014

Newcastle United
EFL Championship: 2016–17[136]

Individual
La Liga Best Coach: 2002
UEFA Manager of the Year: 2003–04, 2004–05
European Coach of the Year—Alf Ramsey Award: 2005

Sean Dyche:

Football League Championship: 2015–16
Football League Championship runner-up: 2013–14

If Rafa is that good why are Newcastle where they are in the league?

Even with our squad we had one of the best home records in the PL two seasons ago and got into Europe last season.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:15 pm

Spijed wrote:If Rafa is that good why are Newcastle where they are in the league?

Even with our squad we had one of the best home records in the PL two seasons ago and got into Europe last season.

Newcastle are where they are in the league only because Rafa is that good !
Ask any Newcastle fan what they think. They have a bang average side and he is doing a great job given the toxic atmosphere surrounding the owner for years now. No way the likes of Lascelles would be signing new contracts if Rafa was not the manager

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:24 pm

I'm not undermining Dyche's achievements, but in any career in any sphere it matters what you've done. Or do you disagree with that? In the 17 seasons prior to Benitez taking over at Valencia, only two teams aside from Barcelona and Real had won La Liga – once by Atletico Madrid in 1996 and once by Deportivo La Coruna in 2000. No team had won successive titles since Athletic in the early 80s. And only Athletico Madrid have won it since Benitez left Valencia in 10+ years. It might not have always had success at the top clubs in Europe since (aside from winning the most acclaimed trophy in domestic football with a relatively average Liverpool side), but he's objectively managed at a higher level than Sean Dyche and he's won more things.

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:39 pm

To put his honours as a manager into perspective, it's comparable to Brian Clough's who's won:

2 x domestic league titles
1 x UEFA super Cup
2 x European Cups
4 x English League Cups

I'm not saying Rafa is as good a manager as he was, what I'm saying is that at the end of the day it matters what you've achieved. It's all that matters. Until Dyche has come remotely close to winning what Benitez has, the comparison is ridiculous.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:39 pm

TVC15 wrote:Newcastle are where they are in the league only because Rafa is that good !
Ask any Newcastle fan what they think. They have a bang average side and he is doing a great job given the toxic atmosphere surrounding the owner for years now. No way the likes of Lascelles would be signing new contracts if Rafa was not the manager

Well how come we've had very little problem up to now staying in the Prem?

You'd think they have league one players!

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:42 pm

Rafa has been in management since 1993, therefore, i would hope that he has had some success in that time, particularly with some of the opportunities he has had.
Consider that Sean Dyche was still playing until the end of the 2006/7 season and did not get involved in managment of a team until June 2011, by which time Benitez had already managed Valencia, where he resigned because they would not splash the cash, and Liverpool where he left by mutual consent. He then managed Inter Milan for 6 months before he left because they would not splash the cash.
All this happened before Sean Dyche had even started managing a team.

Yes, Benitez has done very well, however, comparisons with a manager who has spent 18 years less in the job is fairly pointless, bearing in mind that Benitez has been in management 9 seasons before he won La Liga.

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:44 pm

I couldn't agree more.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:56 pm

Spijed wrote:Well how come we've had very little problem up to now staying in the Prem?

You'd think they have league one players!

Do you mean other than when we were relegated ?!!!

Can I just check are you seriously saying you think Dyche is a better manager then Benitez ?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:00 pm

TVC15 wrote:Do you mean other than when we were relegated ?!!!

Can I just check are you seriously saying you think Dyche is a better manager then Benitez ?

I'm not comparing managers, but they way some go on you'd think it's one of the greatest achievements in football keeping Newcastle in the Prem with their squad of players.

Perhaps Benitez should have been nominated for manager of the year last season as his was a great achievement keeping Newcastle up!

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:04 pm

Who has said anything like that ?
But last year when they finished 10th a few people were saying he should get manager of the year actually - as they were about Dyche.

Not sure why you are arguing he hasn’t done a good job at Newcastle....hardly surprising when you see what he has done in his career. Only surprise is that he has stayed there so long.

Goodclaret · Post by **Goodclaret** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:08 pm

I don't think it's all about winning titles to truly measure achievements. What Dyche did with us last season has to be seen as one of the biggest achievements in the PL, we didn't gain any title for that!?

Rafa clearly has a great track record and has managed at some huge clubs. I'm not sure his squad is as poor (both in quality and cash spent on them) as he's trying to make out though. He clearly wants to put pressure on Ashley to spend which would make his job easier. Would Rafa be able to do what Dyche is doing with our squad? Comparing managers over their career, obviously, Rafa wins but who is the better manager currently? It's difficult to measure.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:12 pm

willsclarets wrote:To put his honours as a manager into perspective, it's comparable to Brian Clough's who's won:

2 x domestic league titles
1 x UEFA super Cup
2 x European Cups
4 x English League Cups

I'm not saying Rafa is as good a manager as he was, what I'm saying is that at the end of the day it matters what you've achieved. It's all that matters. Until Dyche has come remotely close to winning what Benitez has, the comparison is ridiculous.

You do need to take into account other things such as resources, though. In Benitez's last season at Liverpool, they finished 7th - the same position as Burnley last season. But Liverpool sacked Benitez, and Burnley didn't sack Dyche, because the respective boards of directors didn't consider that the two managers had equivalent success.

Benitez did very well at Valencia, that's not in doubt. But since then, apart from inheriting a Liverpool side that was capable of winning the Champions League, winning the League, and rebuilding into one that couldn't finish in the top 6; and taking an Italian Champions League winning side and winning the Italian Cup with them - he hasn't done much.

If you don't like the argument that Dyche is better than Benitez, how about putting it this way round. Who would you rather have managing Burnley? For me, it's Dyche by several country miles.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:24 pm

dsr wrote:You do need to take into account other things such as resources, though. In Benitez's last season at Liverpool, they finished 7th - the same position as Burnley last season. But Liverpool sacked Benitez, and Burnley didn't sack Dyche, because the respective boards of directors didn't consider that the two managers had equivalent success.

Benitez did very well at Valencia, that's not in doubt. But since then, apart from inheriting a Liverpool side that was capable of winning the Champions League, winning the League, and rebuilding into one that couldn't finish in the top 6; and taking an Italian Champions League winning side and winning the Italian Cup with them - he hasn't done much.

If you don't like the argument that Dyche is better than Benitez, how about putting it this way round. Who would you rather have managing Burnley? For me, it's Dyche by several country miles.

He never inherited a team to win the CL. He then built Liverpool to challenging for the title before they were ripped apart.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:31 pm

Dyched wrote:He never inherited a team to win the CL. He then built Liverpool to challenging for the title before they were ripped apart.

He was appointed in 2004 and won the Champions; League in 2005. They can't all have been his players. When managers say they need time to build their own team, they usually mean more than 6 months.

And they didn't win the league. Benitez didn't win the league with Liverpool, and Dyche in the same length of time hasn't won it with Burnley. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they are as good as each other as managers, and the fact that Liverpool finished top 7 in all 6 seasons and Burnley only did it once doesn't mean that Benitez is better than Dyche.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:32 pm

Dsr’s post sounds like :
“what did the Romans ever do for us ?”....apart from -
Build all the roads
Etc
Etc
Etc
Etc
Etc
Etc
Etc

Other than that they just pi-ssed about a bit wearing bedsheets

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:45 pm

dsr wrote:He was appointed in 2004 and won the Champions; League in 2005. They can't all have been his players. When managers say they need time to build their own team, they usually mean more than 6 months.

And they didn't win the league. Benitez didn't win the league with Liverpool, and Dyche in the same length of time hasn't won it with Burnley. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they are as good as each other as managers, and the fact that Liverpool finished top 7 in all 6 seasons and Burnley only did it once doesn't mean that Benitez is better than Dyche.

I never said they won the league. But they were close to doing it. He brought in several fantastic players. Who have gone on to great things.

They were 3-0 down in the CL final against a side fielding Seedorf, Pirlo, Gattuso, Crespo, Maldini, Nesta etc etc. 3-0 down and he brought on a defensive midfielder to completely change it. What would have Dyche done and about 99% of other managers?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:59 pm

TVC15 wrote:Who has said anything like that ?
But last year when they finished 10th a few people were saying he should get manager of the year actually - as they were about Dyche.

Not sure why you are arguing he hasn’t done a good job at Newcastle....hardly surprising when you see what he has done in his career. Only surprise is that he has stayed there so long.

The job he's done at Newcastle is no more impressive than any other manager who keeps a club up with a limited transfer budget.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:17 pm

Spijed wrote:The job he's done at Newcastle is no more impressive than any other manager who keeps a club up with a limited transfer budget.

Who said it was ?
The job he did before Newcastle was pretty impressive though

Winstonswhite · Post by **Winstonswhite** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:26 pm

TVC15 wrote:Who has said anything like that ?
But last year when they finished 10th a few people were saying he should get manager of the year actually - as they were about Dyche.

Not sure why you are arguing he hasn’t done a good job at Newcastle....hardly surprising when you see what he has done in his career. Only surprise is that he has stayed there so long.

You do realise he took over Newcastle in 18th position and they’re now 3 years later in 17th? Hardly the success you’re making out.

rufus lumley · Post by **rufus lumley** » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:56 pm

Has he gone yet?