Weghorst miss

[jedi_master]

It’s not utterly irrelevant. He’s proven to be a consistent goalscorer in a top 5 league.

Are we playing to his strengths? Not remotely.

I AM judging him on what he is producing here, and taking into account the backdrop of a relegation scrap, a side low on confidence playing god awful football, it’s not remotely surprising he is finding it tough.

Out of interest, what were you expecting him to do, bearing in mind just how poor we are in possession?

It’s irrelevant to me, in much the same way I would judge Ronaldo on what he does for Burnley rather than what he did in Madrid etc, how long do you give him saying “Yeah but, have you seen his stats in the Bundesliga?”.

He has had some really good moments (I thought he was superb at Brighton and said as much on here, thinking we’d signed a real player) but it’s not been often enough and has tailed off to the point he has lost his place in the side. I don’t know what I expected, I had never seen him play. My guess was that he was a target man as he was 6’6, but he’s really poor in the air. My suspicion is that we signed him partly because of his height and because of Dyche’s ‘industrial’ style of football - thinking he’d fit in on that basis (remember, we were even being linked with Carroll at that time).

In a certain team he would look a lot better than he does, I’ve no doubt of that, but he’s an absolute fish out of water in this side. I think he was a bad signing as he doesn’t suit our style of play, but I’m not convinced he’s good enough to justify a total alteration to our style for to specifically accommodate.

[Bin Ont Turf]

I thought to make a joke about it being 9.3 but even that is akin to snorting coke off a police dogs truncheon.

What were we talking about?

Weghorst's missus I think.

That or balloons. Helium filled Claret and Blue balloons floating in a sea of Dutch despair.

[distortiondave]

Helium filled Claret and Blue balloons floating in a sea of Dutch despair.

Ooo va vu.

That's quite poetic. I'm gonna get that tattooed on someone I don't know without their knowledge or consent.

[TsarBomba]

It’s irrelevant to me, in much the same way I would judge Ronaldo on what he does for Burnley rather than what he did in Madrid etc, how long do you give him saying “Yeah but, have you seen his stats in the Bundesliga?”.

He has had some really good moments (I thought he was superb at Brighton and said as much on here, thinking we’d signed a real player) but it’s not been often enough and has tailed off to the point he has lost his place in the side. I don’t know what I expected, I had never seen him play. My guess was that he was a target man as he was 6’6, but he’s really poor in the air. My suspicion is that we signed him partly because of his height and because of Dyche’s ‘industrial’ style of football - thinking he’d fit in on that basis (remember, we were even being linked with Carroll at that time).

In a certain team he would look a lot better than he does, I’ve no doubt of that, but he’s an absolute fish out of water in this side. I think he was a bad signing as he doesn’t suit our style of play, but I’m not convinced he’s good enough to justify a total alteration to our style for to specifically accommodate.

So he’s not useless then, he just doesn’t fit our style of play?

That I would agree with.

Surely we should be looking to evolve to fit in Wout?

What we’re currently offering now has been getting us relegated for the past two seasons. A league low 38% possession is abysmal.

Otherwise we may as well have just signed Akinfenwa instead.

[Bin Ont Turf]

Ooo va vu.

That's quite poetic. I'm gonna get that tattooed on someone I don't know without their knowledge or consent.

If you can get it tattooed on his Littlehampton then it's not really a Littlehampton, it's more like a Tarky raking pass.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Not read the above. A chance but stopped through a great block. Get over it.

[jedi_master]

So he’s not useless then, he just doesn’t fit our style of play?

That I would agree with.

Surely we should be looking to evolve to fit in Wout?

What we’re currently offering now has been getting us relegated for the past two seasons. A league low 38% possession is abysmal.

Otherwise we may as well have just signed Akinfenwa instead.

There is every chance that a new manager with a new system will result in Weghorst looking a totally different player, and contributing a lot more. I am more than open to that being a possibility. If we stay up we might see that happen, if not he will be gone I’m certain.

Evolving the style will certainly be the goal with whoever the new guy is (again, if we stay up) but the style is what it is currently with the personnel in place. He either conforms to that or looks lost, which is what he frequently does, and that’s all anyone is judging him on at the present moment. Anything outside of that is hypothetical. It remains to be seen if a new system will result in more productivity from him, we can but hope it does.

[TommyPicks]

I think people are also over looking his role in the build up to the chance. His movement was good, held the ball up and passed it nicely into Taylor for the cross, before getting himself back into the box to be in the right position for the chance.

I was desperate for him to score that. He’s put in a lot of effort since coming into the team. His rewards should hopefully come in time.

[dandeclaret]

Lads, he’s miles off in this league. His physical capabilities are nowhere near, and his finishing is rotten. He’s miles less effective than Chris Wood, which probably explains the price differential.

[pushpinpussy]

of course it was a terrible miss. even if the goal keeper had saved that it would still have to be put down as a miss. 8 yards out in front of goal. come on take those claret tinted spectacles off.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I always thought that the 93 in his moniker was the amount of pints he has before coming on here.

Haha not far off sometimes

[Newcastleclaret93]

They’re not excuses. They are facts.

Take 5 mins to look at our team statistics this year.

Lowest possession percentage- 38%
Pass accuracy- 69%
Cross accuracy- 21%
Goals from open play (not set pieces)- 18 (second lowest)
Goals from counter attacks- 1 (joint lowest)

I could go on.

To say Weghorst has been useless, and at the same time completely ignore the circumstances he has come into and how badly we have been playing, is disingenuous and you know it is.

Your completely ignoring the point. I said if things changes and he proves to be a good signing than fair enough. I believe it is a true statement that to date for Burnley he has been useless (highly ineffective however you want to word it).

If we are being honest it’s just poor recruitment he’s never going to fit into our team. Hence why he’s been dropped.

[Spijed]

Lads, he’s miles off in this league. His physical capabilities are nowhere near, and his finishing is rotten. He’s miles less effective than Chris Wood, which probably explains the price differential.

Didn't Wenger used to say it took overseas players at Arsenal a season or so to settle in?

[Newcastleclaret93]

Didn't Wenger used to say it took overseas players at Arsenal a season or so to settle in?

I don’t think he will be here after the summer regardless

[wilks_bfc]

Flip the scenario
Watkins for Wout
Tarky for Mings

We’d all be saying what a fantastic block it was

[AlargeClaret]

Mings had the jump (just) on WW's shot when you play in slow mo,Mings boot is already in place to block as the shot leaves WW's boot. I like the guy but he's becoming (almost) the new Juke.

[Hibsclaret]

He has the same name as his daughter I think. Miss Weghorst.

Great block for me but a confident striker gets there a micro second earlier and it’s a goal. He’s badly suffering from a lack of confidence after teams have worked him out, I feel. When you are then not starting it becomes difficult to shake that. There is definitely a player there if we play to his strengths like against Man U.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

Your completely ignoring the point. I said if things changes and he proves to be a good signing than fair enough. I believe it is a true statement that to date for Burnley he has been useless (highly ineffective however you want to word it).

If we are being honest it’s just poor recruitment he’s never going to fit into our team. Hence why he’s been dropped.

“Useless”

N93 hyperbole again. Just like our midfield, everything’s “useless”. Puts forward ridiculous “replacements” he’s seen on EuroFootyShow yet bitches that we have no money.

Just turn in your username,son.

[dandeclaret]

If this miss was a one off, I’d have loads of sympathy, but it isn’t. He probably continues a reasonable long list of players who score in the German league, but can’t convert it with any sort of similar regularity to the premier league. We need to hope that Jay is fit for Sunday.

[RVclaret]

Flip the scenario
Watkins for Wout
Tarky for Mings

We’d all be saying what a fantastic block it was

Question is does Watkins have that extra second of pace to get there and not give the defender the chance?

[jedi_master]

Question is does Watkins have that extra second of pace to get there and not give the defender the chance?

Bingo - thats the problem in a nutshell.

His lack of pace is his biggest issue, and not one that any change in system to ‘bring out the best in him’ (which is, as I say, purely a hypothetical thesis that there are levels above what he produces) will change.

[Culmclaret]

This is bonkers. It wasn’t a miss it was a great bit of defending. Was Traore’s header a miss?

[claretonthecoast1882]

Your completely ignoring the point. I said if things changes and he proves to be a good signing than fair enough. I believe it is a true statement that to date for Burnley he has been useless (highly ineffective however you want to word it).

If we are being honest it’s just poor recruitment he’s never going to fit into our team. Hence why he’s been dropped.

At least you are consistent. Once you start crying about a player you don't give in do you.

For the forums sake let's hope you get the result you really want on Sunday while viewing in your armchair, it isn't hard to work out what that is

[the_magic_rat]

Couldn’t do much more with that chance for me. It was a fantastic block from Mings.

However, just to put a slightly different slant on things. How many of you would start him against Newcastle over Barnes?

I wouldn't start him over Barnes but I'd give serious thought to starting him over Cornet.

[ashtonlongsider]

Weghorst's a lot like Cornet in that they both started well but have flattered to deceive imo. I think both are lacking in confidence. In many respects it doesn't help playing in a struggling team. The thing I liked about Weghorst last was how disappointed he looked after the final whistle. I'm sure he wants to impress and I sincerely hope he puts it right on Sunday and places himself in Burnley folklore.

[RVclaret]

Having just rewatched the chance / miss, it is 1. incredible defending from Mings, it really is but 2. there's something in me that says WW has to score. Looking at it again, I'd imagine another top striker would see Mings coming and fake shot it by chopping back onto their left before stroking it in.

[DCWat]

Having just rewatched the chance / miss, it is 1. incredible defending from Mings, it really is but 2. there's something in me that says WW has to score. Looking at it again, I'd imagine another top striker would see Mings coming and fake shot it by chopping back onto their left before stroking it in.

I too thought that would have been a better option - it’s of course easy to say that after the event.

Had Weghorst have been on the back of a scoring run and confident, he might have done that. His confidence could well be pretty low at the moment, being dropped to the bench and not scoring.

With hindsight, I can understand him ensuring that he hit the target - at the time I was cursing him!

He’s been pretty poor since a promising start but I still think that there’s a player in there. Coming into a new league, to a side deep in relegation trouble, can’t be easy. I’ll reserve judgement until next season, assuming he’s still with us.

[beeholeclaret]

My initial reaction to this is annoyance at Clarets fans having a go at a player who has been partly responsible for us still being in with a shout of avoiding relegation this weekend. Although his levels have dipped in the last few weeks he is a determined character and in my mind I’m remembering his stirring performance in the 2nd half against Man United that started our recovery when all seemed lost. Further games against Spurs, Everton, Southampton and Wolves saw him battling hard and chasing back to help defend against quality opposition. We don’t make it easy for our forwards here at Burnley so my thoughts are to give him our support rather than some of this negative stuff.

[Colburn_Claret]

Not a miss, Mings tackle was perfection, when only perfection could have stopped a certain goal.
**** happens, move on. There's no need to blame Wout, and getting on his back would be detrimental to his next chance.

[SalisburyClaret]

Tarka makes blocks like that every game.
Not a miss, just class defending against an excellent move

[Lancasterclaret]

Annoying that the only time that Mings looks like a world class defender is when Weghorst has a great chance

[ClaretPete001]

I'm still laughing at the general consensus he was an "upgrade" on someone who scored 1 in 3 in the Premiership over a 4 year period.

That aside I think WW has had a rough time and may well prove to be a good signing. And as others say above he does put a shift in.

The only caveat is he dropped off significantly in his final year at Wolfsburg when they struggled more than previously.

And as we saw with Chris Wood big lads hitting 30 don't get any quicker.

More interestingly quite a few strikers have come into the Premiership from the Bundesliga and struggled. Tino Werner was another 1 in 2 Bundesliga player who has only managed 10 in 56 in the Prem'.

[martin_p]

Question is does Watkins have that extra second of pace to get there and not give the defender the chance?

If he’d had that extra second of pace he’d have got there a second before the ball did. One thing people aren’t mentioning is the pace of the pass from Roberts, he should have pinged it in faster. Weghorst actually has to stand waiting for the ball.

[RVclaret]

I'm still laughing at the general consensus he was an "upgrade" on someone who scored 1 in 3 in the Premiership over a 4 year period.

That aside I think WW has had a rough time and may well prove to be a good signing. And as others say above he does put a shift in.

The only caveat is he dropped off significantly in his final year at Wolfsburg when they struggled more than previously.

And as we saw with Chris Wood big lads hitting 30 don't get any quicker.

More interestingly quite a few strikers have come into the Premiership from the Bundesliga and struggled. Tino Werner was another 1 in 2 Bundesliga player who has only managed 10 in 56 in the Prem'.

He’s probably an upgrade on the Chris Wood of this season in fairness. But that isn’t hard as he was atrocious in almost every single game. WW hasn’t been that bad and has contributed a lot in some key matches. Still believe he will come good!

[ClaretPete001]

He’s probably an upgrade on the Chris Wood of this season in fairness. But that isn’t hard as he was atrocious in almost every single game. WW hasn’t been that bad and has contributed a lot in some key matches. Still believe he will come good!

I suppose the caveat "this season" could be true but factually speaking Wood scored more goals in fewer games this season.

But he will get better...

[TsarBomba]

Your completely ignoring the point. I said if things changes and he proves to be a good signing than fair enough. I believe it is a true statement that to date for Burnley he has been useless (highly ineffective however you want to word it).

If we are being honest it’s just poor recruitment he’s never going to fit into our team. Hence why he’s been dropped.

I’m really not missing the point.

You are happy to judge WW after 6 months, and start labelling him, despite the difficulties of coming into a new league and country, and into a team that is chronically bad at creating chances.

You did exactly the same with Brownhill, and constantly said that Jason Knight would be an upgrade. How has that worked out? Knight will be playing League 1 football at this rate and Brownhill has been linked with West Ham.

Sometimes, a bit of patience wouldn’t go amiss.

[Newcastleclaret93]

At least you are consistent. Once you start crying about a player you don't give in do you.

For the forums sake let's hope you get the result you really want on Sunday while viewing in your armchair, it isn't hard to work out what that is

Wondered when you would be back crying about something.

Il be at the match thanks for your concern.

[Ric_C]

If we go down by 1 point, that miss is going to haunt me over the summer.

As for Weghorst, is overall play is pretty decent, but he can't finish his dinner. It's really cost us him not being able to step up and get 5/6 goals. We'd have been safe by now if Wood hadn't have buggered off.

[NewClaret]

In my view we look a MILES better team with Wout than Ash. That’s nothing against Ash, I just think Wouts hold up play brings others in to the game and makes the ball stick, so taking the pressure off the defence.

On the OP: it wasn’t a miss, it was a first time effort, on target and a great block by Mings.

[Lancasterclaret]

Can we look at Barnes performance last night and see what he did (and didn't do)

Did
- should have been sent off
- nerves of steel with that pen

Didn't
- hold up the ball as a base for us breaking out, so contributing to what seemed at times relentless pressure on us
- create any chances
- be in a position to take any chances

I think Weghorst offers more, especially in a game we have to assume we have to win

[ClaretPete001]

In my view we look a MILES better team with Wout than Ash. That’s nothing against Ash, I just think Wouts hold up play brings others in to the game and makes the ball stick, so taking the pressure off the defence.

On the OP: it wasn’t a miss, it was a first time effort, on target and a great block by Mings.

I think Wout links the play better but as for buying possession in the opponents half I'm not sure that is true.

[martin_p]

Can we look at Barnes performance last night and see what he did (and didn't do)

Did
- should have been sent off
- nerves of steel with that pen

Didn't
- hold up the ball as a base for us breaking out, so contributing to what seemed at times relentless pressure on us
- create any chances
- be in a position to take any chances

I think Weghorst offers more, especially in a game we have to assume we have to win

To be fair he had a couple of chances. In the first half he had a decent shot that was too high and in the second half he swivelled on a ball in the box and his goal bound shot was blocked. And to be even more fair that should be compared with what his strike partner offered which isn’t anything better.

[dandeclaret]

Apart from the occasional nice touch (And it is occasional), he's not done anywhere near enough. People say he puts a shift in, but lumbering about in slow motion 3 or 4 yards away from where the player should be pressing is all a bit James O'Connor ish (well, he was Jimmy one yard, Wout is more 3 yards).

At present, and granted, I've watched the games I've seen on TV / Stream, he's just not in the game. When he is, for golden moments, he doesn't convert them. What did Barnes do, at least looked into the channels to run on to, scored the goal, had a good effort blocked, should have had a 2nd penalty due to his physicality and tenacity leading to a handball. Weghorst wants evertything to feet, but then too often isn't strong enough to hold off the defender, and ends up fouling them, as his complete lack of pace doesn't allow him to get back in front of the defender. Guaranteed if he was called Wilf Webster, and he'd been signed from a championship club, he wouldn't be getting the easy ride he is on here so far.

Wout just isn't there. As I said earlier, hopefully Jay will be fit for Sunday.

[RVclaret]

I suppose the caveat "this season" could be true but factually speaking Wood scored more goals in fewer games this season.

But he will get better...

Wood has also been absolutely s*** for Newcastle too this season. Time will tell whether he’s an ‘upgrade’ but right now you’d say in some areas yes, some areas no. WW also has 3 assists to his name vs Wood’s 0.

[Lancasterclaret]

To be fair he had a couple of chances. In the first half he had a decent shot that was too high and in the second half he swivelled on a ball in the box and his goal bound shot was blocked. And to be even more fair that should be compared with what his strike partner offered which isn’t anything better.

Fair enough, but his main job is to hold up the ball so we retain possession further up the pitch

The Barnes who could do that is long gone

[Lancasterclaret]

Apart from the occasional nice touch (And it is occasional), he's not done anywhere near enough. People say he puts a shift in, but lumbering about in slow motion 3 or 4 yards away from where the player should be pressing is all a bit James O'Connor ish (well, he was Jimmy one yard, Wout is more 3 yards).

At present, and granted, I've watched the games I've seen on TV / Stream, he's just not in the game. When he is, for golden moments, he doesn't convert them. What did Barnes do, at least looked into the channels to run on to, scored the goal, had a good effort blocked, should have had a 2nd penalty due to his physicality and tenacity leading to a handball. Weghorst wants evertything to feet, but then too often isn't strong enough to hold off the defender, and ends up fouling them, as his complete lack of pace doesn't allow him to get back in front of the defender. Guaranteed if he was called Wilf Webster, and he'd been signed from a championship club, he wouldn't be getting the easy ride he is on here so far.

Wout just isn't there. As I said earlier, hopefully Jay will be fit for Sunday.

Pretty clear that Weghorst game isn't running into channels, so criticising him for not doing something he doesn't do is a tad harsh

Jay does, and is faster and a lot better than Barnes, so like you, I hope he's fit for Sunday as it would give us that option

But if he's not fit, and we have to choose between Barnes and Weghorst in a game we have to set out to win, I think I'd start with Weghorst

[martin_p]

Fair enough, but his main job is to hold up the ball so we retain possession further up the pitch

The Barnes who could do that is long gone

Don’t disagree with that, but whether WW offers more than the Barnes that is left is very much open to debate in my opinion.

[Lancasterclaret]

Don’t disagree with that, but whether WW offers more than the Barnes that is left is very much open to debate in my opinion.

If we can play it to his feet, then I think he does

If we are just going to hoof it aimlessly clear then it probably Barnes (on the off chance he can win a foul by doing a "Barnes")

Also as Dan has correctly pointed out, if we are going to play it down the channels, then Barnes at least makes those runs and it used to them

Its a tough one, I might be tempted to start with Barnes to try to tire out the Newcastle defence, then bring on Weghorst

But I am very worried by the Barnes elbow after five minutes. I worry that his desire to be combative might go too far in a game we absolutely cannot afford to go down to ten men

[claretonthecoast1882]

Wondered when you would be back crying about something.

Il be at the match thanks for your concern.

course you will Bobby

[Steve1956]

course you will Bobby

Where have you been I missed you,where ever you where was Ralphcoatescomb in the same cell?