Head of Academy Role

[ClaretTony]

I take your point about casting the net wider but these 'superpower' clubs, as Dyche used to call them, have more than enough ways of avoiding fees if they want to, not least the multi-club operations most of the top clubs operate.

99% of the time, if they want the player, they get the player!

There are set fees they must pay for kids and if you have a higher academy you get more for them. I do take your point that they get if they want.

[Clive 1960]

I remember a certain manager without naming giving a local lad a brand new pair of boots etc to stay at the time with the under 11 than move to Rovers but at the time Rovers won and took a couple more who went on and played not for Rovers though.

[Clive 1960]

I really hope things have moved on since then .

[Blondeclaret]

Big difference is that higher level academies can poach players from lower level academies for low fees. Also some differences in how far you are allowed to cast your net.

Another difference is staffing levels, each member of staff can only have 1 title snd only do one job whereas Cat2 and below members of staff can be responsible for several jobs.
Under EPPP requirements every post has to be filled with a person with the correct qualifications to do that job. Therefore the staffing levels are much higher and of course the wage bill. Our previous audit showed staffing levels were down.

[ClaretTony]

Another vacancy now coming up in the academy - the head of coaching Ian Jones is leaving.

https://trainingground.guru/articles/bu ... join-pgaac

[FeedTheArf]

Another vacancy now coming up in the academy - the head of coaching Ian Jones is leaving.

https://trainingground.guru/articles/bu ... join-pgaac

Looks like a new broom approach, or certainly gives us an opportunity to think differently with two key roles now available. I wonder if we will see staff with links to Man City start to come through given the links with Kompany.

[Blondeclaret]

There are set fees they must pay for kids and if you have a higher academy you get more for them. I do take your point that they get if they want.

Another important position that needs to be filled with the right person. A coach to oversee and coach the coaches in the academy.

[ClaretTony]

Another important position that needs to be filled with the right person. A coach to oversee and coach the coaches in the academy.

Always considered the key role in the academy. I got on well with Ian, probably my last real contact in there, but he was the one I believe who ensured no injury info got out about the players.

Talking about contacts, I bumped into Pat McKiernan at weekend - top, top man apart from being a Spurs fan.

[Big Vinny K]

Always considered the key role in the academy. I got on well with Ian, probably my last real contact in there, but he was the one I believe who ensured no injury info got out about the players.

Talking about contacts, I bumped into Pat McKiernan at weekend - top, top man apart from being a Spurs fan.

He’s always been a Spurs fan but loves Burnley too.
His main love sport wise though is rugby.
When Pat came to St Teds he was the first one really to set up rugby teams and arrange matches. Our year ended up having a couple of players who played for Lancashire - unheard of really as we were always a football school.

I always played football for Teds but he even encouraged the football lads to give rugby a go. He once asked me and one of the other lads in the football team to play in a rugby match because he said we were both too quick to get caught and we could play on the wings. We refused as we knew that it didn’t matter how quick we were that it was only a matter of time before we would get hit !!

Pat was a top man like you say. When St Teds was finishing and merging into Blessed Trinity me and Pat arranged a football match of ex pupils versus the existing staff. I ended up writing a programme for the game and the ex pupils won 4-1. Pat was great and laid on food and beer after the game.

[ClaretTony]

I didn’t know of Pat until he came to the Turf to work in the youth department but I got on with him so well from the first time I met him.

[Big Vinny K]

He was a fantastic bloke and a really great teacher. He also taught at St Hilda’s for a while. Hard to find anyone who was taught by him or worked with Pat who didn’t like him.

[Chester Perry]

Looks like a new broom approach, or certainly gives us an opportunity to think differently with two key roles now available. I wonder if we will see staff with links to Man City start to come through given the links with Kompany.

Does it? also do you find it interesting as where Ian Jones is moving too?

Have we given control of the Academy over to the manager as well, as chunks (if not all) the data analysis, transfer identification and at least some aspects of player care and liaison? - it is entirely possible that we have some players residing in his properties in Manchester - or even those he has partnered with

One of the interesting things about Velocity Sports Ltd (Jersey) that I recently uncovered is that of the 4 share types introduced those called 'Incentive Shares' can be awarded to suppliers of services - they only work if dividends or profits are divided amongst VLS shareholders, and must be returned f.o.c. when the service term comes to an end or is terminated. You have to wonder, given the possible handover of significant control of the football operation to Kompany and potentially his business interests if they have been awarded incentive shares - as was stated in the new 'up the beehole end' podcast the negotiations on his new deal were likely pretty one sided and it is likely he was given everything he asked for and possibly more.

Of course this is speculation on my part - it will be interesting to see exactly what is revealed in the Sky documentary and the 2023 accounts about how far Burnley FC and ALK/VSL has/has not ceded to Vincent Kompany's businesses - if it is true, then we must acknowledge the huge contribution that they have made so far.

[Chester Perry]

He was a fantastic bloke and a really great teacher. He also taught at St Hilda’s for a while. Hard to find anyone who was taught by him or worked with Pat who didn’t like him.

apart from not including was/is a fantastic bloke - that is spot on

[Big Vinny K]

apart from not including was/is a fantastic bloke - that is spot on

Yep apologies - I’m talking like he’s not here anymore !

[ClaretTony]

Yep apologies - I’m talking like he’s not here anymore !

He was definitely here on Saturday

It was like the old Two Ronnies sketch too - Pat at 6ft and a bit, with me and Brian Flynn.

[FeedTheArf]

Always considered the key role in the academy. I got on well with Ian, probably my last real contact in there, but he was the one I believe who ensured no injury info got out about the players.

Talking about contacts, I bumped into Pat McKiernan at weekend - top, top man apart from being a Spurs fan.

As an ex-Teds pupil, Mr Mac was an absolute legend. He was the only guy who could stand in the corner of a yard at dinner, shout 'YOU BOY!!!' and 200-300 kids all turn around in unison to see if it was them!

[FeedTheArf]

Does it? also do you find it interesting as where Ian Jones is moving too?

Not interesting as such. He might just be looking for a less demanding, flexible role. I'd expect Jonathan Pepper has probably put a good word in for him.

[ClaretTony]

Not interesting as such. He might just be looking for a less demanding, flexible role. I'd expect Jonathan Pepper has probably put a good word in for him.

Why would you expect Jon Pepper has put a good word in for him?

[FeedTheArf]

Why would you expect Jon Pepper has put a good word in for him?

Wasn't that where Pepper had come from previously and then worked together for a period of time together at Burnley?

[ClaretTony]

Wasn't that where Pepper had come from previously and then worked together for a period of time together at Burnley?

The company Jones is going to was only set up just before the pandemic. Pepper came from a company called Double Pass.

[aggi]

Not interesting as such. He might just be looking for a less demanding, flexible role. I'd expect Jonathan Pepper has probably put a good word in for him.

It used to be that academy inspections were done by an external company (who Pepper worked for). A few years ago the Premier League, EFL and The FA set up their own body (PGAAC) to bring the audits in-house which is where Ian Jones is going.

[FeedTheArf]

The company Jones is going to was only set up just before the pandemic. Pepper came from a company called Double Pass.

Ahhh right, my mistake!

Naively assumed it was the same place given the purpose of the two companies

[DCWat]

He was definitely here on Saturday

It was like the old Two Ronnies sketch too - Pat at 6ft and a bit, with me and Brian Flynn.

Won’t be often Brian Flynn looks down on someone, Tony

[ClaretTony]

Wasn’t it Brentford who just got rid of their academy? I think they’re in the process of reinstating one due to PL rules but yeah, there’s different schools of thought.

Brentford didn't have one but had to introduce a Cat 4 academy to fulfil criteria. Things have changed at Brentford now though and they are looking to move forward with their target to become a Cat 1 academy

[randomclaret2]

Brentford didn't have one but had to introduce a Cat 4 academy to fulfil criteria. Things have changed at Brentford now though and they are looking to move forward with their target to become a Cat 1 academy

Tony, do you know if any other of this coming season's Premier League teams, aside from Brentford, ourselves and perhaps Sheff.Utd. , will not have a Cat 1 academy ?

[ClaretTony]

Tony, do you know if any other of this coming season's Premier League teams, aside from Brentford, ourselves and perhaps Sheff.Utd. , will not have a Cat 1 academy ?

Neither Coventry or Luton do so there's one there and Bournemouth are currently Cat 3 but I believe have applied for Cat 2. So it will be Bournemouth, Brentford and the three promoted clubs.

[randomclaret2]

Neither Coventry or Luton do so there's one there and Bournemouth are currently Cat 3 but I believe have applied for Cat 2. So it will be Bournemouth, Brentford and the three promoted clubs.

Cheers Tony

[ClaretTony]

Cheers Tony

Just had a look at the current Cat 1 academies of which there are 25.

It includes 18 Premier League clubs (not Bournemouth & Brentford)
Five in the Championship - Blackburn, Middlesbrough, Norwich, Stoke, West Brom
Two in League One - Derby, Sunderland

I think I read that Reading, who lost Cat 1 for this season, are reapplying.

[aggi]

Lots of talk about rejigging the Premier League 2 (the leagues that the cat 1 academy teams play in). There are currently two divisions with promotion and relegation between them. Proposal is to just have one division, get rid of relegation (so teams focus more on development and less on promotion/relegation) and use some slightly convoluted method to sort the fixtures.
https://trainingground.guru/articles/pr ... -under-21s

[burnmark]

Position filled it seems by David Longwell who I presume is the person referred to in this link….

https://www.shropshirestar.com/sport/fo ... -the-club/

[ClaretTony]

Position filled it seems by David Longwell who I presume is the person referred to in this link….

https://www.shropshirestar.com/sport/fo ... -the-club/

Strange one. I was given his Name weeks ago and have been constantly checking to see if he had left Shrewsbury but he’s now listed by them as a first team coach.

[Blondeclaret]

Strange one. I was given his Name weeks ago and have been constantly checking to see if he had left Shrewsbury but he’s now listed by them as a first team coach.

I believe he had to work his notice before he could leave Shrewsbury.

[Blondeclaret]

Several more positions to be filled in the academy yet which are essential if we would ever wish to return to Cat1. Doesn’t look like the club are seriously considering this with the present set up of people having joint roles.

[ClaretTony]

Several more positions to be filled in the academy yet which are essential if we would ever wish to return to Cat1. Doesn’t look like the club are seriously considering this with the present set up of people having joint roles.

It’s a real shame having worked so hard to get there.

[ClaretTony]

David Longwell has just been confirmed - Paul Jenkins becomes the Director of Football Development