Howe Vs Dyche

[Hipper]

I've seen Everton a couple of times on TV with Dyche in charge. In those games they had energy and determination but no real goal threat. Even McNeil was working hard and spoiling for a fight, literally.

Their remaining games are Leicester (A), Brighton (A), Man City (H), Wolves (A) and Bournemouth (H). There's a possible nine or ten points there so it can be done.

I want Everton to go down, not because of Dyche (he's been and gone but I have a lot of respect for him) but because Everton were one of the original 'Big Five' that pushed for The Premier League and all the greed that goes with it.

[houseboy]

I'd much rather Leeds went down.

I have no animosity to Leeds or Everton (or Sean Dyche) but I want Everton to go down simply for their own good. They have been too long now flirting with relegation and I think a spell in the Championship would do them good (like us). They are potentially a massive club but have been too long in the doldrums. They need a wake up call.

[CnBtruntru]

What is this bizarre obsession certain posters have with getting at Dyche at every opportunity? He transformed us and got us where we are today. He achieved things nobody thought possible
and things we may never see again. Don’t know they’re born some posters

absolutely Spot on and with a fraction of the money Howe has had, wrong comparison, he has taken over Everton with somebody else's team that was shiiite for last couple of seasons and Newcastle only just survived relegation last season, by the skin of there teeth and SD 6 years in the Premier League a foray into Europe, Jesus Christ what did he need to do win the Premier League with a fraction of the money Howe has had.

[warksclaret]

Last night confirmed what we already knew-SD is too loyal, stubborn and tactically too naive for the strongest league in the world. A guy who played 442 over a 10 year period for over 99% of games whilst with us. Repeatedly play players out of form. The defence last night was dreadful, and the CH partnering of Keane/Tarks is a defensive mistake waiting to happen. This at a time when Coady was dropped at an early stage, Mina has not played at all, and Patterson frozen out, as is their pacey wide man Gray. If he persists with Tarks/Keane v Leicester on Monday there is a chance that Barnes/Maddison / Vardy will get the better of them, which might get the fans turn on him. The loyalty extends to Woan & Stone-I rarely saw these guys consulting last night despite the one way traffic of the second half, when Newcastle could well have scored another four

By contrast Howe is emmerging as a real student of the game. The chemistry between him and the players is there to see. He is a master of "man management". Its not all about money-he has developed the likes of Linton, Almeron, Schar, Murphy, Longstaffe into top PL players.Its very much a case of wanting to play for the manager

Big shame because SD was the perfect fit for us for 8 of the 10 years, and he had the ability to get 11 players playing at the top of their game most weeks and competing on the PL stage.Fortunately now VK is showing us how thorough you need to be with formations, tactics, studying the opposition and analising how the team performed in the last game. The end of this season is going to provide some phenomenal entertainment at the bottom of the PL

[Elizabeth]

Why doesn't anyone want Leicester to go down?

I most certainly want to see Leicester relegated to the Championship. Horrible club who have cheated both on and off the field for many years.
Massive game next Monday against Everton with Leicester having home advantage.
A draw may not be good enough for both teams and a defeat will make it extremely difficult to come back from .
The disrespect for Dyche by a small minority of posters is best ignored.

[Tribesmen]

Just want Leeds to go down as for anyone else not too worried really .

[Shaggy]

Some people call it disrespect others call it how it actually is.

It would appear those that feel Dyche is being disrespected are the minority.

Didn’t take Everton fans long to see through him. And that’s after coming from Lampard.

I’m also not overly fussed about Howe, thought he was very poor with us. However he has went away and evolved as a manager, doesn’t come out with the sheer arrogance which Dyche exudes and has more than 3 lines of dialogue.

I’m just glad neither are manager of Burnley as we have a proper rolls Royce man in charge just now with an attraction to potential players that he other 2 don’t have especially Dyche.

[aggi]

Is there a team we repeatedly beat so heavily under Dyche than Howe's Bournemouth? We put 3 or 4 past them a few times from what I remember which wasn't that common an occurrence.

[jrgbfc]

absolutely Spot on and with a fraction of the money Howe has had, wrong comparison, he has taken over Everton with somebody else's team that was shiiite for last couple of seasons and Newcastle only just survived relegation last season, by the skin of there teeth and SD 6 years in the Premier League a foray into Europe, Jesus Christ what did he need to do win the Premier League with a fraction of the money Howe has had.

Not a chance Dyche would have Newcastle pushing for the top 3. I don't see him lasting long at Everton either.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Not a chance Dyche would have Newcastle pushing for the top 3. I don't see him lasting long at Everton either.

Got us to 7th on a fraction of Newcastle's budget, but whatever you want to think

[warksclaret]

Got us to 7th on a fraction of Newcastle's budget, but whatever you want to think

Yes a phenomenal achievement considering all the facts, but a good manager will succeed with different clubs, and he took his time to ensure his new team would be a good fit. Sheffield United finishing 9th in the PL under Wilder in 2019, with little spend almost matches this, but I think we agree Wilder is not a good manager following his showing at Boro, (look at what Carrick has achieved with the same team) and of course Watford who slumped to mid table. If Everton go down SD's worth will be badly dented, and prove a risk for any PL side. He would do better to team up with a new coaching team more in tune with the modern game than Woan & Stone

[spt_claret]

By contrast Howe is emmerging as a real student of the game. The chemistry between him and the players is there to see. He is a master of "man management". Its not all about money-he has developed the likes of Linton, Almeron, Schar, Murphy, Longstaffe into top PL players.Its very much a case of wanting to play for the manager

You're completely right Howe is the better man manager by far.
Even though he told Treacy to just give up and walk from his contract 6 months in, while Dyche put an arm round him and by Treacys own admission was the only one who cared, added 2.5 years to his career and still talks to him.
Even though Steven Defour, who was a Belgian international when they were world #1, has called Dyche one of the best managers he's ever worked under and speaks very highly of his man management.
Even though Joey Barton, the bad boy of football, was impeccably behaved under Dyche and sings his praise, when he was trouble everywhere else.
Even though Dwight McNeil has publicly rubbished the rumours that they fell out, pointing out Dyche was the one who brought him through.
Even though Kieran Trippier has such admiration for Dyche he facetimed him from the pitch when Atletico won La Liga.
Even though under Dyche, Ben Mee developed from Championship LB under Howe, to a Premier League captain defender. Keane went from a prospect to England international. Tarkowski went from Brentford youngster to England international. Ings went from championship prospect to Liverpool and England. Pope and Heaton went from relegated championship keepers to England internationals. Cork got an England cap. For the first time we were selling youth players to championship clubs (Benson, Dunne) because while they'd developed, we'd developed faster.
Andre Gray and Chris Wood only ever looked like Premier League strikers under Dyche.
The only player he's known to have fallen out with was Bamford, by all accounts over him being too big for his boots and having a silver spoon mentality.
Maybe Howe can manage entitled players better, big ego players. Who knows. But Dyches man management is his greatest strength that almost everyone who's played under him cites.
I'll grant that he's tactically rigid and overly loyal. Absolutely a problem. He's far from a perfect manager,but there is no perfect manager. Doesn't mean he's not a good one.
But even the ego thing- he's held up his hands and said we didn't win enough games at the end. He thinks it could have turned around because of course he does, anyone who goes "nah I was screwed and hopeless" is never going to succeed in competitive sport because they haven't got the self belief. He's blamed the lack of investment in prior years due to the nature of the club sale- which was never a controversial opinion until people started criticising the new owners and for some reason blaming lack of investment on the leveraged takeover then was unfair, even if you're blaming Garlick for his part in it too. And the podcasts- if you don't wanna listen him you don't have to, but there's people who do. Mate of mines a Leicester fan, loves Dyche, tunes into him on things, would love him at Leicester. Same with a Watford mate. A Boro mate doesn't like him but that's because of the beef a few years back. Nobody is making anybody listen to those podcasts, and the people griping about him doing them, having an ego or not learning from others clearly don't even listen as he's owning up to problems leading to his sacking, and talks about management strategies he's learned from other sports.

Yes he's often overly wedded to 442, occasionally 4411/451 but very often 442. Yes he's hesitant with subs. Yes he's been over loyal or reluctant to change lineups even if a change worked- I think of nicking a draw at Chelsea last season by switching to 433 with Jay/Vydra/Cornet, nearly winning it, then never trying it again.
But there's absolutely unfair and frankly strange criticism being levelled at him these days- and more from Burnley fans than outsiders. It's like there's this need to denigrate and downplay the accomplishments made in the past ten years and I can't see why. Even the OP- Newcastle put 5 past Spurs in half an hour recently. Is that football winning and proof Spurs are an even more antiquated dinosaur team? Or is it proof of what we've always said as Burnley fans and will absolutely, justifiably, say if Newcastle beat us next year- that rich clubs can buy success.
There's more bitterness to Dyche than to Coyle and I'll never understand it.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Yes a phenomenal achievement considering all the facts, but a good manager will succeed with different clubs, and he took his time to ensure his new team would be a good fit. Sheffield United finishing 9th in the PL under Wilder in 2019, with little spend almost matches this, but I think we agree Wilder is not a good manager following his showing at Boro, (look at what Carrick has achieved with the same team) and of course Watford who slumped to mid table. If Everton go down SD's worth will be badly dented, and prove a risk for any PL side. He would do better to team up with a new coaching team more in tune with the modern game than Woan & Stone

He took over at the end of the transfer window, the club sold his only remaining fit striker, left him with a injured DCL.

He gave them a fighting chance initially, but their run in has been tough and if they do go down, it isn't going to dent his rep, anyone with any ounce of knowledge can see the issues at Everton aren't his fault and a huge amount of work is needed to fix the squad.

I get that some of you can't stand the bloke, but to hammer him so much is just downright bizarre.

Get over whatever your perceived injustices are about him

[Papabendi]

Didn’t Isaac beat Michael Keane about three times for one of the goals?

[arise_sir_charge]

The fascinating thing about these threads is that for everyone who has a pop at Dyche there are people that will steadfast defend him and vice versa.

Like most things the truth is usually somewhere in the middle but this Baird only ever seems to deal in extremes.

[Shaggy]

The reason Dyche gets it tight is his sheer arrogance and pig headedness, thinks he’s an elite manager when Infact he’s a poor man’s Pulis/Allardyce/Megson.

The worst football iv witnessed at Burnley has come under Dyches watch and he refused to change things because he knows better… like i say everyone else is seeing through him now was only ever a matter of time.

What I don’t get is the absolute Emotional love in some have for this man, the hint at any criticism provokes an angry backlash which is almost as humorous as witnessing the horse fiddlers go bat **** mental at out title victory the other evening.

Cheer up. Dyche will be yesterdays man in a year or 2s time with a Wigan or someone equally crap.

[quoonbeatz]

They're both very good managers. You lot are like those Messi/RonaldoGOAT spods on twitter.

[CoolClaret]

Agreed with a lot of that but a lot of things listed, for example about Howe with Treacey is that it was literally 10 years ago - a lot can change in that time, Howe was young and has clearly learned since then…. And a lot of that with Dyche was also 4-10 seasons ago which is a long time in football.

The reference to the podcast stuff is that it was Dyche putting out the ‘brand Dyche’ image - how he’s so nonsense and footy is the same as ever bla bla bla, proper gutter tier stuff going on Keys & Gray.

I recall some of his answers to questions about has he been watching football etc ‘nope, not even thought about football, just been spending time with friends/family’, which is great for a bit but was also a perfect opportunity to undertake more time to learn more about the game?

As for the ‘he’s admitted to not winning enough games showing he isn’t arrogant’ - I think that’s ******** tbh… an attempt to come across as humble - it’s not like he reflected on why we didn’t win enough games, ‘well we didn’t win enough because I had a technical striker in Wout and after beating Brighton 3-0 away through forced changes playing the ball on the deck the next week I put Westwood back in and started playing channel balls for a striker that isn’t particularly quick or good at winning aeriel duels… did this until I was ultimately sacked’

He was brilliant for us Dyche but I really do think he feels like he’s better than what he is and that his success with us has properly gotten to his head.

I’m adamant he should bin Woan and Co off, or at least a few of them and really spend some time working on his craft again, not necessarily thinking that he’s the finished article.

[jlup1980]

I think it's hilarious and incredibly disrespectful of anyone to suggest that SD is failing at Everton. They can't score for toffee and there's a damn good reason for that. It's not the tactics, it's the players. They couldn't score under Lampard either!

People need to remember they barely stayed up last season when they had Richarlison, Gordon, DCL and Gray to choose from; two of those have left and DCL has turned into a sicknote leaving Gray, Maupay and Simms as their only options. SD has somehow managed to end up in a job where he has even less options than he had in his first PL season with us (Ings, Vokes, Barnes, Juke, Sordell).

Look at their goalscorers since he took over. McNeil is top scorer, which is ridiculous in itself, Doucoure has a couple and Keane, Tarky & Coleman all have a goal. Gray, Maupay and Simms have contributed two goals between them and one of those was a penalty. Simms is the only striker to score from open play since he got the job - that's 13 games! I know we were hardly free flowing but I can't recall Wood, Ings, Gray, Vokes, Barnes or anyone going 13 games without scoring from open play (apart from Juke obviously but he doesn't count haha!).

Everton are just a very poor team.

[spt_claret]

The reason Dyche gets it tight is his sheer arrogance and pig headedness, thinks he’s an elite manager when Infact he’s a poor man’s Pulis/Allardyce/Megson.

The worst football iv witnessed at Burnley has come under Dyches watch and he refused to change things because he knows better… like i say everyone else is seeing through him now was only ever a matter of time.

Again where's he been arrogant? The podcasts you refuse to listen to he admits to not getting good enough results in the last season and having problems the year before. Is it the fact he's going on the podcasts? You realise they invite their guests on right?

If he's the worst football you've seen you honestly must have started watching under Howe at the earliest.
Laws in the Prem was worse, was comparable in the Championship to Dyches worst in the Prem.
Cotterill went a record winless run, and that wasn't even what got him sacked.
For as much as I loved Ternent, there were times under him we just capitulated and looked like we'd never played a game before. 2-7 and 4-7 at home, 5-6 away to bloody Grimsby.
Whereas under Dyche we bossed the Championship in both full seasons, won it comfortably the second time, and made Europe playing a ruthlessly efficient system that tons of teams had no way around. We were 3rd until something like November. The last two years were poor but even then I cannot see how you can genuinely believe Dyche was the worst you've seen unless he's also the first you've seen.

[spt_claret]

Agreed with a lot of that but a lot of things listed, for example about Howe with Treacey is that it was literally 10 years ago - a lot can change in that time, Howe was young and has clearly learned since then…. And a lot of that with Dyche was also 4-10 seasons ago which is a long time in football.

The reference to the podcast stuff is that it was Dyche putting out the ‘brand Dyche’ image - how he’s so nonsense and footy is the same as ever bla bla bla, proper gutter tier stuff going on Keys & Gray.

I recall some of his answers to questions about has he been watching football etc ‘nope, not even thought about football, just been spending time with friends/family’, which is great for a bit but was also a perfect opportunity to undertake more time to learn more about the game?

As for the ‘he’s admitted to not winning enough games showing he isn’t arrogant’ - I think that’s ******** tbh… an attempt to come across as humble - it’s not like he reflected on why we didn’t win enough games, ‘well we didn’t win enough because I had a technical striker in Wout and after beating Brighton 3-0 away through forced changes playing the ball on the deck the next week I put Westwood back in and started playing channel balls for a striker that isn’t particularly quick or good at winning aeriel duels… did this until I was ultimately sacked’

He was brilliant for us Dyche but I really do think he feels like he’s better than what he is and that his success with us has properly gotten to his head.

I’m adamant he should bin Woan and Co off, or at least a few of them and really spend some time working on his craft again, not necessarily thinking that he’s the finished article.

I don't think he's the finished article or flawless and I agree he could probably do with changing some of his coaching team. But I also don't get the sense of inflated ego you're getting - fair points as to why you interpret it that way, I dont, but that's opinions. I don't think he thinks he's the finished article either but I do think his stubbornness or loyalty probably extends to his coaching team and hampers his development rate.
But this is the other thing I've noticed (not from you here but others). People can offer couched opinions and others read it and only hear one extreme. Even when he was here, even though I disagreed with his sacking, I was never saying he's flawless or beyond criticism - but by coming down on a positive opinion overall I had people labelling me a mindless Dyche fanboy. Just like you're making balanced criticisms of him, I don't agree with all but you're not being hyperbolic or onesided.
But I've not seen nearly as many "Dyche can do no wrong" types as the ones who rewrite history and ignore any positives to justify their hatred. Or one poster who brings him up in unrelated topics just to slate him, like he's had his missus or something.

[CoolClaret]

I think it's hilarious and incredibly disrespectful of anyone to suggest that SD is failing at Everton. They can't score for toffee and there's a damn good reason for that. It's not the tactics, it's the players. They couldn't score under Lampard either!

People need to remember they barely stayed up last season when they had Richarlison, Gordon, DCL and Gray to choose from; two of those have left and DCL has turned into a sicknote leaving Gray, Maupay and Simms as their only options. SD has somehow managed to end up in a job where he has even less options than he had in his first PL season with us (Ings, Vokes, Barnes, Juke, Sordell).

Look at their goalscorers since he took over. McNeil is top scorer, which is ridiculous in itself, Doucoure has a couple and Keane, Tarky & Coleman all have a goal. Gray, Maupay and Simms have contributed two goals between them and one of those was a penalty. Simms is the only striker to score from open play since he got the job - that's 13 games! I know we were hardly free flowing but I can't recall Wood, Ings, Gray, Vokes, Barnes or anyone going 13 games without scoring from open play (apart from Juke obviously but he doesn't count haha!).

Everton are just a very poor team.

They are but he does make weird decisions then stick with them

Absolutely shipping goals for fun now after looking solid defensively when he first came in - I appreciate that Coleman is injured why play a centre half at right back, or leave Keane in after dropping Coady and all of a sudden the goals have started shipping in?

[CoolClaret]

But I've not seen nearly as many "Dyche can do no wrong" types as the ones who rewrite history and ignore any positives to justify their hatred. Or one poster who brings him up in unrelated topics just to slate him, like he's had his missus or something.

I agree with this - overlooking what he did for the club is quite astounding tbh.

When Howe left we had every chance of reverting to being a mid - low end Champ club but obviously we ascended new heights with some brilliant memories and a fantastic training ground. I'll always be grateful for Dyche I just really think he needs to lose some ego and sort of 'start again'

[LeadBelly]

I think it's hilarious and incredibly disrespectful of anyone to suggest that SD is failing at Everton. They can't score for toffee and there's a damn good reason for that. It's not the tactics, it's the players. They couldn't score under Lampard either!

People need to remember they barely stayed up last season when they had Richarlison, Gordon, DCL and Gray to choose from; two of those have left and DCL has turned into a sicknote leaving Gray, Maupay and Simms as their only options. SD has somehow managed to end up in a job where he has even less options than he had in his first PL season with us (Ings, Vokes, Barnes, Juke, Sordell).

Look at their goalscorers since he took over. McNeil is top scorer, which is ridiculous in itself, Doucoure has a couple and Keane, Tarky & Coleman all have a goal. Gray, Maupay and Simms have contributed two goals between them and one of those was a penalty. Simms is the only striker to score from open play since he got the job - that's 13 games! I know we were hardly free flowing but I can't recall Wood, Ings, Gray, Vokes, Barnes or anyone going 13 games without scoring from open play (apart from Juke obviously but he doesn't count haha!).

Everton are just a very poor team.

100% agree. They scraped through last year because Richarlson hit a purple patch just in time. He's now gone (and so has his purple patch), Gordon now also gone and SD inherited pretty much a shambles from Lampard. If he keeps them up, he's produced a miracle for which they should be eternally grateful to him for (but probably wont/wouldn't be).
Looking at results, I make it he's got 13 points from 13 games which would mean a clear improvement on the 15 points from 20 games before that. I'd guess that any team down there averaging a point a game for this season and hitting 38 would survive.

[SouthLondonexile]

Here’s my two penny worth. Dyche benefitted from Howe’s legacy, then he only spent £460,000 on getting his first promotion to the Premier League.
Everton is a toxic football club, for players and managers.
I wish SD every success but he has a tough task. I would not wish to have his achievements in football overshadowed by a disaster at Everton.

[warksclaret]

Whichever side of the fence you sit on-Dyche and Burnley were a perfect fit, and Dyche excelled in getting free transfers and bargains to craft us into a team that could get promoted twice, and then survive 6 years in the PL. He also had the support of the Chairman who did not fire him when we got relegated circa 2015-a lot of clubs fire managers upon relegation. The problem for SD is finding the next "perfect fit" and doing so in the PL.

[Stayingup]

Not a chance Dyche would have Newcastle pushing for the top 3. I don't see him lasting long at Everton either.

Really? There is no basis for any comparison with what Dyche might achieve at Newcastle and what Howe might achieve at Everton. Dyche went in there mid season, the club in turmoil and a poor squad with dud strikers. I dont believe we should have been relegated last season. We were very unlucky in a few ways. For example Collins sticking his hand up for that penalty, who I think we would have beaten. Leeds winning at Brentford etc., That's not knock what Howe has done at the worlds richest club!!!

[equinox]

Eeeek

https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/thre ... ut.117455/

[Walkerpool]

I like Dyche but I never want that style of football again to be honest no matter hiw successful it was.

[Spijed]

I like Dyche but I never want that style of football again to be honest no matter hiw successful it was.

It's amazing how quickly Palace fans were happy to ensure survival in the Prem by getting rid of Vieira and re-appointing Roy Hodgson though.
Any danger of relegation and principles quickly change.

[warksclaret]

Just been on another Toffees fans forum, and whilst there is sympathy for SD in having lost Gordon in the transfer window, and having a shortage of striker options, a real disbelief in his style of play. These include getting the team to run into the ground for the first 60 minutes then being exposed,compounded by leaving subs to the last 10 or so minutes, not allowing full backs to go past the half way, playing a CB at RB, and persisting with the pairing of Keane/Tarkowski when both have been poor for the past 3 or 4 games, when you have a recent England squad player on the bench and never play him, and playing Maupey who has been useless

Do we detect a common theme ??

[Stayingup]

Dyche isn’t keeping that lot up, he doesn’t have the tactical nous. He plays the same way every time like he did with us.

Everyone without an emotional attachment to him can see that.

I mean seamus Coleman injured so he plays a centre back at right back instead of a proper right back like Paterson who is a young dynamic player. Has no trust in young players at all. He’s a complete dinosaur who can’t adapt to the modern game.

His next job will be a lower half championship outfit.

Still playing the total pr!ck. I recall you saying Dyche qoukd never get another job. Eating humble pie are we nobber?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Eeeek

https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/thre ... ut.117455/

Similar to this place, some realists and some extremists.

Everton fans don't really know much about Dyche in the championship, nor the season we finished 7th, but that's because they've been in the top flight so long they've become entitled

[Shaggy]

Still playing the total pr!ck. I recall you saying Dyche qoukd never get another job. Eating humble pie are we nobber?

Only one person looking like a knob here sir. It’s actually funny how triggered you are.

Go on then enlighten me when did I ever say he would never get another job?

Accept it your man’s a busted flush. Last 3 years he must have one of the worst records in the premier league as a manager.

[Targetman]

Only one person looking like a knob here sir. It’s actually funny how triggered you are.

Go on then enlighten me when did I ever say he would never get another job?

Accept it your man’s a busted flush. Last 3 years he must have one of the worst records in the premier league as a manager.

Its a little strange how you conveniently brush under the carpet the brilliant times the club had under Sean Dyche?

Why do you make yourself look so daft, are you just looking for the attention?

[Jakubclaret]

Similar to this place, some realists and some extremists.

Everton fans don't really know much about Dyche in the championship, nor the season we finished 7th, but that's because they've been in the top flight so long they've become entitled

It's difficult to use that forum as a barometer I think there's plenty of kopites on there masquerading as toffees stirring the pot & going against Everton's interests in a sinister form.

[IanMcL]

Money always the victor.

Not always. Usually.
Everton have spent very unwisely.

[Jakubclaret]

Not always. Usually.
Everton have spent very unwisely.

Agree I did amend my post in a later post when the other poster countered in response, I also missed Richarlsons departure as well when I was defending dyche & also thinking later about things I think if Andros townsend was fit he could have chipped in with a odd goal he did well when initially joining Everton before getting injured. Dyche has been dealt a bum deck of cards whichever way you logically look at things.

[boatshed bill]

Agree I did amend my post in a later post when the other poster countered in response, I also missed Richarlsons departure as well when I was defending dyche & also thinking later about things I think if Andros townsend was fit he could have chipped in with a odd goal he did well when initially joining Everton before getting injured. Dyche has been dealt a bum deck of cards whichever way you logically look at things.

The deck of cards, as you call it, is exactly what Dyche accepted.
I'm sure he knew what he was getting into.
I think they'll stay up.

[Jakubclaret]

The deck of cards, as you call it, is exactly what Dyche accepted.
I'm sure he knew what he was getting into.
I think they'll stay up.

He did accept that I'm not disputing that, the debate in question is howe Vs dyche & to fully explore both in equal terms dyche deserves merit because the situations inherited are completely different, Howe walked into something pretty much setup for success not taking away the job he's done there, dyche walked into something completely different by his own choice. Both are grown men the debate isn't about conscientious decisions.

[Bin Ont Turf]

They're both very good managers. You lot are like those Messi/RonaldoGOAT spods on twitter.

They are, but when at Burnley there's absolutely no comparison or contest.

Seany long time

[Shaggy]

Howe premier league win % 34.5
Dyche premier league win % 27.6

Dyche managed 26 more games in the premier league than Howe.

Howes better.

[boatshed bill]

He did accept that I'm not disputing that, the debate in question is howe Vs dyche & to fully explore both in equal terms dyche deserves merit because the situations inherited are completely different, Howe walked into something pretty much setup for success not taking away the job he's done there, dyche walked into something completely different by his own choice. Both are grown men the debate isn't about conscientious decisions.

I thought the initial debate was about who of the two was better... silly me

[Rick_Muller]

Howe premier league win % 34.5
Dyche premier league win % 27.6

Dyche managed 26 more games in the premier league than Howe.

Howes better.

Can you adjust the figures for the financial aspect… I.e. without Newcastle’s results

[Bosscat]

Howe fits in at Newcastle because of their chant ....

Howe way the lads ...

[Jakubclaret]

I thought the initial debate was about who of the two was better... silly me

It clearly isn't that simple, carry on being silly it's a job you are familiar with & go beyond all expectations.

[Shaggy]

Can you adjust the figures for the financial aspect… I.e. without Newcastle’s results

Even Newcastles results from last season or just this season where they have been doing well?

Do you want the win % when the only tactical nous of his tenure was with him ( Tony Loughlan )?

[IanMcL]

Agree I did amend my post in a later post when the other poster countered in response, I also missed Richarlsons departure as well when I was defending dyche & also thinking later about things I think if Andros townsend was fit he could have chipped in with a odd goal he did well when initially joining Everton before getting injured. Dyche has been dealt a bum deck of cards whichever way you logically look at things.

Agreed. He did take the job though. They will get Bielsa next season and continue their calamity.

[Darnhill Claret]

The big difference to where they were by comparison is that Howe had a January transfer window. They were appointed in similar circumstances.

[Rick_Muller]

Even Newcastles results from last season or just this season where they have been doing well?

Do you want the win % when the only tactical nous of his tenure was with him ( Tony Loughlan )?

Not sure I actually care that much to be honest. We’re not going to get a fair comparison between them whichever way it gets sliced up. Both managers have their own merits and both contributed to our recent success, but you still can’t fairly compare them at all really