What changed?

[ClaretTony]

We have been a million miles away from the team we were last season, despite adding a couple of strong players.

One thing that has changed in the contractual state of the Burnley manager. Prior to September 2021, Sean was on a 1 year rolling deal. In September he signed a 4 year long term deal. Does anyone think this could affect his and the teams mentality.

On a one year deal he is incentivised to do well every season in the hope of attracting a bigger club or a new lucrative deal.

On a four year deal is he incentivised to do poorly so he is sacked and gets a 4 year pay-off at 100k per week?

Which couple of strong players did we add?

And Sean Dyche hasn't been on a rolling contract since January 2018 when he signed a four and a half year deal.

[Quickenthetempo]

Apologies Quicken, I struggle to care that much but if it bothers you I will have to try much harder.

Thank you

[bodge]

What's changed this season is we are conceding far more goals from our left hand side.

It started with the first game against Brighton, cut backs into the 12 to 20 yard range with on rushing midfield players coming in to score.

I don't particularly think it is because of a weakness with Taylor, it is more that our left central and left side midfielders have let players run off the back of them to many times. Dyche alluded to it yesterday post match. It was rinse and repeat yesterday.

Teams have identified this, Brentford tried at their gaff by hitting long to Mbuemo all afternoon, though it didn't work on that occasion.

It could be compounded by our back line drifting a few yards too deep once the opposition winger/midfield player hits the bye line.

[warksclaret]

But the point is if even if those teams above us are refreshing their squads then some of them will still get relegated in the not too distant future, simply due to the weight of numbers. We can't stay in the Prem for ever.

Of course they will-thats the challenge of the PL. In our case we have been stagnant in recruitment, selection, tactics, coaching. Had we been progressive we might be higher up the League. I dont care if sides that refresh squads can also go down. You just have to be smarter than those around you-just look at Palace

[Jakubclaret]

Of course they will-thats the challenge of the PL. In our case we have been stagnant in recruitment, selection, tactics, coaching. Had we been progressive we might be higher up the League. I dont care if sides that refresh squads can also go down. You just have to be smarter than those around you-just look at Palace

I don’t think their additions cost that much eduarde aside most were well within our budget & grasp if identified & approached & would have easily represented survival even a odd 1 or 2. You don’t have to spend millions upon millions to progress like some posters seem to be claiming but you do need to be smart & spot bargains quicker than them around you.

[ClaretPete001]

I don’t think their additions cost that much eduarde aside most were well within our budget & grasp if identified & approached & would have easily represented survival even a odd 1 or 2. You don’t have to spend millions upon millions to progress like some posters seem to be claiming but you do need to be smart & spot bargains quicker than them around you.

In the last 5 seasons we have spent £22 million and Palace have spent nearly £90 million. If we had spent the same as Palace you could only reasonably conclude Sean Dyche would not be in this situation.

[Chester Perry]

In the last 5 seasons we have spent £22 million and Palace have spent nearly £90 million. If we had spent the same as Palace you could only reasonably conclude Sean Dyche would not be in this situation.

They also sold a right back for £50m, from their youth system - who now struggles for game time and had a new investor buy £87.5m of new shares last summer which put money into the club not the pockets of the existing shareholders, they had nearly £60m of debt at that point -it also could be seen as a devaluation of the existing shares as those new ones represent 40% of the total shareholding.

[ClaretTony]

They also sold a right back for £50m, from their youth system - who now struggles for game time and had a new investor buy £87.5m of new shares last summer which put money into the club not the pockets of the existing shareholders, they had nearly £60m of debt at that point -it also could be seen as a devaluation of the existing shares as those new ones represent 40% of the total shareholding.

An investor that actually paid for the shares too

[KRBFC]

What's changed this season is we are conceding far more goals from our left hand side.

It started with the first game against Brighton, cut backs into the 12 to 20 yard range with on rushing midfield players coming in to score.

I don't particularly think it is because of a weakness with Taylor, it is more that our left central and left side midfielders have let players run off the back of them to many times. Dyche alluded to it yesterday post match. It was rinse and repeat yesterday.

Teams have identified this, Brentford tried at their gaff by hitting long to Mbuemo all afternoon, though it didn't work on that occasion.

It could be compounded by our back line drifting a few yards too deep once the opposition winger/midfield player hits the bye line.

Raphina roasted Taylor and sat him on his arse for their late equaliser at the Turf too. Just absolutely leaking goals down that side all season long and Taylor has been clearly targeted as the weak link, most fans (including myself) like Taylor too, his career has regressed badly though, I thought 2 years ago he would be close to the England squad, he's a million miles away on current form.

[Jakubclaret]

In the last 5 seasons we have spent £22 million and Palace have spent nearly £90 million. If we had spent the same as Palace you could only reasonably conclude Sean Dyche would not be in this situation.

Players have been sold & left as well, it’s not all about money it’s what you actually spend money on that can make the difference, it’s been our policy for a long while to have a ever continuation of old players coming to the club or even extending old upon old apart from a odd 1 or 2, everybody seems to be late 20s or early 30s with no resale & niggling injuries & fatigued for the task of regular football as its showing more now, SD has never kept the blend healthy in terms of age once upon a time we could get away with it but things haven’t been renewed or freshened up often enough.

[KRBFC]

The energy levels of the side is a big issue, we used to run more than most, now we're lazy. We did so well for 45 minutes, pressing with intensity against Chelsea, 2nd half there was zero pressure on the ball at all (like Yesterday).

The first 3 Chelsea goals, ALL came down our left hand side. The 4th another gift from Tarkowski.

[KRBFC]

The recruitment has been god awful under Dyche for quite some time, why are we spending so much on a 3rd choice central defender (Gibson/Collins) and totally neglecting central midfield? We needed a right hand side player in the summer with only Gudmundsson there, so what does Dyche do? brings back Lennon who wasn't good enough the first time. Strange strange recruitment.

[Tricky Trevor]

The defence is pretty much as was in terms of standards.
Their is very little creativity from midfield. People have forgotten how dire performances were before McNeil gave us a massive lift. Now he, for whatever reason, has gone backwards there is nothing.
Wood was awful this season, Barnes and Vydra were injured and JRod isn’t the player he was.
The signings of Cornet and Weghorst could prove useful in future but are not in our current situation.
At least with the signings of Hennessy, Roberts and Collins we are preparing should we be relegated but I’m not giving up on them yet.

[Shaggy]

We just havent evolved. Our team/squad is stuck in time. The recruitment from SD has been very poor with money wasted on has beens, renewing old pros contracts. The coaching levels seem really poor since Loughlans departure and Stones promotion. Our set up and play havent changed, we are plug and play tactics for every game even down to the poor use of subs. This demise has been forseen by some people for a long time, we should have acted the season we qualified for Europe. We didnt and havent ever since.

The only silver lining is the hope that SD and his backroom team are cleared out come the summer and we bring someone progressive in.

[aclaretinstevenage]

Which couple of strong players did we add?

And Sean Dyche hasn't been on a rolling contract since January 2018 when he signed a four and a half year deal.

So TC! If I read that correctly Dyche's contract is up in the summer?

If that's the case there really could be a major upheaval at BFC, Dyche could leave, half a dozen or so players will probably go and we could be in the doo doo looking for a manager and a team!

[ClaretTony]

So TC! If I read that correctly Dyche's contract is up in the summer?

If that's the case there really could be a major upheaval at BFC, Dyche could leave, half a dozen or so players will probably go and we could be in the doo doo looking for a manager and a team!

Not up at all. He signed the four year deal to end of this season (confirmed in Jan 2018) but last summer signed a new four year deal taking him to end of 2024/25 season.

https://www.uptheclarets.com/dyche-comm ... until-2025

[Vegas Claret]

It is bound to play on your mind if you don't know how much you will be earning or for how long, too many players out of contract in the summer has been a huge mistake.

[aclaretinstevenage]

Not up at all. He signed the four year deal to end of this season (confirmed in Jan 2018) but last summer signed a new four year deal taking him to end of 2024/25 season.

https://www.uptheclarets.com/dyche-comm ... until-2025

OK Thanks for clearing that up TC.

[ClaretPete001]

Players have been sold & left as well, it’s not all about money it’s what you actually spend money on that can make the difference, it’s been our policy for a long while to have a ever continuation of old players coming to the club or even extending old upon old apart from a odd 1 or 2, everybody seems to be late 20s or early 30s with no resale & niggling injuries & fatigued for the task of regular football as its showing more now, SD has never kept the blend healthy in terms of age once upon a time we could get away with it but things haven’t been renewed or freshened up often enough.

I think it's only fair to point out Palace have spent four times more than we have in the last five seasons equating to £70 million.

And that is net spend.

Only Southampton have managed to have a reasonable net spend after a number of years in the PL.

The scenario you outline simply doesn't happen.....

[Jakubclaret]

I think it's only fair to point out Palace have spent four times more than we have in the last five seasons equating to £70 million.

And that is net spend.

Only Southampton have managed to have a reasonable net spend after a number of years in the PL.

The scenario you outline simply doesn't happen.....

That’s true but have we sold a right back for £50 million can we not deduct that from palaces overall spend. Palace have spent & also sold & moved sakho & wickham & dann & Meyer on & probably a few more that haven’t appeared at the top of the head, without thinking about money like to like & comparing the clubs, palace currently are managed properly & probably have had more investment but the acquisitions & the approach will reap more than signing journeymen. We aren’t properly managed in any shape or form top & bottom.

[jojomk1]

In the last 5 seasons we have spent £22 million and Palace have spent nearly £90 million. If we had spent the same as Palace you could only reasonably conclude Sean Dyche would not be in this situation.

And Everton have spent even more !!

Poor managers build/evolve poor teams - it's not rocket science

As said on another thread, some brain boxes think you only need the money

[Chester Perry]

And Everton have spent even more !!

Poor managers build/evolve poor teams - it's not rocket science

As said on another thread, some brain boxes think you only need the money

poor managers are not just on the football side

read this from theesk - huge Everton fan - on their latest set of accounts and the waste that poor management of the club has generated

https://theesk.org/2022/04/02/a-deeper- ... id-impact/

[ClaretPete001]

Palace's spend has been £159 million and they have recouped £71 million. Burnley's has been £125 million and have recouped £102 million.

To all intents and purposes Burnley have conducted much better business than Palace and the £50 million right back has saved them from a much worse financial situation.

[Jakubclaret]

Palace's spend has been £159 million and they have recouped £71 million. Burnley's has been £125 million and have recouped £102 million.

To all intents and purposes Burnley have conducted much better business than Palace and the £50 million right back has saved them from a much worse financial situation.

That’s all good & well the savings will pay themselves back in the championship then the debate started with palaces rebuild & the like of Anderson & guihi & olise & hughes not going back further than that, the players listed would have probably cost 8 mill individually I think Anderson cost more, what was left over from Newcastles money would have signed 2 at that price not available then but other players were when the money was there.

[jedi_master]

The one thing that hasn’t changed which seriously needed to is the centre of midfield.

I’m utterly convinced we’d be outside the relegation zone if this area had been sufficiently improved upon with two new players over the course of the last 18 months.

[ClaretPete001]

And Everton have spent even more !!

Poor managers build/evolve poor teams - it's not rocket science

As said on another thread, some brain boxes think you only need the money

Everton have had several managers including two regarded as amongst the best in the world.

Everton's problem has not been poor managers but chaotic off the pitch management.

Give me a list of clubs that have had 6 season's in the Premier League on Burnley's budget? That's all you have to do as opposed to giving examples that completely contradict your point.

[tiger76]

The one thing that hasn’t changed which seriously needed to is the centre of midfield.

I’m utterly convinced we’d be outside the relegation zone if this area had been sufficiently improved upon with two new players over the course of the last 18 months.

Precisely! and yet seemingly we weren't in the market for a CM in the past few windows, or if we were deals haven't came up trumps.

What's bizarre is that everybody can see we desperately need freshening up in the centre of the park, yet the club or manager don't appear to consider this a high priority.

And if we do drop this lack of recruitment in the engine room will one of, if not the main reason why.

Even someone in on loan would have been better than nothing, but we can't even stretch to that after 6 seasons in the PL.

[ClaretPete001]

poor managers are not just on the football side

read this from theesk - huge Everton fan - on their latest set of accounts and the waste that poor management of the club has generated

https://theesk.org/2022/04/02/a-deeper- ... id-impact/

It also shows how much profit we generated in the first couple of years after we returned to the Premiership and what has happened to profits as we became an established Premiership side.

[Chester Perry]

It also shows how much profit we generated in the first couple of years after we returned to the Premiership and what has happened to profits as we became an established Premiership side.

The wage bill explains a huge part of that for us - add in amortisation and lack of significant profit from player sales in the past 4 years and no significant revenue growth from other channels and we arrived in the situation we have seen played out.

[ClaretPete001]

Precisely! and yet seemingly we weren't in the market for a CM in the past few windows, or if we were deals haven't came up trumps.

What's bizarre is that everybody can see we desperately need freshening up in the centre of the park, yet the club or manager don't appear to consider this a high priority.

And if we do drop this lack of recruitment in the engine room will one of, if not the main reason why.

Even someone in on loan would have been better than nothing, but we can't even stretch to that after 6 seasons in the PL.

There has perhaps been a breakdown of trust at the club. We've only spent £4 million in the last 2 years. If as a manager you lose faith in those above you to spend then you are more likely to get conservative and try and keep hold of the players you have got.

As big an issue is having a second centre forward that can play with his back to the oppositions goal and win possession giving the midfielders a break and retaining possession. It's essential if you have less than 40 per cent of the play because otherwise it's one way traffic.

Ashley Barnes is a genius at winning possession, buying free kicks and getting the ball up the pitch.

[CrosspoolClarets]

What’s changed?

Defending down our left side bas been mentioned. Pieters must return due to that.

I’d also add: zero goals for us in the last 10 minutes of games, 18% of goals conceded are in the last 10 minutes. Not like us. More generally, 40 goals conceded is a big reason why we have drawn 12 and won only 3. That’s not like us either.

So it’s a bit of the attack to blame, and a lot of the defence. That’s what has changed.

[ClaretPete001]

The wage bill explains a huge part of that for us - add in amortisation and lack of significant profit from player sales in the past 4 years and no significant revenue growth from other channels and we arrived in the situation we have seen played out.

Yes - sad isn't it. I tend to think we are only 2 or 3 players short of a competitive squad.

Everyone has their own opinion but I think that we could have found £20 or so million to invest, which may have done the trick.

[Jakubclaret]

From £25 mill to £12 mill you’ve got £13 mill difference there so I’m not understanding the necessity to find a clear £20 mill on that basis £7 mill needs to be spent to get to the £20 mill.

[ClaretPete001]

From £25 mill to £12 mill you’ve got £13 mill difference there so I’m not understanding the necessity to find a clear £20 mill on that basis £7 mill needs to be spent to get to the £20 mill.

Not sure of your point tbh I was just pondering how much a couple of extra players would have cost and whether it would have turned the situation around.

Unless you thought I meant £20 million including the £12 million but I didn't - it was more a h'aporth of tar comment.

[RVclaret]

There has perhaps been a breakdown of trust at the club. We've only spent £4 million in the last 2 years. If as a manager you lose faith in those above you to spend then you are more likely to get conservative and try and keep hold of the players you have got.

As big an issue is having a second centre forward that can play with his back to the oppositions goal and win possession giving the midfielders a break and retaining possession. It's essential if you have less than 40 per cent of the play because otherwise it's one way traffic.

Ashley Barnes is a genius at winning possession, buying free kicks and getting the ball up the pitch.

You are talking about net spend aren’t you? A large chunk of that is £25m from Wood in the last window and they also thought a deal for Orsic was completed. We’ve spent a fair bit more than that, almost £40m, in the past 2 windows. Orsic would have taken it to nearly 50. Without the Wood sale, which was unexpected, assuming no further incomings in Jan, the net spend would have been circa £12-15m.

Agree with the second point, Barnes used to be very good at that, sadly has lost his ability to do it due to injuries / age / referees clocking on.

[Dy1geo]

The wage bill explains a huge part of that for us - add in amortisation and lack of significant profit from player sales in the past 4 years and no significant revenue growth from other channels and we arrived in the situation we have seen played out.

Our wage bill according to this article https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... 371891.amp

Is £33.8 million and is the 5th lowest in the Premier League.
We do however pay large bonuses for staying up.

What we stopped doing was selling players, we sold Andre and Keane to name but 2 which brought in over £50million. Instead to stay in this league we went down the path of keeping/recruiting established players to keep us up but with no sell on value.

A club our size unfortunately needs to sell players at there optimum value, yes I would like to build a team around them but I am realistic. In the last few years I have seen articles stating that teams were interested in Tarks for £30mil + and McNeil for £25 mil +. If we had have cashed in it would be up to the recruitment team to find more gems. Now we will get nowt for Tarks and McNeills value has reduced. It will be interesting if Brentford cash in on Toney.

A final thing that has changed is Dyche’s recent reluctance to pursue the loan market, we would never have got the revenue for Keane if he hadn’t been her on loan.

[KRBFC]

Everton have had several managers including two regarded as amongst the best in the world.

Everton's problem has not been poor managers but chaotic off the pitch management.

Give me a list of clubs that have had 6 season's in the Premier League on Burnley's budget? That's all you have to do as opposed to giving examples that completely contradict your point.

What does this have to do with the price of cheese? It's pretty clear the reason we're so **** is because of poor management and poor recruitment.

[ClaretPete001]

You are talking about net spend aren’t you? A large chunk of that is £25m from Wood in the last window and they also thought a deal for Orsic was completed. We’ve spent a fair bit more than that, almost £40m, in the past 2 windows. Orsic would have taken it to nearly 50. Without the Wood sale, which was unexpected, assuming no further incomings in Jan, the net spend would have been circa £12-15m.

Agree with the second point, Barnes used to be very good at that, sadly has lost his ability to do it due to injuries / age / referees clocking on.

Yes, net spend.

No one knows the whole truth of these things but Alan Pace has been quoted as saying that there wasn't an original intention to spend in January: we bought 3 players and sold 2. So, my guess is the original budget was circa £20 million. And I think that is about the minimum VSL/ALK could have spent given that they had just bought the club.

Last year, we actually spent less than a million and gained 2 million from a loan fee (if you can believe what you read).

So, if you take the £4 million we spent this year and take off the £1 million we accrued last year our net spend has been £3 million over two seasons.

The debate was originally about what has changed and the reality is that we haven't spent enough to replace an ageing squad.

Aside from ifs, buts, maybes and speculation 3 million over 2 seasons is not enough to sustain a Premiership squad that has not had significant investment (without outgoings) since 2016/2017.

[ClaretPete001]

What does this have to do with the price of cheese? It's pretty clear the reason we're so **** is because of poor management and poor recruitment.

I responded to a point made about Everton. I can't control the points people make on the forum.

[ClaretPete001]

Our wage bill according to this article https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... 371891.amp

Is £33.8 million and is the 5th lowest in the Premier League.
We do however pay large bonuses for staying up.

What we stopped doing was selling players, we sold Andre and Keane to name but 2 which brought in over £50million. Instead to stay in this league we went down the path of keeping/recruiting established players to keep us up but with no sell on value.

A club our size unfortunately needs to sell players at there optimum value, yes I would like to build a team around them but I am realistic. In the last few years I have seen articles stating that teams were interested in Tarks for £30mil + and McNeil for £25 mil +. If we had have cashed in it would be up to the recruitment team to find more gems. Now we will get nowt for Tarks and McNeills value has reduced. It will be interesting if Brentford cash in on Toney.

A final thing that has changed is Dyche’s recent reluctance to pursue the loan market, we would never have got the revenue for Keane if he hadn’t been her on loan.

Our total wage bill is £94 million so I'm not sure what is happening to the other £60 million. The figures in the article don't make sense.

Sean Dyche's side are currently spending £33.8m on player wages - and the cash is being evenly split throughout the squad.

Burnley are spending £2.1m on the goalkeepers, £13m on the defenders, £38.8m on the midfielders and £9.9m on the strikers.

[RVclaret]

Yes, net spend.

No one knows the whole truth of these things but Alan Pace has been quoted as saying that there wasn't an original intention to spend in January: we bought 3 players and sold 2. So, my guess is the original budget was circa £20 million. And I think that is about the minimum VSL/ALK could have spent given that they had just bought the club.

Last year, we actually spent less than a million and gained 2 million from a loan fee (if you can believe what you read).

So, if you take the £4 million we spent this year and take off the £1 million we accrued last year our net spend has been £3 million over two seasons.

The debate was originally about what has changed and the reality is that we haven't spent enough to replace an ageing squad.

Aside from ifs, buts, maybes and speculation 3 million over 2 seasons is not enough to sustain a Premiership squad that has not had significant investment (without outgoings) since 2016/2017.

So let’s just say West Ham sell Declan Rice for £150m this summer, they then sign 5 high quality players for £153m, making their net spend £3m (same as what you are suggesting here) that would be considered ‘not significant investment’? Would you label them as having spent £3m? Like I said, the ‘net spend’ would be have closer to £15m had the agreed deal for Orsic gone through like they were expecting until the 11th hour. Brentford had their first net spend deficit in around 4 seasons this season, means they’ve done great business along the way.

[Jakubclaret]

Not sure of your point tbh I was just pondering how much a couple of extra players would have cost and whether it would have turned the situation around.

Unless you thought I meant £20 million including the £12 million but I didn't - it was more a h'aporth of tar comment.

I agree, a lot of people were under the impression the full amount of CW fee would have gone on transfers to enable us to have a go not to seemingly keep the money, it’s ok some people singing from the rooftops we got a good price but if it translates into not improving the team it matters very little.

[KRBFC]

I responded to a point made about Everton. I can't control the points people make on the forum.

The question of the topic is what has changed with us and why are we suddenly so shite, nothing to do with how many clubs have stayed in the PL for 6 years.

[Spijed]

The question of the topic is what has changed with us and why are we suddenly so shite, nothing to do with how many clubs have stayed in the PL for 6 years.

Or perhaps there should be a more realistic view that it's simply impossible for a small club to remain in the Prem for as long as we have without an eventual drop in quality.

I think it speaks volumes that no teams of a comparable size manage to last more than a few seasons at a time in the Prem without being relegated.

Even Bournemouth went down and they had a bit more of a safety net than us.

[KRBFC]

Or perhaps there should be a more realistic view that it's simply impossible for a small club to remain in the Prem for as long as we have without an eventual drop in quality.

I think it speaks volumes that no teams of a comparable size manage to last more than a few seasons at a time in the Prem without being relegated.

Even Bournemouth went down and they had a bit more of a safety net than us.

What are you talking about small club? your lack of football knowledge is incredible.

[Spijed]

What are you talking about small club? your lack of football knowledge is incredible.

Are we no longer a small club

[KRBFC]

Are we no longer a small club

When were we ever a small club? a **** team isn't a small club. We SHOULD be in the top division of English football by divine right based on number of points accumulated in the history of English football. We have played almost 3x as many top flight games as Crystal Palace.



Every time you comment on football, you go from bad take to bad take. You can stop decline, it doesn't matter how many arses you have on seats, trophies won previously or anything else that determines size of club.

[ClaretPete001]

So let’s just say West Ham sell Declan Rice for £150m this summer, they then sign 5 high quality players for £153m, making their net spend £3m (same as what you are suggesting here) that would be considered ‘not significant investment’? Would you label them as having spent £3m? Like I said, the ‘net spend’ would be have closer to £15m had the agreed deal for Orsic gone through like they were expecting until the 11th hour. Brentford had their first net spend deficit in around 4 seasons this season, means they’ve done great business along the way.

The Orsic deal is ifs, buts and maybes. I don't think anyway would recognise the analogy of selling a Declan RIce for a £150 million and buying £150 million quid's worth of quality players as relating to Burnley. Brentford have spent more than we have in the last 3 seasons and I highly doubt they will be in the Premier League in 6 seasons time so I don't think they are a useful example.

There are no managers that can live on a budget like ours and buy and sell their way to surviving in the Premier League for an extended period. It just doesn't happen. Palace has been bailed out with huge investment and selling an academy player for £50 million. Other than that not a lot. Watford and Norwich are going down.

Brighton are the only other club similar to us and they have spent very big.

The question is what happened and the answer is that we haven't spent enough to sustain a Premier League place. Yes, there is an argument we could have sold more players at the top of their value and bought nuggets at the bottom but no manager has managed to do that for 6 seasons.

What happens is that in the end the Premiership catches up with you. If you think Sean Dyche is the issue then so be it but I don't think anyone else could have or has done what he has managed to achieve. It's all about opinions.

[KRBFC]

The Orsic deal is ifs, buts and maybes. I don't think anyway would recognise the analogy of selling a Declan RIce for a £150 million and buying £150 million quid's worth of quality players as relating to Burnley. Brentford have spent more than we have in the last 3 seasons and I highly doubt they will be in the Premier League in 6 seasons time so I don't think they are a useful example.

There are no managers that can live on a budget like ours and buy and sell their way to surviving in the Premier League for an extended period. It just doesn't happen. Palace has been bailed out with huge investment and selling an academy player for £50 million. Other than that not a lot. Watford and Norwich are going down.

Brighton are the only other club similar to us and they have spent very big.

The question is what happened and the answer is that we haven't spent enough to sustain a Premier League place. Yes, there is an argument we could have sold more players at the top of their value and bought nuggets at the bottom but no manager has managed to do that for 6 seasons.

What happens is that in the end the Premiership catches up with you. If you think Sean Dyche is the issue then so be it but I don't think anyone else could have or has done what he has managed to achieve. It's all about opinions.

Who do you think signed these players.....

[Spijed]

When were we ever a small club? a **** team isn't a small club. We SHOULD be in the top division of English football by divine right based on number of points accumulated in the history of English football. We have played almost 3x as many top flight games as Crystal Palace.



Every time you comment on football, you go from bad take to bad take. You can stop decline, it doesn't matter how many arses you have on seats, trophies won previously or anything else that determines size of club.

Well according to this list there are nine clubs that are more deserving of being in the top flight than us if you are using Crystal Palace as a comparison:
https://www.myfootballfacts.com/england ... op-flight/