Embarrassed to be an England fan

[Jakubclaret]

That’s fine, but that doesn’t mean other people have to feel the same way. I’m embarrassed to be an England fan right now, just as I was to be a Burnley fan after the aeroplane incident. Equally I would have felt very proud to be an England fan had we won last night.

Do you not think you are being over sensitive regarding the aeroplane incident? I thought the actual message was wrong it should have said, all lives matter, but no burnley fan should have been embarrassed about that, it happened it was inappropriate but nothing that should have represented the club & the fans as a whole entity.

[Lancasterclaret]

Regarding the actual England team, the tweets from Marcus Rashford, Tyrone MIngs and more have made me really proud to be English today.

[Tribesmen]

Not saying that 2 wrongs make a right but I have been to many, many England away games and I can only recall 2 games where 'God save the Queen' wasn't booed.
Those were in Northern Ireland and Kosovo.

I'm surprised when some people seem surprised because England's opponents national anthem is booed!
It's not a new thing and doesn't happen as much now as it did a few years ago, but it does happen, particularly with certain countries.

I don't recall a big discussion on here when the Scottish fans howled and whistled during our national anthem recently at Wembley? Or possibly there was and I missed it?

I have to say i am shocked that God save the Queen was booed in Belfast .
I have seen first hand the so called English football fans while travelling with Ireland , now a very small % but nasty indeed .

[Lancasterclaret]

Do you not think you are being over sensitive regarding the aeroplane incident? I thought the actual message was wrong it should have said, all lives matter, but no burnley fan should have been embarrassed about that, it happened it was inappropriate but nothing that should have represented the club & the fans as a whole entity.

I don't think I've ever been as embarrassed to be a Burnley fan, but hey, guess it depends on your viewpoint I suppose

[yTib]

Regarding the actual England team, the tweets from Marcus Rashford, Tyrone MIngs and more have made me really proud to be English today.

you can be proud of someone but not embarrassed for them??

*does not compute

[Targetman]

I have to say i am shocked that God save the Queen was booed in Belfast .
I have seen first hand the so called English football fans while travelling with Ireland , now a very small % but nasty indeed .

Read my post again mate, I said it WASN'T booed in Northern Ireland!

[Lancasterclaret]

you can be proud of someone but not embarrassed for them??

*does not compute

Yup

I'm weird like that

[Tribesmen]

Read my post again mate, I said it WASN'T booed in Northern Ireland!

Oppps sorry

[Grumps]

Because I was associated with the people who pulled the stunt by virtue of being a fellow supporter of the same club. The following day during a work team meeting a colleague jokingly opened the meeting by asking if I had been flying a plane the previous night. Equally there have been many times when I’ve gone into work the day after a fantastic result and felt enormous pride in supporting Burnley, despite having nothing to do with that result.

I don’t expect everybody to feel the same way as me, but I wouldn’t just dismiss other people for feeling a sense of shame to be associated with other people’s actions. I’m sure all parents feel pride and embarrassment at their children’s actions despite not necessarily having anything to do with those actions, for example.

Anyone with half a brain would know that the plane stunt was one moronic individual, not supported by the vast majority of burnley fans. The problem lies with those who would think you had anything to do with it, or hold similar views

Of course you can feel pride or embarrassment at the actions of your children, as I would suggest you've had some input into how they live their lives

[Vegas Claret]

I'm sick to death of idiotic mother ******* spoiling stuff for good people.

[Lancasterclaret]

Anyone with half a brain would know that the plane stunt was one moronic individual, not supported by the vast majority of burnley fans. The problem lies with those who would think you had anything to do with it, or hold similar views

Of course you can feel pride or embarrassment at the actions of your children, as I would suggest you've had some input into how they live their lives

Yes, but it was still embarrassing to know those morons support the same football team as me

And they had supporters on here as well, so lets not forget that either eh?

[Newcastleclaret93]

I don't think I've ever been as embarrassed to be a Burnley fan, but hey, guess it depends on your viewpoint I suppose

I have been embarrassed a number of times over the recent years. From the racist abuse one of our players got in a pre season friendly a couple of seasons ago, to the plane incident, to the Andres post on social media and then arguably the most embarrassed I have ever been was the abuse Sterling received a few seasons ago. Which was down to pure racism.

People can deny it all they want but there is a serious problem with Race and football. You can see it nearly every single match day..

[Grumps]

Yes, but it was still embarrassing to know those morons support the same football team as me

And they had supporters on here as well, so lets not forget that either eh?

There will be many burnley fans who do stupid, embarrassing things that you have no control over whatsoever, you Carnt feel embarrassed everytime it's mentioned.

[Rileybobs]

Anyone with half a brain would know that the plane stunt was one moronic individual, not supported by the vast majority of burnley fans. The problem lies with those who would think you had anything to do with it, or hold similar views

Of course you can feel pride or embarrassment at the actions of your children, as I would suggest you've had some input into how they live their lives

Well obviously nobody actually thought that I had anything to do with the plane stunt. I was being mocked for being a Burnley fan due to the idiotic actions of other people. It was obviously lighthearted and said in jest, but I felt embarrassed by the actions of other people. I’ve explained how it’s possible to feel shame or pride by being associated with something, if you don’t feel the same then that’s fine, but you can’t tell me how I feel.

The example about children is valid, because you can still feel pride or embarrassment in their actions that have had nothing to do with how they’ve been raised. Would you be embarrassed if one of your siblings did something utterly shameful that made international news?

[Jakubclaret]

I have been embarrassed a number of times over the recent years. From the racist abuse one of our players got in a pre season friendly a couple of seasons ago, to the plane incident, to the Andres post on social media and then arguably the most embarrassed I have ever been was the abuse Sterling received a few seasons ago. Which was down to pure racism.

People can deny it all they want but there is a serious problem with Race and football. You can see it nearly every single match day..

Who’s been denying it? It’s the extent that’s in dispute, it’s only a very small minority of people who are up to no good, some people with an agenda want to desperately make the problem bigger than it really is.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Who’s been denying it? It’s the extent that’s in dispute, it’s only a very small minority of people who are up to no good, some people with an agenda want to desperately make the problem bigger than it really is.

How can you argue the extent? The abuse is everywhere, I mean just look at the reaction taking the knee got. If that doesn’t highlight the extent of the problem then I am not sure what will.

[JohnDearyMe]

Just to echo Tsar Bomba's comments above, we were having a drink in a seated outdoor area of the Premier Inn next to Wembley Park tube station before the game.

The police were having their work cut out in trying to keep the main road open to traffic outside the station at the bottom end of Wembley Way.
They were hoplessly outnumbered by drunken people, I wont call them fans because they weren't, and it was very difficult for the police to do their job.

The vast majority of these people didn't have tickets and eventually started thinning out as they made their way from the area to watch the game on TV elsewhere.

From mid to late afternoon it was very dangerous, if you valued your health, walking along Wembley Way because of the mass of people and also because numerous morons were throwing bottles and full cans, police bollards, and anything else they could get their hands on up in the air randomly.

The police were doing their utmost to sort things but faced an uphill battle all afternoon.

Was the police presence relatively small in your opinion? Felt bad for anyone who took their young kids to the game

[Taffy on the wing]

On the first and third points I agree 100%.

On the second while I don’t agree, it didn’t get booed anyway.

There were a lot of dick heads about though. Many who definitely don’t care less about football. And there was definitely tension in the air outside the ground.

Inside the ground with the exception of the dickheads that tried breaking in and the confrontation that brought the atmosphere was as good as I’ve seen anywhere. Everyone was vocal, partisan but good natured. There were two seperate Italian blokes sat near us and all were treat well and enjoyed it. During the anthems many actually applauded Italy’s. And at the end of the game in and around the ground there was zero bother that I saw. Certainly nothing out of the ordinary.

There was plenty of booing going on during the Italian national anthem...End of!

[boatshed bill]

What do we define as an England "fan"?
For me it's those prepared to buy a ticket, prepared to travel...
Anyone watching down the pub, or at home like me doesn't qualify.
hence, no need to be embarrassed by something you are not.
Simple innit?

[Newcastleclaret93]

What do we define as an England "fan"?
For me it's those prepared to buy a ticket, prepared to travel...
Anyone watching down the pub, or at home like me doesn't qualify.
hence, no need to be embarrassed by something you are not.
Simple innit?

So do you think there are only 22k Burnley fans?

[RVclaret]

Hasn’t Southgate said it seems most of the online abuse has come from abroad? This is not an excuse for it but it could literally be anyone from anywhere trying to stir things up. Social media is far too accessible for anyone and the sooner they bring in a law to force identification to open accounts the better.

[Jakubclaret]

How can you argue the extent? The abuse is everywhere, I mean just look at the reaction taking the knee got. If that doesn’t highlight the extent of the problem then I am not sure what will.

I’d treat the knee as a separate side issue, some people are very suspicious of BLM & the motives attached, I’ve noticed massive divisions since BLM have become involved in football, football & BLM should be separate in my view, all the racism & abuse needs to be stopped but I’m not sure taking the knee is having the desired effect it’s meant to be having although it seems well intentioned.

[Taffy on the wing]

Anyone with half a brain would know that the plane stunt was one moronic individual, not supported by the vast majority of burnley fans. The problem lies with those who would think you had anything to do with it, or hold similar views

Of course you can feel pride or embarrassment at the actions of your children, as I would suggest you've had some input into how they live their lives

Guilt by association mate!.........I'm in California & people know i'm a Burnley fan. I was made to explain myself several times.
I actually blushed red when it happened on TV......so YES it is possible to be embarrassed by the actions of others.

Perhaps you lack empathy?

[boatshed bill]

So do you think there are only 22k Burnley fans?

Probably less.

you can tell from when we were in the lower leagues.

[jrgbfc]

I think the authorities in this country have got a bit complacent when it comes to policing at football. There's so little trouble these days they just seem to think a few stewards can handle it, so on the odd occasion there is bother they simply can't cope. I was there on Sunday and couldn't believe the lack of police presence on Wembley Way.

[Caballo]

Sadly a reflection of what is an ever increasing minority of rats that think rules are for other people. They are bereft of morality or dignity and are lauded for it by their piers. Shite, the lot of them!

[Targetman]

Was the police presence relatively small in your opinion? Felt bad for anyone who took their young kids to the game

I would say that the police prescence was similar to what I have seen before at big games at Wembley, the problem was the amount of people in the area.

We were talking to a couple of police officers at the turnstiles who told us that official police estimates were that around a quarter of a million people were in the immediate area of the stadium.

We travelled down by train from Manchester, it was rammed mainly by young men travelling to Wembley, we spoke to several lads in our coach and none of them had tickets.
According to Avanti staff all yesterday morning's trains to London were the same.

It was like New Years Eve in the middle of summer around Wembley, people had travelled from all over the country to join the party.

[Vegas Claret]

great response from Marcus Rashford's local community to the vandalism

[Top Claret]

My mates lad with his 3 mates travelled down from Liverpool without tickets and they all got in, he sent his dad a video of themselves inside the stadium.

[JohnDearyMe]

I would say that the police prescence was similar to what I have seen before at big games at Wembley, the problem was the amount of people in the area.

We were talking to a couple of police officers at the turnstiles who told us that official police estimates were that around a quarter of a million people were in the immediate area of the stadium.

We travelled down by train from Manchester, it was rammed mainly by young men travelling to Wembley, we spoke to several lads in our coach and none of them had tickets.
According to Avanti staff all yesterday morning's trains to London were the same.

It was like New Years Eve in the middle of summer around Wembley, people had travelled from all over the country to join the party.

Thanks, frightening stuff. Hope your own day wasn't ruined because of it all.

Maybe it's for the best if we don't get to host the 2030 World Cup?

[dermotdermot]

an embarrassing example of sarcasm?

Your posts were far more succinct when you were 'yesthatironingboard', yTiB. What has happened? Has it anything to do with the passage of time?

[Stayingup]

Why would you be embarrassed by the action of people you don't know?

Because they are English for goodness sake.

[elwaclaret]

Far less rioting than I was expecting after the weird atmosphere last night. It was as in football a crowd inside the stadium I’d ever seen. When did you ever start celebrating a Burnley win after 30minutes?

England’s fans are predominantly from the same clubs whose fans I find particularly distasteful and for that reason, while I want them to win, that we didn’t upset me about as much as losing in our first tie in the League Cup, no more.

[cricketfieldclarets]

There was plenty of booing going on during the Italian national anthem...End of!

There really wasn’t. Certainly not audible in and around where I was. And I have a video of the anthems where the Italian anthem was actually applauded.

Where did you see / hear it?

I actually don’t think booing the anthems that big a deal. T it didn’t happen. Not that I could see or hear and have watched a video back I made as above and didn’t hear any.

[cricketfieldclarets]

I think the authorities in this country have got a bit complacent when it comes to policing at football. There's so little trouble these days they just seem to think a few stewards can handle it, so on the odd occasion there is bother they simply can't cope. I was there on Sunday and couldn't believe the lack of police presence on Wembley Way.

You only had to see how many stewards it took to deal with the pitch invader. Who could have ended up taking a whack for their troubles. A few got sent flying.

Genuine question. And there may be some logic to it. But why do all of the armed police around the pitch when that happens sit back and not get involved?

[KRBFC]

What a sad state of affairs when the England team have reached their first final in 55 years and our players have to come out after the final and address racist abuse for missing a penalty.

Southgate and the players should be supported for doing so well overall, not tore down and sh!t upon at the first possible opportunity. It's the exact same on here, people sat waiting for the England team to fail to bash and spew negative bs opinions. The amount of negative Southgate opinions after the game on here was a disgrace, first final reached in 55 years, WC semi final and NL semi final, what more do you possibly expect? these people clearly don't understand football or dont really like the England national team.

I've definitely been peed off after a football game but I've never felt the need to post directly to a footballer, nevermind racist abuse.

[cricketfieldclarets]

I would say that the police prescence was similar to what I have seen before at big games at Wembley, the problem was the amount of people in the area.

We were talking to a couple of police officers at the turnstiles who told us that official police estimates were that around a quarter of a million people were in the immediate area of the stadium.

We travelled down by train from Manchester, it was rammed mainly by young men travelling to Wembley, we spoke to several lads in our coach and none of them had tickets.
According to Avanti staff all yesterday morning's trains to London were the same.

It was like New Years Eve in the middle of summer around Wembley, people had travelled from all over the country to join the party.

I’d say that could even be an underestimate. Maybe 250k at any one time. Was absolutely rammed. As was the inside of the stadium.

[cricketfieldclarets]

My mates lad with his 3 mates travelled down from Liverpool without tickets and they all got in, he sent his dad a video of themselves inside the stadium.

100% more than 60k in there.

[cricketfieldclarets]

What a sad state of affairs when the England team have reached their first final in 55 years and our players have to come out after the final and address racist abuse for missing a penalty.

Southgate and the players should be supported for doing so well overall, not tore down and sh!t upon at the first possible opportunity. It's the exact same on here, people sat waiting for the England team to fail to bash and spew negative bs opinions. The amount of negative Southgate opinions after the game on here was a disgrace, first final reached in 55 years, WC semi final and NL semi final, what more do you possibly expect? these people clearly don't understand football or dont really like the England national team.

I've definitely been peed off after a football game but I've never felt the need to post directly to a footballer, nevermind racist abuse.

I said elsewhere. You learn more about people in defeat than victory. Some proper bell ends about yesterday. Especially online.

[KRBFC]

I said elsewhere. You learn more about people in defeat than victory. Some proper bell ends about yesterday. Especially online.

It was funny to see the flip floppers on here, sat there all tournament writing nothing but negative bs about Southgate and the team, suddenly they started supporting, after the penalty loss they were back posting how useless Southgate is. Their opinion/support changed non stop, really they were sat waiting for England to fail, they couldn't post anti English crap quicker after the shootout.

[Funkydrummer]

My mates lad with his 3 mates travelled down from Liverpool without tickets and they all got in, he sent his dad a video of themselves inside the stadium.

Hope you regard it as your duty to hand his name to the authorities for an investigation.

[Taffy on the wing]

There really wasn’t. Certainly not audible in and around where I was. And I have a video of the anthems where the Italian anthem was actually applauded.

Where did you see / hear it?

I actually don’t think booing the anthems that big a deal. T it didn’t happen. Not that I could see or hear and have watched a video back I made as above and didn’t hear any.

I watched on ESPN, the booing was loud and the commentators commented on it........as did i on one of these threads during the game.(Elizabeths)
It's classless & not in the spirit of the occasion. It's a Big stadium with lots of speakers, maybe you were under one of them.
The usual Gammons no doubt.

[Taffy on the wing]

It was funny to see the flip floppers on here, sat there all tournament writing nothing but negative bs about Southgate and the team, suddenly they started supporting, after the penalty loss they were back posting how useless Southgate is. Their opinion/support changed non stop, really they were sat waiting for England to fail, they couldn't post anti English crap quicker after the shootout.

Well i've never changed mine!..........He's not fit for the purpose.
The Italians were all over the place for the first 20 minutes, a good manager would recognize that and go for the kill.
Instead he tried to defend for 80 odd minutes.... I was hoping he'd resign today, expect more of the same safety first dross going forward.

[RVclaret]

Well i've never changed mine!..........He's not fit for the purpose.
The Italians were all over the place for the first 20 minutes, a good manager would recognize that and go for the kill.
Instead he tried to defend for 80 odd minutes.... I was hoping he'd resign today, expect more of the same safety first dross going forward.

Southgates achievements put him SECOND behind Sir Alf Ramsey as the most successful English managers. There have been other crops of players in recent times (think with Terry, Ferdinand, Scholes, Rooney, Owen, Lampard, Gerrard, Cole) with arguably greater reputations at a club level. You are missing the point that there has been problems with getting English teams ‘together’, managing egos, managing the horrible media, expectations of fans. Southgate has brought together the nation with the youngest group of players at the entire Euros!

To achieve a semi final and final in his only two major is tournaments an excellent record. Could he have done things different in the final? Yes. Could Guardiola have done things different in the Champs League final? Probably. But let’s not forget we conceded just two goals in the entire tournament, one a worldie free kick and the other a horrible scrappy rebounded corner. And we were a penny kick or two away from winning the thing. Thats tournament football. That’s life.

[Grumps]

Because they are English for goodness sake.

So was Fred West, but I didn't feel embarrassed to be English, or a father, every time he was on the news, or hundreds of other similar atrocities carried out by English people.

Closer to home, I don't feel embarrassed to be a burnley fan every time Alistair Campbell pops up on the TV, and look what he's been accused of.

[Somethingfishy]

The issue is a societal problem as a whole. Sunday night was simply symptomatic of it. There is a larger than it should be element to our society that goes around thinking it can do what it wants and who is going to stop me. It slides into every small situation around us. People parking on yellow lines or just generally inconsiderate parking, goons up and down driving 40/50 in 20 zones on residential streets with exhausts that makes their car sound like it is knackered, the people who panic buy, kids bullying small kids on playgrounds and generally causing anti social behaviour in otherwise quiet areas.....I could go on. These things might seem trivial but if you think about it is everywhere in our modern society. Too many with the me, me me behaviour and the "what the f*ck you going to do about it?" attitude.
A disease borne out of being too soft and moving away from traditional values.
It may sound cliched but it is a lot worse than when i was younger. A more lairy feel to society.
Shame is an outdated concept to some people these days. They don't feel it.
We are descending into a free for all. A race to the bottom.

[Quicknick]

The issue is a societal problem as a whole. Sunday night was simply symptomatic of it. There is a larger than it should be element to our society that goes around thinking it can do what it wants and who is going to stop me. It slides into every small situation around us. People parking on yellow lines or just generally inconsiderate parking, goons up and down driving 40/50 in 20 zones on residential streets with exhausts that makes their car sound like it is knackered, the people who panic buy, kids bullying small kids on playgrounds and generally causing anti social behaviour in otherwise quiet areas.....I could go on. These things might seem trivial but if you think about it is everywhere in our modern society. Too many with the me, me me behaviour and the "what the f*ck you going to do about it?" attitude.
A disease borne out of being too soft and moving away from traditional values.
It may sound cliched but it is a lot worse than when i was younger. A more lairy feel to society.
Shame is an outdated concept to some people these days. They don't feel it.
We are descending into a free for all. A race to the bottom.
[/quo

A RACE TO THE BOTTOM: Good title for a crime novel.

[Grumps]

Well obviously nobody actually thought that I had anything to do with the plane stunt. I was being mocked for being a Burnley fan due to the idiotic actions of other people. It was obviously lighthearted and said in jest, but I felt embarrassed by the actions of other people. I’ve explained how it’s possible to feel shame or pride by being associated with something, if you don’t feel the same then that’s fine, but you can’t tell me how I feel.

The example about children is valid, because you can still feel pride or embarrassment in their actions that have had nothing to do with how they’ve been raised. Would you be embarrassed if one of your siblings did something utterly shameful that made international news?

With regard to children, I would feel some level of responsibility for whatever they did, good or bad, as in someway, big or small, their upbringing will have had some effect on their behaviour.
I couldn't feel the same for someone I have never met, don't know the name of, or had anything to do with their upbringing, and the only link to me is that they are of the same nationality or support the same football team

[RicardoMontalban]

Do you not think you are being over sensitive regarding the aeroplane incident? I thought the actual message was wrong it should have said, all lives matter, but no burnley fan should have been embarrassed about that, it happened it was inappropriate but nothing that should have represented the club & the fans as a whole entity.

Oh come on! You can’t be so obtuse as to think the issue with the plane stunt was a matter of wording. It was clear, with a smidge of lateral thought, what the intention and thought process behind it. That was an embarrassment to our club, through association, in the full glare of the media spotlight. Same for the behaviour of a minority of louts on Sunday. If you’re comfortable that those aren’t your views on those matters, congratulations on attaining a basic level of decency.

[evensteadiereddie]

The issue is a societal problem as a whole. Sunday night was simply symptomatic of it. There is a larger than it should be element to our society that goes around thinking it can do what it wants and who is going to stop me. It slides into every small situation around us. People parking on yellow lines or just generally inconsiderate parking, goons up and down driving 40/50 in 20 zones on residential streets with exhausts that makes their car sound like it is knackered, the people who panic buy, kids bullying small kids on playgrounds and generally causing anti social behaviour in otherwise quiet areas.....I could go on. These things might seem trivial but if you think about it is everywhere in our modern society. Too many with the me, me me behaviour and the "what the f*ck you going to do about it?" attitude.
A disease borne out of being too soft and moving away from traditional values.
It may sound cliched but it is a lot worse than when i was younger. A more lairy feel to society.
Shame is an outdated concept to some people these days. They don't feel it.
We are descending into a free for all. A race to the bottom.

Absolutely bang on, fishy. It doesn't help when our so-called leaders condone - or a little more cleverly fail to oppose - issues such as racism.
I don't rate Mings as a player but his critique of Patel's hypocrisy is spot on. It applies to some on here too, unfortunately.

And, alluding to the OP, I have to say I detest the England supportin', football lovin', "It's Coming Home" bullshit we've had to put up with over the last week or so. Even more morons have been attracted with the massive over-reaction to the shootout failure inevitable.